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E3′s Dirty Little Secret

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    deathrider wrote: »
    So, this whole "consoles are holding gaming back" situation- What would happen if they weren't? If the new gen was chucked onto selves today in complete working order, and no fear of it fecking up, so that they were no longer holding gaming back... What would be the big difference then? What would we get? Anything other than simply better graphics?

    Theoretically everything could be better. Bigger/More detailed game "worlds" would be the obvious one. The biggest problem i see with current generation is that most developers have already been maxing out what they can do on them for at least a few years, so really... we don't know exactly how much better games could be if they weren't limited by the 6 year old hardware. There are some PC only games but its not really a fair reflection of what would be possible since most AAA studios are Multi platform or console based, with the exception of maybe blizzard and a few of the MMO game developers.

    It will be nice to see what developers can do when they have a bit more power to work with when they do release the next gen consoles.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    deathrider wrote: »
    So, this whole "consoles are holding gaming back" situation- What would happen if they weren't? If the new gen was chucked onto selves today in complete working order, and no fear of it fecking up, so that they were no longer holding gaming back... What would be the big difference then? What would we get? Anything other than simply better graphics?
    Unless the tools used to make games develop at the same pace then we'd be likely to see less AAA games being released, less new/risky IP and far more asset reuse across the board.

    To be honest, I think consoles are a necessary evil in some respects, they offer a snapshot of hardware (or general performance if you will) at a specific time and give devs a target to hit for a few years while also allowing time to squeeze every bit of performance out of them. If you want to consider the state of the industry if these barriers were removed then you'd also need to factor in the loss of potential customers which would accompany the loss of the console market. Personally I shudder to think what would happen. :o

    That being said, hopefully in the coming generations we'll see the lifespan of the consoles reduced as they become more homogeneous with respect to PC architectures. That way devs would still have a target platform with a large install base for a few years while also being able to push things at the higher end for the PC market without having to worry about optimisation for the drastically different console architectures.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    i am not playing those games, not just because they are not on PC, but because i dont like them. Its same thing if someone would tell me to play fifa games, i just DONT LIKE that game. Its the matter of taste, not platform.

    Same way I LOVE DIABLO 3 and i got 100h++ in to it and game is not even out a month, but i wont be pushing that game on anyone who does not enjoy hack and slash with hoarder syndrome mixed in.
    I love my ps vita and i bough Mortal kombat on it, even if i already own it on xbox360! Its a console too, but i buy game, because i love it.

    My argument was: Dont use PC to show of graphics, and put on console badge on it, then bash how pc is **** and how PC gamers are fanboys, because they dont like to be LIED to.

    Ah, but here we get to the crux of the matter from your perspective, ShadowHearth. It's not that games aren't innovating, surprising and advancing: it's that you don't necessarily like the games that are doing it. Now don't get me wrong, I look forward to playing Diablo III in the near future, but even its biggest fans will happily admit it's a few tweaks and a coat of paint applied to an age old formula. Similarly, Mortal Kombat (and - IMO - give me Street Fighter any day of the week) is a riff on a long-established franchise, and for its modern bells and whistles is hardly the pinnacle of forward-thinking either (the opposite, if anything, with its proudly seedy, exploitative tone). This is evident elsewhere in the support being enjoyed by PC gaming Kickstarters - all the most successful of which are looking backwards, not forward (although I trust Tim Schafer to have a few tricks up his sleeve). For many - not all - gamers, PC and otherwise, the past remains the primary draw. And sure, we will always seek solace in the familiar, and that's entirely you prerogative to do so. And yes, sometimes I lust for an FPS with the ambition of Half-Life, Stalker or Deus Ex too.

    And yet! Look at all the games out there experimenting with form and function in highly ambitious ways. Not always successful, but always fascinating. Whether it's the incomparable emotive force of Journey. The haunting, provocative presentation of Dear Esther. The deconstruction of the traditional hero's quest in Superbrothers. Fez's or Gravity Rush's giddy distortion of perspective. The aesthetic triumphs El Shaddai, Okami, Madworld, Marasuma, Kirby's Epic Yarn. DayZ's hardcore survivalist thrills. New storytelling challenges constantly tackled by Valve, Bioware, thatgamecompany, even old David Cage (bless 'im). Nintendo's brave steps towards a universal, accessible gaming language: sometimes misguided, sometimes insanely successful. And that's not even going into the revolutions in input, gameplay, visuals and storytelling being undertaken by hundreds of iOS developers, or the constant positive changes being applied to old standard-bearers and genres (from Civ 5 to Street Fighter 4 to Left 4 Dead). I really could go on.

    No, technical / artistic / storytelling / gameplay innovations advances are occuring almost daily in every format: from consoles to PC to tablets to portable. Most embrace the eccentricities and strengths of their chosen format. Some make stunning use of graphical advances (Infinity Blade, Dear Esther), others opt for an endearingly low-fi aesthetic. All take risks, and all are every bit worthy of player attention than the traditional forms. I'd personally argue more so, but that's just me. You call for advances and yet you don't have to look far to find them.

    I always wonder why there's always a call for new tech, especially when many seem content to accept mere graphical updates and technical 'streamlining' (which, as I've said before, I don't consider to be the obscenity others do) to traditional franchises. No, there's countless developers out there abusing the current technology to giddy effect, and IMO it's rarely been so exciting to see the changes that are occuring almost everywhere. Eventually we'll need new technology to keep pace with all this experimentation, but most seem to be getting along fine as is.

    This is so much more than a mere simplistic format war - this is an ongoing revolution, an evolution. Embrace it, and you'll find all of the advances and forward-thinking you'll ever need.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,731 ✭✭✭✭K.O.Kiki


    http://www.destructoid.com/jimquisition-the-best-looking-game-this-generation-228168.phtml

    Jim Sterling would like you to re-examine what "good-looking game" actually means.

    I am inclined to agree with him.
    Great art direction & use of colour used by "kiddy" :rolleyes: games trumps the putrid, shít-brown palettes used in "high-tech" FPS games.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Bloody hell, that man is not wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,062 ✭✭✭al28283


    Dcully wrote: »
    You sure nobody cares?

    yup, it's always been the case


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    Its the same reason why cartoons age so well, while i agree they age much better and it would be nice to have a few more brightly colored games (Mostly Nintendo's fault why they've been lacking for me, since I've pretty much not played any Wii games because the console is ****).... wouldn't really want a generation full of cell shaded/cartoon styled games either !


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭deathrider


    Sarky wrote: »
    Bloody hell, that man is not wrong.

    He very rarely is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,534 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Magill wrote: »
    I've pretty much not played any Wii games because the console is ****)

    There is so much wrong with this statement.
    Your loss, seriously.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,151 ✭✭✭_CreeD_


    I can live with horsepower differences, I just wish to fk they'd get away from designing from the ground up for those damned controllers...they're good for some things, great for just screwing around from the couch but for an actual skilful reflex driven shooter of any kind they are useless. So inaccurate and slow vs. mouse/kbd. The move to slower games, more movie sequences, more triggered actions etc to mitigate this weakness is just killing gaming imho. The watch-dogs demo is a good example. Sure it looks nice but the actual gameplay? Click a button, choose an option, watch it complete....no skill, no challenge. Sure it looks good on a demo, maybe it'll actually feel good for a short while watching our character pull off some of the takedown moves...as long as you don't think about the fact that you had fk all to do with it except pressing a button and watching the eye candy. Compare something like UT2K4 to this.
    So I don't care if a new game is rendered on a PC or not, I want to see the gameplay designed for it again.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,717 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    There's these grand assumptions again. 'Killing gaming'? Or indeed killing challenge? Not in the slightest. Yes, a mouse and keyboard is the preferable input method for certain genres, such as the FPS, RTS and very specific types of RPG. But the controller is still the optimum input method for several other genres. There's a reason Street Fighter IV players - and I think we can all agree SFIV, where the best players rely on individual frames for reaction time, is the pinnacle of required action times - use arcade sticks. Try playing that with a mouse and keyboard. They are more accurate for that given purpose, and I certainly don't think you could call SFIV an 'easy' game (the people who play little else will attest to that). Similarly, Cave shooters - with their insanely mathematical combo systems and challenging bullet patterns - are more at home on consoles and iPhones than they are with a mouse and keyboard. Try getting a good score in Akai Katana - every bit as demanding on the senses and reaction times as anything the PC has to offer. Geomotry Wars and similar twin stick shooters demand a good pad. Not to mention Dark Souls: designed from the ground up to reflect the strengths and weaknesses of a joypad. And you seem to forget that several of the hardest, most challenging games of all time - from Ghouls and Ghosts to the Megaman games - originated on retro consoles, which had even more limited reaction times (and the designers were inspired in the way they dealt with that). It's frankly a ludicrous statement to even for a second suggest that consoles and control pads by their very nature make games easier. Again, you just seem to be looking in the wrong places.

    I also think challenge in itself is not the be all and end all. There needs to be a good mix. I wouldn't sacrifice the difficulty of Dark Souls, but nor would I want Journey to suddenly have a fail state. And maybe Watch_dogs is designed around tactics? Why would they make something take four or five buttons when they can do it in one or two? Not all streaming lining and efforts towards accessibility are worthy of vitriol. Only some of them ;)

    As for the 'graphics' argument proposed a few posts above. I can only wholly agree that art design will make a game look infinitely more pleasing than mere tech specs. Crysis is certainly a shiny series, but is about as artistically ambitious as the Transformers films. Meanwhile, games like Rayman Origins are El Shaddai are closer in visual tone to 2001: A Space Odyssey or Spirited Away. Yes, a generation of solely cel-shaded games would be unfortunately one-sided. But I'd still take it over a generation bland, 'realistic' shooters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    Mr E wrote: »
    There is so much wrong with this statement.
    Your loss, seriously.

    Maybe, maybe not.. i've played some of the bigger games (Mario galaxy/zelda's) but honestly, the entire concept of motion control does not interest me... besides, i simply wouldn't have had the time (Or the money) to sustain buying games for 3 different consoles and a PC. Hopefully the WiiU hasn't got as many **** casual games as the wii had.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,920 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    I am so tired of the PC/console argument. Some people prefer a keyboard and mouse others like a controller. Some PC's are better than consoles, some PC's are worse. Consoles are amazing, PC's are amazing. Gritty first person shooters are brown and grey get over it they make up such a tiny % of the full market. Consoles have not restricted the gameplay of any games, its just the big sellers have changed. In a few more years something else will be the big seller and people will moan how they killed the FPS market.

    If generic shooters bore you stop playing generic shooters. If you think games are not inventive or imaginative then broaden your choice there are hundreds of amazing inventive and imaginative games out there.

    The next generation is very important as with every generation it brings far more than a graphical boost. They bring massive jumps in game engines playing any of the HD remakes of PS2 classics will show you just how old those game engines are compared to modern games. There is a new method of producing games coming on stream for the next gen that will not only make games look miles better but will allow the games to be made far quicker as it requires far less work on the part of the artists. Reducing production times and costs.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,732 ✭✭✭Magill


    I am so tired of the PC/console argument. Some people prefer a keyboard and mouse others like a controller. Some PC's are better than consoles, some PC's are worse. Consoles are amazing, PC's are amazing. Gritty first person shooters are brown and grey get over it they make up such a tiny % of the full market. Consoles have not restricted the gameplay of any games, its just the big sellers have changed. In a few more years something else will be the big seller and people will moan how they killed the FPS market.

    If generic shooters bore you stop playing generic shooters. If you think games are not inventive or imaginative then broaden your choice there are hundreds of amazing inventive and imaginative games out there.


    The next generation is very important as with every generation it brings far more than a graphical boost. They bring massive jumps in game engines playing any of the HD remakes of PS2 classics will show you just how old those game engines are compared to modern games. There is a new method of producing games coming on stream for the next gen that will not only make games look miles better but will allow the games to be made far quicker as it requires far less work on the part of the artists. Reducing production times and costs.

    AMEN !


  • Registered Users Posts: 19 Conor125


    haha!


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