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Alternative roofing

  • 19-02-2015 6:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭


    has anyone used industrial/agricultural cladding on a domestic roof? Finalising a design at the moment and I am very taken by this house (below). I love how light the roof looks and I think it would look great in rural Ireland. Also there is no guttering - anyone tried that?

    f04fCqYFj


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    donalh087 wrote: »
    has anyone used industrial/agricultural cladding on a domestic roof? Finalising a design at the moment and I am very taken by this house (below). I love how light the roof looks and I think it would look great in rural Ireland. Also there is no guttering - anyone tried that?

    f04fCqYFj

    I did a round half barrel roof sheeted with corrugated metal painted with red oxide. It was really only for show, we got timber round roof trusses manufactured we sheeted them and they were covered in torch on felt, then purlin were screwed to the roof and the cladding foxed over it. It looked well afterwards but I would only use it as a feature not a roof. You need a real roof underneath and fit this afterwards for show. If you used it as the roof itself you'd have to deal with condensation on the sheets and the like. Also this roof was seriously expensive!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Yes, in the middle of it now. A 32mm corrugated roof to imitate a traditional barn. Built up warm roof underneath. Passive build.

    Cant see the link but I guess hidden gutters are what's used...lot more design and pre thought needed for this.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    ..cant see the pic in your thread..

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭donalh087


    Don't know why the pic has disappeared. Here is a separate link http://www.johnpawson.com/works/baron-house/

    @Miller_63 Very interesting. Have you any concerns? Did you see it in operation before you went for it? Would love to see some pics.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    No pictures yet as material hasn't arrived yet, in fact im on the hunt for an experienced installer to help and guide me on the physical fitting of it. Im scared :-) I should be taking delivery late next week.

    With regards to that picture, im unsure if the colour would get through planning. I think basically with corrugated you have two colour arguments if you trying to imitate older structures in Ireland. Dark Grey and Red. I had to submit a sample to satisfy planners.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    I am working on an extension and have found a multitude of examples of houses/extensions that use corrugated sheet as roofing and/or wall cladding. For materials check out Euroclad (Naas). I'm inspired by a really low-cost example :http://www.irishvernacular.com/
    That one used Onduline sheeting, some users in other countries have reported problems with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,034 ✭✭✭tabby aspreme


    I have seen corrugated sheet roofing used over straw thatch in old houses, the thatch still pretty much intact and not rotted after eighty years. Contact Tegral in Athy, they may be able to help source the colour sheeting you require, also Kildare county council produced a book on traditional rural buildings which could be worth a look


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    also have a look at Ross Cremins blog...

    http://mollyglass2012.tumblr.com/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    I am using Euroclad Vieo edge sheeting on my roof. It will be on in a couple of weeks, you are welcome to check it out on site. I can Pm you any information you want on it. Very cost effective!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    Superdaddy wrote: »
    I am using Euroclad Vieo edge sheeting on my roof. It will be on in a couple of weeks, you are welcome to check it out on site. I can Pm you any information you want on it. Very cost effective!

    Would love that info to compare...can you pm me please? Much appreciated. Id like to see it in situ too, where are you?

    Thanks

    Mike


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    I have seen corrugated sheet roofing used over straw thatch in old houses, the thatch still pretty much intact and not rotted after eighty years. Contact Tegral in Athy, they may be able to help source the colour sheeting you require, also Kildare county council produced a book on traditional rural buildings which could be worth a look

    That would be our roof, guess the original CGI roof went on in the 60's and I had to replace one section recently because of rust due to some sheets being levered off when an extension was bodged on in the 70's.

    Thatch is a bit dried out under the tin but not rotten at all. Main thing to remember is NOT to use an angle grinder anywhere near it in case you set it alight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 282 ✭✭Clseeper


    Superdaddy,

    When you say cost effective - what's a ballpark figure per m2 or per length? Have you have to adapt your roof build up at all? Extra starking boards or did you purchase as a SIP's type panel as shown on the quick google I did here:

    http://www.euroclad.com/roof-systems/vieo.aspx

    Those U values don't look great - well 0.15 may be ok.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Ever seen guttering on a thatched cottage?

    What you will often find is a drain thats directly under the drip line (or near to it) running around the house. With a new build you could put modern drains around the drip line and cover with gravel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    Clseeper wrote: »
    Superdaddy,

    When you say cost effective - what's a ballpark figure per m2 or per length? Have you have to adapt your roof build up at all? Extra starking boards or did you purchase as a SIP's type panel as shown on the quick google I did here:

    http://www.euroclad.com/roof-systems/vieo.aspx

    Those U values don't look great - well 0.15 may be ok.


    €15- €16m2

    Roof spec is as follows, it is a warm roof. Very similar to that on the Quinntherm IAB cert. http://www.quinn-therm.com/downloads/certs/quinntherm_iabcert.pdf

    Euroclad Vieo edge steel sheeting
    Breathable membrane
    18mm wpb plywood
    100mm 1200x2400 PIR foil faced board
    225mm x 44mm rafters @ 400mm centers
    full fill of rock wool, metac or similar between rafters
    Vapour/ airtight barrier

    12mm plaster board

    U value 0.102


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭donalh087


    @superdaddy - how is the roof progressing?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    donalh087 wrote: »
    @superdaddy - how is the roof progressing?

    It's ready for the Vieo sheeting, should be here next week. Gutter, facia and soffit are made from the same material and go on first.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,804 ✭✭✭recipio


    Galvanized steel obviously has a limited lifespan - think of all those rusty haysheds around the country.
    Is aluminium corrugated cladding too expensive to consider ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    recipio wrote: »
    Galvanized steel obviously has a limited lifespan - think of all those rusty haysheds around the country.
    Is aluminium corrugated cladding too expensive to consider ?

    And just how old do you think most of those rusty haysheds are?

    Our CGI roof is over 50 years old and has very little maintenance.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    recipio wrote: »
    Galvanized steel obviously has a limited lifespan - think of all those rusty haysheds around the country.
    Is aluminium corrugated cladding too expensive to consider ?
    They outlast most people reading this, I wouldn't be too worried about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    donalh087 wrote: »
    Don't know why the pic has disappeared. Here is a separate link http://www.johnpawson.com/works/baron-house/

    @Miller_63 Very interesting. Have you any concerns? Did you see it in operation before you went for it? Would love to see some pics.

    nearly finished now, great strides made over the weekend and glorious weather

    Flashings yet to go on...but pic gives you some idea.
    2015-04-04%2017.38.50_zpsrchrk0py.jpg

    2015-04-06%2018.07.21_zpslwomylqh.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    Sorry to go off topic and sound like a know it all but for your own sake watch the scaffolding lad, especially up the gable end. Its fairly scarce like!!!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    cork2 wrote: »
    Sorry to go off topic and sound like a know it all but for your own sake watch the scaffolding lad, especially up the gable end. Its fairly scarce like!!!

    Its in process of being moved to accommodate next stage ie Render....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    donalh087 wrote: »
    @superdaddy - how is the roof progressing?

    Over half the cladding done on the back of the house, north side, will add more photos when done. Really happy with it so far, looks great, I love the gutter and soffit. Barges and flashings yet to go on.

    11141152_10205497142441916_2238344809501988141_n.jpg?oh=a035437fdb04d2afd7d2496899334668&oe=55A97368


    10525933_10205497142801925_3730271197320082629_n.jpg?oh=9df1e0c592c64050bd0ec79d9a4fcd2b&oe=55A734DF


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    That looks fantastic...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    That looks fantastic...

    Looks a little like a lead roof.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,011 ✭✭✭ht9zni1gs28crp


    my3cents wrote: »
    Looks a little like a lead roof.

    Yup! That's where the standing seam roof originated from. Modern materials to imitate an original form.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    @ Miller_63 and Supperdaddy.

    Great looking roofs! Well done to both of you for going with something different. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 615 ✭✭✭donalh087


    @Superdaddy I am talking to Euroclad at the moment and they are quoting VieoZinc @ €28/m2
    Vieo HPS coated steel @ €23/m2. Is this what you are using?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    I'm using Vieo edge. Cheaper again. You are welcome to view mine.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭smokey-fitz


    Great job, looks good. How is this roof cost wise as apposed to a standard slate roof? I have an old farm yard stone shed im planning to renovate, starting to get quotes this coming week.

    Also what way are you doing insulation? Are you getting insulated cladding or insulating it seperate? Or both?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    Great job, looks good. How is this roof cost wise as apposed to a standard slate roof? I have an old farm yard stone shed im planning to renovate, starting to get quotes this coming week.

    Also what way are you doing insulation? Are you getting insulated cladding or insulating it seperate? Or both?

    It's insulated separately. It's called a warm roof. 100mm PIR board on top of the rafter and rock wool or similar between the rafters. 18mm plywood on top of PIR , then a breathable membrane and fix sheeting straight to it.

    11070383_10205357091380727_8104339154048569955_n.jpg?oh=75bff241e3893c28c0ce70b4bf3e8164&oe=55E5BD2F


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 167 ✭✭lownhard


    Superdaddy wrote: »
    I'm using Vieo edge. Cheaper again. You are welcome to view mine.

    Looks fantastic. Great choice. How much per m2 including ridges? What colour have you used? Are you going with flush gables? Is this possible with this type of material?

    Sorry about all the Qs


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    lownhard wrote: »
    Looks fantastic. Great choice. How much per m2 including ridges? What colour have you used? Are you going with flush gables? Is this possible with this type of material?

    Sorry about all the Qs

    Yes flush gables with a bit of a drip detail. I've used the colour anthracite.


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭useruser


    Superdaddy wrote: »
    Yes flush gables with a bit of a drip detail. I've used the colour anthracite.

    Looks really nice. Do you know how it will weather? Do you expect the colour/texture to change much (or at all?)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Are there any downsides to using vieo zinc compared to standard zinc? Thinking about roofing options for a new build and we were thinking about zinc or copper.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    useruser wrote: »
    Looks really nice. Do you know how it will weather? Do you expect the colour/texture to change much (or at all?)

    I don't expect it to change at all. Time will tell, it's not a new material, just a new way of folding it.
    Effects wrote: »
    Are there any downsides to using vieo zinc compared to standard zinc? Thinking about roofing options for a new build and we were thinking about zinc or copper.

    I saw a Vieo zinc roof being done when researching mine. The Vieo zinc is aluminium not steel. It weathers the same as zinc. More expensive than Vieo edge. The Vieo edge is available in any ral colour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭smokey-fitz


    Superdaddy wrote: »
    It's insulated separately. It's called a warm roof. 100mm PIR board on top of the rafter and rock wool or similar between the rafters. 18mm plywood on top of PIR , then a breathable membrane and fix sheeting straight to it.

    11070383_10205357091380727_8104339154048569955_n.jpg?oh=75bff241e3893c28c0ce70b4bf3e8164&oe=55E5BD2F

    Looks good.. lovely view too. Thanks for the tip, sounds like a great job too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Nkenny123456


    Hi
    We our designing our new build at the minute and have went with a flat roof. 1 for the design aspect and 2 not to block our neighbours light.
    So we won't be changing it but looking 4 experience on flat roof homes. Any advice.
    Thanks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,786 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    Hi
    We our designing our new build at the minute and have went with a flat roof. 1 for the design aspect and 2 not to block our neighbours light.
    So we won't be changing it but looking 4 experience on flat roof homes. Any advice.
    Thanks
    Know someone with a flat roof as the main roof on their house and they're finding it a nightmare getting an insurer to provide home insurance, some even decline to quote. Don't know if its something to do with their roof design, or the insurers refusing to insure against certain claims e.g. roof leaks/repairs or just refusing all cover, either way it's something you should look into.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Nkenny123456


    Anyone experience with flat roofs. Our house design is flat roofed and I love the contemporary look but worry about leaks


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4 Nkenny123456


    Thank a million I would have never known that. Something to look at.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    Anyone experience with flat roofs. Our house design is flat roofed and I love the contemporary look but worry about leaks

    Provided the builder is well experienced leaks shouldn't be a huge risk. What I would say is that in the last 7 or 8 houses I've priced there has been torch on felt and single ply membranes specified as the finish on the roof. It is just my opinion but I think these finishes are a quick job. If it were my own house I wouldn't consider them, an asphalt flat roof really is the only flat roof. If you do for some reason go for torch on felt, make sure that the installer doesn't use a roll of this felt and a roll of that felt, make sure it is a complete roof system from the one manufacturer and make sure you get a written guarantee from the manufacture at the end, generally at some stage a rep from the company will call during the installation to take a few pictures and provide some level of quality control.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    cork2 wrote: »
    Provided the builder is well experienced leaks shouldn't be a huge risk. What I would say is that in the last 7 or 8 houses I've priced there has been torch on felt and single ply membranes specified as the finish on the roof. It is just my opinion but I think these finishes are a quick job. If it were my own house I wouldn't consider them, an asphalt flat roof really is the only flat roof. If you do for some reason go for torch on felt, make sure that the installer doesn't use a roll of this felt and a roll of that felt, make sure it is a complete roof system from the one manufacturer and make sure you get a written guarantee from the manufacture at the end, generally at some stage a rep from the company will call during the installation to take a few pictures and provide some level of quality control.

    We built a lot of flat roof buildings, in the UK in particular (see pics of but one), and I would have to disagree - even our own office building is flat-roofed, and in a single ply membrane. For clarity, we don't do the water-proofing, only the structure under it.

    Bituminous membranes / asphalt I wouldn't put on any roof these days, and have not long ago replaced that with a single ply membrane on my mother-in-laws house - after 2 x claims with insurer for leaks, they simply declined to repair it any more, and we put a new mono-pitch roof on it instead, with a single ply membrane.

    Asphalt is not maintenance-free, and that's the issue imho.

    Another finish to consider, and which I like, is GRP -Glass Reinforced Plastic.

    Whichever you pick, as above, buy a 'system' with a comprehensive guarantee.

    As others have pointed out though, insurance on any flat roof building is a major problem here. The rule of thumb is that if the flat area exceeds 15% of the total area, and providing you can even get a quote, then you could be looking at up to a large loading - multiples of a 'standard' house in fact.

    The other thing to bear in mind is the definition of a 'flat roof'. You can have a 'flat roof'.....at 30 degree pitch :) ... so there is a scope to design something that is 'flat' but at a pitch above that which would fall foul of insurers rules. I can't remember for sure, but I think the pitch to stay above is 5 degrees.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    As I say it's only my opinion but I never took to single ply membranes I don't trust them, they are easily broken. Drop a slate on it and see what happens. In Cork in the past twelve months I've come across a major problem with single ply membrane that you wouldn't think of as an issue. In two separate locations where there has been exposed sites, during construction the engineers detail included ballast spread over the membrane to counter act the wind. In my opinion the ballast itself is a puncture risk but apart form that at all the particular issue was dirt and muck building up in the ballast over time and growing weeds. We've all see the miniature forest that can grow in gutters that aren't maintained, but when that happens on a single ply membrane and along come the birds they peck holes in it believe it or not!! One of the biggest shopping centres in Cork has single ply membrane on the roofs and on the parapets and the pigeons are doing wreck!! I agree with you asphalt is NOT maintenance free, but neither is any other flat roof.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    cork2 wrote: »
    As I say it's only my opinion but I never took to single ply membranes I don't trust them, they are easily broken. Drop a slate on it and see what happens. In Cork in the past twelve months I've come across a major problem with single ply membrane that you wouldn't think of as an issue. In two separate locations where there has been exposed sites, during construction the engineers detail included ballast spread over the membrane to counter act the wind. In my opinion the ballast itself is a puncture risk but apart form that at all the particular issue was dirt and muck building up in the ballast over time and growing weeds. We've all see the miniature forest that can grow in gutters that aren't maintained, but when that happens on a single ply membrane and along come the birds they peck holes in it believe it or not!! One of the biggest shopping centres in Cork has single ply membrane on the roofs and on the parapets and the pigeons are doing wreck!! I agree with you asphalt is NOT maintenance free, but neither is any other flat roof.

    Good one about the birds - never knew that !!

    There are different types of single ply membrane too - EPDM and PVC being but two, and each have their own pros/cons.

    Our office roof in these pics :

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    Neither did I till the problem arose, I think we'd better buy bird feeders in bulk!
    Most of my experiences so far are with EPDM.
    I will give it this though, single ply membrane is a lovely neat finish, very attractive looking!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    Roof problems caused by birds, what next? it reminds me of a case many years ago where glaziers were installing windows in a large development. Every morning when they came in the work done the previous day had been attacked, and had to be re-done. Putty had been removed. It looked like an animal was responsible, so they installed CCTV to try to catch the perpretator.
    Turned out to be a putty cat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 354 ✭✭pauldavis123


    Glass fiber is the only one, think about it, they build boats out of it.

    Never seen a boat using torch on ;-)

    Really cheap and really easy.

    Youtube a few videos.

    Metal is next best but it is noisy.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 291 ✭✭cork2


    Glass fiber is the only one, think about it, they build boats out of it.




    Most products come back to the fitter, fail to correctly ventilate glass fibre and your boat may just hit an ice berg ;) Also Glass fibre needs a parapet with zinc or plaster or cedar or something on it because I could think of nothing worse than looking at glass fibre every morning. Out of general curiosity what kind of guarantees are going with glass fibre roofs anyone know??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,790 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    cork2 wrote: »
    Most products come back to the fitter, fail to correctly ventilate glass fibre and your boat may just hit an ice berg ;) Also Glass fibre needs a parapet with zinc or plaster or cedar or something on it because I could think of nothing worse than looking at glass fibre every morning. Out of general curiosity what kind of guarantees are going with glass fibre roofs anyone know??

    Well one that I know of has a 20 or 25 year material guarantee, and is Agrément Bord Approved.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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