Dublin Bus Fleet size

trellheim · 09-05-2008 11:07pm #1

Public Transport.

17. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh Information Zoom asked the Minister for Transport Information Zoom the position regarding the upgrading of the Dublin Bus fleet. [17428/08]

Minister for Transport (Deputy Noel Dempsey): Information Zoom The upgrading of the Dublin Bus fleet, which currently stands at 1182 buses, is a matter for Dublin Bus. I understand from Dublin Bus that it purchased, with Exchequer assistance including under Transport 21, 213 additional buses, and 617 replacement buses over the period 2000-2007 and is in the process of purchasing a further 100 replacement buses for delivery in 2008 and 2009. I am informed that the average age of the Dublin Bus fleet is now 5.6 years compared to 7.2 years in 1999.

paulm17781 · 09-05-2008 11:47pm

What an excellent way to avoid answering the question. :rolleyes:

I thought they needed ministerial approval to expand the fleet?

Aquavid · 10-05-2008 7:53am

Ah, but he said upgrading rather than expansion.

And while the answer is technically correct, in that for one-for-one fleet replacement of older buses by new buses, the company does not need special sanction, the capital expenditure is still subject to oversight by the shareholder, who happens to be . . .

As regards fleet replacement, 50 new double-decks are due Aug/September to replace the final 1996 "RA" type Olympians at Donnybrook, and then start replacing 1997 "RV" types at other depots.

These new buses are the Volvo B9TL Enviro400 "EV" type (as currently seen on the 3, the 145, the 27B).

A further 50 Volvos are on order for delivery around the turn of the year which will complete replacement of all 1997 buses, and make a start on the 1998s. These 50 new buses will be bodied by Wright in Ballymena, so they will look quite different, but will be identical in mechanical spec terms.

You will note that the company is somewhat in advance of their plan to retire buses at the end of their 12 year, this is so that when they come to replacing the 1999 buses (all 215 of them) they will not have to do so all in one year.

Regards
Aquavid

de breeze · 10-05-2008 11:42am

I travel along the Stillorgan Road frequently and am amazed at the numbers of empty or near empty buses whizzing by even at morning peak. Would any of our bus experts have a figure for the capacity utilisation achieved by the State Commissar for Transport (SCT/CIE)?

Crude calculation: 10% utilisation off-peak. 50% over 4 hour peak suggests 25-30% daily average at best. To achieve sustainable transport, efforts need to be directed at maximising utilisation of existing fleet rather than even more tax fuelled runarounds.

Suppose SCT (and taxis) were charged to use the bus lanes, with charge reducing for number of passengers carried. This would surely incentivise them to carry more passengers and even save the taxpayer a few bob!

Red Alert · 10-05-2008 12:29pm

I notice the new EV-class (with the funky silver rails on the front) are doing top-up duty on the 46A which is something the company said wouldn't happen. Not fair on the rest of us. We need to radically expand the fleet size-wise and stop pandering to the private operators, many of whom are a bigger shambles than DB.

AlekSmart · 10-05-2008 1:16pm

Good thread this and one which cuts to the chase !

The entire area of Bus specification in relation to Bus Atha Cliath vehicles is in need of some closer inspection and CHANGE !

Our current "Standard" spec owes more to the old days of Two Person Operation than any modern alternative.
It is totally concentrated on the Driver Assisted Transaction which still features in 50% of Dublins journays (A TOTALLY unacceptable figure)

Most of a drivers time in-service tends to be taken up with repeditively answering the same questions from approximately 50% of those 50% Cash Payers...ie "Does this bus go to town"....."How much is the fare to..." etc.

Now,whilst human nature can and does have a hand in this,there is little doubt but it exposes a major flaw in Bus Atha Cliath Customer Information procedures....put simply....It does not work !

This long delay philosophy at each stop when allied with a vehicle design which conspires to restrict movement at the very location where ease of movement is required (The DOOR) leaves us with an unmanageable mess.

Take for example the VT class (3 Axle) which feature a really impressive hi-capacity capability.
Who in their right mind would specify a vehicle with 20% greater capacity whilst accepting a NARROWER front door coupled with the "Standard" long dwell cash-transaction.
(Incredibly,the first batch are now stabled at weekends due to them being less than fuel-efficient it seems.....?)

Whilst the second batch,now in service on the Blanchardstown corridor now have a wider front door,they still feature only a single entrance/exit and the "Traditional" bottleneck at the Drivers Cab.

It does not take a Nobel Laureate to reckon on the prime requirement for the 39 group being short-dwell easy-access operation,a factor which of itself will bring about a major increase in vehicle utilization stats.

Yet there exists no forward thinking within the company on this area for the simple reason that the Department of Transport will not countenance ANY deviation from Tradition,Joxer.

Travelling recently on Berlin`s tri-axle Man Lion double deck buses was a masterclass in how to specify vehicles with a view to maximising their efficiency.
3 doors,2 staircases, all utilized to the full.
The Berlin bus driver handles cash,gives change but only to the handful of ne`er do well`s such as lazy minded visitors and he/she does it out in the open with nary a security screen in sight ! :eek:

On my brief experience the cash transaction on the BVG Bus system comprised less than 10% of those boarding and was a joy to behold especially on BUSY routes such as the 100 and 200 central zone services.

Bus Atha Cliath now has one of the youngest fleet age profiles of any EU Capital,but is is comprised of vehicles specified in a retro mode which time and progress have conspired to render highly suspect in efficiency terms.

However it is equally disingenuous of Minister Dempsey to start fudging on the requirement for EXTRA Vehicles.
He,more than most, must know that the City`s Bus service needs those 350 EXTRA buses NOW,in addition to a major improvement in vehicle utilization within the EXISTING fleet.

The point here is that it is not Bus Atha Cliath which restricts its own efficiency but it`s SHAREHOLDER.
Yes.....Minister Dempsey hisself

,who if he were serious about this could at a stroke direct Bus Atha Cliath to introduce a Flat-Fare or simple 3 Zone Fare structure TODAY.....It really IS that simple....The Wayfarer TGX system is superbly flexible and can adopt with a few deft keyboard strokes to whatever fare collection system is required.

Until we can get the "Professionals" to recognize the reality that many answers to our current problems are in fact SIMPLE one`s then we are destined to lumber along with an ultra-modern fleet with Sat Nav,Real Time Info and every bell and whistle deemed necessary whilst the Driver continues to count the amount of 2c pieces being dropped laboriously into the chute by somebody who WANTS ! that 5c Change Ticket.......that sound you are hearing is Jesus weeping

markf909 · 10-05-2008 4:17pm

I wrote a long letter to DB recently asking about the possibility of moving to a flat fare with the advent of the smart card to reduce dwell times and increase throughput for all passengers.

I got a one line response. "We have no plans to do that".

The really sad thing is that DB are more innovative than any of the other semi states :mad:

HydeRoad · 10-05-2008 5:24pm

Never mind 350 EXTRA buses, at quarter of a million investment each.

Dublin Bus would have 350 more buses available immediately, if 10 to 15 minutes were cut from the journey time of every major bus route into the city. (Would that not encourage more than anything else, better patronage of buses?)

That time would be cut, primarily, by reducing the dwell time at bus stops by 50 to 75%. Get rid of this archaic, backward, costly NONSENSE of drivers wasting valuable time counting coins, holding up other traffic, and most importantly, holding up all the other buses.

It would also be cut by a few simple yet innovative tweaks to the bus lane network, to ease buses through junctions that bit easier. Let someone who has sat behind the wheel of a bus design the bus lanes. Simple.

It is SO basic, so fundamental to adult as opposed to childish reasoning, yet as usual in Ireland we are blinded to the future by the unblinking stranglehold of the past.

MiniD · 10-05-2008 5:44pm

I totally agree about the Dwell times at bus stops. If the plan to make the city centre car free comes through, it should be seen as a time to make bus pick up's in that area cash free. There just needs to be a few Luas style machines placed at the key stops in O'Connell Street and College Green to issue tickets. Passengers pay here rather than pay the driver.

When you see a bus stop for 3/5 minutes to collect passengers it has a serious impact on journey times. We live in a self service society now, we scan our own groceries, we collect cinema tickets from the machine etc. Surely getting on a bus on a packed street shouldn't mean having to purchase a ticket from the bus driver.

AlekSmart · 12-05-2008 11:11pm

Have to say it`s heartening to see these posts from folks who appreciate how any large scale Public Transport service MUST begin with the premise of maximising its effectivity by strongly supporting those of it`s customers who are prepared to adapt and utilize the most efficient means of utilizing the service.

However,and sadly even in the more recent history of the Company,its marketing efforts have been somewhat skewed towards a softly softly socailly aware model which purports to show the Bus Service as an extention of,what in the UK would be a Local Authority funded "Community Service" operated with dedicated mini-buses on a dial-a-ride basis.

Thus,as I see it Dublin requires a slash and burn job on its current mish mash of invisible fare stages,CitiZones,child fares,school fares,shoppers fares and whatever new fare we can find button space on the machine for.

A single relatively high Cash Fare valid for 90 mins as the standard (and ONLY) cash fare available with the remainder of fares being highly discounted on a Pre-Paid basis.

Very cheap carrot vs VERY expensive stick and allied to the Company taking on a new vision of its own services in which muppety anti-social behaviour on its currently well organized scale is tackled head-on and removed from the Public Transport equation.

However reality intrudes and I must thank Markf909 for a quote which I rather like as my new signature........

"We have No plans to do that "

For me it sez it all...............:mad: :mad: :mad:

sgt.bilko · 13-05-2008 1:53pm

does this mean driver recruitment?

dogmatix · 13-05-2008 2:01pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

A single relatively high Cash Fare valid for 90 mins as the standard (and ONLY) cash fare available with the remainder of fares being highly discounted on a Pre-Paid basis.

Given traffic gridlocks, a 2 hour limit for a single flat fare would be an even better idea. You buy your ticket and it would give you free travel for 2 hours on any form of public transport (DART, Arrow, Luas, Bus etc) within a specificed metro zone, say a radius of 35 miles from the GPO. Make the flat fare really cheap - say 1 euro?

And bring back the old discounted prepaid 10 journey ticket!

Deep down I think the politicians must be made to realise that public transport should be a public service instead of the current attitude where they are trying to ensure it can pay its own way without exchequer input.

Dublin Bus Fleet size

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