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Anyone else surprised that Stuxnet isn't getting more attention?

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Comments

  • #52
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    So you're fine with an Iran allied with Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria and several other terrorist gangs, having nukes? You're ok with that.

    Not really, but the moment nuclear weapons were brought into the region, it will be only a matter of time before someone else gets them. The current situation of some having weapons and others not having them is in the long term unsustainable. Its only a matter of time, before someone else gets such weapons.

    Still, I remain unconvinced of a active Iranian nuclear weapons program. They have even stated point blank its against there Religion, and since there a clerical regime, they kind of have to stick to that, or lose credibility, or come up with one hell of reason for violating one of there own Religous edicts.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Nukes are not something you can roll back by the way. Once a country has them, that's it, they have them for good.

    Well, except for South Africa, who gave them up.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    You're ok with Iran having them then?

    No, but there not building any, and I don't concern myself with claims from basically the same people who made the exact same claims in regard to Iraq. There either liars or incompetent.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    You do realise that governments like Syria and Iran have vast underground and secured bunkers so that even in the event of a nuclear strike against their county the clerics and the government of these countries would survive. I doubt they would care too much about the ordinary citizen on the street.

    Well, firstly I have no idea what you are now bringing Syria into this. Are you suggesting they have a nuclear weapons program?

    Also, I am sure you can provide evidence that the leaders of Syria and Iran would have no issues, with most of the population being killed in a nuclear war. Of course, there isn't even convincing evidence of nuclear weapons program for Iran, and I don't think even the US are making any claims about a Syrian nuclear weapons program.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Don't you get that the clerics of Iran are nuts?

    I am sure you perfectly qualified to make that statement. Still, as crazy as they may be, the clerics have said that nuclear weapons are forbidden under there branch of Shia Islam.


  • #53
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    wes wrote: »
    Not really, but the moment nuclear weapons were brought into the region, it will be only a matter of time before someone else gets them. The current situation of some having weapons and others not having them is in the long term unsustainable. Its only a matter of time, before someone else gets such weapons.

    Still, I remain unconvinced of a active Iranian nuclear weapons program. They have even stated point blank its against there Religion, and since there a clerical regime, they kind of have to stick to that, or lose credibility, or come up with one hell of reason for violating one of there own Religous edicts.



    Well, except for South Africa, who gave them up.



    No, but there not building any, and I don't concern myself with claims from basically the same people who made the exact same claims in regard to Iraq. There either liars or incompetent.



    Well, firstly I have no idea what you are now bringing Syria into this. Are you suggesting they have a nuclear weapons program?

    Also, I am sure you can provide evidence that the leaders of Syria and Iran would have no issues, with most of the population being killed in a nuclear war. Of course, there isn't even convincing evidence of nuclear weapons program for Iran, and I don't think even the US are making any claims about a Syrian nuclear weapons program.



    I am sure you perfectly qualified to make that statement. Still, as crazy as they may be, the clerics have said that nuclear weapons are forbidden under there branch of Shia Islam.

    They are not building any? They better not be for all our sakes!

    No-one gives a damn about if Iran's rights were infringed or not, seriously.

    Iran aquiring nuclear weapons would be a complete nightmare not just for the middle east but with the very real risk of proliferation for the whole world. They are allied with so many nutjobs the world over, Al Sadr of Iraq, Hezbolah, Hamas, and so on, all of who are violent anti western zealots and who have no problem dying for their religion, in fact they see it as a great honour.

    It would be uttterly stupid for western intelligence agencies to take the Iranians at their word and not make every effort to find out what they are doing and if they intend to build nukes.

    Lets worry about childish concerns about who spies on who another time.


  • #54
    troposphere
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 174 ✭✭troposphere


    wes wrote: »
    Well, firstly I have no idea what you are now bringing Syria into this. Are you suggesting they have a nuclear weapons program?

    The Israeli's bombed it a few years ago

    IAEA: Syria site bombed by Israel 'was likely nuclear'

    A Syrian site bombed by Israeli jets in 2007 was "very likely" a nuclear reactor, the UN's atomic watchdog says.

    BBC


  • #55
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    troposphere wrote: »
    The Israeli's bombed it a few years ago

    So they don't actually have a program then, what with it being blown up......


  • #56
    plasmaguy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,683 ✭✭✭plasmaguy


    Wes, you are very naive, that's all I will say.


  • #57
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    They are not building any? They better not be for all our sakes!

    They don't have active nuclear weapons program. Also, even if they did, while it certainly wouldn't be a good thing, its hardly the end of the world.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    No-one gives a damn about if Iran's rights were infringed or not, seriously.

    I think the Iranians give a damn, and Russia and China have blocked anymore UN sanction, also seem to give a damn. Also, India is still trading with them, via various work arounds, to avoid unilateral US and EU sanctions.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Iran aquiring nuclear weapons would be a complete nightmare not just for the middle east but with the very real risk of proliferation for the whole world.

    Nice hyperbole right there. While Iran getting weapons isn't a good thing, the fact remains there is no weapons program.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    They are allied with so many nutjobs the world over, Al Sadr of Iraq, Hezbolah, Hamas, and so on, all of who are violent anti western zealots and who have no problem dying for their religion, in fact they see it as a great honour.

    There hardly the only people allied with deeply unpleasant people. A lot of the people with Nuclear weapons are similarly aligned with deeply unpleasant sorts and the world is still here. Nonetheless, there is still no such program, so nothing to worry about.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    It would be uttterly stupid for western intelligence agencies to take the Iranians at their word and not make every effort to find out what they are doing and if they intend to build nukes.

    There a clerical regime, so invoking religious law and going back on that would be disastrous for the regime. The West likes to bang on about it being a clerical regime, when it suits, but then ignores it, when its inconvenient for them. Ignoring the nature of the regime, when it suits is imho evidence of people who want war regardless of the reality of the situation.

    Also US intelligence has said there not building a weapon:
    U.S. Says Iran Ended Atomic Arms Work
    Special Report: Intel shows Iran nuclear threat not imminent

    So even what is surely hugely biased US intelligence doesn't seem to believe there is an active nuclear weapons program.
    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Lets worry about childish concerns about who spies on who another time.

    Hardly childish concerns as you put it. Also, its bit more than spying, what with sabotage, backing terrorists, and the murder of civilian nuclear scientists. All of those things are deeply dangerous and could kick off a very real war in the region, as opposed to the US latest claims of imaginary WMDs.

    Such a war may result in Iran actually starting a weapons program.


  • #58
    wes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    plasmaguy wrote: »
    Wes, you are very naive, that's all I will say.

    The only people who are naive, are those who believe the same liars who brought, us the utterly disastrous Iraq war, that resulted in a great deal of death and destruction. Now, some seem to be eager for a repeat of that disaster, but personally I am against it.

    Look, I am under no illusions about the Iranian regime. There really rather brutal.

    However, I am under no illusions about the West either, who are pretty damn brutal themselves, and are just as happy as Iran, to torture, murder and support terrorists, when it suits there interests.

    There are no good or bad guys, just various people who want power with competing interests, who are all perfectly capable of killing when it suits.


  • #59
    Eggy Baby!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Eggy Baby!


    You do realise that governments like Syria and Iran have vast underground and secured bunkers so that even in the event of a nuclear strike against their county the clerics and the government of these countries would survive. I doubt they would care too much about the ordinary citizen on the street.

    So the Iranian regime would nuke America/Israel then chill out underground while there is a retaliation, and then surface? I know you seem to hate the Iranian regime but nobody wants to see their own people die for no reason whatsoever- in the case of the regime it would be their fellow Muslims who are dying for no purpose whatsoever. Nobody, even Hitler, is that crazy/stupid.

    And Iran is building nukes because it is isolated and the prospect of war with it is being bandied around freely by the West and Israel. It is not a prospect of when or if there will be war with Iran, but how. Its government has been overthrown by the CIA/MI5 in the past so it has every reason to feel isolated. Why would Iran give away its only bargaining chip to terrorist groups?


  • #60
    cyberhog
    Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭cyberhog


    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    I realize everyone already assumed it, but I would have thought an apparent confirmation that Stuxnet was commissioned by Obama and created by US authorities would have gotten far more attention on forums and in the media?

    Now it seems Israel wants the credit for creating Stuxnet.

    Last week The New York Times published a story claiming that the US administration was behind the the development and deployment of Stuxnet. Israel, it appears, begs to differ.

    read more: http://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/view/26241/stuxnet-was-our-idea-says-israel


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