Manchester United v Aston Villa KO - 4:00

parc · 15-04-2012 10:25pm

on MOTD they mentioned the dubious penalty decision given at old trafford

mmm guess the villa handball where we should have had another penalty will be mentioned soon enough...oh wait it wasn't

Ordinary man · 15-04-2012 10:31pm

niallo27 wrote: »

Well you could saw I'm outraged that one was punished and the other wasn't.

So it's not the blatent theatrics that pisses you off, it's that carroll didn't get away with it too?

Liam O · 15-04-2012 10:31pm

Was there this much outrage at Young cheating when he was doing it at Villa the last few years?

I've said it before, if someone is clever enough to con the ref they deserve the penalty. Until the rules are changed to more severely punish diving then the gains outweigh the possible punishment and players will continue to do it. There's nothing funnier than a failed dive though

Mr Alan · 15-04-2012 10:35pm

Liam O wrote: »

Was there this much outrage at Young cheating when he was doing it at Villa the last few years?

I've said it before, if someone is clever enough to con the ref they deserve the penalty. Until the rules are changed to more severely punish diving then the gains outweigh the possible punishment and players will continue to do it. There's nothing funnier than a failed dive though

That's all well & good, but I think the issue stems from when that opinion only surfaces when a player at your club does it whereas if a rival does it, it's moral outrage all the way.

Not nescessarily talking about you, but plenty of the people defending Young in here (some even going as far as to say he didn't cheat!) are the same people who get right into their pulpits & rant against the likes of Bale, Suarez etc. That's just idiocy of the highest degree.

Son Of A Vidic · 15-04-2012 10:39pm

niallo27 wrote: »

They are both shocking dives in fairness, you cant deny that.

I mentioned nothing about dives in my post, but I did mention contact. Carroll blatantly attempted to cheat since there was no contact made whatsoever. Young may have overreacted, but there was contact and he was clipped. His reaction was uncalled for since the penalty was beyond question.

As SAF himself said....

"He has definitely taken a fall, it was a dramatic fall and he overdid it, but it's a penalty definitely."

So I also share his opinion on this.

Liam O · 15-04-2012 10:43pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

That's all well & good, but I think the issue stems from when that opinion only surfaces when a player at your club does it whereas if a rival does it, it's moral outrage all the way.

Not nescessarily talking about you, but plenty of the people defending Young in here (some even going as far as to say he didn't cheat!) are the same people who get right into their pulpits & rant against the likes of Bale, Suarez etc. That's just idiocy of the highest degree.

I guess so, and tbh, in the heat of the game it does leave a bitter taste and I do go mad about it, in general though it's more anger at the referee for not seeing it and even then I have a much more lax attitude to it anyway now (think it was the torture that some of the Real-Barca games last season) and when I remove myself from the games bias wise it makes perfect sense why players would do it and if push came to shove I reckon in some situations I might do the same.

As far as I'm concerned if someone makes a foulworthy tackle and you are able to see it coming and adapt to both reduce the risk of injury and make it look like more of a foul there's very little reason not to either attempt to avoid the contact or at least make the most of it.

Corholio · 15-04-2012 10:48pm

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I mentioned nothing about dives in my post, but I did mention contact. Carroll blatantly attempted to cheat since there was no contact made whatsoever. Young may have overreacted, but there was contact and he was clipped. His reaction was uncalled for since the penalty was beyond question.

As SAF himself said....

So I also share his opinion on this.

Nonsense. He wasn't clipped. It seems if you are near a player there must have been 'contact' or that they were 'clipped'. The only thing beyond question was the dive. If that happened against United he wouldn't be saying the same thing. Manager's 'opinions' = tons of salt.

Corholio · 15-04-2012 10:50pm

Liam O wrote: »

I guess so, and tbh, in the heat of the game it does leave a bitter taste and I do go mad about it, in general though it's more anger at the referee for not seeing it and even then I have a much more lax attitude to it anyway now (think it was the torture that some of the Real-Barca games last season) and when I remove myself from the games bias wise it makes perfect sense why players would do it and if push came to shove I reckon in some situations I might do the same.

As far as I'm concerned if someone makes a foulworthy tackle and you are able to see it coming and adapt to both reduce the risk of injury and make it look like more of a foul there's very little reason not to either attempt to avoid the contact or at least make the most of it.

One of the more well thought out arguments here today. However, what Young attempted was neither to escape a foulworthy tackle or to reduce injury. He dived to win a penalty.

PhlegmyMoses · 15-04-2012 11:14pm

Edit: Wrong thread.

niallo27 · 15-04-2012 11:16pm

Ordinary man wrote: »

So it's not the blatent theatrics that pisses you off, it's that carroll didn't get away with it too?

I never said i wasnt pissed off with Carrol, it was a shocking dive.

niallo27 · 15-04-2012 11:18pm

Liam O wrote: »

I guess so, and tbh, in the heat of the game it does leave a bitter taste and I do go mad about it, in general though it's more anger at the referee for not seeing it and even then I have a much more lax attitude to it anyway now (think it was the torture that some of the Real-Barca games last season) and when I remove myself from the games bias wise it makes perfect sense why players would do it and if push came to shove I reckon in some situations I might do the same.

As far as I'm concerned if someone makes a foulworthy tackle and you are able to see it coming and adapt to both reduce the risk of injury and make it look like more of a foul there's very little reason not to either attempt to avoid the contact or at least make the most of it.

He was probaly more likely to have gotten injured from the theatrical dive he made than the actual tackle today.

Nalz · 15-04-2012 11:33pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

Here you go.....

Dive. Another poor decision from the ref. poor stuff from young.

Fück off with all this I wonder is it just the Liverpool fans shîte will ye! It's poo.

Mikeyt086 · 15-04-2012 11:46pm

It was a dive, the ref will use the contact to cover his arse, but Ashley Young literally dived to the ground, he would have done so contact or not. The ref made a mistake. Again. They make one in every single game.

There is no conspiracy to give Manchester United an advantage. Anyone who argues with that is looking for an argument and will not get any satisfaction from me, and I would encourage others to act in a similar fashion. To those who have an issue with fans of Manchester United defending Ashley Young's actions, are you really surprised? If the shoe was on the other foot? etc. etc. Get a grip and move on.

monkey9 · 16-04-2012 12:11am

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

I mentioned nothing about dives in my post, but I did mention contact. Carroll blatantly attempted to cheat since there was no contact made whatsoever. Young may have overreacted, but there was contact and he was clipped. His reaction was uncalled for since the penalty was beyond question.

As SAF himself said....

So I also share his opinion on this.

He did and so did Young. They're both the same. They both decided they would fall to the ground in the anticipation of contact. In Carroll's case, there was none. In Young's case, he made the contact occur when he stood on the defenders foot.

Nalz · 16-04-2012 12:27am

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

There is no conspiracy to give Manchester United an advantage.

I'm delighted we got that penalty but it was poor form from Young, like it would be of any player from any team. I'm not going to defend him one bit. I thought the ref tried to make up for it for ignoring 3 handballs, one of which would have been a penalty to United imo. He had a poor enough game today I thought.

3 points in the bag... lets move on to Everton game.

Son Of A Vidic · 16-04-2012 12:47am

Corholio wrote: »

Nonsense. He wasn't clipped.

Oh look the sky is blue and yet you say it is green, no surprise there I suppose.

monkey9 wrote: »

He did and so did Young. They're both the same.

The same? Surely you are not comparing Carroll's invisible foul to the clipping of Young's foot? But If so, then you should probably take it to the comedy forum.

Blatter · 16-04-2012 12:50am

Was at the game today, decent performance and good result. Can't ask for much more at this stage of the season.

De Gea, little to do, was fine.

Evra, fine. Did what he had to do and did well for the second goal.

Rio and Evans, solid out. Rio misplaced a few passes in the first half but nothing to worry about. Evans was fantastic yet again.

Rafael, one of our better performers. Defended well and joined in with attack well, only thing lacking was end product.

Young, dived for the pen, was a decent threat otherwise. Okay game, can do better.

Scholes, sensational first half, took the foot off the gas in the second.

Carrick, more adventurous than usual (because of Villa) and did well.

Valencia, got on the ball a lot but lacked end product. Can do better.

Rooney, scored twice but I couldn't believe how awful he was. Dreadful display from him.

Welbeck, did well. Showed some neat touches and created a couple of openings plus scored a tap in.

Cleverley, Nani and Berbatov all did well when they came on. Great to have such quality in the squad for the last 4 games.

monkey9 · 16-04-2012 1:05am

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Oh look the sky is blue and yet you say it is green, no surprise there I suppose.

The same? Surely you are not comparing Carroll's invisible foul to the clipping of Young's foot? But If so, then you should probably take it to the comedy forum.

They both anticipated contact. None arrived for Carroll, Young stood on the defenders foot and jumped up like he stood on a landmine. They both dived, they both should have booked.

Nalz · 16-04-2012 1:10am

monkey9 wrote: »

They both anticipated contact. None arrived for Carroll, Young stood on the defenders foot and jumped up like he stood on a landmine. They both dived, they both should have booked.

I think the vast majority agree with you. I don't see where he was clipped but then all I'm going on is that clip posted here. I think its enough though to say it wasn't a pen. We should move on really. Its a pity nothing can be done to punish Young and others that get away with this

Rooney was our worst player today. Evans, Rio, Rafael, Carrick and Scholes were very good imo. The rest, bar Rooney to a degree, did a solid job.

onemorechance · 16-04-2012 2:57am

Blatter wrote: »

...

Rio and Evans, solid out. Rio misplaced a few passes in the first half but nothing to worry about. Evans was fantastic yet again.

...

Rooney, scored twice but I couldn't believe how awful he was. Dreadful display from him.

It will be interesting to see if Evans keeps his place next season when Vidic returns. The centre backs are positions which typically SAF likes to keep consistent. I think that Evans has earned his place alongside Vidic and I think his progress would be hampered if he isn't given priority over Rio next season.

As for Rooney, it would be a worry if he isn't going to be on top form for the last few games.

Trilla wrote: »

I think the vast majority agree with you. I don't see where he was clipped but then all I'm going on is that clip posted here. I think its enough though to say it wasn't a pen. We should move on really. Its a pity nothing can be done to punish Young and others that get away with this

Rooney was our worst player today. Evans, Rio, Rafael, Carrick and Scholes were very good imo. The rest, bar Rooney to a degree, did a solid job.

It's hard to argue that Ashley did not try to make contact and simulated a fall. The ref gave a penalty and as you said will say that the defender had his leg out and contact was made. It was mentioned in the match thread as a joke, but would it have been possible for the ref to award the penalty but also book Ashley for exaggerating the fall? Doubt any ref would want to open that can of worms! :pac:

Rooney still deserves praise for putting away the penalty, he has been very reliable with those lately.

Xavi6 · 16-04-2012 6:28am

Young's actions are nothing to do with Manchester United as such (although it'd be good if they fined him like others have done to their player), it's him as a player. He was a diver at Villa and he's a diver now, and he should be publicly slated for it in the same way that pesky foreigner Pires was.

Criticising Young for his theatrics is NOT Manchester United bashing or ABU mob mentality, it's pointing out blatant cheating by a player who would act that way no matter what shirt he was wearing.

There should be Eduardo-esque repurcussions for players who engage in that sort of bollox, whoever they play for (and yes, I include any City player in that before some smart arse goes down that road).

mada999 · 16-04-2012 7:36am

dahat wrote: »

Voting contest now open for best dive!!:D

Carroll all day long for me but hell i'm biased!!

difference is.... Carroll got a yellow card.... Young 'won' a penalty....

Dubit10 · 16-04-2012 8:03am

mada999 wrote: »

difference is.... Carroll got a yellow card.... Young 'won' a penalty....

Both cheats imo. The difference is as you said one is punished whilst with the other one the ref takes the easy option and gives the peno instead of doing the right thing. As long as these chancers continue to get away with this sort of behaviour people have a right to be angry.

Will I Amnt · 16-04-2012 9:34am

Dubit10 wrote: »

Both cheats imo. The difference is as you said one is punished whilst with the other one the ref takes the easy option and gives the peno instead of doing the right thing. As long as these chancers continue to get away with this sort of behaviour people have a right to be angry.

He didn't take the easy option,he was conned into thinking it was a foul.

kryogen · 16-04-2012 10:55am

That Carroll one is feckin brutal though isnt it! How low is his confidence that he didnt feel he could slot it into the empty net after getting past the keeper! Made no sense to dive there, very puzzling

Nalz · 16-04-2012 11:10am

kryogen wrote: »

That Carroll one is feckin brutal though isnt it! How low is his confidence that he didnt feel he could slot it into the empty net after getting past the keeper! Made no sense to dive there, very puzzling

They both cheated because they knew their last touch potentially could have killed their move. Carrolls looks worse cas of the open net and his touch was less heavier than Youngs. Both cheats.

ROCKMAN · 16-04-2012 11:10am

Call me mad
but

Anyone think Berbatov getting game time could be with the City game in mind
ie a deep playing Rooney making a 5 man ish midfield ,With Nani and Valencia given width and speed on the break ,and Berbatov (our best hold up player imo) upfront.

kryogen · 16-04-2012 11:13am

Trilla wrote: »

They both cheated because they knew their last touch potentially could have killed their move. Carrolls looks worse cas of the open net and his touch was less heavier than Youngs. Both cheats.

What?

I aint getting involved in this load of **** in any way shape or form!

Simply an observation on Carrolls dive, dunno how his last touch could have killed the move, looked pretty straight forward tap in from the angle. Didnt watch it live or see replays.

kryogen · 16-04-2012 11:14am

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Call me mad
but

Anyone think Berbatov getting game time could be with the City game in mind
ie a deep playing Rooney making a 5 man ish midfield ,With Nani and Valencia given width and speed on the break ,and Berbatov (our best hold up player imo) upfront.

Na Id say its more in mind of getting him a medal if we do win the title

killwill · 16-04-2012 11:15am

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Call me mad
but

Anyone think Berbatov getting game time could be with the City game in mind
ie a deep playing Rooney making a 5 man ish midfield ,With Nani and Valencia given width and speed on the break ,and Berbatov (our best hold up player imo) upfront.

You are mad!!!!!

I think he will start on the bench myself but he is agreat option to have if you are packing the midfield. He is probably more likely to score than Hernandez and Wellbeck anyway!!!!

Manchester United v Aston Villa KO - 4:00

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