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Honda Civic hybrid converted to LPG

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Running the Prius in EV mode for extended periods imo isn't a good idea. It wasn't designed for this and it puts extra strain on the components.

    The Prius is excellent as a hybrid working as it's meant to be.

    You can have issues with BMS on the cells and it only takes one. LiFeP04 is a pretty safe chamistry at the expense of size and weight from the best cells that say, Tesla use. They are not nearly as good but they are safe, tesla cells must have liquid cooling.

    The Leaf cells are also safe and have been 0 reports of fires due to collision even with smashed cells.

    Nissan chose safety over capacity. There is a trade off. However despite the fires in tesla cars there were 0 injuries, and it's a very safe car, the fires were due to pretty serious collisions. A petrol car may or may not have ended up in flames, thing is, a petrol car is far more dangerous when it goes up as it holds a lot more energy.

    10 grand for a leaf next year or maybe less would be a ultra cheap car to run, provided the battery is in reasonable condition. But even if it has a 10% loss in capacity it would still be very useful.


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    #33
    johnievers
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭johnievers


    I am thinking of convering my 2007 honda civic hybrid to LPG - how did you get on after a few fills.
    lfp wrote: »
    The best economy help from the electric motor comes at slower speeds and accelerating. The electric motor has very little input on motorway driving. The key to good mpg for me is cruise control. The car seems to be way more efficient when I use it. I'm guessing its to do with the computer being better able to select battery input and kick in the lean burn mode of the 1.33 engine. How u drive is a big factor also. My wife never uses cruise control and wouldn't coast downhills and that all adds up in seriously reducing mpg compared to my own driving.

    On the fuel cap location. It's easy to access, no dirty knees. The actual dirt on the bumper might be a headache. I'll report back after a few fills.... I'll be stealing a pack or two if baby wipes, just in case!


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    #34
    lfp
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭lfp


    johnievers wrote: »
    I am thinking of convering my 2007 honda civic hybrid to LPa lG - how did you get on after a few fills.
    To answer you fully I'll need to give a long enough response.
    I've done about 43,000kms since the conversion was done late last year. On paper it's been a brilliant financial decision. I do mainly motorway driving and the average mpg on the high 120kph lpg is about 35mpg. When I'm doing a week of normal steady driving mixing city/motorway/slow roads the mpg is more like 45mpg. To convert that to normal fuel cost formula it would be like 55mpg on motorway and probably 75mpg on normal driving. In fairness that is good for real life figures. I'd guess the most fuel efficient 1.6 diesels wouldn't give the same real life figures. The only extra cost was 20e to replace the lpg fuel filter. Other than that service costs are the same.
    Now for the downsides.
    About 5% of the time the lpg station will be out of lpg or out of order.
    The lpg pump is always in the open, no cover/roof. A nightmare in wet weather.
    My wife has tried and failed to use the lpg pump EVERY TIME. It's not complicated but there are clicks and tightening that women seem to dislike.
    Now for the big issue. After about 20,000kms I started to get the odd knock from the engine and slight loss of power and the check engine light came on, along with the VSA warning light. Over the past few months it has gotten steadily worse. The knocking sound can be loud and the loss of power can reduce speed from 90kph to 25kph. Once the VSA warning light kicks in the issue stops and the engine is perfect for the rest of the journey, be it 1 mile or 100 miles. However, once I stop the car and restart the VSA is cleared and the problem will probably occure again. This happens on petrol aswell as lpg. I've had it checked by my own independent garage whom I trust along with the lpg guys and a local honda garage. Bottom line, the engine is perfect as are injectors, spark plugs, sensors etc. They all agree on the misfires occuring and that the VSA warning light "solves" it, literally one journey at a time. Fuel economy is still as good.
    Having read a good few Honda forums it seems the VSA warning kicking in stops the VCM - Variable cylinder management, a honda system that shuts down cylinders while driving at certain speeds to increase fuel efficiency. I'm guessing the lpg has confused the system or caused a change to some aspect of engine timing that in a non vcm engine wouldn't matter but with such a sensitive system it has caused these misfires.
    Financially the payoff is still accruing, but I'm living with the fear something might go in the engine some day soon. The misfire itself is only a very small iirritant, it's not knowing the why or how that's the killer. My garage said I could spend 3k changing plugs, injectors, sensors and still not fix it OR I could leave it be and the car could kick it another 100, 000 miles with just the odd misfires.
    All in all I'd advise a lad to walk away from doing this on the Civic hybrid. I think the 1.3l engine is a little small and refined/sensitive. The lpg conversions are usually on much bigger and robust engines. Even the prius is a 1.8l.
    Saying all that, the maths have worked and one week I "minded" my driving and got over 55mpg on the lpg which is almost 90mpg in cost terms compared to petrol/deisel.


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    #35
    johnievers
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭johnievers


    Thanks that is very helpful


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    #36
    lfp
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭lfp


    One final update on this conversion. On the basis the misfires were caused by the vcm system I tested a hunch. I put the car in S gear (sports mode) as opposed to the usual D gear. My hope was the Sports mode would not allow the vcm to kick in. I don't know if the hunch had a valid technical basis, but it's worked. Since I've driven in gear I haven't had one single misfire in over 3,000kms. It's less fuel efficient while overtaking, and stop starting but at cruising/motorway speeds it seems the same.


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    #37
    aidanki
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭aidanki


    any update on this ?


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    #38
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    What update are you looking for?
    Please elaborate on your specific need.


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    #39
    aidanki
    Registered Users Posts: 1,262 ✭✭✭aidanki


    reliability is the big one

    v easy convert car to lpg, will it go for 200k miles on it without going through 3 engines is more important

    and of course stopping for no reason on the side of the road

    and how about mpg if your tracking it


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    #40
    lfp
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭lfp


    In very simple terms I've done about 100,000 kms since the lpg conversion. Driving in S gear the engine is perfectly smooth still. An earlier post of mine described a misfire issue I had. I resolved it by simply changing gears.

    Haven't checked the mpg in a long time, but earlier posts of mine had that info. Motorway driving low to mid 30's and sensible driving low to mid 40's. Nothing special and it is down on pure petrol mpg which I tested a few years ago at high 40's. Obviously the price of lpg turns 45mpg into something like 75mpg in money terms. I see no reason why there isn't another 100,000 kms in the engine.

    All in all its worked out, but the misfires gave me a worry. If you have specific questions throw them at me.


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    #41
    cerastes
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    All very interesting, but is there really that much savings converting a hybrid with the additional costs?
    From the figures mentioned it doesn't seem to match what a petrol or diesel might be able to reproduce, it seems a hybrid might be designed for something other than what a modern diesel or even petrol might do better, ie long motorway runs,
    Also, not sure how you get the figures for what your overall/ lpg mpg converts into petrol mpg, if log is cheaper per unit volume but has less energy also? Does it really equate to an increased mpg?
    That said, despite how long the thread is going and not having seen it till now, it's interesting but surprising to me to see someone carry out an LPG conversion.
    I'd consider an LPG conversion of a petrol car or a hybrid but not both😃
    I like the look of the Honda hybrids, both the insight and the saloon civic ( must look into the differences).
    By the by, with stop starting of the combustion engine and use of electric motor, how is the servicing of the engine determined? Does it record hours of use?

    What kind of mpg did the car deliver like to the conversion/what is the normal petrol capacity of the tank and how many miles did you get with it?


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