Commencement notice re domestic shed

rovertom · 02-09-2014 8:48pm #1

I have planning for a domestic shed.
I just recently found out that there were major changes last march and the commencement notice as sent to me with my grant of planning in 2012 is not longer the correct form.
I have had the whole thing returned to me as invalid.
Ive been reading up on this and if I am getting this right, it seems that only domestic extensions under 40 m are free of this system.
I didnt wish to have to employ any architectural professionals to build my shed but its not so clear now whether I can just go ahead.
The shed is 100 m sq and has planning.
Is a domestic shed considered to be a domestic extension? If so, it seems I would need certifiers, designers, supervisors etc.
Can someone give me an idiots guide to what is needed to actual commence a shed now?
Currently adding a little extension to the house and by sheer luck it appears we are exempt from all this.

DOCARCH · 02-09-2014 8:52pm

A 100m.sq. 'domestic' shed...:eek:

Whether domestic or not, pretty sure you will have to employ either a chartered engineer, registered architect of chartered building surveyor, to act as Design and Assigned Certifier, and take it from there.

No way around that (now).

sydthebeat · 02-09-2014 9:00pm

You can thank big Phil Hogan for all the extra costs you now have to incur.

rovertom · 02-09-2014 9:06pm

It is big but its a double garage and turf store.
Lots of similar ones around here.

So all domestic sheds over a certain size now have this level of paper work.
What is the cut off size?

How are all the farmers going to manage. They stick huge sheds all over the area, I dont think they even need planning but now they will need a chartered engineer to get involved. Im surprised this has not had a massive backlash. Farmers usually have the ear of the government and are generally a powerful group.

sydthebeat · 02-09-2014 9:31pm

Good news.

Si496 of 1997 deems a single storey domestic garage as exempt from building regulations.

Therefore you simply need to submit the new "short form" commencement notice and not worry about assigned certifiers or any of that

Gumbo · 02-09-2014 9:49pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Good news.

Si496 of 1997 deems a single storey domestic garage as exempt from building regulations.

Therefore you simply need to submit the new "short form" commencement notice and not worry about assigned certifiers or any of that

But would SI9 of 2014 superseed that SI from 1997?

If exempt from the building regulations then no need for a CN as a CN is only required for works to which the Building Regulations apply.

I would be surprised if a 100Sq M structure could be done with adhering to the new BCAR.

sydthebeat · 02-09-2014 9:57pm

kceire wrote: »

But would SI9 of 2014 superseed that SI from 1997?

No.

Si 496 Is referred to as the "principle regulations" and along with si 9 are to be referred to as the "building control regulations" forthwith.
It's in the opening few lines of si 9

DOCARCH · 02-09-2014 10:38pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Good news.

Si496 of 1997 deems a single storey domestic garage as exempt from building regulations.

What constitutes a domestic garage? 25m.sq.?

I can't see a 100m.sq. garage, whether used for domestic purposes or not, being considered domestic?

My (entire) house is 100m.sq.!

sydthebeat · 02-09-2014 10:59pm

DOCARCH wrote: »

What constitutes a domestic garage? 25m.sq.?

I can't see a 100m.sq. garage, whether used for domestic purposes or not, being considered domestic?

My (entire) house is 100m.sq.!

Down here in the sticks, its not uncommon to have a large domestic garage for fuel store, workshop etc.

Anyway, it's the use that the exemption applies to, and whether it's single story or not.

rovertom · 02-09-2014 11:02pm

Not sure what to do now. It seems kind of up in the air.
Contact council I guess

DOCARCH · 02-09-2014 11:17pm

I had a look at SI 496 which states:

‘‘domestic garage’’ means a building ancillary to a dwelling
which is used, or suitable for use, for the storage of a motor
vehicle or vehicles and is not used for the purposes of any
trade or business.

No sign of any areas being mentioned.

So...Syd is seems to be (probably

) correct.

Worth double checking with your LA (with SI 496 under your arm).

rovertom · 04-09-2014 2:40pm

Well I contacted council. They assure me that once its a domestic shed, single story that its the simple version of the commencement notice thats needed.
So. It appears I need to do this online. No problem but having seen a pdf version of the form on some website this morning, there is still a question re building designer. Should I put the name of the guy who did the planning application as he designed the building or can I put my own name or does it need to be filled in at all.

rovertom · 05-09-2014 11:13am

Can anyone confirm what the situation is regarding designer and builder roles as required for short commencement notice. Can I just put myself down or are qualifications needed. Does Designer refer to structural designer or the person who actually designed the layout etc

Gumbo · 05-09-2014 1:16pm

rovertom wrote: »

Well I contacted council. They assure me that once its a domestic shed, single story that its the simple version of the commencement notice thats needed.
So. It appears I need to do this online. No problem but having seen a pdf version of the form on some website this morning, there is still a question re building designer. Should I put the name of the guy who did the planning application as he designed the building or can I put my own name or does it need to be filled in at all.

Just to confirm, ive checked this out in Dublin City, and the shed would be short form too.

rovertom wrote: »

Can anyone confirm what the situation is regarding designer and builder roles as required for short commencement notice. Can I just put myself down or are qualifications needed. Does Designer refer to structural designer or the person who actually designed the layout etc

In Dublin City, the Building Control Inspectors would like to see the DC be assigned to somebody who is actually over seeing the building works, whether that be an Architect, Engineer or whoever

Basically somebody that they can call and get construction details from.

hesker · 22-09-2014 10:08pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

Good news.

Si496 of 1997 deems a single storey domestic garage as exempt from building regulations.

Therefore you simply need to submit the new "short form" commencement notice and not worry about assigned certifiers or any of that

Just wondering how you reached this conclusion. I had a look at SI496 here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0496.html

(2) For the purposes of this Part, the following buildings are exempted—
snip
(c) a single storey building used as a domestic garage,

I read this to mean the domestic garage is exempt from the Part in question which is PART III FIRE SAFETY CERTIFICATES

Does this not mean the exemption applies to having to get a fire safety cert as opposed to the other requirements of the building regulations.

Not being picky with you. I'm just trying to figure out the requirements of building a small domestic garage in my back garden(garage <25sqm) when I go to discuss with my engineer.

rovertom · 22-09-2014 10:17pm

Just to close this off. Short form was sent in. Put myself down for owner, builder and designer. Accepted the roles as requested. I then waited about 4 days and got email from mayo Co council stating notice was deemed valid.

hesker · 22-09-2014 10:36pm

Good for you but I for one am still not clear on this so would welcome further comments on this from the knowledgeable here and in particular to my query. Thanks.

sydthebeat · 23-09-2014 8:17am

hesker wrote: »

Just wondering how you reached this conclusion. I had a look at SI496 here

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/si/0496.html

(2) For the purposes of this Part, the following buildings are exempted—
snip
(c) a single storey building used as a domestic garage,

I read this to mean the domestic garage is exempt from the Part in question which is PART III FIRE SAFETY CERTIFICATES

Does this not mean the exemption applies to having to get a fire safety cert as opposed to the other requirements of the building regulations.

Not being picky with you. I'm just trying to figure out the requirements of building a small domestic garage in the back of my house (<25sqm) when I go to discuss with my engineer.

Decent question.

SI 9 requirements apply to new dwellings, an extension to a dwelling involving a total floor area greater than
40 square metres (sic) and works to which part III applies.

hesker · 24-09-2014 12:21am

So looking specifically at building a stand alone shed/garage of < 25sqm for which pp is not required

if I read this correctly

- Part III of SI496 does not apply to a single storey building used as a domestic garage

- SI 9 does not apply as it is not a dwelling or extension to dwelling and also because Part III is exempt

So do the building control regulations of 2014 apply or not?

The EPA guide would lead you to believe they definitely do apply
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/Guide_for_Homeowners.html

Does anyone know the actual position

rovertom · 24-09-2014 1:03am

The hsa stuff is a whole other kettle of fish that needs to be followed.

sydthebeat · 24-09-2014 7:36am

hesker wrote: »

So looking specifically at building a stand alone shed/garage of < 25sqm for which pp is not required

if I read this correctly

- Part III of SI496 does not apply to a single storey building used as a domestic garage

- SI 9 does not apply as it is not a dwelling or extension to dwelling and also because Part III is exempt

So do the building control regulations of 2014 apply or not?

The EPA guide would lead you to believe they definitely do apply
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/Guide_for_Homeowners.html

Does anyone know the actual position

The building regulations are completely separate from the health and safety regulations.
I've answered your question already.

If you are inexperienced in these matters engage Someone who isn't.

Markcheese · 24-09-2014 9:02am

rovertom wrote: »

Just to close this off. Short form was sent in. Put myself down for owner, builder and designer. Accepted the roles as requested. I then waited about 4 days and got email from mayo Co council stating notice was deemed valid.

I suppose by sticking yourself down as owner/builder and designer for a shed you can't use the "a big boy did it and ran away " excuse,say if there was a planning issue down the line,
The only thing is ,as the regulations seem to be as clear as mud and open to a fair bit of interpretation can a member of the public be expected to understand them and build to code ??

sydthebeat · 24-09-2014 9:47am

hesker wrote: »

So looking specifically at building a stand alone shed/garage of < 25sqm for which pp is not required

if I read this correctly

- Part III of SI496 does not apply to a single storey building used as a domestic garage

- SI 9 does not apply as it is not a dwelling or extension to dwelling and also because Part III is exempt

So do the building control regulations of 2014 apply or not?

The EPA guide would lead you to believe they definitely do apply
http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Publications_and_Forms/Publications/Construction/Guide_for_Homeowners.html

Does anyone know the actual position

ok, just to break this down some more....

rovertoms build is exempt from having to comply with SI 9 of 2014 and all its madness because its exempt from a FSC under SI 496 of 1997. His build however still has to comply with all other building regulations.

your build as its under 25 sq m, is exempt from ALL building regulations under SI 497 of 1997 see page 22.

both of you however must comply with HSA requirements, and determine your need to appoint a PSDP and PSCS.

Commencement notice re domestic shed

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