*Limerick GAA news/discussion thread*

I came away from Croke Park last August shell shocked. It was a freak performance, a few horrible individual errors were severely punished and the game was over as a contest after 20 minutes.

Yesterday, there were no horrible individual errors, and the margin of defeat was just as bad. It was a Tipp team nowhere near their strongest, and if this Limerick team met a full strength Tipp team at championship level the margin of defeat would be at least 30 points. At times Tipp were very casual, and it was very clear that they were playing well within themselves.

If Justin isn't removed at tomorrow's board meeting we will not win a single game all year, which will mean division 2 hurling next year and relagation to Christy Ring hurling (although I can't see Croke Park actually letting that happen for a finish.) Every Liam McCarthy team (including Antrim, Laois and Carlow) would beat our current panel.

The real losers in all this are the current panel. It can't be good for their confidence and development to be on the receiving end of hiding after hiding. They are doing a great job, and giving all they have but collectively they are just nowhere near the standard required. The likes of Andrew Brennan, Nicky Quaid, David Lynch and Graeme Mulcahy to name a few would learn a lot more from playing and training alongside the likes of Seamus Hickey, Brian Geary, Donal O'Grady, Andrew O'Shaughnessy, Mark Foley and so on. Instead we have the likes of Paudie McNamara and Paul Browne who have only been on the panel two years all of a sudden find themselves being our most experienced players.

The time for pointing fingers and making points and passing judgements is over, regardless of what side your on (be that Justin or players.) Like it or not the players who have withdrawn have every right to refuse to play for Justin, they are amatuers and have no legal obligation to play for any manager (whether or not they have a moral obligation is irrelevant) so if many of our best players are no longer willing to work with our current management team then we have to change manager.

We don't need Justin. We need to be able to pick from our best players. This has gone on too long and I like many others am sick of it all...

D_Red_Army wrote: »

My 2 cents:

Tom Ryan, Eamonn Cregan, Dave Keane, Padjoe Whelahan, Joe McKenna and now Justin McCarthy. The limerick panel managed to find fault with all these managers, whats the common denominator here? I say let the lads who want to hurl for their county do so, and let anybody who doesn't enjoy their retirement.......

Incorrect. The players had no problem with Tom Ryan, he was shafted by the county board.

Eamonn Cregan had 5 years, and in those five years nothing was won and no real progress was being made. There was nothing wrong with parting ways with him and it wasn't player driven.

Dave Keane contributed to his own downfall by favouring players from the 3 in a row over lads who had been on the panel, there were other underlying factors, but ultimately Dave Keane was too, shafted by the board.

Padjoe rocked the boat by making a big deal about dual players and his ultimatum backfired as the players concerned all chose football.

Joe McKenna was in charge for the Cusack Park disaster. Some of the positional selections he made for that match were bizarre to say the least, to the point that he practically lost credibility as a manager as a result.

It's inaccurate and oversimplifying things to say that the panel found fault with all the managers you listed. And in some cases its just completely false.

I'm not saying the players are perfect but there is a level of contempt for them in this county for the last few years and they are often portrayed as ill disciplined prima-donna's. That is unfair and untrue. There are a few bad eggs alright but the players are not the only ones in the wrong.

If you have a problem with the high amount of managers we have had then you have to bear in mind that the county board are largely at fault for that rather than the players. Our two best and most successful managers in the last 15 years were Richie Bennis and Tom Ryan. Both were popular with the players but both were disliked at board level and were shafted as a result.

Another thing, the players do want to hurl for the county, they just don't want to hurl for Justin McCarthy any longer. That is different to not wanting to hurl for their county.

People really shouldn't be taking sides in all this. There is wrong on the side of Justin McCarthy, the players, the board and even the supporters. I have heard some awful nonsense from "supporters" in the last six months acting as if they know it all when most of the time they haven't a clue of whats really going on. A massive culture change is needed in hurling at all levels- players, board, management, supporters. There is a myth that our county has great support, well something that will always stick with me was the disgraceful booing of our team at half time and full time in the qualifier against Offaly in 2008.

Change is needed, that needs to start tomorrow night with Justin McCarthy's removal. Only then can we start to clean up this mess and start over.

Deleted User wrote: »

Them 4 managers have coached more or less the same team over the last 10 years or so. Surely... Surely to god the lack of success has to fall back on the players at some stage?

Your point? Nobody is suggesting that the players are infallible and that it is all 100% the managers' faults. The manager has to get the best out of the players at his disposal and when it is clear that he cannot do that, then he is moved on. Maybe some of those managers have been moved on a bit too soon, but that would be the fault of the county board.

Its almost as if some people feel it is easy to get the most out of a panel of players. Managers like this don't exactly grow on trees...

Deleted User wrote: »

Is there a coach out there good enough for ye? I mean ye would have got probably sick of Richie Bennis eventually too as there's no way any of his teams would have beaten Kilkenny or the current Tipperary team. By his own admission his players were drinking too much after the AI final of 2007.

That's not what he said, he said a few of them were doing that, the vast majority of them were not. And you know that yet you chose not to clarify that in your post.

Deleted User wrote: »

It looks like the current bunch will get their way. McCarthy will go, new management will come in and sooner or later the vicious cycle will begin again.

What vicious cycle? And try to be specific and don't just spout the usual clichéd rubbish and rumours which have been thrown at this bunch of players in recent years.

I sincerely do hope they "get their way", otherwise we will just have to continue sending out an inexperienced team to take more hammerings and do further damage to Limerick hurling.

Deleted User wrote: »

Your forgetting though that Justin dropped 12 or so of these players feeling that he had got all he could out of them.

I'm not forgetting anything. I know exactly why each and every one of those players were dropped and only about four of them could have been considered to have been dropped because Justin thought that "that he had got all he could out of them." I was supportive of dropping them for the reasons that they were dropped but the manner in which it was done was totally unacceptable and unfair. It was asking for trouble and it sure got it.

Deleted User wrote: »

Your contradicting yourself, one sentance you stated 'The manager has to get the best out of the players at his disposal and when it is clear that he cannot do that, then he is moved on.'
Now your suggesting it is not that easy to get the most out of a panel of players, so why should he be moved on? Should he not be given time? Is one year really enough to say that Justin McCarthy cannot get the best out of the limerick players and never will? Should he be allowed to mould his own panel over time?

I'm not contradicting myself. I said the manager has to get the best out of the players at his disposal and if he is not doing that then he is moved on. He should be moved on because he very clearly did not get the best out of the players last year, they got to a semi final alright but that was largely due to a few very favourable draws in the qualifiers. He should also be moved on for his part in the current stand off. How you managed to imagine that I contradicted myself is a mystery.

Deleted User wrote: »

Whether it is 1 player or 20 players that are drinking its sets a negative precedent within the dressing room. these are experienced players who need to set an example. by drinking they showed lack of respect to Richie Bennis and undermined his position.

What's your point? I pointed out that you misquoted what Bennis said and that still stands. Why you went off on a tangent about precedents and undermining Bennis is beyond me. All I did was point out your mistake, which by the way still stands.

Deleted User wrote: »

if players get their way again when will it end? again this is not just limited to limerick but other counties too. it is a vicious cycle. more and more managers are no longer in control. player power is not good for the game.

Again? What exactly do you mean by that? Up to now the players in Limerick have never gotten a manager removed. The managers have either stepped down or the board have removed them. Player power is a part of the game now and it has been for a while now.

Deleted User wrote: »

your forgetting you got a hammering with the players that you hope 'get their way' back in august. limerick haven't exactly been immune to hammerings the last 4 years with all due respect. what benefit will it do to limerick hurling getting these players back?

Keep your condescending and false assumptions to yourself because I can assure you I wont forget that day for as long as I follow hurling, I was there. What benefit will it be to get these players back?

Ok, well firstly we would have a fighting chance of not getting relegated from the league this season.
Then, we would not get relegated from the Liam McCarthy Cup this year.
The younger players on the current panel would learn more from training and playing alongside the likes of Seamus Hickey, Brian Geary, Donal O'Grady, O'Shaughnessy and so on.
The players on the current panel would be spared of the prospect of coming out of every game they play on the wrong side of a hammering.
Limerick hurling would be competitive.

Are you saying that your answer to limerick not being immune to hammerings is to replace them with a team which is absolutely 100% guaranteed to take a hammering every time they line out?! You cannot be serious.

We are not better off without all of these players, the results in the league are proving that.