Retina MacBook Pro - waiting for Broadwell?

Sad Professor · 26-06-2013 10:07am #1

Presumedly the Haswell MacBook Pros will arrive in the Autumn alongside 10.9. However I'm of two minds about whether to go for Haswell or wait for Broadwell. While Haswell will bring great battery life, it might be worth waiting for Broadwell for the CPU/GPU improvements. Plus the Retinas will have probably dropped even more in price by then.

Any thoughts?

Colonel Panic · 26-06-2013 10:27am

It depends on how long you can wait. Are you thinking a 13" with an integrated GPU only? If they come with Iris Pro (and they should), then I don't think I'd bother waiting unless I didn't really need a new machine.

The differences may show up on benchmarks, but they are negligible in real-world use.

jester77 · 26-06-2013 10:42am

Sad Professor wrote: »

Presumedly the Haswell MacBook Pros will arrive in the Autumn alongside 10.9. However I'm of two minds about whether to go for Haswell or wait for Broadwell. While Haswell will bring great battery life, it might be worth waiting for Broadwell for the CPU/GPU improvements. Plus the Retinas will have probably dropped even more in price by then.

Any thoughts?

Well, this is how my logic works. Do you really need a new mbp right now? I have a first ed. aluminium mbp from 2008 with an upgraded ssd. Does it do everything I need? Yes. Is there anything that it doesn't do that a new mbp could give me? Not really. I would be getting a faster & lighter machine with better battery and a nice screen but that won't make much of a difference. My code would probably compile faster but I can hold out another year.

Sad Professor · 26-06-2013 11:24am

There's no chance of me getting one now. This is really about planning my next upgrade, which would be in January at the earliest. My 2009 MBP is serving me well, but it's next on Apple's legacy support chopping block. Assuming there are no issues with Mavericks, and Broadwell arrives before 10.10, I can easily wait another year.

If money weren't an issue I'd be going for the 15-inch rMBP. But they are way too expensive at the moment. (Although the longer I wait the more this will change.) I'm not interested in the current 13-inch Retina due to the poor integrated graphics - which may or may not still be an issue in the next refresh.

Colonel Panic, how likely is the 13-inch Haswell to have Iris Pro? I thought I read somewhere that it was more likely in the 15-inch. This is one of the reasons why I'm considering waiting for Broadwell.

Colonel Panic · 26-06-2013 2:08pm

I haven't heard any rumours about Iris Pro being likely in the 13" MPB.

I'm just going by the fact that it won't have a dedicated GPU like the 15" version does at present and I don't necessarily think the HD 5000 will be much better with a retina screen compared to the HD 4000. This is all just anecdotal stuff on my part though.

If the refreshed 13" didn't come with Iris Pro, at least in some BTO fashion, I would definitely wait for Broadwell if possible.

Sad Professor · 26-06-2013 2:56pm

I think the problem is that Iris Pro only comes with quad-core Haswell. Putting a quad-core into the 13-inch could result in a price increase at a time when Apple are trying to make the machine cheaper. So they may just slap in a dual-core Haswell with regular Iris (minus the performance benefits of Iris Pro) and wait for Broadwell to do something about the graphics.

Apple probably don't have a lot of motivation to put a quad-core in the 13-inch. The 15-inch has always had a huge performance advantage over the 13-inch. It helps differentiate them, forcing Pro users to get the 15-inch.

Colonel Panic · 26-06-2013 3:14pm

That's a good point. I was thinking myself that Apple would bump the 13" Pro to quad core, at least as a built to order option to give the machine more value over the MBA.

I haven't compared the power usage of a mobile 2 core Ivy Bridge i5 and a 4 core Haswell i5 to know if there is scope to do it without slaying battery usage. And that is assuming that Apple aren't going to want to chase crazy battery times with the 13" Pro. To me, that doesn't make sense, but that machine has always been the middle child of Apple's notebooks hasn't it?

EDIT: I think you're right about a quad core i5 not being likely. There isn't as big a drop in power consumption with that range compared to the dual core versions.

Sad Professor · 26-06-2013 3:32pm

Yeah the 13-inch claim to "Pro" status has always been rather questionable, mainly due to graphics. I was actually predicting its demise pre-Retina. I figured Apple would let the Air fill its place, going back to a more simplified notebook line-up. But the non-Retina 13-inch is such big seller I guess that wasn't an option.

One theory I've read is that Apple made the 13-inch Retina thicker than the 15-inch because they knew they'd be putting a quad-core in there eventually. But given the recent rumours about them making it thinner in the next refresh (as thin as the 15-inch), I reckon they may just squander Haswell's battery savings on a slimmer design.

_Redzer_ · 05-07-2014 5:57pm

Well one year on and broadwell still hasn't shipped, and neither does the 13" have Iris Pro, SP

I've heard that there are more delays and that they only thing shopping this year are the Y chips for fanless computers.

Don't know at this stage whether to bite the bullet and avail of the back to school offer or wait a few more months. I've this money set aside for well over a year now, and I've been waiting for better integrated graphics to make the plunge.

Sad Professor · 05-07-2014 6:38pm

We’re at the point now where I think you’d be mad not wait. The Back to School promo doesn’t end until early September. The Boardwell situation should be clearer by then.

I’m waiting until October regardless as I want to see the long rumoured 12-inch MBA. I’d imagine GPU/Retina concerns will put me off it regardless, but I’m still curious to see the design.

Elessar · 05-07-2014 6:58pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Well one year on and broadwell still hasn't shipped, and neither does the 13" have Iris Pro, SP

I've heard that there are more delays and that they only thing shopping this year are the Y chips for fanless computers.

Don't know at this stage whether to bite the bullet and avail of the back to school offer or wait a few more months. I've this money set aside for well over a year now, and I've been waiting for better integrated graphics to make the plunge.

I'm in the exact same boat. My 2010 MBP as my main computer just doesn't cut it anymore, especially for college (java development, virtual machines, games etc) and I would buy tomorrow if I could. But I think we're better off waiting as there is no point spending €€€ on year old hardware. Realistically I think we are looking at Feb/March before Broadwell Core-i processors hit!

_Redzer_ · 05-07-2014 7:17pm

I will wait reluctantly. I think I'm over a year waiting patiently for this, a few more months won't kill me, but I definitely won't be waiting until Jan/Feb when broadwell is to ship.. supposedly.

I was gonna keep the rMPA in mind too, but like the first gen iPad or MBP, it's better to wait until the second or third gen before buying.

I've two ideas of what they'll do. They're gonna kill the non-retina macbook this year, so that'll leave a gap the rMBP could fill and become cheaper, or the rMPA could fill it, possibly meaning that the rMBP might retain its current price but come with 8GB RAM as standard -maybe 256GB SSD, too.
All speculation of course.

Blazer · 06-07-2014 7:57am

I bought the 13" a few weeks back as no way were I waiting until Jan/Feb for one. The current one is still a fantastic machine and if it was a choice between waiting till Feb or getting one now you know what I've picked

Extremely happy with the machine.

Sad Professor · 06-07-2014 3:48pm

If Broadwell is delayed I think Apple will go ahead with a Haswell refresh in September/October. I definitely don't see them waiting until February/god knows when. But who knows.

_Redzer_ · 06-07-2014 4:26pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

If Broadwell is delayed I think Apple will go ahead with a Haswell refresh in September/October. I definitely don't see them waiting until February/god knows when. But who knows.

Seems crazy to wait until October if it's just a Haswell refresh. If Broadwell is delayed that late, I'd buy one now if they refresh the current chips and lower the price, like they did with the Air.

The fact that they'd probably wait until after the back to school promotion before the refresh, then update to the Broadwell chips only a few months later after that (when we've been waiting months and months for an update, even a year, potentially) is annoying and very greedy of them, tbh.

Elessar · 06-07-2014 4:34pm

Indeed, but I wouldn't put it past Apple.

I've been sitting on the cash for a new MBP since the start of the year and I need to upgrade this year. Another 8 month wait for Broadwell would be a killer. If the Haswell chips get a speed bump and Apple adopts the new Maxwell architecture from nVidia for its GPUs this year, I think I'll make the jump. If you can wait for Broadwell, you might as well wait for later in 2015 when Skylake hits as that will be the big changer (DDR4, TB3 etc.). You could be waiting forever.

Sad Professor · 06-07-2014 4:44pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

Seems crazy to wait until October if it's just a Haswell refresh. If Broadwell is delayed that late, I'd buy one now if they refresh the current chips and lower the price, like they did with the Air.

The fact that they'd probably wait until after the back to school promotion before the refresh, then update to the Broadwell chips only a few months later after that (when we've been waiting months and months for an update, even a year, potentially) is annoying and very greedy of them, tbh.

It won't just be a Haswell refresh. It'll be a price drop and a possible RAM/SSD bump also, as you said. That's worth waiting for, rather than paying full price for a year old machine. Apple price model doesn't allow them to drop prices mid cycle. And they've obviously got a lot of existing inventory to clear out.

_Redzer_ · 06-07-2014 4:45pm

Elessar wrote: »

Indeed, but I wouldn't put it past Apple.

I've been sitting on the cash for a new MBP since the start of the year and I need to upgrade this year. Another 8 month wait for Broadwell would be a killer. If the Haswell chips get a speed bump and Apple adopts the new Maxwell architecture from nVidia for its GPUs this year, I think I'll make the jump. If you can wait for Broadwell, you might as well wait for later in 2015 when Skylake hits as that will be the big changer (DDR4, TB3 etc.). You could be waiting forever.

That strategy is very "Apple", in fairness.

I'd be in the exact same boat. I'm ok with the CPU, as from what I gather Broadwell is mainly power efficiency and GPU performance, which is what I what. I want the lag issues to firmly get sorted with the 13" model, and the all day battery of the 13" Air. That would be fantastic, and I'd be very happy with that. I'm just not going to pay ridiculous money now for 2013 hardware, I'll wait a bit more.

I get that it's not Apple's fault for the chip delay, but they're very much in the know with what's going on with Broadwell at Intel, so they'd have a very firm idea if they can incorporate them into their line up this year. By August they'd have to have the chips well into production to make an October/November launch, and if they know by then they can't make a Broadwell MBP happen, yet wait until October for a Haswell refresh anyway, I'll be very annoyed.

In fairness, the Air got its refresh in April. There was nothing stopping them refreshing the MBPros to tie us over between then and now.

_Redzer_ · 06-07-2014 4:50pm

Sad Professor wrote: »

It won't just be a Haswell refresh. It'll be a price drop and a possible RAM/SSD bump also, as you said. That's worth waiting for, rather than paying full price for a year old machine. Apple price model doesn't allow them to drop prices mid cycle. And they've obviously got a lot of existing inventory to clear out.

Absolutely, that's a trade-off I can get behind, in fairness.

If I was able to get a lot more value for money and an 8GB model with 256 SDD for the entry price, that'd offset the benefits of Broadwell like the all day battery and GPU boost that'll come with it -as much as I'd like them, I can't wait until Feb, and that would seem like a fair trade-off for me.

I'd be doubly happy if this came during the back to school promotion, but that's unlikely, as much as they should do it.

Sad Professor · 06-07-2014 5:30pm

It’s not unheard of for Apple to refresh their MacBook line-up during the Back to School promotion. My mid-2009 MBP was released a couple of weeks into that year’s promo. BTS was always more about clearing out iPods than Macs, so I wouldn’t completely rule it out a refresh between now and September, especially if Broadwell is delayed.

However it seems very unlikely given the lack of processor releases. The Retina is currently overdue a refresh and under normal circumstances I’d be expecting it any day now, Broadwell be damned. The only reason for the October estimates is because Intel hasn’t been able to deliver the goods. But BTS ends on September 9 and assuming Apple is first in line for these Q4 Haswell chips, I guess we could see a refresh in early or mid September.

_Redzer_ · 06-07-2014 5:49pm

I'm in two minds about this.

On one hand, Apple could be greedy and skip the BTS promotion and release the Haswell refresh later on after September. I don't think they would do it, but it wouldn't shock me if they did either.

On the other hand, if we don't get any refresh between now and September/October, it leads me to believe that they will have the Broadwell chips. That'd be a logical thing for them to wait out on.

If the latter is true, and the rumours are true about Broadwell being very pushed back, that could mean a November or later release, which is very late for me who needs one in September or October at the most.

I would still wait it out, but it'd be pushing it.

Sad Professor · 06-07-2014 5:58pm

I’m not really up on current processors, but I think part of the problem is that Apple have nothing else to put to the MBPs at the moment and have to wait until the Autumn regardless, be it for Broadwell or refreshed Haswells. This is why no one is expecting a refresh any sooner.

I’m not sure about the future of the Apple-Intel partnership. A couple more years of this and we’ll be back to the Motorola/IBM days.

Elessar · 06-07-2014 6:05pm

I bet apple will eventually leverage their mobile CPU expertise and start building their own notebook and maybe desktop CPUs. That will be a while away yet though I imagine.

Another thing to consider is the release of Yosemite. Nothing better to showcase a new OS release than a new MacBook Pro model.

_Redzer_ · 06-07-2014 6:46pm

As far as rumours go, I don't think they've anything to showcase in the MBP except for a trackpad without a button anyway, so a Haswell refresh where they dedicate a part of a presentation to seems very unnecessary.

If they don't get Broadwell this year, they should just make a quiet refresh now and update quietly to Broadwell in Q1 when it will definitely be out.

I think with Skylake due the end of 2015, they could possibly make them thinner and a lot more efficient and powerful. That'd warrant a presentation.

FourFourRED · 06-07-2014 9:48pm

_Redzer_ wrote: »

I'm in two minds about this.

On one hand, Apple could be greedy and skip the BTS promotion and release the Haswell refresh later on after September. I don't think they would do it, but it wouldn't shock me if they did either.

Didn't they do that last year? New macs came after the BTS ended.

_Redzer_ · 06-07-2014 10:23pm

Aodhagan wrote: »

Didn't they do that last year? New macs came after the BTS ended.

You're right, but they added new chips then and moved from Ivy Bridge to Haswell.
If all they did was give a tiny spec bump to the current Haswell chips, then I'd be pissed off because that's not the time to do it, and it'd be underhanded, especially with Broadwell guaranteed to arrive in Q1 at the latest, meaning that they'd be updating to much better types of chips just a few months later having already waited a whole year in 2014 to get a marginal upgrade in the form of a Haswell refresh.

miralize · 07-07-2014 8:32pm

If the Broadwell chips arent ready by November, I'd venture a guess that we wont see new ones until March.

_Redzer_ · 07-07-2014 8:39pm

miralize wrote: »

If the Broadwell chips arent ready by November, I'd venture a guess that we wont see new ones until March.

They need to be ready and in production by August, September at the latest to make a late October/November launch.

If they're not ready I would expect Apple to do a refresh similar to what they did with the MBA. They have the inside track with Broadwell, as do all the big manufacturers, so by this month, if not already sooner, they will know if they can make it or not and should discount the MBPs in the coming weeks.

_Redzer_ · 09-07-2014 4:01pm

No Broadwell MBPs this year, they're officially delayed.

Great job, Intel.

smurfjed · 22-11-2014 10:11pm

I have a 2011 MB Pro, I was waiting for the Broadwell chip before getting a replacement, but as that is now delayed, can i ask opinions on the latest version available in the USA? Will i see a significant difference over the 2011 ?

I'm heading to Delaware in the USA, its a tax free state, so the prices are good.

huggs2 · 05-01-2015 6:10pm

http://www.engadget.com/2015/01/05/intel-broadwell/
I too have been waiting for a new update for the Macbook pro retina (15")Are we likely to get them now within 6 months?

Retina MacBook Pro - waiting for Broadwell?

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