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Proven Bulls

  • 23-04-2014 3:31pm
    #1
    dungfly
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭


    Ideally I want to use bulls that are both daughter proven (most importantly) & Genomic testes bulls. I notice from the HerdPlus bull search that how a bull is proven is not stated. How can I search/filter for daughter proven bulls?

    eg O-Man
    http://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/229599768
    Note: Genotyped

    What does this "Genotyped" mean in lay man terms?

    eg HMY
    http://webapp.icbf.com/bull-search/view/393048350
    Note: The genetic evaluation data for this animal includes a Genomic component.

    Any other tips for searching for bulls?


Comments

  • #2
    onyerbikepat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    dungfly wrote: »
    .... I notice from the HerdPlus bull search that how a bull is proven is not stated...
    "Proven" is defined by ICBF as follows;

    A bull can only realistically be called proven on any trait once he goes above 90% reliability on that trait
    http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332


  • #3
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    genptyped means that ICBF have a genetic sample of the bull and is in the system.

    a bull might have first crop daughters milking but A) not enough of them to rely on it completly for the proof or B) the fertility proof is still genomic because not enough cow have calved a second time to have a reliable fertility proof


  • #4
    Milked out
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,433 ✭✭✭Milked out


    If your using genomic sires use a minimum of 5 as a team, this is supposd to counter the lack of reliabilty, and perhaps pick two or three proven bulls to improve specific traits on certain cows with which you need a better chance of sucess


  • #5
    dungfly
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭dungfly


    How do you search via proven bulls vrs genomic bulls on HerdPlus?


  • #6
    dungfly
    Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭dungfly


    onyerbikepat wrote: »
    "Proven" is defined by ICBF as follows;

    A bull can only realistically be called proven on any trait once he goes above 90% reliability on that trait
    http://www.icbf.com/?p=1332


    Does this mean that if a bull has an overall EBI of 240 with a reliability of 95%, then he is daughter proven? How do I know if there is a genomic weighing to the reliability and its impact?


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  • #7
    Future Farmer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 430 ✭✭Future Farmer


    But if you use only daughter proven sires then you are missing out on the best new bulls.

    Use proven easy calving on your heifers & use the best new bulls on your cows, otherwise it'll take you longer to get where you want to be, no?


  • #8
    Gillespy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭Gillespy


    dungfly wrote: »
    How do you search via proven bulls vrs genomic bulls on HerdPlus?
    You see 'Proof Source' after you run the Trait Selector? click on that to arrange them either GS(genomic) or DP-Int/DP-Ire(daughter proof international or Irish). Play around with it.


  • #9
    farmer lad
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭farmer lad


    what bulls are lads using/thinking of using in their autumn calvers?


  • #10
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭stanflt


    farmer lad wrote: »
    what bulls are lads using/thinking of using in their autumn calvers?


    Got a bull bred by a fellow boardsie here today


  • #11
    farmer lad
    Registered Users Posts: 68 ✭✭farmer lad


    stanflt wrote: »
    Got a bull bred by a fellow boardsie here today

    What kind of breeding behind him?


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  • #12
    ellewood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭ellewood


    stanflt wrote: »
    Got a bull bred by a fellow boardsie here today

    Ahh fair play to charliebull:D


  • #13
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    probably the easiest way to check if they have a daughter proof is to click on "milk" (just under where is says genotyped) and that will tell you haw many milk recorded daughters he has.

    To me though proven bulls arepast their prime at this stage. I dont get why lads are still afraid of genomics at this stage


  • #14
    limo_100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭limo_100


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    probably the easiest way to check if they have a daughter proof is to click on "milk" (just under where is says genotyped) and that will tell you haw many milk recorded daughters he has.

    To me though proven bulls arepast their prime at this stage. I dont get why lads are still afraid of genomics at this stage

    HOW IS GkA bogman i have a second calver calving to him at the end of the month??


  • #15
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    Using
    Yad
    PHC
    PCZ
    IGG
    NPY


  • #16
    bogman_bass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,078 ✭✭✭bogman_bass


    limo_100 wrote: »
    HOW IS GkA bogman i have a second calver calving to him at the end of the month??

    He's grand. how's yerself?biggrin.png

    First few calves seem to be nice. Nice toplines on them.


  • #17
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭stanflt


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Using
    Yad
    PHC
    PCZ
    IGG
    NPY


    What happened to the lic straws you were going to order!!!


  • #18
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    6 cows signed up with pg this am to test their bull calves if they have them.in calf to ksk,jfk abo and hzb.fingers crossed one of them makes the cut ,although I'd happily take heifer calves


  • #19
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    stanflt wrote: »
    What happened to the lic straws you were going to order!!!

    Next yr going to re do ai course and see ifI can get a tank


  • #20
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    6 cows signed up with pg this am to test their bull calves if they have them.in calf to ksk,jfk abo and hzb.fingers crossed one of them makes the cut ,although I'd happily take heifer calves

    Fair play could get a nice wallet full if they make the cut


  • #21
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Fair play could get a nice wallet full if they make the cut

    13 tested last spring none made the cut including one 358 ebi bull and 3 others over 300.real long shot to get a bull into an Ai station


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  • #22
    stanflt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭stanflt


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    6 cows signed up with pg this am to test their bull calves if they have them.in calf to ksk,jfk abo and hzb.fingers crossed one of them makes the cut ,although I'd happily take heifer calves



    I thought that you'd have more or is the milk sub index too low

    Had 2 pages dropped in yesterday for signature but not expecting anything


  • #23
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    stanflt wrote: »
    I thought that you'd have more or is the milk sub index too low

    Had 2 pages dropped in yesterday for signature but not expecting anything

    Yep milk sub index too low,when picking Bulls this year I did it on a cow by cow basis rather than just using sure advice.average milk kg of bulls used was +168 kg and 32 kg solids so am expecting much better things from this years calves.average milk kg for herd has dropped from 138 2 years ago to 124.i need to get this somewhere between 150 and 180 kg as well as maintaining solids and fertility.some interesting Bulls in new pg catalagoue,like the look of hzb,yad,PCz,zfg,gxc


  • #24
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    Yep milk sub index too low,when picking Bulls this year I did it on a cow by cow basis rather than just using sure advice.average milk kg of bulls used was +168 kg and 32 kg solids so am expecting much better things from this years calves.average milk kg for herd has dropped from 138 2 years ago to 124.i need to get this somewhere between 150 and 180 kg as well as maintaining solids and fertility.some interesting Bulls in new pg catalagoue,like the look of hzb,yad,PCz,zfg,gxc
    Im choosing purly on solids and high fert. Get my fert right and 6 wk cakving and ill be on thr pigs back


  • #25
    mahoney_j
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,339 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Greengrass1 wrote: »
    Im choosing purly on solids and high fert. Get my fert right and 6 wk cakving and ill be on thr pigs back

    That's the beauty of ebi ,Bulls there for everyone.dont ignore milk though gg,your fertility is fairly good as it is I reckon ,your problems I reckon are more mineral related and your winter diet probably needs improvement.you should still I reckon be aiming for Bulls that are + 100 kg for milk as well as fertility and solids.theres loads of them there.hol and x bred


  • #26
    Greengrass1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,493 ✭✭✭Greengrass1


    mahoney_j wrote: »
    That's the beauty of ebi ,Bulls there for everyone.dont ignore milk though gg,your fertility is fairly good as it is I reckon ,your problems I reckon are more mineral related and your winter diet probably needs improvement.you should still I reckon be aiming for Bulls that are + 100 kg for milk as well as fertility and solids.theres loads of them there.hol and x bred
    Loads of milk in the herd now heading more for 6000l av compared to the 5500l we were. 520kgs sold per cow last yr


  • #27
    limo_100
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,549 ✭✭✭limo_100


    bogman_bass wrote: »
    He's grand. how's yerself?biggrin.png

    First few calves seem to be nice. Nice toplines on them.

    O thats nice hopefully he'll come and visit his offspring. Whats he like for calving, hes the best looking bull in the book anyway. Would the calves be more like cf85 or lgl


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