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The Origin of Specious Nonsense. Twelve years on. Still going. Answer soon.

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    #2402
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    if pi had a finite amount of digits, or repeated a finite set of digits, then that would strongly suggest this universe is a simulation.

    Nope, it's an irrational number so cannot be represented as a ratio of integers, and therefore can't be represented as a repeating or finite decimal number either.

    It's also a transcendental number but that's getting very close to the edge of my mathematical understanding :)

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #2403
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A creationist finds a 60 million year old fossil by mistake.

    Red faces all 'round.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/05/28/whoops-a-creationist-museum-supporter-stumbled-upon-a-major-fossil-find/?tid=sm_fb


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    #2404
    Vivisectus
    Registered Users Posts: 807 ✭✭✭Vivisectus


    Bless his little creationist heart for properly letting people know about them and spotting them though :) fair play to that guy. I hope they name the new fish species after him.


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    #2405
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Well surely a god who can create the world 'n' all can also create a fossil that gives every appearance of being sixty million years old.

    That's me convinced... :pac:

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #2406
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    The Republicans are trying to sneak creationism in by the back door again, under the guise of "academic freedom".


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    #2407
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    A few months late, but a group comprising of just over one hundred Presbyterian churches have voted to accept evolution:

    http://www.theclergyletterproject.org/pdf/cascades2016.pdf


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    #2408
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    robindch wrote: »
    A few months late, but a group comprising of just over one hundred Presbyterian churches have voted to accept evolution:

    http://www.theclergyletterproject.org/pdf/cascades2016.pdf

    A few centuries late, no?


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    #2409
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Say what you want about those Presbyterians but they're on the cutting edge:D


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    #2410
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Say what you want about those Presbyterians but they're on the cutting edge
    Makes a pleasant change to see the religious on the cutting edge of science, instead of scientists being on the cutting edge, say, of the inquisition.


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    #2411
    oldrnwisr
    Registered Users Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭oldrnwisr


    Response to post in Christmas thread per A&A Feedback thread:
    Absolam wrote: »
    Well... the assertion wasn't that we could have a celebration at the end of December in the absence of Christianity. That we could needs no evidence, anything is possible after all. The assertion that without Christianity, we would have a holiday at this time anyway isn't credible because as Peregrinus pointed out, there's no reason to believe any of the other solstice festivals would have survived in the absence of Christianity.

    Except that there is. We already have three examples from my previous post of winter solstice festivals which have survived even in the absence of Christianity (Soyaluna, Dongzhi and Yalda). In each of these cases, there is no Christian influence on the celebration of the holiday. Also in each of these cases, we have a different religious framework surrounding the festival. Yalda is a Zoroastrian festival more analogous to the Celtic festival of Halloween, a belief that the solstice was a liminal time when the boundaries between worlds were weak. Soyaluna is part of the Hopi cycle of life and is tied to their nature based mythology. Dongzhi is an astronomical festival and largely devoid of a religious influence.

    So what we do have is evidence of modern extant solstice festivals being celebrated in the absence of Christianity. What we don't have are any examples of pagan festivals which have died out, why they died out and why their death is comparable to the Celtic solstice festival. We know that the solstice festival was celebrated in pre-Christian Ireland so we need persuasive arguments as to why such a festival would just stop being celebrated if left to its own devices.

    Absolam wrote: »
    Such as does remain of them remains because of the way Christianity incorporated and spread those traditions as it's own, whether it was yule logs, gift giving, or decorated trees.

    Well, not entirely. Firstly, gift giving isn't necessarily something which Christianity co-opted. While gift giving was part of Saturnalia which Christmas largely replaced, gift giving is also specifically mentioned in the Biblical narrative in Matthew 2:11.
    Secondly, most pre-Christian Christmas traditions such as Yule logs, holly and ivy or other syncretised traditions such as the Easter bunny rarely get incorporated into the Christmas narrative, they just get glossed over.

    Absolam wrote: »
    The very fact that we observe anything like a solstice festival so long past the need to be aware of it is attributable to Christianity; there's nothing to show that any other religious observance would have survived so universally, and the obvious fact is they didn't.

    Except that all of the major pre-Christian Celtic festivals survived into the 20th century. In fact, the original Celtic feast of Samhain survives intact to the present day as Halloween. I have explained this in more detail on the original thread.

    Absolam wrote: »
    But you're not providing anything to support your 'yes', are you? That Christianity was a successfully syncretic religion doesn't mean any other would have been.

    Except that exclusivist or non-syncretic religions don't actually last very long. There are no modern examples of exclusivist religions which aren't also recent. The religions of the cultures in the surrounding regions were syncretic. Roman mythology, Judaism and even some sects of Islam (e.g. Sufism) are all syncretic. Its unlikely that any invading religion which isn't syncretic would be successful in converting a significant number of adherents as explained in my previous post.


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    #2412
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Thanks oldrnwisr, I appreciate the effort. I had toyed with the idea of dragging posts from other threads into this one to continue discussions, but since it would just turn this one into a mish mash of part discussions of subjects unrelated to the thread, I've decided against it. Perhaps I'll have the opportunity to reply to your thoughts at a later date.


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    #2413
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    Does anyone think that the fact that 7,750 applications to the Catholic schools who responded to the survey did not result in an enrolment is an interesting statistic?

    I'd say it indicates that a lot of parents are shopping around Catholic schools for places for their children, and given that only 96 places were refused on the basis that applicants weren't Catholic, it seems extraordinarily unlikely that this is the main reason for that level of multiple applications. The CPSMA appears to think this is due to insufficient school places overall, or at least in Catholic schools. Perhaps a secular State that provides for more school places would be best for religious and atheist citizens in this instance?


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    #2414
    Absolam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,913 ✭✭✭Absolam


    By the sounds of it then, Michael would be well advised (though I think he already does) to have a good read of A&A; the styles, at least, of argumentation you are ascribing to his opponent are well in evidence on many of the threads.

    On the other hand I think Michael is well experienced in putting across his viewpoint in a calm and sensible fashion. I think he'd be better served staying true to his own points and format than changing to counter someone else.


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    #2415
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    ^^^ Message moved from Michael Nugent vs WC thread.


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    #2416
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    A creationist finds a 60 million year old fossil by mistake.

    Red faces all 'round.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2015/05/28/whoops-a-creationist-museum-supporter-stumbled-upon-a-major-fossil-find/?tid=sm_fb
    ... a 60 million (evolutionist) year old fossil fish ... that ... eh ... em ... looks remarkably like the fish that my wife cooked for dinner today !!!:)

    ... I think it's actually a Redear Sunfish ... that got caught up in the Flood of Noah!!!:)

    Were the red faces in empathy with the red ears of the sunfish??:pac::):eek:

    redearsun.jpg

    ... another 'fishy story' ... like the (more 'primitive' looking) Coelacanth ... that was supposed to have gone extinct over 65 million years ago ... but turned up alive and well in 1938!!!

    The sunfish fossil is only a 'baby' in terms of the Evolutionist timeline ... the Coelacanth is supposedly around for over 360 million years ... but hasn't changed a bit ... while we supposedly 'evolved' from something that looked like a rat in 200 million (evolutionist) years!!!

    x-first-mammals.jpg

    Quote:-
    "Coelacanths (seel-a-canths) were once known only from fossils and were thought to have gone extinct approximately 65 million years ago (mya), during the great extinction in which the dinosaurs disappeared. The most recent fossil record dates from about 80 mya but the earliest records date back as far as approximately 360 mya."

    BTW, 'the great extinction' referred to above ... was the Flood.:)

    http://vertebrates.si.edu/fishes/coelacanth/coelacanth_wider.html


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    #2417
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    The sunfish fossil is only a 'baby' in terms of the Evolutionist timeline ... the Coelacanth is supposedly around for over 360 million years ... but hasn't changed a bit ... while we were supposedly evolving from something that looked like a rat!!!

    Can't you just take a basic class on evolution instead of embarrassing yourself by posting idiotic drivel like the above?


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    #2418
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Can't you just take a basic class on evolution instead of embarrassing yourself by posting idiotic drivel like the above?
    I could give the classes on 'evolution' ... as I'm an Evolutionary Biologist ... amongst other things !!!:):D


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    #2419
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    If you were an evolutionary biologist, you'd actually understand how evolution works instead of inanely ****posting.


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    #2420
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    If you were an evolutionary biologist, you'd actually understand how evolution works instead of inanely ****posting.
    I know exactly how 'Evolution' works ... and it is unable to turn ponkind into mankind ... or rats into radiologists ... or frogs into princes ... that only happens in fairytales !!:)


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    #2421
    Pherekydes
    Registered Users Posts: 16,115 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes


    J C wrote: »
    I could give the classes on 'evolution' ... as I'm an Evolutionary Biologist

    Pre-schoolers would learn nothing...


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    #2422
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Pherekydes wrote: »
    Pre-schoolers would learn nothing...
    ... some of the post-schoolers don't seem to want to learn anything either !!:)

    Such is life.


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    #2423
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    Oh the irony.


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    #2424
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    Oh the irony.
    Can you not see that the fossil record is a record of death (and instantaneous catastrophically caused death at that). It isn't a record of the suppposed 'development' of life on Earth.
    The so called Geological Column is largely a record of the order of death of different organisms (in diffferent ecological niches) during Noah's Flood.


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    #2425
    PopePalpatine
    Registered Users Posts: 11,844 ✭✭✭✭PopePalpatine


    It must be so convenient that God killed off primitive chordates before the primitive amphibians, the primitive amphibians before the primitive reptiles, the primitive reptiles before the primitive dinosaurs, the primitive dinosaurs before the primitive birds, the primitive birds before the primitive primates etc. :rolleyes:


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    #2426
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    J C wrote: »
    Can you not see that the fossil record is a record of death
    yes, its major flaw is that it does not contain records of immortal lifeforms.


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    #2427
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    PopePalpatine wrote: »
    It must be so convenient that God killed off primitive chordates before the primitive amphibians, the primitive amphibians before the primitive reptiles, the primitive reptiles before the primitive dinosaurs, the primitive dinosaurs before the primitive birds, the primitive birds before the primitive primates etc. :rolleyes:
    ... Plenty of 'primitive' examples of all life-forms survived the Flood ... and many members of current living species were fossilised in the Flood ... the so-called 'living fossils'.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_fossil


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    #2428
    looksee
    Registered Users Posts: 28,108 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    Just on the subject of the flood for a minute JC, the entire earth flooded, right? and then the water receded? Where did all the extra water come from and where did it go?


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    #2429
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,478 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i think the 'Answer soon' in the thread title may be a bit premature.


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    #2430
    Bristolscale7
    Registered Users Posts: 541 ✭✭✭Bristolscale7


    looksee wrote: »
    Just on the subject of the flood for a minute JC, the entire earth flooded, right? and then the water receded? Where did all the extra water come from and where did it go?

    LY6245w.jpg


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    #2431
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,022 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It was teleported to Mars. Duh.

    Life ain't always empty.



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