Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

Joeseph Balls · 30-08-2015 3:13pm

AMKC wrote: »

It has been reported Renault are going to buy 65% of the Lotus team. Its just down to Lotus shareholders now.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/29/renault-buys-lotus-f1-team/

I have also heard a rumour that Paster Maldonado will go to Force India and Sergio Perez to Renault.
Not sure Force India would be too happy about that.

This has been connected with the rumour that Red Bull will get a Mercedes engine.

We should all hear a lot more about all this during the next week.

I thought Mercedes and Ferrari openly said they would not be supplying red bull with engines

Harika · 30-08-2015 5:02pm

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

I thought Mercedes and Ferrari openly said they would not be supplying red bull with engines

Nope both said they had to consider it, if RedBull asks and the Renault Situation has been resolved.

mickdw · 30-08-2015 5:41pm

Spudman_20000 wrote: »

That's being very generous to Rosberg. You make your own luck. If he fitted the mediums, he would never had been in a position to be caught by Ricciardo in the first place. Instead he made a very conservative call to put on a set of hards.

Nico bottled that race, could have closed the gap to a couple of points.

It's the difference between champions and nearly men.

I don't see how he bottled it. It was calculated precaution. He was only worried about lewis, it was well ahead and instead of any risk of his tyres going bad, he went for the same tyre as lewis pretty much guaranteeing his result ahead of Lewis.
Rosberg didn't put a foot wrong even where the puncture was picked up.
All this nearly man crap - if lewis got the failure that Nico got in final race last year, the championship would have gone the other way.

Spudman_20000 · 30-08-2015 6:10pm

mickdw wrote: »

I don't see how he bottled it. It was calculated precaution. He was only worried about lewis, it was well ahead and instead of any risk of his tyres going bad, he went for the same tyre as lewis pretty much guaranteeing his result ahead of Lewis.
Rosberg didn't put a foot wrong even where the puncture was picked up.
All this nearly man crap - if lewis got the failure that Nico got in final race last year, the championship would have gone the other way.

You've just highlighted the flaw with Rosberg. Any driver with championship aspirations wouldn't be worrying about Lewis, who was 6 or 7 positions behind, they would be trying to catch the 2 cars in front.

He made the wrong call on the tyres, fell into the clutches of Ricciardo, and then drifted his car out wide for no reason and got clipped.

He should have gone into the 3 week break a handful of points behind Lewis, with Lewis stewing about a 'mare of a race. Instead he drove like a guy looking in his rear view mirrors and got caught up in an avoidable collision.

I think we're all hoping for a decent finish to a frankly awful F1 season, but I don't think Rosberg is the guy to put any sort of pressure on Lewis. He's been dominated in quali too.

flazio · 31-08-2015 12:11am

Here's what I think, despite the poor results in Belgium, Vettel will beat Rosberg to second place.
Side point, got a bit RTÉ nostalgic when this weekend's Sky Sports F1 show played Fatboy Slim Right Here Right Now under their Belgian Grand Prix recap.

Mike Litoris · 31-08-2015 11:06am

All it takes is one retirement for Lewis with Rosberg winning to tighten things back up. Rosberg, I think, has it in him but he's just not consistant enough and psychologically he's down this year. If the above happened it might give him the shot in the arm to get it together.

Lewis's biggest obstacle was always Lewis but he seems to have defeated this demon over the last 2 seasons. It could bite again but I cant see it happening. I wouldn't bet against him this year but anything can still happen.

Myrddin · 31-08-2015 11:25am

Agreed, one DNF for Lewis & a win for Nico puts them on equal footing again. With 200 points still on the table, this is far from over.

flazio · 31-08-2015 11:55am

Rosberg confirmed on Twitter that his missus gave birth to a girl yesterday.

aphex™ · 31-08-2015 12:00pm

flazio wrote: »

Rosberg confirmed on Twitter that his missus gave birth to a girl yesterday.

That's another second off his quali time

Stoolbend · 31-08-2015 3:55pm

Grosjean has improved as a driver since he had kids.

It never did Schumacher any harm either. It just depends on the driver.

tripperman · 31-08-2015 4:25pm

Stoolbend wrote: »

Grosjean has improved as a driver since he had kids.

It never did Schumacher any harm either. It just depends on the driver.

Hasn't slowed vettel down ether

Tea 1000 · 31-08-2015 5:02pm

Different sport, but I think Joey Dunlop sped up after kids!

-gilly-09- · 31-08-2015 7:29pm

Lads,

Heading to Monza on Thursday for my first GP. Been waiting for a long time to get to one!! Has anyone been over to monza in the last few years and can offer any tips!?

HighLine · 01-09-2015 12:08pm

OSI wrote: »

Hulkenberg has re-signed for Force India for '16 and '17. The guys lack of top team chances seem to be as much his own doing as any one else's.

Such a shame. He could do so well in a top team. If I was Ferrari, Kimi would be gone and Hulkenberg would be in.

Harika · 01-09-2015 12:16pm

He could be lucky and Renault buys Force India, what would be a surprise but at least they asked.
Edit: As I just realized, the calls for him to swap to WEC also calmed down, cause even under Motorsport-interested WEC is barely followed or who knows the winner of the last race without looking it up?

mickdw · 01-09-2015 12:56pm

OSI wrote: »

Hulkenberg has re-signed for Force India for '16 and '17. The guys lack of top team chances seem to be as much his own doing as any one else's.

Seems things are relatively settled for 16 anyway so he had little choice there but by all accounts 17 will be a big reshuffle and it would be foolish to be tied in for 17.
Still F1 contracts are only there to be bought out so I still wouldn't bet against him moving for 2017.
It seems nobody signs for a single year anymore, they are all multi year deals until about mid season where everything is in doubt again.
Button signed a new multi year deal with mclaren going into honda era yet he is probably out at end of year.

Jordan 199 · 01-09-2015 1:24pm

I hope Williams will retain Massa. He's doing a very good job there.

F1 fanatic · 01-09-2015 1:45pm

Is Massa under contract for next year

Myrddin · 01-09-2015 2:22pm

OSI wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd miss Massa tbh. It feels likes the only way he can keep his name relevant is to have a good whinge or offer an opinion on anything and he knows it.

Same, not a big fan of his really. Would love to see Jenson take his seat

mickdw · 01-09-2015 2:30pm

Myrddin wrote: »

Same, not a big fan of his really. Would love to see Jenson take his seat

I like massa in general but I think he had got a good run of it now. He has had 2 years at williams in a competitive car that he really should look on as a bonus to his career.

Myrddin · 01-09-2015 3:31pm

mickdw wrote: »

I like massa in general but I think he had got a good run of it now. He has had 2 years at williams in a competitive car that he really should look on as a bonus to his career.

Indeed, and like that, I don't have anything against the guy. His moaning though of late has been tiresome, he has a lot to be grateful for! Performance wise I think he's been off the boil for years now

Killinator · 01-09-2015 4:00pm

Harika wrote: »

He could be lucky and Renault buys Force India, what would be a surprise but at least they asked.
Edit: As I just realized, the calls for him to swap to WEC also calmed down, cause even under Motorsport-interested WEC is barely followed or who knows the winner of the last race without looking it up?

If you'd seen the crowds at the 6hr Nuburgring on Sunday you'd reconsider the term 'barely followed'

Also Mark Webber won driving with Brandon Hartley and Timo Bernhard.
Don't worry I didn't have to look it up, I watched it live

Harika · 01-09-2015 4:17pm

Killinator wrote: »

If you'd seen the crowds at the 6hr Nuburgring on Sunday you'd reconsider the term 'barely followed'
Also Mark Webber won driving with Brandon Hartley and Timo Bernhard.
Don't worry I didn't have to look it up, I watched it live

60000 weekend attendance versus 110000 at the F1 race in 2013, I still don't see the challenge it causes for F1. The DTM weekend 2014 was a weak one with 75000 only and still far ahead of the WEC.
Anyway during and after LeMans, it was proclaimed WEC is doing everything right and F1 drivers are looking in masses to jump onto the WEC train, basically the motorsport heaven where nectar and ambrosia are running. As the transfer market goes on it doesn't look like WEC can attract active F1 drivers to jump ships. Button might be the only active high profile driver, if McLaren kicks him out, but still no rumours are to be heard.

Infoanon · 01-09-2015 5:34pm

Harika wrote: »

60000 weekend attendance versus 110000 at the F1 race in 2013, I still don't see the challenge it causes for F1. The DTM weekend 2014 was a weak one with 75000 only and still far ahead of the WEC.
Anyway during and after LeMans, it was proclaimed WEC is doing everything right and F1 drivers are looking in masses to jump onto the WEC train, basically the motorsport heaven where nectar and ambrosia are running. As the transfer market goes on it doesn't look like WEC can attract active F1 drivers to jump ships. Button might be the only active high profile driver, if McLaren kicks him out, but still no rumours are to be heard.

Is the 110,000 not the 3 days cumulative as opposed to one day ?

Infoanon · 01-09-2015 5:37pm

AMKC wrote: »

It has been reported Renault are going to buy 65% of the Lotus team. Its just down to Lotus shareholders now.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/08/29/renault-buys-lotus-f1-team/

.

Someone is leaking a lot of detailed information - apparently the cashflow issues are due to the fact that Lotus cannot invoice their sponsors during the Renault negotiations and the biggest hurdle is Gerard Lopez wanting to retain an interest in the team.

Additionally apparently Renault are only willing to buy the 65% over a number of years with piecemeal payments....

recyclebin · 01-09-2015 5:41pm

There is no point comparing spectator numbers. TV viewers are way more important for branding, sponsorship and the amount of money in the sport as a whole.

Zcott · 01-09-2015 6:08pm

Joe Saward has some good stuff on his blog about the Renault/Lotus situation:

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2015/09/01/more-on-the-lotus-situation/

Harika · 01-09-2015 6:48pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Is the 110,000 not the 3 days cumulative as opposed to one day ?

All three numbers are weekend numbers.

tigerboon · 01-09-2015 7:56pm

Harika wrote: »

60000 weekend attendance versus 110000 at the F1 race in 2013

That's a bit like saying Boyzone had more number ones than the Beatles. Anyway, most of the comparison was in the hope that F1 would adapt some of the good aspects of WEC thereby increasing the entertainment and keeping it's popularity.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-09-2015 8:09pm

OSI wrote:

Hulkenberg has re-signed for Force India for '16 and '17. The guys lack of top team chances seem to be as much his own doing as any one else's.

Poor aul Hulk. We'll never know how good he really is.

In the future, you'll be talking to someone and say how much you liked Hulkenberg. The reply will be that he was in F1 for a decade and never won a race, never challenged for a title and only made it onto the podium a handful of times. Luck is a cruel mistress.

I class Hulkenberg in the upper middle tire of drivers - better than massa and maldonado but not good enough to bully his way into the top teams.

I hear he struggles to get sponsorship money. I found that strange because he's easy on the eye and from Germany.

In the end, we'll never be able to say how good he is because the force India is up and down depending on the weekend.

Hulkenberg and Kubica, never got a chance to show their worth.

-gilly-09- · 02-09-2015 12:16am

OSI wrote: »

Not for Monza specifically. Did you get the 3 day weekend ticket? If so, make sure you know about the pitlane walk, and get there early for it or you'll be 7 people deep trying to peep a view into the garages. Spend Friday moving around the track during the practices and support race sessions to get a feel for how things look from different spots and an idea of where you want to be on Saturday and Sunday. Saturday and Sunday, get to the track early. Like 7am early. The good spots fill out crazy quick.

Yep, have the 3 day tickets. Can you do a pit walk on the Friday with just normal tickets? If so I'll just start queuing on Thursday!

Infoanon · 02-09-2015 8:07am

-gilly-09- wrote: »

Yep, have the 3 day tickets. Can you do a pit walk on the Friday with just normal tickets? If so I'll just start queuing on Thursday!

Make sure you take a walk around the park and get to see what remains of the old circuit - the gradient has to be seen to be believed.

If driving to the circuit expect huge delays and difficulty with parking

Andrew76 · 02-09-2015 9:19am

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Poor aul Hulk. We'll never know how good he really is.

In the future, you'll be talking to someone and say how much you liked Hulkenberg. The reply will be that he was in F1 for a decade and never won a race, never challenged for a title and only made it onto the podium a handful of times. Luck is a cruel mistress.

I class Hulkenberg in the upper middle tire of drivers - better than massa and maldonado but not good enough to bully his way into the top teams.

I hear he struggles to get sponsorship money. I found that strange because he's easy on the eye and from Germany.

In the end, we'll never be able to say how good he is because the force India is up and down depending on the weekend.

Hulkenberg and Kubica, never got a chance to show their worth.

Kubica won a race at least and was being courted by Ferrari I think before his unfortunate rally related accident. Such a shame he'll never be back in F1.

El_Duderino 09 · 02-09-2015 10:11am

Andrew76 wrote:

Kubica won a race at least and was being courted by Ferrari I think before his unfortunate rally related accident. Such a shame he'll never be back in F1.

Hulkenberg has been associated with moves to Ferrari too but never had a decent car for a season or 2.

No offence to max verstappen or Daniel kvyat, but it's a shame that they get such an important opportunity so early and Hulk never got one at all.

with that said I think Hulk has really improved in the last 3 seasons so he might not have worked out at red bull when he was 21

Jordan 199 · 02-09-2015 1:15pm

With the Italian Grand Prix coming up this weekend, this is from the 1993 Italian Grand Prix:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAWgnYJvW_U

Article about it here.

HighLine · 02-09-2015 1:24pm

Jordan 191 wrote: »

Article about it here.

Gotta love this quote..

“For me he was dirty, an imbecile. From that day I never talked to him again. I have nothing against him, but for me, him and a trash can on the street is the same thing.”

Ghost Train · 02-09-2015 1:43pm

Martini does seem to move right kind of late

Explanation of missing fifth gear makes sense

muckwarrior · 02-09-2015 2:13pm

Those low, wide cars look great. Good to see that they seem to be moving back that direction for 2017.

Going Strong · 02-09-2015 3:51pm

Infoanon wrote: »

Someone is leaking a lot of detailed information - apparently the cashflow issues are due to the fact that Lotus cannot invoice their sponsors during the Renault negotiations and the biggest hurdle is Gerard Lopez wanting to retain an interest in the team.

Additionally apparently Renault are only willing to buy the 65% over a number of years with piecemeal payments....

Cyril Abiteboul, head of Renault F1, has been quite open about Renault doing F1 "On the cheap" - bigger payments from Bernie and using pay drivers and/or third party sponsors to lessen the financial burden.

Speaking of Renault, Red Bull are reportedly at the end of their patience with Renault with all the grid penalties and what have you. Another poor weekend at Monza could see them jump to Mercedes for next year - something Bernie wants to see happen. Renault buying Lotus would free up a supply slot straight away and would then influence who gets which engine next year.

Peanut Butter Jelly · 02-09-2015 10:51pm

You can be guaranteed that if Merc supply Red Bull with an engine that the maps given to Red Bull will be significantly down on the ones Merc use in the factory car.

Harika · 03-09-2015 8:10am

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

You can be guaranteed that if Merc supply Red Bull with an engine that the maps given to Red Bull will be significantly down on the ones Merc use in the factory car.

That would make no sense, as you might damage the engine and parts of it, by using them outside of the specified working tolerances. Also think of the ****storm brewing over Mercedes if this gets out. Anyway, I also think that RedBull would be smart enough to have a clause in the contract that guarantees not being too behind in development.

Harika · 03-09-2015 11:35am

Anyway there are also now rumors that Manor is talking to Mercedes and that they buy also parts from Williams instead to develop it themselves.
And McLaren needs to change the engines again. :eek: So +10 grid penalties.

Myrddin · 03-09-2015 11:58am

The situation is ridiculous, it'll be the Mercedes show before long. The PU's are too expensive/complex, they're pushing manufacturers away rather than attracting them

HighLine · 03-09-2015 12:02pm

Myrddin wrote: »

The situation is ridiculous, it'll be the Mercedes show before long. The PU's are too expensive/complex, they're pushing manufacturers away rather than attracting them

+1 and the whole point of introducing these ridiculous power units was to attract new engine manufacturers, starting with Audi. Annoying because they had a perfectly good cost effective V8.

flazio · 03-09-2015 12:16pm

https://twitter.com/ValtteriBottas/status/639367737358352388/

Bottas confirms he's staying with Williams. Has it ever happened that everyone at every team stayed exactly where they were for a consecutive year?
Edit: Massa staying as well.
What will this mean for Susie Wolff?

HighLine · 03-09-2015 12:25pm

:D
https://twitter.com/suttonimages/status/639368836169510912

El_Duderino 09 · 03-09-2015 12:36pm

HighLine wrote:

+1 and the whole point of introducing these ridiculous power units was to attract new engine manufacturers, starting with Audi. Annoying because they had a perfectly good cost effective V8.

Yeah but those power units weren't attracting new manufacturers. In fact they lost Honda and Toyota as a team and engine manufacturer, Renault as a team, cosworth engines, and ford/jaguar as a team. That old formula was cheaper but it wasn't attracting new manufacturers.

Granted, Renault sold up after the crash in Singapore.

According to joe Seward, audi want to join but won't until the undead dictator of F1has been slain. The sooner the better.

The teams asked for engines which require development of technology they can use in other contexts. It means they can use F1 as a development war with other manufacturers and offset the cost of taking part.

If you were a manufacturer you should either get in at the start or wait a few years until you can see how others are solving the problems, e.g. cooling and controlling airflow over the rear of the car. Honda have fallen between 2 stools as they are 1 year behind the others but they seem to be making the same mistakes for themselves. Wait another 2 or 3 years and F1 will be more attractive to manufacturers. Bernie will be gone (hopefully) and the technology will be easier to produce.

F1 is the best because it's not afraid to change and push boundaries. Bernie doesn't care about the future because he doesn't have a future but F1 needs to move forwards, not backwards

Myrddin · 03-09-2015 12:55pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah but those power units weren't attracting new manufacturers. In fact they lost Honda and Toyota as a team and engine manufacturer, Renault as a team, cosworth engines, and ford/jaguar as a team. That old formula was cheaper but it wasn't attracting new manufacturers.

That's true, but as you allude to yourself, the manufacturers need something that's relevant to their road car programmes. The V8's weren't, & that's why we lost teams & manufacturers. The 1.6 Turbos sound great on paper, but in the two years they've been around, they've proven off putting rather than attractive. Personally I think there's too much focus on the hybrid side of things, I get why it's there, but I think it should be reigned back in a bit...with the focus turning more to ICE & Turbo tech. I think the hybrid tech is fantastic, & will pave the way for road car technology...but I feel they've got the balance slightly wrong here, at the current time.

El_Duderino 09 · 03-09-2015 1:38pm

Myrddin wrote:

That's true, but as you allude to yourself, the manufacturers need something that's relevant to their road car programmes. The V8's weren't, & that's why we lost teams & manufacturers. The 1.6 Turbos sound great on paper, but in the two years they've been around, they've proven off putting rather than attractive. Personally I think there's too much focus on the hybrid side of things, I get why it's there, but I think it should be reigned back in a bit...with the focus turning more to ICE & Turbo tech. I think the hybrid tech is fantastic, & will pave the way for road car technology...but I feel they've got the balance slightly wrong here, at the current time.

I agree they should tweak it to make it more relevant to the manufacturers.

I disagree that it's putting manufacturers off. I listed all the teams who left before the current PUs. Since the new PUs we have honda joining as quasi team owners and making PUs, and Renault are probably buying Lotus. Plus the rumour that audi want to join but won't until Bernie is gone.

What evidence is there they he new engines are putting manufacturers off?

Myrddin · 03-09-2015 1:55pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

and Renault are probably buying Lotus. Plus the rumour that audi want to join but won't until Bernie is gone.

Well Renault are already a manufacturer, so it's a small enough step for them to make. The Audi rumour is just that, rumour.

What evidence is there they he new engines are putting manufacturers off?

I probably phrased that poorly, what I meant was, F1's new PU's which were introduced to appeal to new engine developers, haven't really done that - Honda aside. Where are BMW, Toyota, Audi, Peugeot, Cosworth etc? They're likely sitting at the sidelines, looking at the absolute nightmare that Honda are having & thinking to themselves "no thanks". My point is, F1 has failed at attracting new manufacturers with these 'industry friendly' PU's. There's too much to lose now for newer entrants, with brand images like Honda taking a battering. Who on earth barring Ferrari, is going to catch up with Merc now? As I posted previously, it's becoming the Mercedes show... Something actually effective needs to happen, to make taking a punt on entering F1 more worthwhile for manufacturers.

Formula 1 2015: General Discussion Thread

Comments