Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules

Clocking Back Cars?

Options
  • 31-10-2007 4:07pm
    #1
    funktastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭


    I'm just wondering how common clocking back miles on cars is these days? Not that I want to do it myself! I've heard a lot of conflicting reports from people- along the lines of yes it's done with cars from the 80s but not really the 90s using laptop/replacement odometer from a scrap yard.
    Just concerned when buying a used car privately/from a dealer.


Comments

  • Options
    #2
    louie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,200 ✭✭✭louie


    it is done and there have been cases made public, but they don't always get caught.

    With the new technology, it is a lot easier, cleaner and quicker to have it done, and the funny part is, it is not illegal to do so, but it is illegal to sell the car knowing it has been clocked and say nothing about it.


  • Options
    #3
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    The new Volvo's can't be clocked. But the rest it's easy to do.


  • Options
    #4
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,146 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Biro wrote: »
    The new Volvo's can't be clocked. But the rest it's easy to do.

    It was said at the time that digital odometers could not be tampered with too.

    Give it time and someone will.


  • Options
    #5
    dcGT
    Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭dcGT


    I believe it's referred to as speedometer 'correction' :rolleyes:

    Wasn't it on Primetime a good while back? Some guy with a company called 'Digital Corrections' with an ad in the back of the buyandsell paper. He clocked a Focus in a few minutes.

    DC.


  • Options
    #6
    CarLover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭CarLover


    I'd like to add for the OP that it's rife in Ireland. Do your homework before buying a used car.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    bazz26 wrote: »
    It was said at the time that digital odometers could not be tampered with too.

    Give it time and someone will.

    It's possible alright like all things, but it will involve reverse engineering their operating software, and a lot of hardship and expense that will make it not worth while. So I reckon they're safe for some time to come.


  • Options
    #8
    Masada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭Masada


    If you want to buy a car and your worried about the milage being suspiciously low, inspect the speering wheel, gear knob, bolsters in the seats and the rubbers on the pedals for obvious signs of wear and tear, if it has low milage then they should all b perfect.,


  • Options
    #9
    useless
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭useless


    Just curious (largely because I have a new-ish one!)- why can't the new Volvos be clocked? What makes theirs different from every other digital odometer? And how 'new' do you mean? '07 V70?
    Plus, I'd have thought the odo software would be something they'd have borrowed from Ford...so does that mean the new Fords are 'clocking-proof' as well?


  • Options
    #10
    Tipsy Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Tipsy Mac


    The majority of the digital speedos are actually much simpler to clock than the traditional speedos, all you need is the right software and laptop and away you go.


  • Options
    #11
    Masada
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭Masada


    it may be impossible at the moment but it wont be long before its possible., they need to be able to modify the milage incase of things like needing a new ECU and then you'd have to get the milage reprogrammed onto that one., Its only a matter of tim before it gets out.,


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,367 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    useless wrote: »
    Just curious (largely because I have a new-ish one!)- why can't the new Volvos be clocked? What makes theirs different from every other digital odometer? And how 'new' do you mean? '07 V70?
    Plus, I'd have thought the odo software would be something they'd have borrowed from Ford...so does that mean the new Fords are 'clocking-proof' as well?

    As far as i know most modern volvo ECU's which store millage have an individual security code, which is unique to that ECU serial number, the only way to get it for a particular ECU is from the Volvo database in Sweden. So you need to have on-line access to the volvo database ( which no clocker would ), and of course all requests to this database are logged.... I guess it is possible that there is some sort of "back door", but i'd be surprised if there was.

    They do have the same "network" software running as the latest fords, but the ECU design is still left up to the company that supplies the ECU... Also i know that ford are not running the same database as volvo and do not re-flash ECU's on the car like volvo do.


  • Options
    #13
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    The milage recording also is stored on one computer, but is verifyed by many others. So if you do hack it and change it, the others will counter act by giving a warning error code to the ECU to say that something is not right. Then the car will go into Safe Mode and the ECU light will come on in the dash. When you bring it to Volvo to reset, they'll see the hacked attempt and void your warranty.
    Volvo were the first to use networking in their cars. They actually hate Ford, as they don't think Ford methods are up to their standards. That partnership may actually end soon anyway. Other companys don't seem to care about clocking, suppose why would they?


  • Options
    #14
    cashmni1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 629 ✭✭✭cashmni1


    CarLover wrote: »
    I'd like to add for the OP that it's rife in Ireland. Do your homework before buying a used car.

    I agree with CarLover, it is Rife in this country. Espically cars imported from the UK. Fleet cars mostly. i.e. VW Passats, Ford Mondeos, BMW 3 series and Toyota Avensis (all diesels).
    There are private sales here that will flog you a diesel with the english plates and tell you that they will register the car for you after the purchase is made. Beware!
    Get a HPI done on the car if it is coming from the UK.
    I bought a VW passat (private sale) in the UK and had to do a lot of research before I made the buy. I was nearly caught out by a guy from Galway. The car (from Galway) had an english reg. He promised me that he had the full service history before I saw the car. When I traveled to see the car, the service history was a faxed sheet of paper with the wrong dates and mileage on it. They did not add up. The service book had only one stamp. (new book, old one thrown away). The seatbelts did not retract fully when released. The car "apparently" had 60,000 miles on the clock !! More like 160,000, and there was an oil leak under the left front.
    Anyway, just be careful and do your homework. Plenty of dodgy dealers around!!::mad:


  • Options
    #15
    useless
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭useless


    Thanks DublinDilbert & Biro, that's interesting.


  • Options
    #16
    zalm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15 ✭zalm


    I'd say it's pretty rife in ireland too. I was looking at a diesel Focus with UK plates, from an independent dealer, a couple of years back. Thankfully ran an HPI check on it first and found it had been clocked nearly 20,000 miles. By the time I had gone back the plates had been changed and nobody would have been the wiser...


  • Options
    #17
    CarLover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭CarLover


    I'm not even going to get into the dodgy dealers I've come across. Bottom line is trust no car dealer - SIMI or otherwise. It's a dodgy business full stop...

    Put in very simple terms...everyone needs a car...but few people know what's what - creating an opportunity for unscrupulous dealers to make a killing.


  • Options
    #18
    E92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,147 ✭✭✭E92


    Biro wrote: »
    The milage recording also is stored on one computer, but is verifyed by many others. So if you do hack it and change it, the others will counter act by giving a warning error code to the ECU to say that something is not right. Then the car will go into Safe Mode and the ECU light will come on in the dash. When you bring it to Volvo to reset, they'll see the hacked attempt and void your warranty.
    Volvo were the first to use networking in their cars. They actually hate Ford, as they don't think Ford methods are up to their standards. That partnership may actually end soon anyway. Other companys don't seem to care about clocking, suppose why would they?

    Hmm thats very interesting, and it absolutely the right thing to do, fair play to Volvo, though you'd wonder why the rest of the Ford group of companies haven't started it yet?(maybe it's to do with the fact that there is a very strong possibility that Volvo will be sold, there have been lots of rumours going around that Volvo will indeed be sold(after Ford get rid of Jag and Land Rover) next year)

    Then again, Volvo are still developing their own engines(the 5 and 6 pots are all their own designs), so are Mazda(the newly introduced 2 and all the other Mazdas in the range have some of Mazdas own engines like the 6 and 2 whose engines are all Mazdas own handywork, and won't be found on any other Ford, not even the new Fiesta), and being honest, I could never see why this is allowed, I mean Ford, Mazda and Volvo have products that all overlap to a certain extent(especially Ford and Mazda), Ford does platform sharing, why don't they do(more)engine sharing, especially with all the money they are losing?

    Speaking of networking, I'd be 99% certain that new BMWs and MINIs have this very feature Biro described that now features in Volvos.

    All BMWs for the past while all are equipped with Condition Based servicing, so when you take your BMW in for a service, the mechanic takes the key, puts it into a computer, and the key records what was done to the car since it was last serviced, it monitors things like how you drove it, what your driving style is, mpg, how far you drove it, how long you drove it etc so I'm sure BMWs also have the networking feature.


  • Options
    #19
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    E92 wrote: »
    Hmm thats very interesting, and it absolutely the right thing to do, fair play to Volvo, though you'd wonder why the rest of the Ford group of companies haven't started it yet?(maybe it's to do with the fact that there is a very strong possibility that Volvo will be sold, there have been lots of rumours going around that Volvo will indeed be sold(after Ford get rid of Jag and Land Rover) next year)

    Then again, Volvo are still developing their own engines(the 5 and 6 pots are all their own designs), so are Mazda(the newly introduced 2 and all the other Mazdas in the range have some of Mazdas own engines like the 6 and 2 whose engines are all Mazdas own handywork, and won't be found on any other Ford, not even the new Fiesta), and being honest, I could never see why this is allowed, I mean Ford, Mazda and Volvo have products that all overlap to a certain extent(especially Ford and Mazda), Ford does platform sharing, why don't they do(more)engine sharing, especially with all the money they are losing?
    It's strange how any multinational company works really. It could even be something like Mazda and Volvo having some clause in the agreement that they retain the right to use their own engines where they deem necessary, you wouldn't know.
    E92 wrote: »

    Speaking of networking, I'd be 99% certain that new BMWs and MINIs have this very feature Biro described that now features in Volvos.

    All BMWs for the past while all are equipped with Condition Based servicing, so when you take your BMW in for a service, the mechanic takes the key, puts it into a computer, and the key records what was done to the car since it was last serviced, it monitors things like how you drove it, what your driving style is, mpg, how far you drove it, how long you drove it etc so I'm sure BMWs also have the networking feature.
    They do now, and I think VW/Audi are just after or just about to introduce it, but Volvo have it in since 2002 or something way back, apparently they were the first.


  • Options
    #20
    cianclarke
    Registered Users Posts: 1,389 ✭✭✭cianclarke


    Just like to backup the claims that it's rife - when I went to buy my passat, two of the three cars I went to see were clocked, the third had a service history and I bought it.
    One was bought up north, brought down and clocked back from 300,000 back to 65,000 on a 98 1.9Tdi passat, it was some polish lads one of which worked in belgard.

    The other was a 19.Tdi from a dealer in naas, 70,000 miles on a 99 car that worked as a taxi... I couldn't get him to admit to it, but I have no doubt whatsoever it was clocked.


  • Options
    #21
    uberwolf
    Registered Users Posts: 7,579 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    who can you trust?

    I'm about to go view a car over the weekend, Passat with 64K for 2002. Private sale.

    I will have a mechanic look at it if I'm happy.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    CarLover
    Closed Accounts Posts: 146 ✭✭CarLover


    uberwolf wrote: »
    who can you trust?

    No one...they're all out to get you - you especially uberwolf ;)


  • Options
    #23
    Biro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Biro


    You can kind of trust a 2 year old car with 150,000 miles on it as being genuine! :)


Advertisement