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not being part of your childs life

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    There's no need to be so snide.

    simpsons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Marge_We_Trust

    It was a Simpsons joke. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    simpsons... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Marge_We_Trust

    It was a Simpsons joke. :)

    Okay. I'm not a fan of The Simpsons. :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Okay. I'm not a fan of The Simpsons. :)

    Great Scott! :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    Great Scott! :eek:

    I like it but not a fan, if ye get me. :-/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,186 ✭✭✭BUBBLE WRAP


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    I like it but not a fan, if ye get me. :-/

    Fair enough.. :p


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,259 ✭✭✭✭Melion


    D-FENS wrote: »
    Have you looked into getting the courts involved here? sounds to me that you would have a decent case if you already see your child three times week.

    We are going to court soon but i wont be getting a solicitor basically because i cant afford one. Her mother is doing it so there are guaranteed days that i have my daughter because one time, because of circumstances beyond my control, i couldnt take her on the day i was meant to(but took her on a different day instead).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    There are a range of punishments for non-compliance. Fines apply in the case of refusing to name the father on the birth certificate, for example.
    The culture (and the argument as to whether the law followed the culture or vice versa is not one I'm qualified to answer) is different to here. Fathers are involved in all decisions from day one, are facilitated in leave to raise the children, and are considered equal co-parents.
    But it does extend further than the family law system. Childcare is heavily subsidised for example, and there is a more collective understanding of responsibility for minding children.

    Do fines apply to the men who refuse to? And to those who dont want to see their kids?

    What about the ones who emmigrate? Remarry? etc.... Do they all get fined?

    I can't see that really working. In fact should I even believe you? Some policy from Scandinavia that forces dads to be dads and enforces it? I have a really hard time believing that.

    Also, you kind of lose credibility for unbias when you dismiss one person's anecdotes and not your own. .

    Anecdotes aren't worthy of automatic dismissal. Everything in the end outside of science, is anecdotal. There was really no call for calling singling mother whining, and skangers, etc. That kind of name calling hardly brings about depth and understanding to such a topic loaded with hurt for a lot of people, both mothers and fathers, and especially the kids.

    I dont know why you are so insistent on blaming the mother. These kinds of anecdotes can verify the inertia to the point it might encourage a reader to not even bother trying, and then you are part of the access problem, because this story, this narrative, the one YOU are perpetuating, is helping building the wall to keep fathers out and letting mothers out there know, that yes they can get away with it.

    But this should not dominate this discussion. There are a multitude of reasons why someone might not be in their child's life.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    Melion wrote: »

    We are going to court soon but i wont be getting a solicitor basically because i cant afford one.
    Have you tried applying for legal aid?


  • Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My father walked away from me 42 years ago.

    I was lucky in that I had a great relationship with his family, who I visited all the time when I was a child, they tried to make up for him I suppose. They were really good and kind to me. My mam never bad mouthed him, and in fact she got on well with his family too.

    From him, I never got a letter, a birthday card, a phone call. All his choice, as he could have passed a card along through his family, but he wanted the life, without a child bothering him I guess.

    Now, a few months ago, I was tracked down on the net, by someone telling me he was dying and wanted to see me. To tell me how sorry he was etc etc.
    They asked would I get in touch with him. He also wanted pics of me and my children!!
    Is he mad or what LOL

    That will never happen. He can die feeling full of regret as far as I am concerned.

    He is reaping what he sowed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,565 ✭✭✭Cerulean Chicken


    Ah, another glass of single mother's favourite w(h)ine.
    Delicious!

    As a single father, let me ask you this, OP: do you really believe anyone 'walks away' from their children, or are they more likely in fact to be discouraged by the requirement to engage in an expensive, adversarial court process in order to obtain even a provisional involvement in their children's lives following a relationship break up?
    Also, do you think anyone would 'walk away' from their children if we had parental equality enshrined in law from birth, as is the case in Scandinavia?

    My Dad happily walked away from two children by two different women, first me, the child he had with his wife and then my half sister, who he had with the woman he cheated with. Neither mother was taking him to court, they were both civilised grown ups about the whole thing, but mainly because they knew he had no interest in seeing us never mind access or custody! Except for our mothers asking him to call us, call over to see us etc he would've happily never seen us again, no interest, he can only hang out with you if you're willing to join him in drinking binges in the pub of his choice, so kids weren't any good to him. He happily bought my sister alcoholic drinks from 13 on, he didn't buy me one until my 18th birthday (because my mother would kill him) at which point he took me drinking the night I turned 18 and so followed one of the worst, most regrettable nights of my life.

    A friend of mine's dad is friends with my Dad, and they are cut from the same cloth. He left the family years ago, just walked away, he did however show up to cry and howl at her brother's funeral, even though he hadn't met up with him at any of the given opportunities in the previous years. The last time I saw him he told me his daughter/my friend is a "c*nt and a b!tch", charming.

    So yes, some people do just walk away, and others possibly should just f*ck off forever, for everyone's benefit. I have gained nothing from having my father in my life other than some vicious hangovers and awful drunken injuries when I was young and stupid enough to think my Dad would look out for me.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    ...And of course sometimes your kid don't want to see you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    smash wrote: »
    Ffs when did schools stop teaching properly. This country is getting illiterate as f*cking record speed!

    "at"

    Just sayin'


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,109 ✭✭✭Cavehill Red


    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    As have cases where men have abandoned their children. What's your point?

    My point was that the emotive phrase 'walking away' has a very limited applicability, verging on useless.

    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    So why did you give your own?

    I did acknowledge it ran the risk of someone like you engaging in exactly this form of mcguffin debate. I have already explained I did it for the purpose of clarity. I've now amended it to present the exact same argument in a generic form. I look forward to you engaging with that.
    Eve_Dublin wrote: »
    Two words: Levenson Enquiry.

    You understand the Leveson inquiry was not about the reliability of press presentation of court reports, I hope?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    smash wrote: »
    'Been' does not equal 'being'

    And it's their life, not there life.

    Ffs when did schools stop teaching properly. This country is getting illiterate as f*cking record speed!
    Untrue. This country was always illiterate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 980 ✭✭✭Freddy Smelly


    cena wrote: »
    Could you not be part of your childs life?

    I don't know how people can just walk away from there children

    to avoid paying tax on children's allowance????


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    I did acknowledge it ran the risk of someone like you engaging in exactly this form of mcguffin debate. I have already explained I did it for the purpose of clarity. I've now amended it to present the exact same argument in a generic form. I look forward to you engaging with that.?

    Someone like me? Can you explain that please? Genuinely would like to hear what you mean by that.


    Like how you only referred to my posts when many other disagreed with you. Selective listening suits your agenda, obviously.


    You fixed your posts but it doesn't undo your hypocrisy. Sorry pal! :)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,884 ✭✭✭Eve_Dublin


    You understand the Leveson inquiry was not about the reliability of press presentation of court reports, I hope?

    I used it as an example of the press breaking the law and getting away with it for a very long time. If they've done this, then my confidence in what they report has justifiably lessened as a result.

    That wasn't my point though (I've already stated what my point was but you chose to ignore it again to suit your own agenda).

    As I said previously, I don't deny the cases happened but I can also show you stories of fathers abandoning their children and for some strange reason, you won't acknowledge this happens instead discounting stories from posters because they're anecdotal (which doesn't mean they're inherently untrue.). I stated that the label of shit parents doesn't depend on gender but you've made this into a gender battle by your remarks regarding single mothers.

    I understand you've had a tough time yourself but making single mothers out to be the enemy does you no favours - plenty of single mothers have been treated abysmally by their exes. Surely it's the good parents v the bad parents and gender doesn't come into it?


    I bet you'll quote me again without referring to what my central point was though, so I know I'm wasting my time here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Did Eve_Dublin close her account because of this thread?


  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭BubbleBalls


    Did Eve_Dublin close her account because of this thread?
    Can't say I'm surprised if she did. This thread turned ugly some time ago. Unsubscribing.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Did Eve_Dublin close her account because of this thread?

    I wouldn't blame her. She took a fair bit of character assassination.

    Probably the straw the broke the camel's back.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,659 ✭✭✭CrazyRabbit


    There are some parents that I wish would walk away from their children. The children would be better off as orphans/wards of the state, or if adopted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Do fines apply to the men who refuse to? And to those who dont want to see their kids?

    What about the ones who emmigrate? Remarry? etc.... Do they all get fined?

    Why would remarrying prevent a man from participating in th lives of his children from a previous relationship?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    Why would remarrying prevent a man from participating in th lives of his children from a previous relationship?

    Well, they move away, have new kids, and a new family, natural distance occurs or old kids don't get on with new kids, step mom hates bio mom, bio mom hates step mom, it happens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Well, they move away, have new kids, and a new family, natural distance occurs or old kids don't get on with new kids, step mom hates bio mom, bio mom hates step mom, it happens.

    It happens if you don't make an effort to remain in your childrens' lives. I know many remarried men who continue to parent the children of their previous relationship because it is important to them to overcome those sort of impediments.

    The "reasons" you gave are just excuses for laziness.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Can't say I'm surprised if she did. This thread turned ugly some time ago. Unsubscribing.
    Why do so many people find it so difficult to discuss, comment, criticise, debate or discourse without turning aggressive? I'm thinking of starting a thread on it. Are we all supposed to hold the same opinions? I'm well aware of how difficult this subject is for some, but usually two people are suffering in these situations, more if you count the kids.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    It happens if you don't make an effort to remain in your childrens' lives. I know many remarried men who continue to parent the children of their previous relationship because it is important to them to overcome those sort of impediments.

    The "reasons" you gave are just excuses for laziness.

    Yes I do too. But I also know kids [now adults] who grew up with the other circumstances. People get overcommitted. They have a new family and they dont want to risk failing that one for the sake of the one that already failed. So something has to give.

    People do what they want, everything else is rationalisations in the end.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    It happens if you don't make an effort to remain in your childrens' lives. I know many remarried men who continue to parent the children of their previous relationship because it is important to them to overcome those sort of impediments.

    The "reasons" you gave are just excuses for laziness.

    Again it can be different reasons, some men just forget about the the children as they've a new life, sometimes the new wife/partner forces them not to see the children due to jealousy (his fault IMO) and sometimes the ex is jealous of the new relationship and makes it difficult, I'm sure there are other reasons too. These things are usually complicated.

    Even a Dad who walks away can have his reasons. Barnardos had a scheme reuniting absent young Dads with their children, often it was just a lack of education about rights etc., immaturity with the prospect of being a young Dad, stuff like that. Some might see that as excuses, sometimes people just don't know much better and need help.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 52 ✭✭boboldpilot


    I know there are reason for it all. But I personally could not walk away from my kids. I have two, one is particularly like me. The poor barsteward. The other is the light of my life.

    I cannot imagine being separated from them. I wouldn't even give a sperm donation. It would drive me crazy thinking there's a son or daughter of mine out there that I didn't know.

    I don't know how some parents can leave their kids behind unless they had no choice.

    But that's just me.

    As for the grammar nazis, mods can be ban them? Yeah sure I hate mispellings and the rest. But really it's just BS.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I know there are reason for it all. But I personally could not walk away from my kids. I have two, one is particularly like me. The poor barsteward. The other is the light of my life.

    I cannot imagine being separated from them. I wouldn't even give a sperm donation. It would drive me crazy thinking there's a son or daughter of mine out there that I didn't know.

    I don't know how some parents can leave their kids behind unless they had no choice.

    But that's just me.

    I had access denied a few times, went through all the emotions from depression to anger, it's an amazing thing when you get to see them again. I couldn't just leave a child like that but as you say, that's me too. A couple of times I came close to imagining how somebody could just walk away and say "this isn't worth it for everybody".
    As for the grammar nazis, mods can be ban them? Yeah sure I hate mispellings and the rest. But really it's just BS.

    Just as an aside, I think it was acted on, maybe not bans but action was taken. Got a bit silly, but as I'd posted and taken an interest in the thread, preferred to leave it my betters! Report any posts you think weren't actioned or pm the mods with questions.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    K-9 wrote: »
    I had access denied a few times, went through all the emotions from depression to anger, it's an amazing thing when you get to see them again. I couldn't just leave a child like that but as you say, that's me too. A couple of times I came close to imagining how somebody could just walk away and say "this isn't worth it for everybody".



    Just as an aside, I think it was acted on, maybe not bans but action was taken. Got a bit silly, but as I'd posted and taken an interest in the thread, preferred to leave it my betters! Report any posts you think weren't actioned or pm the mods with questions.

    When people do it, I don't know how much they fully understand the consequences of their actions up the road. There's also depression and other mental illnesses to consider, maybe addiction too.

    As to your second point, I don't think it was the grammar corrections that were nasty, there were some very snide personalised comments made that were pretty nasty. I guess the mods don't read everything? I jsut kind of assume they do and if they don't take any action it means they endorse it and that its ok, which would lead one not to report further offenses.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    When people do it, I don't know how much they fully understand the consequences of their actions up the road. There's also depression and other mental illnesses to consider, maybe addiction too.

    It often isn't also, but depression and addiction could be a result of the denial of access or indeed, the other side of the coin, why access was denied and it makes things worse. Sometimes it is just a case of a man just not giving a bollicks and couldn't care less no matter what, your basic narcissist, or a controlling power wielding ex with narcissistic tendencies.

    One of the best laughs I got on this subject was, apparently a mother can't be narcissistic just by giving birth! Apparently the act of giving birth cures all manner of disorders!
    As to your second point, I don't think it was the grammar corrections that were nasty, there were some very snide personalised comments made that were pretty nasty. I guess the mods don't read everything? I jsut kind of assume they do and if they don't take any action it means they endorse it and that its ok, which would lead one not to report further offenses.

    Well I just argued with anything I thought objectionable. Again, I didn't really mod the thread so report anything or pm the mods. I shouldn't really be talking about it.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,846 ✭✭✭Fromthetrees


    K-9 wrote: »

    I had access denied a few times, went through all the emotions from depression to anger, it's an amazing thing when you get to see them again. I couldn't just leave a child like that but as you say, that's me too. A couple of times I came close to imagining how somebody could just walk away and say "this isn't worth it for everybody".



    Just as an aside, I think it was acted on, maybe not bans but action was taken. Got a bit silly, but as I'd posted and taken an interest in the thread, preferred to leave it my betters! Report any posts you think weren't actioned or pm the mods with questions.

    I can't believe you were denied access, unless you've got serious criminal convictions it's nothing but a disgusting shame that this goes on in Ireland today.

    Our leader apologised today over the way the state treated women so unfairly. Maybe in 20 or 60 years time the then leader will have to apologise over how unfairly the state has treated men.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    I can't believe you were denied access, unless you've got serious criminal convictions it's nothing but a disgusting shame that this goes on in Ireland today.

    Our leader apologised today over the way the state treated women so unfairly. Maybe in 20 or 60 years time the then leader will have to apologise over how unfairly the state has treated men.

    The whole thing needs root and branch reform, from a mother who can just deny access at a whim or because of a row, and the courts will only give her a slap on the wrist, to men who never see the child and how can you force a dad who doesn't give a bollicks about himself, to see and care for a child? to a divorce bill that was conservative nearly 20 years ago when it was first introduced, and now is starting to look archaic.

    Meanwhile they introduce co-habitation and same sex rights, and that's fantastic, maybe they'd put a little bit of attention on the f*cking current f*ck up of a family system, before potentially adding hundreds or thousands more to the system down the line.

    I haven't even covered half the stupidities of the current system in that rant. But anybody who looks at it from a "my sex is worse of than yours" angle, isn't the person to be looking to for answers.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    K-9 wrote: »
    The whole thing needs root and branch reform, from a mother who can just deny access at a whim or because of a row, and the courts will only give her a slap on the wrist, to men who never see the child and how can you force a dad who doesn't give a bollicks about himself, to see and care for a child? to a divorce bill that was conservative nearly 20 years ago when it was first introduced, and now is starting to look archaic.

    Meanwhile they introduce co-habitation and same sex rights, and that's fantastic, maybe they'd put a little bit of attention on the f*cking current f*ck up of a family system, before potentially adding hundreds or thousands more to the system down the line.

    I haven't even covered half the stupidities of the current system in that rant. But anybody who looks at it from a "my sex is worse of than yours" angle, isn't the person to be looking to for answers.

    It must be the most alienating feeling to know you have kid out there, this person who exists because of you, and never know them, even what they look like. I don't know how some turn their feelings off to this, or to the kids who also live wondering what their parent or parents even look like. It's so hard to even begin to imagine. ANd to live and then die, never knowing.

    I know someone who was denied access by a grandparent, actually two dads were, one by a maternal grandfather who had a lot of money and clout and dominated his daughter, neither the daughter or the child were allowed to see him again. He ended up not knowing where they were, time moves forward and it becomes harder and harder to intercept a life, not knowing what they are being told, are they being raised by someone else and she thinks hes her father, etc...


  • Registered Users Posts: 427 ✭✭chinwag


    Off topic I know (apologies), but would like to say I'm sorry to see Eve has closed her account, another good poster gone. Pity accounts can't be deactivated or disabled to allow members to exit boards for a period but perhaps not permanently.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    The OP posted a threadbare comment about how they can't understand someone choosing not to be part of their child's life... no mention of whether done by a father or mother, no mention by the OP whether they're a single mother or even a woman... and in response, a TIRADE re single mothers being bitter. And even some "genius" saying to Hairyprincess:
    joe stodge wrote: »
    Just come out and say it we're all bastarðs.
    ... when all she did was say that actually, in her experience, her child's father (one man, she said nothing about all men) did walk away and then she defended herself from a vitriolic ad hominem (simply because her story was inconvenient). :confused:

    There are indeed two sides to every story, and what appears to be a case of walking away is not always so clear-cut - I still wouldn't discount the possibility however that there are some parents (male and female) who just don't want to be involved in their child's life, because they're simply not into parenting. I have spoken to a man who said this is the very thing that applied to his situation. I know that's an anecdote but so what? It's from the horse's mouth; it can happen. A more high-profile example is Julie Burchill. Just not into being a mother. No mention of PND or any other issues.

    I can understand separated fathers feeling defensive (when there are automatically more rights afforded to the mother, and it is grossly unfair; and when many of them get unfairly tarred with the "deadbeat dad" brush when it often does not apply) but there's no need to take this topic so personally to the point of aggression and downright haranguing. It's not directed at those separated fathers who want/have a role in their child(ren)'s life but face a lot of obstacles, the challenging of which, isn't always feasible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    Im sad to say that i have walked away recently :(

    Over the past year i have only seen my kids twice.

    I used to have to fight with the ex to see them and because we lived so close i always made sure i saw them everyday and had them every weekend.

    Some **** happened and i lost the plot, turned to drink and drugs and pretty much ****ed my life up, its horrible not seeing them but i'd rather they didn't see me the way i am for now till i sort myself, it seems selfish i know but i need to be right in the head for my kids.

    Still in contact with the mother and pay my maintenance and do whatever i can do from a distance. But sometimes you gotta do stuff you dont want to.

    Damn i miss them :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    0ph0rce0 wrote: »
    Im sad to say that i have walked away recently :(

    Over the past year i have only seen my kids twice.

    I used to have to fight with the ex to see them and because we lived so close i always made sure i saw them everyday and had them every weekend.

    Some **** happened and i lost the plot, turned to drink and drugs and pretty much ****ed my life up, its horrible not seeing them but i'd rather they didn't see me the way i am for now till i sort myself, it seems selfish i know but i need to be right in the head for my kids.

    Still in contact with the mother and pay my maintenance and do whatever i can do from a distance. But sometimes you gotta do stuff you dont want to.

    Damn i miss them :(

    Sorry to hear that, I hope you can find some way around it for you and your kids sakes. You'll never have a better incentive to turn your life around than your kids but you seem to be on the right track which is great. Forget your mistakes, you should be proud of yourself for facing up to them and thinking of your kids. I don't think your selfish at all. I wish you all the best.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,390 ✭✭✭clairefontaine


    0ph0rce0 wrote: »
    Im sad to say that i have walked away recently :(

    Over the past year i have only seen my kids twice.

    I used to have to fight with the ex to see them and because we lived so close i always made sure i saw them everyday and had them every weekend.

    Some **** happened and i lost the plot, turned to drink and drugs and pretty much ****ed my life up, its horrible not seeing them but i'd rather they didn't see me the way i am for now till i sort myself, it seems selfish i know but i need to be right in the head for my kids.

    Still in contact with the mother and pay my maintenance and do whatever i can do from a distance. But sometimes you gotta do stuff you dont want to.

    Damn i miss them :(

    That's really sad. I know what addiction can do to people. But every day is a chance to turn things around. Maybe you could just send them some letters or something so they know you haven't forgotten about them and that it's not their fault, give them a narrative to hang onto that explains why you don't see them. Hope you dont mind the onsolicited advice. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,987 ✭✭✭0ph0rce0


    That's really sad. I know what addiction can do to people. But every day is a chance to turn things around. Maybe you could just send them some letters or something so they know you haven't forgotten about them and that it's not their fault, give them a narrative to hang onto that explains why you don't see them. Hope you dont mind the onsolicited advice. :)

    Just to say its not heroin ;) I aint that bad


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Madam_X wrote: »
    Wow, some thread. Venom-filled. The OP posted a threadbare comment about how they can't understand someone choosing not to be part of their child's life... no mention of whether done by a father or mother, no mention by the OP whether they're a single mother or even a woman..

    It can either man or women. I'M A GUY and both parents where part of my life


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    cena wrote: »
    It can either man or women. I'M A GUY and both parents where part of my life
    That's my point. It was just assumed you were a single mother out to have a go at all estranged dads.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,046 ✭✭✭✭cena


    Madam_X wrote: »
    That's my point. It was just assumed you were a single mother out to have a go at all estranged dads.

    In my op I never said anything about dads. If I wanted too I would of added it to the thread title


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