HID Lights in the NCT

wotswattage · 24-02-2014 3:20pm

Chimaera wrote: »

Can we please stop using the term "xenon" to describe bulbs? It's completely misleading since it can be used to describe either halogen or HID bulbs.

HID capsules normally use xenon gas (though gas discharge lamp technology can use other gases too).

Halogen bulbs can also use xenon as the filler gas to help provide longer lamp life.

There are perfectly good names for both technologies so why use what's essentially a marketing term to confuse things!!!

Regarding the difference between the technologies at the NCT centre, ballasts are the obvious sign like other posters have mentioned. A lux meter would also be a dead giveaway (HIDs are that much stronger) and I wouldn't be surprised if the headlamp aiming equipment in the NCT centres has a lux meter built in. If aftermarket HIDs are fitted to reflector headlamps the glare from beam scattering will be pretty obvious too.

I'm purposely using the word xenon to describe bulbs filled with xenon gas intended as a like for like replacement for halogen ones -no ballast. A HID setup requires ballast that's why I'm using the three different terms to avoid confusion.

Halogen (tungsten filament in halogen filled chamber)
Xenon (tungsten filament in xenon filled chamber)
HID (no filament works by arc in xenon/other gas. Required ballast)

If a bulb has halogen gas it's a halogen bulb. If it has no halogen gas but xenon gas instead it's a xenon bulb.

I'd say 90% of the glaring badly focused lights in daysul Carinas/Caddy vans I pass on the road are Xenon replacements (not HIDS).

Just doing some more trawling there through the NCT manual, I could swear that the section we are discussing referred to HID/Xenon headlamps not just HID's?!?!? That's why I had in my head that it 'may' be hard to tell the difference between like for like Xenon bulbs and the halogens they replaced. The section only says HID no mention of Xenon in the entire handbook!! Looks like the types of Xenon bulbs I'm talking about are perfectly fine in terms of an NCT:o...

Is that a revision?
Maybe I read it on a forum?!?
Maybe I'm genuinely gone scatty...

SleeperService · 24-02-2014 3:57pm

Tbf, a lotta people get confused by this. Use of terms like Bi-xenon by manufacturers doesn't help. People don't even want to (can't?) learn the difference, they just want "them fancy lights"

goz83 · 24-02-2014 4:50pm

I'm still wondering about my FTO GPX. The GPvR comes with factory HID and the headlamps (afaik) are identical on all the FTOs with the exception of the facelift and pre-facelift bracket positions. They are projector lenses. So if one headlight unit is considered ok, should it also be considered ok for HID kit, considering the headlights are the same?

My GPX is currently in the garage having regular bulbs fit and corroded brake line replaced for retest in Northpoint. I am disgusted that they failed it on HID :mad: It's a good kit with 8000k light and warm up time is a couple of seconds.

Wossack · 24-02-2014 4:55pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Like how you notice more cars of a certain when you've bought one yourself, I'm noticing quite the number of cars out there with HID's and no washers. BMW's, Merc's, Toyotas, Hondas and a couple quite late ones too(06/07). Dunno about the leveling as I figured "here missus can I fiddle with your headlights" may not have gone down well in the supermarket car park...

definitely not when you're doing the grabby hands action as I'm imagining anyway

SleeperService · 24-02-2014 10:05pm

Eek there's more than one! Black pick up I've seen. The man must have a headache after driving more than 20mins.

Chris_Heilong · 24-02-2014 11:35pm

goz83 wrote: »

I'm still wondering about my FTO GPX. The GPvR comes with factory HID and the headlamps (afaik) are identical on all the FTOs with the exception of the facelift and pre-facelift bracket positions. They are projector lenses. So if one headlight unit is considered ok, should it also be considered ok for HID kit, considering the headlights are the same?

My GPX is currently in the garage having regular bulbs fit and corroded brake line replaced for retest in Northpoint. I am disgusted that they failed it on HID :mad: It's a good kit with 8000k light and warm up time is a couple of seconds.

I seen your engine bay and you can see the Hid controller unit box so they look after market, usually the factory HID box is directly below the lighting unit themselves and cant be seen. I dont think the NCT guys really know what an FTO is.

goz83 · 25-02-2014 8:18pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I seen your engine bay and you can see the Hid controller unit box so they look after market, usually the factory HID box is directly below the lighting unit themselves and cant be seen. I dont think the NCT guys really know what an FTO is.

You must be thinking of another fto Chris. My kit was only visible from underneath the car. The garage removed it today

I now have ****ty dull yellow lights. Safety my effin hole:mad:

Also, there was NO CORROSION where they said there was. The mechanic said that the did see the yellow mark, but that I had steel braded hoses with a small piece of rubber peeled away and not a bit of corrosion.

debabyjesus · 26-02-2014 1:58am

Hi all, my A6 has hid's in projector lenses, no washers and manual levellers. Its a 2004 1.9 C5. NCT coming up in June. They look pretty much factory and the headlight assembly has both H7 and D2S printed on it, the full beams are halogen H7's.

Does anyone know the story with audi's around that year did they have factory hid's minus the washers and auto levellers, or are mine just very convincing aftermarkets?

Tropheus · 26-02-2014 11:08am

debabyjesus wrote: »

Hi all, my A6 has hid's in projector lenses, no washers and manual levellers. Its a 2004 1.9 C5. NCT coming up in June. They look pretty much factory and the headlight assembly has both H7 and D2S printed on it, the full beams are halogen H7's.

Does anyone know the story with audi's around that year did they have factory hid's minus the washers and auto levellers, or are mine just very convincing aftermarkets?

I would say aftermarket. My C5 allroad has factory HIDs and has washers and auto levelling.

djimi · 26-02-2014 11:34am

debabyjesus wrote: »

Hi all, my A6 has hid's in projector lenses, no washers and manual levellers. Its a 2004 1.9 C5. NCT coming up in June. They look pretty much factory and the headlight assembly has both H7 and D2S printed on it, the full beams are halogen H7's.

Does anyone know the story with audi's around that year did they have factory hid's minus the washers and auto levellers, or are mine just very convincing aftermarkets?

If in doubt, ring the manufacturer (or a parts dept of a main dealer), give them your chassis number and ask them to check for you.

debabyjesus · 26-02-2014 4:05pm

Just took the Hid's out of the A6, they're aftermarket alright. I suppose this is nearly better that them being stock and trying to fight my case in the NCT. Only problem now is that the hid bulb had an adaptor to fit in the lens, its the twist type with two locking tabs, the H7 halogen I tried to fit has no way to lock it in place, I guess i'm missing some locking piece for the H7 bulb, the hid adaptor doesn't allow the halogen to lock in place either. Anyone ever have this issue?

Tropheus · 26-02-2014 8:56pm

debabyjesus wrote: »

Just took the Hid's out of the A6, they're aftermarket alright. I suppose this is nearly better that them being stock and trying to fight my case in the NCT. Only problem now is that the hid bulb had an adaptor to fit in the lens, its the twist type with two locking tabs, the H7 halogen I tried to fit has no way to lock it in place, I guess i'm missing some locking piece for the H7 bulb, the hid adaptor doesn't allow the halogen to lock in place either. Anyone ever have this issue?

Once they're focused correctly they'll get through the NCT. I put a Passat through two weeks ago with an aftermarket HID kit and there were no issues.

Kace · 10-03-2014 11:44pm

debabyjesus wrote: »

Just took the Hid's out of the A6, they're aftermarket alright. I suppose this is nearly better that them being stock and trying to fight my case in the NCT. Only problem now is that the hid bulb had an adaptor to fit in the lens, its the twist type with two locking tabs, the H7 halogen I tried to fit has no way to lock it in place, I guess i'm missing some locking piece for the H7 bulb, the hid adaptor doesn't allow the halogen to lock in place either. Anyone ever have this issue?

There is a small wire piece that locks the H7 in on my A4. There is no other piece to the locking mechanism. However it is also used to hold in the HID bulb.

Tropheus wrote: »

Once they're focused correctly they'll get through the NCT. I put a Passat through two weeks ago with an aftermarket HID kit and there were no issues.

Not true - my A4 with perfectly focused aftermarket HIDs failed for not having the washers. It passed no problem a year ago.

I unhooked the HIDs (I could even leave them within the light fittings and put the original H7s in) - then passed no problem.

scottp68877 · 11-03-2014 12:38am

I just bought a car and it has the H.I.D kit installed but I'm going for NCT soon so I'm just wondering if the whole kit has to be removed to put in a normal bulb(original) or can the normal bulbs just be put in as normal ?

ondafly · 11-03-2014 8:48am

just a note to say my Impreza with factory HIDs, manual sensors and no headlight washers passed

BulbGuru · 07-05-2014 9:19am

Hid setups actually put out less light than a good quality halogen bulb especially if they are higher than the standard 4300k-5000k halogen bulbs. I have experimented wit a 6000k hid kit in a van with non projector headlamps and the light is rubbish as the lamps are not designed for it and they throw the light all over the place.
I don't see that fitting a hid kit as an upgrade to your lighting.

thats not gone well · 23-05-2014 1:36pm

thats not gone well wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation being that, I wanted xenon lights the most legitimate way I could.

They were offered as an option on my car as xenon reflectors.
I bought two complete xenon units, installed and aligned them.
There's no distinguishable difference from the outside with the lights off that they are totally different from standard halogens.

Now, when they were factory fitted, washers and self levelling were fitted also.
But being a Volvo, not all cars that have headlamp washers have xenons:rolleyes:

From my understanding the NCT manual says manual adjusters are adequate as long as they work.

They washers are a different story however.
I could install a separate washer pump and jets in the bumper if required.

If there are early 00's cars that never had washers or self levelling will that mean that my set-up is equally legitimate and legal?

thats not gone well wrote: »

The wipers are a pain.
new bumper, arms and motors.

anyone that has had them on another forum in the uk took them off when the gave trouble.

The headlight swap is 2 hours work. Not the end of the world but a hassle I could do without.

Beginning to think I'd have been better off with a Chinese HID kin in the halogen lamps blinding everybody :pac:

Just a follow up,

Passed today in Limerick without mention, 6000k no washers, no self levelling.

Example of the beam cut off from a few days ago.

Chris_Heilong · 23-05-2014 2:38pm

Nice one, I will have to go trough this come October.

djimi · 23-05-2014 2:43pm

Good to hear that you had no issues. I do feel that it might be a case of some testers still turning a blind eye while others are being more strict, but hopefully some common sense is starting to be applied now.

DuckSlice · 23-05-2014 2:50pm

djimi wrote: »

Good to hear that you had no issues. I do feel that it might be a case of some testers still turning a blind eye while others are being more strict, but hopefully some common sense is starting to be applied now.

And I hope that common sense is failing the HID's in reflector headlights mainly. Washers won't make that much difference. Self levelling either. But the reflector housings are blinding!

thats not gone well · 23-05-2014 3:10pm

He had a good poke around at them but they're very discrete. I recon he spotted the fact the ballasts say Volvo on them and left it at that.

visual · 23-05-2014 3:17pm

thats not gone well wrote: »

Just a follow up,

Passed today in Limerick without mention, 6000k no washers, no self levelling.

Example of the beam cut off from a few days ago.

That beam cut off doesn't look like projector cut off is it halogen reflector housing ?

thats not gone well · 23-05-2014 3:26pm

thats not gone well wrote: »

I'm in a similar situation being that, I wanted xenon lights the most legitimate way I could.

They were offered as an option on my car as xenon reflectors.
I bought two complete xenon units, installed and aligned them.
There's no distinguishable difference from the outside with the lights off that they are totally different from standard halogens.

Now, when they were factory fitted, washers and self levelling were fitted also.
But being a Volvo, not all cars that have headlamp washers have xenons

From my understanding the NCT manual says manual adjusters are adequate as long as they work.

They washers are a different story however.
I could install a separate washer pump and jets in the bumper if required.

If there are early 00's cars that never had washers or self levelling will that mean that my set-up is equally legitimate and legal?

visual wrote: »

That beam cut off doesn't look like projector cut off is it halogen reflector housing ?

no, OEM HID reflector units

Bulb types are listed on the sticker as D2R, H7 and W5W

cormicar · 07-10-2014 10:36am

I failed on this last week. Anyone know if I can just change the bulbs in my xenon headlight and get a pass. I have a feeling the ballast also needs to be removed. Can anyone confirm how to do this and cable up new bulb.

ShaunieVW · 07-10-2014 11:25am

Have you an aftermarket kit? Just plug it all out and remove the ballasts and replace with normal halogens. Have you reflector lights or projectors?

vectra · 07-10-2014 11:44am

My old 2010 Octavia vRS passed the nct with flying colors two weeks ago and it had the Hid Kit I installed on it.
No problems.

cormicar · 07-10-2014 12:27pm

ShaunieVW wrote: »

Have you an aftermarket kit? Just plug it all out and remove the ballasts and replace with normal halogens. Have you reflector lights or projectors?

Yep - I'm pretty sure its after market. It was fitted before I bought the car. Here is 2 pics. Will a H7 bulb fit in there properly. Not sure if they are reflectors or projectors.
http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/f18/downgrade-xenon-headlight-system-stock-t263898/

I had a quick look under the bonnet and noticed only one light is hid (I think). Could that be right? Also it looks as if the original bulb wires were cut off.

This is a right PITA. Kinda hate these white lights on other cars anyway so am not going to give out too much.

Tropheus · 07-10-2014 1:14pm

My father-in-law's B5.5 Passat has had a HID kit in the projector housings for several years at this stage and had no problem with the NCT in the past. However, it was failed last month in Drogheda where it had been tested previously. They just said it was new rules and that if there was no washers and auto-levelling, the car was failed. I just left the ballasts in situ and replaced the HID bulbs with halogens and it passed.

I think failing for HIDs in reflector lenses makes sense. Failing them in well aligned projector housings is overkill.

cormicar · 07-10-2014 1:18pm

Tropheus wrote: »

My father-in-law's B5.5 Passat has had a HID kit in the projector housings for several years at this stage and had no problem with the NCT in the past. However, it was failed last month in Drogheda where it had been tested previously. They just said it was new rules and that if there was no washers and auto-levelling, the car was failed. I just left the ballasts in situ and replaced the HID bulbs with halogens and it passed.

I think failing for HIDs in reflector lenses makes sense. Failing them in well aligned projector housings is overkill.

Cheers Tropheus. I will just put in halogens and run it through so. Was your existing halogen bulb holder there and did it fit in ok into the projector headlamp. I think mine was actually cut off. Anyone know where to buy them?

Hogzy · 07-10-2014 3:57pm

Tropheus wrote: »

I think failing for HIDs in reflector lenses makes sense. Failing them in well aligned projector housings is overkill.

I disagree. Auto-leveling is very important. Otherwise any slight bump in the road will blind other drivers. You might be good at maintaining good headlight alignment but there are a lot of people out there who are not.

tossy · 07-10-2014 4:06pm

Hogzy wrote: »

I disagree. Auto-leveling is very important. Otherwise any slight bump in the road will blind other drivers. You might be good at maintaining good headlight alignment but there are a lot of people out there who are not.

Auto leveling doesn't react to bumps in the road it's not that quick, auto leveling is to adjust the headlights based on the load in the car.

Hogzy · 07-10-2014 4:29pm

tossy wrote: »

Auto leveling doesn't react to bumps in the road it's not that quick, auto leveling is to adjust the headlights based on the load in the car.

Ahh. I still wouldnt trust others to be that prudent to adjust the leveling in their cars.

Chris_Heilong · 07-10-2014 6:38pm

Its not that simple that; reflector means halogen and projector means HID, for example my car has reflector housing designed to work only with HIDS which all Chaser Tourer V cars are equipped with from factory, there is not a "normal bulb" option and no connection for a halogen bulb.

vectra · 08-10-2014 10:40am

Hogzy wrote: »

I disagree. Auto-leveling is very important. Otherwise any slight bump in the road will blind other drivers. You might be good at maintaining good headlight alignment but there are a lot of people out there who are not.

The projectors also have a very distinct cut off line so the chances of a "Bump" in the road reaults in blinding others would be as good as impossible I would say.

Gryzor · 09-10-2014 12:27pm

Failed today, 08 accord (old model). Projector lenses, washers, manual adjustment and aftermarket HID's.

Saw them having a discussion about them, lots of pointing etc going on. They didn't test the alignment, just failed it...Have passed the last two times with the same setup...

pa990 · 09-10-2014 1:35pm

Gryzor wrote: »

Failed today, 08 accord (old model). Projector lenses, washers, manual adjustment and aftermarket HID's.

Saw them having a discussion about them, lots of pointing etc going on. They didn't test the alignment, just failed it...Have passed the last two times with the same setup...

Delighted

fmcg_scribe · 09-10-2014 2:52pm

Gryzor wrote: »

Failed today, 08 accord (old model). Projector lenses, washers, manual adjustment and aftermarket HID's.

Saw them having a discussion about them, lots of pointing etc going on. They didn't test the alignment, just failed it...Have passed the last two times with the same setup...

Headlight condition and headlight aim are two separate tests in the NCT:
http://www.ncts.ie/pdf/NCT%20Manual%20July%202014.pdf

As mentioned in the PDF, the requirements for HID headlamps changed in April 2012. If your car has aftermarket or factory fitted HID lights, the key thing seems to be whether HID headlamps have been installed as a "complete type-approved system".

It sounds as though your lights do not meet that requirement. If your car passed the NCT in 2012 and 2013 with those lights, you might have grounds for appeal.

However, if the lights were fitted by you or a previous owner as aftermarket you might forced to change them.

Gryzor · 09-10-2014 3:07pm

I've been dazzled by enough of the "dish" type reflector lights with HID's fitted to see where they're coming from with this regulation. I don't believe that mine behave in the same way, so tbh they'll be going back in after I get the cert.
The main reason I use them is the amount of extra light they put on the road (and I mean on the road) compared to any halogen bulb I've tried.

ironclaw · 09-10-2014 3:14pm

Gryzor wrote: »

I don't believe that mine behave in the same way, so tbh they'll be going back in after I get the cert.

Whilst I have no reason to doubt you, have you ever driven against or in front of your own car in pitch darkness? I've rarely seen an aftermarket HID set up that was any improvement on a true set up and even more so, I've been dazzled by nearly every single one. Lights, especially HID's are non trivial, and I really wish people would either spend the proper money or not bother. Just because the road looks a little more white/blue doesn't actually mean you are seeing further. Placebo effect and all that.

fmcg_scribe · 09-10-2014 3:19pm

Gryzor wrote: »

I've been dazzled by enough of the "dish" type reflector lights with HID's fitted to see where they're coming from with this regulation. I don't believe that mine behave in the same way, so tbh they'll be going back in after I get the cert.
The main reason I use them is the amount of extra light they put on the road (and I mean on the road) compared to any halogen bulb I've tried.

Agree that HID lights are great, but if your's are not strictly legal/type-approved, you're walking a line and probably being unfair to other road users.

Gryzor · 09-10-2014 3:20pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Whilst I have no reason to doubt you, have you ever driven against or in front of your own car in pitch darkness? I've rarely seen an aftermarket HID set up that was any improvement on a true set up and even more so, I've been dazzled by nearly every single one. Lights, especially HID's are non trivial, and I really wish people would either spend the proper money or not bother. Just because the road looks a little more white/blue doesn't actually mean you are seeing further. Placebo effect and all that.

Knew that comment would get a reply

. I did get the misses to drive towards me, and while I thought it was brighter it didn't dazzle at all. Also never been flashed etc..

I disagree on the brightness. For me, they definitely put more light on the road. Can especially notice it on a dark two lane road with oncoming traffic.

fmcg_scribe · 09-10-2014 3:25pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Whilst I have no reason to doubt you, have you ever driven against or in front of your own car in pitch darkness? I've rarely seen an aftermarket HID set up that was any improvement on a true set up and even more so, I've been dazzled by nearly every single one. Lights, especially HID's are non trivial, and I really wish people would either spend the proper money or not bother. Just because the road looks a little more white/blue doesn't actually mean you are seeing further. Placebo effect and all that.

Indeed. I've owned 7 cars and 4 of the have have HID headlamps - one with HID halogen, the other three with bi-xenons.

In all four cases the lights were factory fitted. HID headlamps do make a difference especially on narrow roads. Most of the time I find that I don't have to use full beams - anyway, it's tiresome moving over and back from dipped to full beam on a busy road unless you have a headlight assistant.

vectra · 09-10-2014 3:55pm

ironclaw wrote: »

Whilst I have no reason to doubt you, have you ever driven against or in front of your own car in pitch darkness? I've rarely seen an aftermarket HID set up that was any improvement on a true set up and even more so, I've been dazzled by nearly every single one. Lights, especially HID's are non trivial, and I really wish people would either spend the proper money or not bother. Just because the road looks a little more white/blue doesn't actually mean you are seeing further. Placebo effect and all that.

I have to disagree with you there.

My past 3 cars ( all the same models ) have had Projector lamps and halogen bulbs.

I fitted HID kits to them all.
First I use 5k bulbs,
Second car I use 4300 bulbs.
current car I reverted back to the 5k bulbs again as for me they were certainly better at lighting up the road ahead of me,

This is since 2010 and have yet to have one driver flash at me.

I also took note of the cut off line before and after the HID upgrade and can most definitely say the cut off line is much sharper with the hid that with halogen bulbs.

As for lighting up the road for distance?
Can't say I did notice any improvement in "How far I could see"
But for what I could see was an immense improvement which made me feel more comfortable and safer.

ION08 · 09-10-2014 7:17pm

pa990 wrote: »

Delighted

Why?

mikeecho · 09-10-2014 7:38pm

Aftermarket hids are a pet hate of mine.

Badly setup, blinding everybody.

And dont get me going about hid fog lights

vectra · 09-10-2014 8:42pm

mikeecho wrote: »

Aftermarket hids are a pet hate of mine.

Badly setup, blinding everybody.

And dont get me going about hid fog lights

I can guarantee you mine would not blind you.

And yes. I 150% agree with you about hid fogs.
Total disaster.
I wonder do they pass the nct?

Tropheus · 09-10-2014 9:55pm

vectra wrote: »

I wonder do they pass the nct?

They're not checked. There's an Impreza around my area that drives around with HID fogs. A 747 will land on it one of these days.

vectra · 09-10-2014 11:58pm

Tropheus wrote: »

They're not checked. There's an Impreza around my area that drives around with HID fogs. A 747 will land on it one of these days.

Stupid really isn't it.

Gryzor · 10-10-2014 1:25am

vectra wrote: »

Stupid really isn't it.

There is a section on the test result form for fog lights though??

Mine is blank, cause they just failed me on basic inspection...

KNS · 10-10-2014 8:02am

Failed the other day. 03 Audi TT. HID Lamps, Mandatory Headlamp Cleaning Device not Working.

Didn't realise this was a fail. Would've checked when doing the bulbs etc. Was working last winter. Hopefully something small. Although on my track record it won't be.

HID Lights in the NCT

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