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Questions on becoming a counsellor, psychotherapist, or psychologist

  • 18-10-2010 4:12am
    #1
    Petek1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭


    So, i'm considering a carrier as a counsellor,psychotherapist, or psychologist, how do you become one?

    So if I go through college with a major in psychology, get a BA, or BSc in psychology, or a doctorate in psychology, what would i need to do to become a practitioner?






    I've locked this thread as it seems that people aren't reading it for information first and we're answering the same questions over and over. PLEASE READ THIS THREAD FIRST, BEFORE POSING YOUR QUESTION. JC


«1

Comments

  • #2
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    PLEASE READ THIS FIRST BEFORE POSTING A QUESTION OR A COMMENT


    all you need to do is set yourself up as a counsellor.

    Unfortunately that's true. And there are a good few out there with little or no education in counselling, psychology or anything else.


    With a degree in psychology, you can go into further study in any branch of psychology, including Clinical, Counselling, Occupational or Educational psychology. It's an excellent base, but is only a base.


    There are lots of other threads on the subject if you do a search. Try this one from How to find a Therapist, which lists the qualifications/affiliations/accreditations your counsellor/therapist/psychologist should have. Please remember that these terms are not interchangeable.




    Before you post your question, please do a search to see if it has already been answered. There are a LOT of repeat questions here.



    If unsure of the difference between counsellor, psychotherapist, psychologist, psychiatrist etc, please check Psychological Society of Ireland or British Psychological Society for initial information or Irish Council for Psychotherapy or even here. Thanks.


  • #3
    stuf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭stuf


    There's loads of threads in the forum about different courses available around the country.

    Basically most courses have their academics ratified by awarding university or HETAC so the academic level should be recognised in most of the anglophone world. Your suitability to practice is ratified by professional bodies such as IACP or IAHIP through an accreditation process which in some cases can lead to a European accreditation - how well that's recognised in north america I'm not sure.

    A couple of things to note though.
    22 is a bit young for psychotherapy training. Most reputable courses don't accept people under 25 for a number of reasons - I would lean towards 30+ being a better starting age. Relational psychotherapies require you to have a good understanding of your self and how you relate to others. This is part of the training but being a bit older helps.

    Also private practice psychotherapy isn't the most mobile of professions as you have to plan well in advance and wind down your client base responsibly which would leave you with a diminishing income while preparing to move.

    Not wanting to put you off but I think getting some more life experience is useful before starting. Some of the others may have suggestions as what you may do in the meantime but I didn't get into it until my late 30s and I'm only halfway through a 4 year training at the moment.


  • #4
    Old Perry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭Old Perry


    If you dont have the points from leaving cert you will qualify as a mature student next year (23) you could apply through the cao to do psychology in one of the Unis or ITs around the country, theres everything from psychology on its own , psych with arts to psych wit science. Qualifax is the main website for searching up courses in ireland.

    If you wanted to get into it straight away im sure there is part time introductory courses you can do or even better PLC (FETAC) courses which also look good if you do decide to move on to a third level college.

    NB:my understanding is that areas like counselling and psychotherapy are specialised fields which when you do apply to do them will require some experience, ie. a social care background.


  • #5
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    stuf wrote: »
    22 is a bit young for psychotherapy training. Most reputable courses don't accept people under 25 for a number of reasons - I would lean towards 30+ being a better starting age. Relational psychotherapies require you to have a good understanding of your self and how you relate to others. This is part of the training but being a bit older helps.

    I have to disagree with the 30+, yes life experience is important but if you start at 22 by the time you do a degree and masters your 27. I started working in a clinical position when I was 27, yes I did get the odd comment, but it only happened a few times that my age was mention.

    For a 22 year I would suggest a psych BA, so they have a degree and are 25 when they start clinical training. It really depends on the individual some 22 year old are very mature some 35 year old are still living like 16 year old.


  • #6
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    ebaysellerrob wrote: »
    thanks Odysseus,would any one recommend a good place that dose this sort of training or recommend one learning center over another.From what Iv read seems like they look for you to have completed a foundation course before starting...or am I wrong on that.


    No it not a must in some places, to be honest I see a place from these courses, for people who are unsure if this is the road they wish to take; or those who will not work as therapists but work in a therapeutic environment and wish to know a bit more on the topic. I teach a basic 12 introduction to a related topic myself. However, there is also a part of me that thinks they are just a way of keeping people paying fees.

    I could be wrong on this but some of the private colleges like DBS and The Independent College do not require foundation courses. As for recommendations it does really depend on whether you have a particular school of psychotherapy that you wish to study. For example unless you like Freud and Lacan The Independent College is not the place for you.

    What I would suggest you look at is a long term study plan, [this is where foundation courses can help, giving you an overview of various schools] your plan should look at further study; personally I will not refer a client to another therapist unless they are trained to Masters level. It is not a fail safe, but it does help weed out possible unsuitable therapists. So you need to look at what your course will provide in terms of access to further study.

    Personal example I suggest to most people to start with a psychology degree, my BA is in psychoanalytic studies, where I studied I could have done a psychology degree and still managed to study most of the psychoanalytic modules I covered. My regret on this is that certain post-grad courses are not an option to me as my primary degree is psychoanalysis not psychology. I am currently doing my second masters at the Royal College of Surgeons. My plan is to follow that up with another MSc in forensic psych and criminology with the OU. I can gain access to that because its not pure psychology there is criminology in it too, if it was a pure psych course I would not be accepted. So even though you are focused on getting qualified and working, you need to look at what happens next.

    The second important factor is what professional body you will get membership of; I'm a member of APPI a psychoanalytic body and the IAAAC which is a body of therapists who work in the addiction area. Now you need to be a member of a professional body to work in the HSE for example. IACP are a well known professional body, they would not accept me as they don't recognise my degree and master; however, I'm covered by my other memberships.

    A diploma will get you working in a lot of cases, but I have sat on interview boards and I generally skip over a CV if there is no post-grad study. You have missed the start of the academic year so you won't be doing any academic study until next year, so I would suggest you start to compile a file of all the courses you are interested in and do some background reading so you are in a position to make a good informed choice for next year. This is where a short course may help you as some are run twice a year, it would get you started studying and give info on various schools of psychotherapy so you can make that inform decision next year.

    It’s late so I hope that makes sense and helps you a bit.


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  • #7
    ebaysellerrob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭ebaysellerrob


    great,will prob do the foundation course.this way it will give me insight into the way I can reach my goal,and as an added benifit if Im asked about it in n interview I can tell them Iv passed that course.Is it common for for some one to get their doctorate and then apply for a second masters.For example addiction-crime


  • #8
    Torakx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    With a degree in psychology, you can go into further study in any branch of psychology, including Clinical, Counselling, Occupational or Educational psychology. It's an excellent base, but is only a base.

    I was just wondering how long roughly it takes to get this degree as i feel i really just need a base understanding to work from and also i cant keep track of all this hetac fetac stuff while figuring out timescales and grants/fees.
    i saw a course in UCD but i think as a mature student(30) i will need to have done a year of volunteering before i will be accepted in the interview.
    If i could get into a credited foundation course for this basic understanding and i am more or less around 33-35 i will probably have a really good idea then what i am suited for.
    Also i am very very nervous about all this volunteering stuff.
    I have no experience working with people and have absolutely no idea what it would be like and where to look or consider.
    My memory and motivation are 100% reliant on my ability to visualize things in my head or i am unable to SEE myself able to do it.
    Im having alot of trouble visualizing how college will be and volunteering at the same time while either on the dole or trying to make money to feed and cloth myself.
    So any help with building a clear picture i would jump at right now.


  • #9
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    I can't recommend a BA or BSc in Psychology strongly enough as a base for counselling/psychotherapy.

    It takes 3 or 4 years full-time in most colleges and universities. It can also be done through Open University.


  • #10
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    allprops wrote: »
    I should think you might need more than a base understanding. Counselling is a serious profession and a lot of damage could be done by people who think that they might be good at it. You should have proper training and supervision before you start!

    I said as a base, ie something you do first before doing something else. A base is just a base without further study- it's just a beginning.

    When you have your degree, by all means go on and study counselling.


  • #11
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    I would suggest you wait until half way through your degree until you start looking for vol work, it is not required for a psychology degree.


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  • #12
    hotspur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    Torakx you know you don't need any experience in anything (volunteering or otherwise) to do a foundation course in counselling? The purpose of them is to give people a taste of what counselling is and usually contain some personal development. They are open to anyone and last a few months.


  • #13
    juliejam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1 ✭juliejam


    BA in Psychology in DBS

    Just wanted to post up a reply to the questions regarding how to get on to a counselling course. I do not know if this advice will be helpful but i know i did a three year BA in Psychology in DBS it was tough going but well worth it. Then i went and got experience working in the mental health service, this enabled me to save for a Master's.

    As far as i know in order to practice in a professional manner you HAVE to get a Master's, there are people working out there who have done a counselling foundation course and are practicing. As counselling is not regulated there are many unqualified individuals saying they are counsellors.

    The counselling Doctorate in Trinity is difficult to get on to but is a brilliant course and it provides you with real life counselling placements in order for you to have great experience. Just thought i would give you advice about how i became a counselling psychologist.


  • #14
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    juliejam wrote: »
    As far as i know in order to practice in a professional manner you HAVE to get a Master's,

    No, to work as a counsellor within the HSE the entry qualification in most services is a Diploma, I believe it should be higher but that is the way it is. Some of the HSE services require a high qual, but in most cases it's a dip. A foundation course will of course not get you entry, but then it is not a professional qualification either. By dip I mean a level 7 qualification, not a 12 week dip.

    To become a member of a lot of professional bodies in counselling the level 7 [I think, I know a degree is 8 and post-grad is 9] dip will do, on top of supervised practice of course. Counselling psychology is of course different to counselling/psychotherapy. Things are changing thankfully, but I see part of the difficultly being that a person with a dip can go for the same position as me a psychotherapy post-grad, as in the end we are currently seen as being the same level.


  • #15
    ebaysellerrob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 100 ✭✭ebaysellerrob


    hoping to do a 12 week foundation course before I (hopefully) start an actual course in september.can any one suggest any of these,having trouble finding them online


  • #16
    hadas
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭hadas


    You need to choose a route first. Would you like to be a psychologist or a therapist?

    You can become a counselling psychologist by getting an undergrad degree in psychology and then continue on to do a MSc degree in counselling (Trinity, DCU, Cork).

    If you want to become a therapist - a two year diploma can do. Try DBS or NUIM.


  • #17
    stuf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭stuf


    hadas wrote: »
    You need to choose a route first. Would you like to be a psychologist or a therapist?

    You can become a counselling psychologist by getting an undergrad degree in psychology and then continue on to do a MSc degree in counselling (Trinity, DCU, Cork).

    If you want to become a therapist - a two year diploma can do. Try DBS or NUIM.

    not strictly true - the two year postgrad diplomas only give you a theoretical and practical basis to enter a further clinical training such as an MA in Psychotherapy. You don't actually have client facing time on the diploma courses.

    Unless you're doing a CBT PG Dip; but in that case you are a qualified mental health professional anyway, before starting the course. JC


  • #18
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    kitkat.3b4t wrote: »
    I thought most post grad courses in counselling require the student to write up case studies and have appropriate placements. Maybe you were thinking of foundation courses!

    Sadly you do not need to be a post-grad to be a psychotherapist. An under-grad Dip will get you into IACP if they stand over it. That is it then you are entitled to work as a counsellor/psychotherapist in the HSE.


  • #19
    kitkat.3b4t
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭kitkat.3b4t


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Sadly you do not need to be a post-grad to be a psychotherapist. An under-grad Dip will get you into IACP if they stand over it. That is it then you are entitled to work as a counsellor/psychotherapist in the HSE.

    I understand that an undergrad diploma is a level 7 qualification. However as far as I know people who pursue this path are maturre students who are given places on courses because of appropriate life experience and character, etc. They are also required to have a Foundation Certificate in counselling before they are accepted on a course. They also have to write up case studies and complete 100 client contact hours before they graduate - I think!

    My point here is that these undergrad diploma courses take life experience into account. Is this such a bad thing!

    I understand that this situation is difficult for counselling psychologists who have probably spent 10 years studying but end up on the same wage as someone who has only studied for 4 years. Maybe suitability for a job as a counsellor shouldn't be judged so much by academic ability. Those who become counselling psychologists are very strong academically because success in getting college places is dependent on academic results. As someone who is trying to become a registered psychologist I have been studying for the last 10 years and that doesnt include my previous Arts Degree which took 4 years. Sometimes I wonder if Ive wasted a lot of money and time and maybe I should have simply done an undergraduate diploma in counselling and by now Id have a job in the HSE and no fear of being made redundant


  • #20
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    kitkat.3b4t wrote: »
    I understand that an undergrad diploma is a level 7 qualification. However as far as I know people who persue this path are mautre students who are given places on courses because of appropriate life experience and character, etc. They are alos required to have a Foundation Certificate in counselling before they are accepted on a course. They also have to write up case studies and complete 100 client contact hours before they graduate - I think!

    My point here is that these undergrad diploma courses take life experience into account. Is this such a bad thing!

    I believe the foundation course requirement is just money making, and personally I think in the long run you have taken the right course of action. It will pay off in the long run. But my point was a Dip not a post-grad one will get a person started, correct me if I'm wrong but it appeared you thought a post-grad one was needed.


  • #21
    kitkat.3b4t
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭kitkat.3b4t


    Odysseus wrote: »
    I believe the foundation course requirement is just money making, and personally I think in the long run you have taken the right course of action. It will pay off in the long run. But my point was a Dip not a post-grad one will get a person started, correct me if I'm wrong but it appeared you thought a post-grad one was needed.

    I understand that an undergrad diploma is an acceptable qualification to get started. However for those with a degree in psychology the route to becomming a counsellor is a postgrad dip or MSc. I imagine the content of the postgrad and undergrad are the same. Ive just completed an MSc in counselling but see no hope of getting paid employment. That's why Im thinking of applying for clinical, but is it going to leave me in the same position a few years down the line, when Im older and poorer.


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  • #22
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    kitkat.3b4t wrote: »
    I understand that an undergrad diploma is an acceptable qualification to get started. However for those with a degree in psychology the route to becomming a counsellor is a postgrad dip or MSc. I imagine the content of the postgrad and undergrad are the same. Ive just completed an MSc in counselling but see no hope of getting paid employment. That's why Im thinking of applying for clinical, but is it going to leave me in the same position a few years down the line, when Im older and poorer.

    Are you doing any vol. work it can be a way to paid work. At least your ready to go now when work comes. Having done the MSc have you the i's dotted and t's crossed in terms of working as a counselling psych in the HSE? Basically if a counselling psych position came up would you be entitled to apply?

    Also you have more than likely done this but ads in shops, letters to GPs etc?

    Edit: It does bug me to see people like yourself who really put the hard work in and avoided the quick fix option not being able to get work when there are so many people with just Dips working in the HSE


  • #23
    kitkat.3b4t
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭kitkat.3b4t


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Are you doing any vol. work it can be a way to paid work. At least your ready to go now when work comes. Having done the MSc have you the i's dotted and t's crossed in terms of working as a counselling psych in the HSE? Basically if a counselling psych position came up would you be entitled to apply?

    Also you have more than likely done this but ads in shops, letters to GPs etc?

    Edit: It does bug me to see people like yourself who really put the hard work in and avoided the quick fix option not being able to get work when there are so many people with just Dips working in the HSE


    Im on the conditional register with the PSI until 2012 when I will hopefully have completed enough supervised client hours to join the proper register. Ive completed 300 postgrad client hours so I think I need another 100 before I can be registered with the IACP. I applied for 2 jobs recently where I had enough credentials, but not enough experience. I work part-time as a resource teacher which pays the bills so I cant give up the 'day job' until something better comes along, which seems unlikely at present. I do a few hours per week private practice to build up hours, but Id much rather work for an organization. I probably could also do a few hours voulantary work if I could find an organization that would have me.


  • #24
    hotspur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    kitkat.3b4t did you do your MSc in counselling psychology or in counselling?


  • #25
    kitkat.3b4t
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭kitkat.3b4t


    hotspur wrote: »
    kitkat.3b4t did you do your MSc in counselling psychology or in counselling?

    Counselling


  • #26
    PensiveJane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭PensiveJane


    my question is similar to the above, about becoming a counsellor/psychotherapist/social worker or something in this field.

    I am 24 years old. I did my Leaving Cert (2005) and at the time was aiming for Primary School Teaching. I missed the points and so went for my next choice which was a BA in UCD.

    .... In the time that I've spent since leaving college (it's been about 2 years), I have decided that I don't want to become a teacher. ...

    I want to return to 3rd level education in Sept 2011, but I'm just not sure what kind of a course to go for. The long-term plan is to do a 4 year undergrad and then a Masters and then maybe go on to do some kind of Doctoral. I am presuming that once I am knee deep in a Bachelors Degree then I will become aware of the different fields of study and what I am specifically interested in pursuing at Masters level and then whether or not I want to study further.

    At the moment I am doing an evening course, two nights a week, run by the UCD Adult Education Centre, which is the Certificate in Communication Skills. It is Level 7 on the HETAC framework and I am hoping it will help me to apply for an undergrad as a mature student. I just don't know where to start with choosing an undergrad, and I am in dire need of some direction!

    If anyone could offer any advice it would be HUGELY appreciated.

    And if I have not followed the rules about the forum etc in anyway, please let me know!


  • #27
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Hi PensiveJane,

    Firstly, congrats on getting back into the system with your current course. To be a counsellor/psychotherapist all that is required currently is a Dip with a clinical training. However, things are changing firstly it comes down to cash, can you afford a private college or are you dependent on going through the system for want of a better description.

    Even though their are counselling degrees out there, I recommend that people get a psych degree, I am working as a psychotherapist for over 13 years, my BA and MA are in psychoanalysis, I'm happy with that, but sometimes I think I would have been better with a psych degree, just in that it opens a wider range of post-grad courses. I would still work psychoanalytically, but a psych degree would open a few more doors.

    If you decide to go for a counselling degree, have you read any specific theories? There is no point in being into one from of therapy and ending up studying another, and some course are very specific in the modality they teach. You can do post-grad and PhD level studies in psychotherapy, DCU have a Doctorate in Psychotherapy.

    Remember with psychotherapy training there is not only the course fees but also personal therapy and supervision fees as well.


  • #28
    Torakx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    When you talk of the psyche degree that may open more doors later, do you mean something like a U.C.D foundation 3-4 year course?
    I would love to get onto this course but it is five thousand euros for the fees.


  • #29
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Torakx wrote: »
    When you talk of the psyche degree that may open more doors later, do you mean something like a U.C.D foundation 3-4 year course?
    I would love to get onto this course but it is five thousand euros for the fees.

    I basically mean any psych degree which entitles a person to become a gradute member of PSI. I don't know where you are getting foundation from 3-4 years is a degree.


  • #30
    Torakx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Oops a 3-4 year course i had thought of as a foundation or base to start from.Im also one confused fella when it comes to words like msc ba bsc etc
    I think/memorise visually and wont remember too easily what each represent unless i have made a picture in my head first to remind me later.So even though i have researched these on websites from the colleges its very hard for me to remember based on just the print with nothing else to go off.
    It worries me that it may also effect my learning in college and that i may need to do it online or double study my own way on top of the school study if college is all linear learning.
    I tend to learn much faster when i can see the goal and im let loose with grabbing info from all stages at the same time.Ive gotten the impression(which could be false) that i will have to be restricted to one topic at a time inan orderly fashion.Hence the fear of having to do my own research ahead while i do the course like everyone else.

    My memory may be playing tricks with me, but i thought the undergraduate course was 3-4 years long in U.C.D for example at roughly 5000 euro

    So if im correct, to choose a more flexible route i could do the undergraduate degree(no volunteering needed or experience in volunteering?)at 5k euro, then after or during those 3 years get a job or volunteer for experience and follow up with a post graduate? probably another 5k euro(3 years?) in psychology to have more choices in the areas i wish to pursue.
    This would be 6 years of training so a big commitment i dont take lightly.
    Do you know roughly what areas and jobs that could set someone up for?

    I see you mention psychotherapy includes lots of personal development.
    I really feel i have covered most of this over the last few years and peaked around now,so not too enthusiastic about doing it all again.Although i do see the advantage in knowing from experience the other side of the "table" so to speak.

    I would be interested in knowing how psycho-analysis study went for you also.I think Carl Jung may have favoured that and he was a bit of an inspiration to me albeit maybe outdated these days.

    Lastly i want to thank all who are replying to these questions.Its much appreciated and i hope in future will be earned :)


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  • #31
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Torakx, may I make a suggestion forget about which course from a moth or two; have a look at some academic texts not popular psych, and see what you make of it.

    I have had five years of training analysis, three of them where twice a week. I have external supervision twice a month from the HSE 1.5hrs individual and 1.5hrs group, and top of this I have extra supervision from an APPI every fortnight I pay for that myself.

    My point being there is always room for more personal work, I don't mean this in a bad way; you still only starting out. However, you have a poor understanding of psychology/psychotherapy at the moment. At this stage it is not about your opinion, but you understanding of the leading therapists in the field. Academically you only get an opinion after your post-grad training. I don't mean to be hard on you here.

    However, there is nothing worse than listening to a person going on in a lecture about what they think when they have not read the main thoughts in that area if you get my point.

    Getting reading some core texts and I'll gladly answer any questions you have if I can.

    When I get my PhD which if my plan goes the way I want I will have my degree and three Masters, as well as by that time nearly 20 years of clinical experience, I might be entitled to a valid academic opinion them. So I saying it applies to me too, when most posters disagree here their disagreemnt am based upon different schools of thought they studied not what they just think?

    Also you personal development was done by yourself am I correct, if so it does not count. I can't take myself on as a client if you get my point.


  • #32
    Torakx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    Ye i know what you mean :)
    I dont take much personal so being blunt with me is appreciated.I am here for answers!
    Alot of my researching indeed has been bits here and there.As i came across something in myself that i was suddenly aware of i would start googling different solutions and then learning as much as i could possibly through pop psychology aswell as blogs and sites from some academics to figure myself out.Thats what i ment by personal development i suppose.

    Had been doing this for the last few years and as i said it all recently clicked together for me and im doing amazing,its almost like a miracle.
    The real meaning of personal development in psychology might be more detailed and greater in depth so your point is taken.Im just getting frustrated that its taken me til 30 to figure myself out even though i had a bit of a rough life in some ways.Im very eager to get started on a new line of work and exploring, but FEEL like everything is against me especially being out of work now too.
    I will be taking your advice on a basic understanding as you said in another thread.My path is a short course maybe with a fas grant.Then hopefully that will get me a mature place in ucd or trinity as an undergraduate.
    The hurdle at the moment appears to be five thousand euro for step 2.
    Theres probably no answer to that one only...get a job somehow.

    For now though im finding this very helpfull http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/#brain-and-cognitive-sciences
    Appreciate any other links to basic information.Even really really basic stuff.As long as its applicable il probably read it.
    Thanks for your patience too.I know im a pain in the ass :)


  • #33
    hotspur
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,327 ✭✭✭hotspur


    Torakx why do you think you need to pay €5k for an undergraduate degree in UCD or TCD? If you're genuinely considering it I think you need to use your Googling skills to find out about free fees. And the fact that you are on social welfare means you should also be looking into back to education allowances.


  • #34
    kitkat.3b4t
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭kitkat.3b4t


    Odysseus wrote: »
    Hi PensiveJane,

    I recommend that people get a psych degree

    Although I agree that a psychology degree is a great foundation for psychotherapy, the academic requiments are very high. For your psych degree to be worth the paper its written you need to get at least a 2.1 classification which means an average of at least 70% in all exams etc and this only qualifies you to apply for postgrad places. There is a lot of competition for these courses so a 2.1 degree doesnt guarantee anything. After graduating with a 2.1 degree in psychology in 2006, I realized that this was only the start and although I had found it really hard to maintain high grades and complete the degree, I was effectivelly still not qualified for anything.


  • #35
    Torakx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,831 ✭✭✭Torakx


    hotspur wrote: »
    Torakx why do you think you need to pay €5k for an undergraduate degree in UCD or TCD? If you're genuinely considering it I think you need to use your Googling skills to find out about free fees. And the fact that you are on social welfare means you should also be looking into back to education allowances.

    Thanks for the reminder.I keep hitting mental blocks with finding a course i feel i can apply to.the fact i use the word feel should say alot lol.I am not confident using forms and organising these kind of things.
    A month or so ago i thought i needed volunteering experience to get into the undergraduat course as a mature student.Then that gets forgotten as i started looking at courses relating to fees and grants.Im just too unorganised with this stuff to find my way it seems.
    Ive heard there is even a county council grant possible,but i have such an unstable life monetarily speaking that i could be homeless after the next budget cuts in january.This doesnt fill me with confidence doing a 3 year plus course either.
    Back to education allowance i think effects me in different ways,dont remember what it was that put me off when i read about it,but my future security lik a roof over my head probably conflicted somehow.Im probably just plain wrong but its how i FEEl at the moment.
    Im still feeling really good compared to a month ago and keeping very busy though.Thats why im taking so long to decide anyway.I am a perfectionist at heart and find it hard to commit to something unless i can fully visualise and feel safe that its possible for me to do.
    There is probably no helping me to be honest and i shouldnt be pestering you folks.I will have to just take a leap of faith soon.
    On the upside i just heard trinity college have a free access program that takes in 20 students a year.So that might be a good starting point as they cover psychology in that among other topics.


  • #36
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    kitkat.3b4t wrote: »
    Odysseus wrote: »
    Hi PensiveJane,

    I recommend that people get a psych degree

    Although I agree that a psychology degree is a great foundation for psychotherapy, the academic requiments are very high. For your psych degree to be worth the paper its written you need to get at least a 2.1 classification which means an average of at least 70% in all exams etc and this only qualifies you to apply for postgrad places. There is a lot of competition for these courses so a 2.1 degree doesnt guarantee anything. After graduating with a 2.1 degree in psychology in 2006, I realized that this was only the start and although I had found it really hard to maintain high grades and complete the degree, I was effectivelly still not qualified for anything.



    To be fair I have to agree with you Kitkat, I think the psych degree is the best long term option, but for other a psychotherapy degree would be the best option as they can at least start workiong at that point. Though they still need to aim for the 2.1, I needed a 2.1 for my masters, the clinical masters required a 2.2, but the research one required a 2.1.


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  • #37
    PensiveJane
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭PensiveJane


    Hi all,

    Thanks very much for the help. I'm dreading this decision, I've only a few months before I've to apply for courses and haven't decided on anything yet! eek.gif (By the way, anyone with advice on Mature Student applicants, grants etc, feel free to impart on me anything that you know!)

    After your suggestion of doing a Psych degree, Odysseus, I've started to think about it. I hadn't put much thought before into doing a broader, more general undergrad degree first. I was considering something specific, like psychotherapy or psychoanalysis etc because I wanted to have the future career as a goal to get me through it (I know that sounds silly, but it seemed to motivate me a bit), but it would make sense to do something that gives me a broader choice afterwards. I guess my fear was that I have studied Psychology before and dropped out so there's a chance that it could happen again... but then the thing is, I was only studying it as just one of three subjects in a BA so I wasn't specifically focussed on it, and also the timing had been wrong. I think another fear is that with a Psychology degree, I might be put off by having to study some things which might not be particularly relevant to what I'll be doing in the future. As an example, I don't have a huge interest in the biology of the brain etc, so having to study all of those medical terms etc doesn't really excite me. I remember sitting in the library trying to study for an assignment or an exam, reading about how our eyes work and thinking to myself, 'This is so irrelevant to my future.' Whereas I imagine a degree in Psychotherapy to be more focussed on... well... learning how to provide psychological therapy to people! Less about the body and more about the person and their behaviour and thoughts and emotions.

    What do you guys think of all this? Does anybody think that it's worrying that I'm not hugely interested in the science part? Is that an indicator that I shouldn't do Psychology/Psychotherapy, but do something like Social Work instead? I'm just not so sure that Social Work is the road I should take. It just doesn't seem to fit, in my mind.

    I have another question. I was mucking about on the internet and decided to get in touch with IACP and a few other associations to ask about accreditation, why they recognise some psychotherapy courses over others etc, and I got speaking to a lady from ICP (Irish Council for Psychotherapists) who, after I explained that I was trying to choose a course, directed me to this web page and suggested that I look into these 5 disciplines to see if I find any of them particularly interesting, so that I might be able to look into a course relevant to my interests. I think this is probably quite important as I have never thought before about what kind of approach I would take as a psychotherapist, whether I would follow one specific discipline or the other etc, and I don't want to end up in a course that deals with a discipline that isn't my style or something.

    So... I was just wondering if anyone would mind telling me which of these disciplines you would be most interested in and why? Does anyone have a specific like or dislike for any particular discipline of psychotherapy and why? Does anyone have a lot of experience in any particular discipline, and could you give me an idea of what it is like, the methods you use, the kind of issues you deal with? (For example, I have come across a course that is specifically for dealing with addiction, and it has made me think about whether or not there would be different methods required for different types of client etc...)

    Here is the webpage:
    http://www.psychotherapy-ireland.com/disciplines/


    Again, thanks to all of you who reply. You're an absolute lifeline to a very lost-but-determined-to-find-her-way girl!

    X Jane

    P.S. I have found a thread on here somewhere that was in the Psychology section, where people have just been posting a quick bit about themselves and what field of psychology they work in etc. Does anyone think that there would be any problem with me posting that last paragraph from this note onto that other thread, as a lot of people in that group would see it and I could find out a lot from them?


  • #38
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    PensiveJane, I guess what I'm saying is a long term plan I would suggest to somebody would be the Psych route, even if they then train and work as a counsellor or psychotherapist. Having the Psych degree just give you a better edge than not having one when it come to further training.

    However, if you are interested in a certain area of psychotherapy for example you metioned psychoanalysis, go for it. However, the two BA's I know of that deal mostly with psychoanalysis do not supply any type clinical training. When I was doing my degree in psychoanalysis I started my own clinical training under supervision as a therapist, I doubt you can do that now. So if you go for one of those degrees you would be in the same position as doing a psych degree, except the psych degree would open a few more doors. Clinically having a degree in psychoanalysis/psychotherapeutic studies does not qualify you for anything except post-grad training.

    The other viable option is to do either a degree or diploma in counselling or psychotherapy which includes a clinical training, so when you finsh that you can at least work whilst your doing your post-grad training.

    I'm a psychoanalyst, I done a 12 introduction to psychology course about 14 years ago, I was introduced to the work of Freud there. It made sense to me, and I started to read more, the following year I started a BA in Psychoanalytic Studies, which led to my MA in Psychoanalysis. So to answer your question that is how I got started.

    If you decide to go for a psychotherapy degree DBS and PCI college would be good starting places, their training degrees are give you an introduction to a wide range of psychotherapy models. Does that make things a tad clearer?


  • #39
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    PensiveJane wrote: »
    Hi all,


    P.S. I have found a thread on here somewhere that was in the Psychology section, where people have just been posting a quick bit about themselves and what field of psychology they work in etc. Does anyone think that there would be any problem with me posting that last paragraph from this note onto that other thread, as a lot of people in that group would see it and I could find out a lot from them?

    I can't see why not, you mean the Introduce yourself thread? Either that or just post a bit about yourself.


    Also just to add I work mostly in the area of Addiction, my private work at the moment is teaching, whilst putting a course together is a lot of work, it is not a big of a committment as taking on private clients.


  • #40
    KatieDot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15 ✭KatieDot


    hi all,

    just wanted to post because I've finnished a psychology degree and admit that I made a mistake...I wanted a broad base and so studied psychology (70%) with sociology (30%) for a BA, I graduated in 2009 with a 1:1. Now, Ive had to do a conversion with the open univeristy (another year and a half studing to convert my degree to pure psych!). I've also got a first class Masters in social care and am trying to get work (was temp-ing but hse layoffs have hit me hard). I volunteer and always have but that is also competitive to get into. I work a desk job fulltime to pay for all my study.

    For those of you out there trying to get into psychology. its amazing, and i wish you luck. but, word to the wise, its not a straightforward position, nor is it easy. The courses are hard and finding work, even unpaid, is harder. I love it but it takes a lot.

    So...long tale short...research the end goal, to at least have a fague idea of where you would like to go and how that might happen, before you start is the advice that i would give! And remember,a BA takes 3-4 years, a masters 1.5 and most working in the field study much more on top of that :-)

    good luck
    (ps hope i dont sound patronising, just wish I had known how competitative the 'industry' was and prepared myself a bit better before i had gone down the 'psychology' path!!!)


  • #41
    Kindnessnow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Kindnessnow


    I'm studying Counselling and Psychotherapy in NCPII. Im truly loving the course although I am finding it very hard , both work load and emotional baggage that gets brought up with each new module. The college seems to be very proactive and has the finger on the pulse. They also offer some great masters programes. They have now set up their own governing body. So far so good...............:)


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  • #42
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Kindnessnow wrote: »
    They also offer some great masters programes. They have now set up their own governing body.

    This might be considered seriously morally and ethically suspect.... to run a course and then accredit their own ex-students.

    For a profession where ethics is extremely important, there are an awful lot of unethical and money-grabbing 'therapists' around; some unaccredited, some accredited. I have heard some awful stories from clients.

    Most professional organisations are neutral and not allied with any particular institute. There are far too many of these professional bodies in Ireland. We have a small population, and a smaller population of therapists/counsellors. One should suffice for all counsellors - instead there are I think 4 or 5 at this stage.



    .


  • #43
    Uhuru
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭Uhuru


    You might also want to consider the market. Currently, in Ireland there are many counselling and psychotherapy programs churning out hundreds of graduates every year. Most of these are legitimate. However, the field is now saturated with more and more counselors chasing the same shrinking clientele. To enter this field would need to be a burning desire of yours to make it a wise choice.


  • #44
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Uhuru wrote: »
    You might also want to consider the market.

    A very valid point, and have stated here I would not like to be starting out again, but with saying I know lots of people who end up in associated fields and either work their way up or over time develop a small practice as a second job. So I saying I would still go for it, with some minor chages.

    In the same way a lot of us lecture part time, a degree is never wasted imo, some of the people I trained with ended in in positions like advertising or HR. This is even truer if you do a psych degree as a starting point.


  • #45
    Laydee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭Laydee


    Hi,

    I have a friend looking to study psychology now, he is planning to apply as a mature student so will do the foundation course to boost his chances getting into the university course. He is almost 30 but when he was younger (19) he was caught up in some trouble (he didn't explain so I don't really know what).
    My question is, is garda clearance required for the foundation course or the university course?


  • #46
    elfan
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭elfan


    Hi Laydee,
    I studied psychology at under-graduate level in Ireland and no police clearance was required.
    I then went to the UK for post graduate level and both courses I have been on required a police CRB. Plus many psychology jobs in the UK reguire you to get an up to date CRB check done to work there (e.g. mental health hospital).
    I'm sure other posters will be able to clarify whether police checks are involved in post graduate study/psychology jobs in Ireland.


  • #47
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Laydee wrote: »
    My question is, is garda clearance required for the foundation course or the university course?

    It can vary, what you are talking about it iime and distance. The longer the person is away for the act, I know some people in varying aspects of the HSE with criminal histories some quite serious. How been say ten years for the serious stuff, you can show person improvenment and of coure the fact that the person have diffiferent way of life, meaning not convictions in those ten years,

    As under-grade I wouldn't it as a probem , bit beast to be honest from the other starte.


    Hope that helps you friens a bit.


  • #48
    Laydee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 375 ✭✭Laydee


    Thanks for the replies, they are very helpful.
    As far as I know whatever he was convicted of just carried a caution & a fine or something, I think it might have been for having hash on him. He's 10 years older now & a completely different person. I just wanted to make sure that he wasn't going to run into difficulty. I'm doing nursing at the moment & there's garda clearance requirements for every aspect of my career so I was worried that it might be similar for psychology.

    He plans to do the introduction course & at a glance it seems that Plunkett college & Dun Laoghaire college have the best course content. It might be a long shot but do you know anything about the introduction courses & which ones are considered better? I asked the head of psychology in my university & she recommended the Plunkett college one & Dun Laoghaire seems to be pretty much the same.


  • #49
    grathu
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭grathu


    To answer your question or not, i.e answer it for your self! Why do you want to become a councilor? What is it that you want to find the answers to? I have found in my profession as Social Care Worker that some wanna be councilors are looking for answer to their own past experiences, they seek to find the answers in their clients, which when you think of if is '****ed up' as you are using others to resolve your own issues. Think about it hard and long, reflect upon it and should you feel the same after this precess then peruse a career in it. All the best, grathu.:)


  • #50
    sambuka41
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,083 ✭✭✭sambuka41


    grathu wrote: »
    Why do you want to become a councilor? What is it that you want to find the answers to? I have found in my profession as Social Care Worker that some wanna be councilors are looking for answer to their own past experiences,

    Yeah I've been working as a Social Care Worker for a few years now and have met more than a few of these folks!! But its for this reason that personal therapy is part of the training, to stop people bringing their own issues into the session. Its also very helpful for understanding the theory itself when you've lived through it! ;)


  • #51
    Odysseus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,754 ✭✭✭Odysseus


    Laydee wrote: »
    My question is, is garda clearance required for the foundation course or the university course?

    It can vary, what you are talking about it iime and distance. The longer the person is away for the act, I know some people in varying aspects of the HSE with criminal histories some quite serious. How been say ten years for the serious stuff, you can show person improvenment and of coure the fact that the person have diffiferent way of life, meaning not convictions in those ten years,

    As under-grade I wouldn't it as a probem , bit beast to be honest from the other starte.


    Hope that helps you friens a bit.


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