Motor Car Accident Boley 1908

The Kurgan · 31-12-2013 6:38pm #1

Just wondering whether anyone might know where I might be able to find details
of a fatal accident one of my ancestors was involved in, It was 1908.

Was lucky enough to stumble upon a link with a roadside inscription & photo.

Erected by his comrades
in memory of
Andrew Carton,
Boley
killed here by a motor car
May 23rd 1908,
aged 21 years
RIP

http://www.irishroadside.com/clogh.htm

Waitsian · 31-12-2013 6:42pm

The Kurgan wrote: »

Just wondering whether anyone might know where I might be able to find details
of a fatal accident one of my ancestors was involved in, It was 1908.

You're best bet really is a newspaper from the time.

Aineoil · 31-12-2013 6:53pm

The Kurgan wrote: »

Just wondering whether anyone might know where I might be able to find details
of a fatal accident one of my ancestors was involved in, It was 1908.

Was lucky enough to stumble upon a link with a roadside inscription & photo.

Erected by his comrades
in memory of
Andrew Carton,
Boley
killed here by a motor car
May 23rd 1908,
aged 21 years
RIP

http://www.irishroadside.com/clogh.htm

I found a link online that mentions the accident.

http://wexfordcountyarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/13th-June-1908-Vol.-3-Pages-279-301.pdf

Scroll down to page 292 of the ledger.

johnny_doyle · 31-12-2013 6:58pm

mentioned in Westminster debate

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/commons/1908/jul/02/ballinclare-motor-fatality

The Kurgan · 31-12-2013 8:09pm

Wow that was quick,

Makes very interesting reading and puts a story to an innoccious cross at the side of a country road and the people behind the event,

Will try get some more information from papers as suggested by mod9maple

Thanks a mill Aineoil ,Johnny

Aineoil · 31-12-2013 8:19pm

Hi there The Kurgan,

Any ideas on why Andrew's headstone was erected "by his comrades"? I'm just curious. Looking back into history of a family is like trying to complete a jigsaw puzzle.

If you google the 1901 Irish census you'll find Andrew there aged 13.

Here's a link

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai001279294

It's a very sad story.

Sorry the link I posted doesn't seem to work.

The Kurgan · 31-12-2013 8:56pm

Aineoil,

Yes need to see if I can get some more detailed info as to what the comrades refers to

The Carton family in General seemed to have a lot of hard Luck through the generations,
There was a history of heart disease in the family and lot of his siblings died quite young , even had a relative move up to Dublin only to catch TB and eneded up in the "Pigeon House" Ringsend at the age of 36, from which he never recovered.

They didn't have much luck it seems.

shanew · 31-12-2013 9:12pm

The Kurgan wrote: »

....., even had a relative move up to Dublin only to catch TB and eneded up in the "Pigeon House" Ringsend at the age of 36, from which he never recovered.....

sound like a reference to the Allan Ryan Hospital - think some photos of that popped up somewhere recently... cant remember where at the moment

The Kurgan · 31-12-2013 9:20pm

Spot on Shanew , have attached the only photo I could find of it ..
Think it closed around 1950,

shanew · 31-12-2013 9:31pm

I think that building turned out to be too small ?

should have room for 50 beds, and it was located a little nearer to the power station. Think the photo was on DublinForum.net ..

The Kurgan · 31-12-2013 10:41pm

Have a feeling Andrew's Brother Patrick Carton might well be the same Patrick Carton who was a member of the Irish Volunteers, from teh statement below

The Patrick Carton in my tree from Ballinclare was married to a Margaret Lawless & his sister Winefred Carton was married to a James Quinn, all of which surnames appear in the statement below..

Patrick died 1961

http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS1160.pdf#page=1

Wont jump to any conclusions be will definately be something worth following up, Also might tie together the inscription of "comrades " on the memorial to Andrew Carton..

shanew · 01-01-2014 11:09am

found those photos - referred to as Smallpox isolation hospital at the Pigeon house.

The c1900 OSI and later maps show two buildings labelled 'Isolation Hospital', running roughly east/west.

There's a red brick building of about the right age at the correct location that may have been part of the hospital.

According to The Pigeon House web site the area of the hospital as later used as 'builder’s merchants, although all the original buildings remained'. Looks like a waste collection/recycling company on street view.

The Kurgan · 01-01-2014 1:37pm

Some great photos there Shanew, fair play for tracking them down, I'd say Pigeon House was a grim place to end up .

Tracked down an article on the Boley accident from The Irish Independent 26.05.1908 , gives a little bit more detail on the circumstances ,

Thanks for all the help , it's great to be able to put the pieces of the jigsaw together as Aineoil says.and bring back an ancestors story no matter how sad it might be..

IrishIndependant 26.05.1908.jpg

johnny_doyle · 01-01-2014 5:02pm

The Kurgan wrote: »

The Patrick Carton in my tree from Ballinclare was married to a Margaret Lawless & his sister Winefred Carton was married to a James Quinn, all of which surnames appear in the statement below..

Patrick died 1961

do the names in this Vote of Sympathy tally (page 31)?

http://wexfordcountyarchive.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/February-1961.pdf

johnny_doyle · 01-01-2014 5:11pm

shanew wrote: »

The c1900 OSI and later maps show two buildings labelled 'Isolation Hospital', running roughly east/west.

I see the Coastguard Station just before the hospital. A Gt Grandfather was stationed there till about 1908

shanew · 01-01-2014 5:20pm

johnny_doyle wrote: »

I see the Coastguard Station just before the hospital. A Gt Grandfather was stationed there till about 1908

I've a coastguard ancestor also - although quite a bit earlier. A gtgtgt-grandfather who served in Bray, Dalkey, Lambay, Clogher Head, Folkestone (Kent) and Blackrock, Cork

sorry for diverting from the original Carton topic, but back to the Hospital for one last find - wasn't 100% convinced at first, but now pretty certain that red brick building fits, and also matches the b/w photo, which is taken from the other side of the building, on eastern side (i.e. nearer the Pigeon House) and looking towards town. Even the skylights on the single story section of the building fit.

p.s. @jd, have your map safe and sound, will be in touch about getting it back to you.

johnny_doyle · 01-01-2014 7:38pm

another Co Wexford Andrew Carton

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Dublin/North_City/Henry_Street/1332701/

This chap joined the Royal Garrison Artillery in 1903, heading off to Singapore and then Hong Hong. Appears to have stayed in Hong Kong and joined the Police force there.

The Kurgan · 17-01-2014 11:28pm

Final info on Boley Crash for the moment

Thanks Johnny for the hint on the other Andrew Carton, I remember seeing
his name come up on family search in wills and administration link below.....

Just as a matter of interest how did you find out he went to singapore then Hong Kong ??

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-23409-20298-76?cc=1921305&wc=M9QR-RT8:n1480145443

johnny_doyle · 17-01-2014 11:41pm

The Kurgan wrote: »

Thanks Johnny for the hint on the other Andrew Carton, I remember seeing
his name come up on family search in wills and administration link below.....

Just as a matter of interest how did you find out he went to singapore then Hong Kong ??

He has a service record available on Ancestry.

I spent a couple of years in Singapore. Nice place to get posted to.

The Kurgan · 18-01-2014 12:03am

Ah yes just found them now, gives me a possible DOB , time to add to my research request list me thinks .... strong possibility there's a link as there wasn't too many Cartons round Camolin / Gorey way at the time ..

sawdoubters · 18-01-2014 12:05am

which roadside

sawdoubters · 18-01-2014 12:07am

http://www.irishroadside.com/clogh.htm

sawdoubters · 18-01-2014 12:15am

heres another carton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Carton_de_Wiart

sawdoubters · 18-01-2014 12:18am

Ballinclare Motor Fatality.

HC Deb 02 July 1908 vol 191 c943 943

§ SIR THOMAS ESMONDE (Wexford, N.)
To ask Mr. Attorney-General for Ireland if the attention of the Government has been called to the case of Andrew Carton, of Boley, who was killed by a motor car at Ballinclare, between Gorey and Camolin, County Wexford, on 23rd May; whether they have received a resolution from the Camolin and Ballyduff Farmers' Association, requesting to have the inquest on this case reopened; and what steps they propose to take in the matter.

(Answered by Mr. Cherry.) I am informed that the evidence given at the inquest in this case showed that the young man Carton lost control of the bicycle which he was riding and collided with a motor car, thereby losing his life. The driver of the motor car is stated to have himself narrowly escaped losing his life owing to his efforts to avoid the bicycle. The coroner's jury exonerated the driver of the motor car from blame, and the Government are not aware of any reason why the matter should be reopened. The resolution referred to has not been received.

johnny_doyle · 18-01-2014 12:53am

The Kurgan wrote: »

Ah yes just found them now, gives me a possible DOB , time to add to my research request list me thinks .... strong possibility there's a link as there wasn't too many Cartons round Camolin / Gorey way at the time ..

yes, not too common a name. I have to deal with Doyle in Enniscorthy; might as well be Smith.

Good luck with your research.

Waitsian · 18-01-2014 5:05am

johnny_doyle wrote: »

yes, not too common a name. I have to deal with Doyle in Enniscorthy; might as well be Smith.

Funny you should mention those names...

My maternal gran was a Doyle and her people are from Newtownhamilton in South Armagh. They seem to be the only Doyle family in the area. It means making connections is relatively easy, going back about 200 years too.

As for my Smith and Brady ancestors in Cavan! Yikes. :eek:

Hermy · 18-01-2014 1:11pm

mod9maple wrote: »

As for my Smith and Brady ancestors in Cavan! Yikes. :eek:

Ah, you knew the Smiths from Cavan too.
Did you happen to know Margaret?:(:p

The Kurgan · 06-04-2014 1:07pm

Was lucky enough to get my hands on a copy of "Camolin Parish through the Ages" by John G Kavanagh . Father Joe Kavanagh Camolin P.P also deserves a pat on the back for his work on this.

Which basically tells the story of the parish though a vast 672 pages .Filled full of detail ,cross referencing the NLI ,military records,Church & School records,a huge amount of photographs of past locals ,stories ,events,humour,grief,bizarre events ,old wives tales ...I could go on on it but lets say it's a gem !!

On page 380 low and behold there's the Boley accident of 1908.
4 pages of the actual inquest in the Boardroom of the workhouse.

Witnesses include the Chauffeur,occupants of the car, Andrew Carton, and nearby witness.
Very intriguing stuff as both witnesses and occupants are cross examined..

There are more pages dedicated to Patrick Carton who as far as i know was he older brother.

http://www.bureauofmilitaryhistory.ie/reels/bmh/BMH.WS1160.pdf#page=1

But that's for another day

Qualitymark · 14-04-2014 9:54am

This is the only Andrew Carton of the right age in Wexford in the 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Rosbercon/Raheen/690653/

but Raheen seems far from Camolin…?

The TB question: I know that after the Civil War large numbers of Republicans who'd been on their keeping died within months of TB, partly because they were semi-starved and perhaps partly because a lot of them were hidden in byres and dungheaps where they would have come into close contact with infected cattle.

The tone of the investigation of the crash sounds as if it's 'political' - as if there's a question of whether this young man actually did lose his control and crash into the car, or whether his death was considered a little too convenient. Have to say, it sounds like an innocent, tragic crash, though.

But if you're interested in the politics, I'm sure it'd be easy to rustle up an IRB/Fenian historian who can tell you more about the family's politics of the time, OP.

The Kurgan · 14-04-2014 10:56am

Here are the Carton's of Boley 1901 :

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Wexford/Rossminoge/Boley_Upper/1792932/

& 1911 census

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Wexford/Rossminoge/Boley__Lower/683563/

Obviously Andrew carton had died by 1911 , and his sister Winefred had married a James Quinn whose names also pops up with references to the North Wexford Column & Patrick carton.

i'll see if I can scan in the inquest as an attachment as it is very intriguing ..

The Kurgan · 14-04-2014 8:41pm

Just to bring Andrew Carton's tragic story to a conclusion I've attached the Inquest the accident taken from John G Kavanghs "Camolin Parish through the Ages" .

Thanks again John!!

Motor Car Accident Boley 1908

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