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Arch tech sign off for mortgage

  • 22-11-2014 8:16pm
    #1
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭


    On aib's costing template for a self build , there is a list of people who can fill the form and issue Certs etc . Members of CIAT is one of them

    I thought with the new regulations that it had to be an architect / engineer that could fill this up.BOI insist on this but the AIB form seems to accept s lot more

    I am applying for a mortgage with aib at the moment for an unfinished house and am using an arch tech for this - house is built for several years and just needs mostly internal finishing so I don't believe the 2014 changes are relevant anyway but I'm just wondering

    Any opinions ?


Comments

  • #2
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    AC's are not needed for ALL developments and people may need mortgage drawdowns for those works, for instance any agricultural development works, extensions under 40 sq m, etc.


  • #3
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    AC's are not needed for ALL developments and people may need mortgage drawdowns for those works, for instance any agricultural development works, extensions under 40 sq m, etc.

    Yeah but that's not written anywhere by aib. The self build form has 7 bodies they can be a part of and that's for a full house build


  • #4
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    Have you rang the bank to find out?


  • #5
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    Have you rang the bank to find out?

    No. Was in local branch and she gave me the form. She said as long as the person is a member of one of the listed bodies then it's fine . CIAT is one of those listed

    I just don't see how this can be if it's illegal


  • #6
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    mickman wrote: »
    No. Was in local branch and she gave me the form. She said as long as the person is a member of one of the listed bodies then it's fine . CIAT is one of those listed

    I just don't see how this can be if it's illegal

    How is it illegal?

    AC's are needed to sign off the building works in compliance with Building Regulations, for title purposes.

    Signing off for bank purposes is different.


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  • #7
    Poor Uncle Tom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,546 ✭✭✭✭Poor Uncle Tom


    mickman wrote: »
    No. Was in local branch and she gave me the form. She said as long as the person is a member of one of the listed bodies then it's fine . CIAT is one of those listed

    I just don't see how this can be if it's illegal

    How is it illegal?

    AC's are needed to sign off the building works in compliance with Building Regulations, for title purposes.

    Signing off for bank purposes is different.


  • #8
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »
    How is it illegal?

    AC's are needed to sign off the building works in compliance with Building Regulations, for title purposes.

    Signing off for bank purposes is different.

    But banks want houses built to regulations so how come they will accept arch tech to sign off. It states on the form that 'I cerify to building regulations etc '


  • #9
    Glebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,688 ✭✭✭Glebee


    Its probally an old form.


  • #10
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Glebee wrote: »
    Its probally an old form.

    It's not. The branch handed it out to me


  • #11
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Unless of course aib treat work to an unfinished house differently as it's not a new build and CIAT is acceptable for this

    Hard to believe they don't lump all applications with any building involved into 'self builds'


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  • #12
    Glebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,688 ✭✭✭Glebee


    mickman wrote: »
    It's not. The branch handed it out to me


    Any chance the branch still have the old form though..


  • #13
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Glebee wrote: »
    Any chance the branch still have the old form though..

    Well anything is possible but that would be very unprofessional


  • #14
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickman wrote: »
    Yeah but that's not written anywhere by aib. The self build form has 7 bodies they can be a part of and that's for a full house build

    Aib's requirements DO NOT trump the Building Control Amendment Regulations requirements. So if the development requires an AC for Building Control, then you will need an AC irrespective of what AIB's forms say.

    Ninja Edit : it looks like you are finishing a home rather than building a home. Do you have to lodge a commencement notice? That will decide on the requirements of Assigned Certifier or Joe Bloggs supervision.


  • #15
    Glebee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,688 ✭✭✭Glebee


    mickman wrote: »
    Well anything is possible but that would be very unprofessional


    My moneys on the old form being issued to yourself.


  • #16
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    kceire wrote: »
    Aib's requirements DO NOT trump the Building Control Amendment Regulations requirements. So if the development requires an AC for Building Control, then you will need an AC irrespective of what AIB's forms say.

    Ninja Edit : it looks like you are finishing a home rather than building a home. Do you have to lodge a commencement notice? That will decide on the requirements of Assigned Certifier or Joe Bloggs supervision.

    No commencement notice needed. Does that mean arch tech is ok ?

    Even with this BOI still demand an engineer / architect


  • #17
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickman wrote: »
    No commencement notice needed. Does that mean arch tech is ok ?

    Even with this BOI still demand an engineer / architect

    Ok that clears this up then.
    No commencement notice needed, so you don't need an assigned Certifier as per the new building control regulations per say. But the finishes still need to comply with current building regulations in as far as possible, that's what I would do.

    What AIB want is a professional overseeing the project and issues stage payment certificates, architect, engineer or surveyor is grand here, I hink they must have relevant PI insurances etc and basically be legit, but not necessarily chartered as per BCAR rules.


  • #18
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    kceire wrote: »
    Ok that clears this up then.
    No commencement notice needed, so you don't need an assigned Certifier as per the new building control regulations per say. But the finishes still need to comply with current building regulations in as far as possible, that's what I would do.

    What AIB want is a professional overseeing the project and issues stage payment certificates, architect, engineer or surveyor is grand here, I hink they must have relevant PI insurances etc and basically be legit, but not necessiarily chartered as per BCAR rules.

    Yes but an arch tech is not a surveyor are they ?

    The arch tech does have PI etc

    Bit odd of BOI to be so intent on demanding an assigned certifier, maybe aib are more informed and flexible when it comes to self build


  • #19
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickman wrote: »
    Yes but an arch tech is not a surveyor are they ?

    The arch tech does have PI etc

    Bit odd of BOI to be so intent on demanding an assigned certifier, maybe aib are more informed and flexible when it comes to self build

    Nothing to do with self build or not. If you were starting this project from scratch and lodging a commencement notice, you would have no choice but use an assigned certifier no matter what bank you are mortgaged with.

    This is common practice, had been going on since before the boom. Some banks were always more stricter that others for stage payment certificates, which is all your arch tech is doing really.


  • #20
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    kceire wrote: »
    Nothing to do with self build or not. If you were starting this project from scratch and lodging a commencement notice, you would have no choice but use an assigned certifier no matter what bank you are mortgaged with.

    This is common practice, had been going on since before the boom. Some banks were always more stricter that others for stage payment certificates, which is all your arch tech is doing really.

    Ok thanks for the info

    In a nutshell ,what are the big differences in the 2014 regulations ?


  • #21
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickman wrote: »
    Ok thanks for the info

    In a nutshell ,what are the big differences in the 2014 regulations ?

    Even the nutshell version won't fit in one post. Have a look at this sub forum. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1626


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  • #22
    Superdaddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    mickman wrote: »
    Ok thanks for the info

    In a nutshell ,what are the big differences in the 2014 regulations ?

    In a nutshell the new regs will cost you a lot more money.


  • #23
    dathi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭dathi


    mickman wrote: »
    Ok thanks for the info

    In a nutshell ,what are the big differences in the 2014 regulations ?

    it will be your nutshell in a vice when it comes to costs and the architect,s when it comes to mistakes


  • #24
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    So is building become very prohibitive? Is this the govts way of moving w ethics into estates to make it easier to provide services ?


  • #25
    Superdaddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    mickman wrote: »
    So is building become very prohibitive? Is this the govts way of moving w ethics into estates to make it easier to provide services ?

    There's a few ways of looking at it. It's mostly the government taking no responsibility for building regulation.
    I think what is emerging here for you is that you have found one of the last ways to do a self build under old regs. I am building on old regs at the moment, I have an arch tech and engineer, I am mortgaged with AIB. I wasn't aware that a arch tech could sign off but even if they could I'd still have my engineer.


  • #26
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Superdaddy wrote: »
    There's a few ways of looking at it. It's mostly the government taking no responsibility for building regulation.
    I think what is emerging here for you is that you have found one of the last ways to do a self build under old regs. I am building on old regs at the moment, I have an arch tech and engineer, I am mortgaged with AIB. I wasn't aware that a arch tech could sign off but even if they could I'd still have my engineer.

    Yeah but you are doing a full build ? If I was doing a build then I would have engineer / architect also . What I am doing is finishing a build that has been plastered / sealed and first fixed already so it's just finishing works I need

    I actually did speak to an architect and he said there was no work there for an assigned certifier , you just need someone to sign the interim Certs


  • #27
    Superdaddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 234 ✭✭Superdaddy


    mickman wrote: »
    Yeah but you are doing a full build ? If I was doing a build then I would have engineer / architect also . What I am doing is finishing a build that has been plastered / sealed and first fixed already so it's just finishing works I need

    I actually did speak to an architect and he said there was no work there for an assigned certifier , you just need someone to sign the interim Certs

    That's a different story alright.


  • #28
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    mickman wrote: »
    Yeah but you are doing a full build ? If I was doing a build then I would have engineer / architect also . What I am doing is finishing a build that has been plastered / sealed and first fixed already so it's just finishing works I need

    I actually did speak to an architect and he said there was no work there for an assigned certifier , you just need someone to sign the interim Certs

    And that's exactly what the bank are insisting, ensuring that their investment is ok to a certain extent. Best of luck with it. Will you be in for Christmas?


  • #29
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    kceire wrote: »
    And that's exactly what the bank are insisting, ensuring that their investment is ok to a certain extent. Best of luck with it. Will you be in for Christmas?

    Nope. Plenty pf legal issues to deal with . I reckon it's 50/50 to happen at all


  • #30
    mickman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,661 ✭✭✭mickman


    Got approved anyway, barring a few simple conditions. Nothing to do with arch tech.

    Thanks for any advice , thread may be closed


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