DART Driver Recruitment

haulier · 16-12-2014 4:02pm #1

I believe I.E. are in the course of recruiting more DART drivers. There are rumours of plans to introduce a 10 minute service.

Slippin Jimmy · 16-12-2014 8:45pm

haulier wrote: »

I believe I.E. are in the course of recruiting more DART drivers. There are rumours of plans to introduce a 10 minute service.

Do you have a source? Or is purely speculation.

corktina · 16-12-2014 9:26pm

It's true, a driver at Connolly told me

strandroad · 16-12-2014 9:32pm

haulier wrote: »

I believe I.E. are in the course of recruiting more DART drivers. There are rumours of plans to introduce a 10 minute service.

What's that, a dart every 10min to each end?

Hilly Bill · 16-12-2014 9:40pm

I just checked the date of this thread in case it was April

Grandeeod · 16-12-2014 9:46pm

corktina wrote: »

It's true, a driver at Connolly told me

Wrong. According to a certain Facebook page, it's Heuston drivers that usually spill the beans or not.:pac:

corktina · 16-12-2014 9:54pm

I said he was AT Connolly.....he had just worked through the tunnel from Heuston ;-)

Grandeeod · 16-12-2014 9:55pm

corktina wrote: »

I said he was AT Connolly.....he had just worked through the tunnel from Heuston ;-)

Don't believe you!:D

corktina · 16-12-2014 9:57pm

feck....forgot to add "fact" to my post

punisher5112 · 16-12-2014 9:57pm

This must be a dream op.

Sure I heard they are getting rid of darts.

Jamie2k9 · 17-12-2014 1:12am

IE already have enough drivers to provide such a service if they wanted to....

n97 mini · 17-12-2014 9:58am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

IE already have enough drivers to provide such a service if they wanted to....

Does that mean they've too much if they don't?

corktina · 17-12-2014 10:05am

seems that way....

whisky_galore · 17-12-2014 10:23am

corktina wrote: »

feck....forgot to add "fact" to my post

It's only a 'fact' if you use caps. FACT.

goingnowhere · 17-12-2014 10:29am

CEO is quoted as indicating a plan to increase DART frequency and that extra staff would be required.

Increasing to every 10 minutes off peak would require more drivers than current.

whisky_galore · 17-12-2014 10:34am

goingnowhere wrote: »

CEO is quoted as indicating a plan to increase DART frequency and that extra staff would be required.

Increasing to every 10 minutes off peak would require more drivers than current.

If that was so, recruitment would be internal as per usual.

rx8 · 17-12-2014 3:52pm

Trainee Dart Driver vacancies have been advertised in all CIE depots for the last month. Closing date was last weekend. Nothing mentioned about the numbers required, but probably only a few, who will undoubtedly be related to current drivers that will be taken on.

end of the road · 17-12-2014 6:55pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Does that mean they've too much if they don't?

no

Hilly Bill · 17-12-2014 7:57pm

rx8 wrote: »

Trainee Dart Driver vacancies have been advertised in all CIE depots for the last month. Closing date was last weekend. Nothing mentioned about the numbers required, but probably only a few, who will undoubtedly be related to current drivers that will be taken on.

I cant see why they advertised them when there are already fellas who got the jobs and still waiting to be released.

n97 mini · 17-12-2014 9:15pm

end of the road wrote: »

no

Only you could justify that.

end of the road · 17-12-2014 9:35pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Only you could justify that.

well better to have them then not. means no having to train up new drivers when business grows again after the hard times. and they will be there as standbys.

Jamie2k9 · 18-12-2014 1:23am

n97 mini wrote: »

Does that mean they've too much if they don't?

I would be very surprised if they need to take on any extra drivers to increase frequency. They hardly got rid of the ones surplus to requirements since DART freq was scaled back some years ago!

Anyway any increase in service will likely result in minimal capacity increase as you will likely see 2 car DART's every 10 minutes and then during peak 4 car DART's every 10 minutes!

However I would favor frequency over capacity so it would be a welcome development.

n97 mini · 18-12-2014 10:33am

end of the road wrote: »

well better to have them then not.

Better to be over staffed than properly staffed? You would be virtually unique in this view. They do cost money you know, and have a negative knock on effect on the company's finances.

n97 mini · 18-12-2014 11:14am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I would be very surprised if they need to take on any extra drivers to increase frequency. They hardly got rid of the ones surplus to requirements since DART freq was scaled back some years ago!

Anyway any increase in service will likely result in minimal capacity increase as you will likely see 2 car DART's every 10 minutes and then during peak 4 car DART's every 10 minutes!

However I would favor frequency over capacity so it would be a welcome development.

Ogle & ILDA went on strike over fast track training for DART drivers... did that training method make it into play? I presume it's also only DART and not Commuter stock?

Off peak on the Maynooth line is hourly and it really is annoying to see the DART getting 6 times the frequency without 6 times the patronage.

Decuc500 · 18-12-2014 12:14pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anyway any increase in service will likely result in minimal capacity increase as you will likely see 2 car DART's every 10 minutes and then during peak 4 car DART's every 10 minutes!

However I would favor frequency over capacity so it would be a welcome development.

Unfortunately for the Northside a Dart every 10 minutes would mean a Dart to Howth/Malahide every 20 minutes and 4 car Darts in rush hour to either destination every 20 minutes would mean very packed short Darts.

Then again most evening rush hour Northside darts are 4 carriages now so it probably won't make a difference.

LXFlyer · 18-12-2014 12:49pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

Unfortunately for the Northside a Dart every 10 minutes would mean a Dart to Howth/Malahide every 20 minutes and 4 car Darts in rush hour to either destination every 20 minutes would mean very packed short Darts.

Then again most evening rush hour Northside darts are 4 carriages now so it probably won't make a difference.

Not necessarily - the timetable is built in such a way that currently the combined commuter and DART service delivers a minimum 15 minute frequency from stations north of Howth Junction and a similar frequency from Howth between 07:45 and 08:45, and similarly in reverse from the city between 17:30 and 18:30.

Decuc500 · 18-12-2014 1:37pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Not necessarily - the timetable is built in such a way that currently the combined commuter and DART service delivers a minimum 15 minute frequency from stations north of Howth Junction and a similar frequency from Howth between 07:45 and 08:45, and similarly in reverse from the city between 17:30 and 18:30.

There’s a Dart from Pearse to Howth on week days at 17:41 and the next Dart to Howth is at 18:04.
That’s a 23 minute gap.
The last time I got the 18:04 Dart (a few weeks ago) it was 4 carriages and people couldn’t board at Tara Street.

end of the road · 18-12-2014 3:23pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Better to be over staffed than properly staffed?

would you like potential service cancelations because of not enough drivers if they were only "properly staffed" which is something you haven't told us what it should be, or would you like a few extra which can be eventually used to re-grow services without having to spend money training them up from scratch? i know which one i'd rather.

n97 mini wrote: »

You would be virtually unique in this view.

i suspect i wouldn't. better to have a few extra that can be used to grow services again when things get back on track, then having not enough and having to train up new drivers from scratch when the time comes.

n97 mini wrote: »

They do cost money you know

and it will cost and take time to train up new ones. better to have a few of the old gard around who can step in once times get good.

n97 mini wrote: »

have a negative knock on effect on the company's finances.

so be it. its a cost worth baring for the benefits it will bring eventually.

n97 mini · 18-12-2014 3:29pm

Is that you David?

patrickbrophy18 · 27-12-2014 5:38pm

A few times over the past few weeks, I've looked into this "so-called" introduction of a 10 minutely DART service on the official website and other sites and I haven't seen any mention of it.

ClovenHoof · 27-12-2014 6:12pm

Frequency always wins over capacity - which is why The Lynch Mob had massive platforms extended which require millions in land purchases (at the height of the boom) and bought lots of new DARTs now rotting in yards.

end of the road · 27-12-2014 6:35pm

which lots of new darts rotting in yards. only the 8200s are stored. i'd imagine the rest are rotated. frankly for the dart both high frequency and high capacity are a must to encourage more usage.

Captain Chaos · 28-12-2014 5:30am

end of the road wrote: »

which lots of new darts rotting in yards. only the 8200s are stored. i'd imagine the rest are rotated. frankly for the dart both high frequency and high capacity are a must to encourage more usage.

The 8200s are effectively scrapped all but in name.

The DART service really does need it's capacity back, it's seen passenger growth over the past 2 years yet they have cut some services down to 4 cars that should be 8 and I was mashed into a 2car set at 7pm on a Thurday night 2 weeks ago leaving the city centre. There were 4 bikes on the coach I was on alone at crush load level. That's not right.

Irish Rail don't seem to realise that peak times are from 3-8pm for all trains leaving the city centre area in the evening and all DART should be a minimum of 6 cars at those times. 4 car sets are not cutting it with up to 20min gaps with Maynooth and Dundalk and Drogheda trains in between at times.

devnull · 28-12-2014 11:28am

4 Cars are fine for some off peak, and at weekends where they can easily cope with the demand on some services for a lot of the day.

However we need to end the nonsense of four car sets running during peak Monday to Friday evening services between 5pm to 7pm which is leading to chronic overcrowding on some trains.

However as they're now fitting the 8100 class with grab handles, it seems that instead of using the spare carriages, they will instead just promote further crowding instead.

end of the road · 28-12-2014 4:30pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 8200s are effectively scrapped all but in name.

The DART service really does need it's capacity back, it's seen passenger growth over the past 2 years yet they have cut some services down to 4 cars that should be 8 and I was mashed into a 2car set at 7pm on a Thurday night 2 weeks ago leaving the city centre. There were 4 bikes on the coach I was on alone at crush load level. That's not right.

Irish Rail don't seem to realise that peak times are from 3-8pm for all trains leaving the city centre area in the evening and all DART should be a minimum of 6 cars at those times. 4 car sets are not cutting it with up to 20min gaps with Maynooth and Dundalk and Drogheda trains in between at times.

i'm agreeing with you, hence i said frequency and capacity, one or the other isn't good enough, they both need to happen

Sam Russell · 29-12-2014 5:39pm

Why do they not split/join Dart trains during service?

Why do they only run services that are 'All stations to ...' instead of fast trains that only stop at selected stations. For example, run a non-stop Bray - Dun Laoghaire, then all stations to Malahide, followed immediately by a Bay- all staions to Howth. The first train would be at Dun Laoghaire 5 or so minutes ahead of the Howth train. This would also split the passengers between the trains. They could do the same in the evening at Pearse by having the first train Pearse, Dun Laoghaire, then all stations to Bray, followed by Pearse - all stations to Bray.

Why run empty 8 coach 2900s to/from Bray in the morning? They return 'As Serbhis' empty.

LEIN · 29-12-2014 7:14pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Why do they not split/join Dart trains during service?

Why do they only run services that are 'All stations to ...' instead of fast trains that only stop at selected stations. For example, run a non-stop Bray - Dun Laoghaire, then all stations to Malahide, followed immediately by a Bay- all staions to Howth. The first train would be at Dun Laoghaire 5 or so minutes ahead of the Howth train. This would also split the passengers between the trains. They could do the same in the evening at Pearse by having the first train Pearse, Dun Laoghaire, then all stations to Bray, followed by Pearse - all stations to Bray.

Why run empty 8 coach 2900s to/from Bray in the morning? They return 'As Serbhis' empty.

The 09:30 from Greystones is split in Bray, while in service.

Decuc500 · 30-12-2014 1:40pm

devnull wrote: »

However as they're now fitting the 8100 class with grab handles, it seems that instead of using the spare carriages, they will instead just promote further crowding instead.

The funny thing about these grab handles is that they run down the length of the carriage where the seats are and it's always easy to hold onto a seat handle no matter how busy it is in the aisle.

I could be wrong in this but from what I recall I don't think there are grab handles in the standing areas. Particularly in the one corner of the standing area where there isn't even a pole to hang onto!

They just seem pointless and a little ominous that crowding is the way forward for Irish Rail.

dublindiehard · 30-12-2014 2:05pm

Who is fitting those handles anyway?

The manufactuyer? You'd hope they've tested that the body of the trains can withstand all that pressure?

end of the road · 30-12-2014 3:44pm

Decuc500 wrote: »

The funny thing about these grab handles is that they run down the length of the carriage where the seats are and it's always easy to hold onto a seat handle no matter how busy it is in the aisle.

I could be wrong in this but from what I recall I don't think there are grab handles in the standing areas. Particularly in the one corner of the standing area where there isn't even a pole to hang onto!

They just seem pointless and a little ominous that crowding is the way forward for Irish Rail.

i wouldn't call it crowding, i'd call it ridiculous. other places which have overcrowding have infrastructure at its limits meaning train lengths are at the maximum, meaning upgrading has to take place to sort it out where possible. IE on the other hand have enough carriges to deal with crowding on the dart for the moment

Captain Chaos · 30-12-2014 6:00pm

end of the road wrote: »

i wouldn't call it crowding, i'd call it ridiculous. other places which have overcrowding have infrastructure at its limits meaning train lengths are at the maximum, meaning upgrading has to take place to sort it out where possible. IE on the other hand have enough carriges to deal with crowding on the dart for the moment

Exactly, as it is IE are engineering in overcrowding that can be fixed tomorrow if they wanted to. Fuel prices are at a 10 year low point right now, wages have dropped and fares are higher than ever. No excuses anymore. It's the fat cats at the top being paid too much and not knowing what they are actually doing that's cause this lack of money to run longer trains.

About 40% of the DART fleet is sitting around every day doing nothing when it could be out improving the standard of service and encouraging more people to use public transport. As it is people are going back to cars due to cheaper fuel, high fares and the increased overcrowding cause by running shorter trains than 10 years ago.

dublinman1990 · 12-05-2015 8:32pm

I was talking to a family friend of mine who is my uncle's classmate in school today who said to me that he was currently doing a 14 week training course to become a DART driver with IE.

Here are a few points of what he told me about both the training and the job itself

Training

He has undertaken 10 weeks in his training so far.
There are seven other guys in his class doing the exact same course. The cost from IE alone to provide the training to him costs €70,000.
He has to undergo a full medical after he finishes his training in four weeks time.
He has a lot of tasks in his training course like learning off rules and regulations of the railway, De-isolation of the train, How to stop a train in the course of a delay etc....

Driving job

He said to me that the job is for on the 10 minute interval DART service. He said it was for between Bray and Howth Junction only. He said that this was to stave off complaints from DART passengers about complaining about lack of trains.
He said the job is for a full-time basis.
He said the pay is good so he can cover looking after both his wife and little son. I didn't ask him about his rate of pay per hour or anything like that.
He also worked in another job in IE manning a level crossing in Cabra and he was employed internally in IE to train for the DART job.
He also said the job is not guaranteed one for him to stay on. I am hoping he does well in it because he said there isn't much full-time work available.

All in all it was a very good conversation I had with him. I hope it goes well for him in the future.

LXFlyer · 12-05-2015 8:58pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

He said to me that the job is for on the 10 minute interval DART service. He said it was for between Bray and Howth Junction only.

Clearly the 10 minute frequency is only between Bray and Howth Junction, as some DARTs will go to Malahide and some to Howth.

Atlantic Dawn · 12-05-2015 10:00pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There are seven other guys in his class doing the exact same course. The cost from IE alone to provide the training to him costs €70,000.
He has to undergo a full medical after he finishes his training in four weeks time.

Very informative post and thanks for it but from Irish Rails point of view would it not be better to get the medical done first instead of wasting €70k on someone if they are found to have health issues that are found in the medical that make them unsuitable for the job?

dublindiehard · 13-05-2015 9:37am

Nice spin form Irish Rail saying there are not enough trains and people are complaining, when the actual problem is lack of capacity.

I can't see how running extra trains is going to make things more efficent, surely it would be cheaper just to lengthen the existing ones?

Also when there is going to be disruption, with a 50% increase in darts, there will be even more of a backlog and knock on effect.

As for Irish rail being efficent, are you kidding me?

LXFlyer · 13-05-2015 10:42am

dublindiehard wrote: »

Nice spin form Irish Rail saying there are not enough trains and people are complaining, when the actual problem is lack of capacity.

I can't see how running extra trains is going to make things more efficent, surely it would be cheaper just to lengthen the existing ones?

Also when there is going to be disruption, with a 50% increase in darts, there will be even more of a backlog and knock on effect.

As for Irish rail being efficent, are you kidding me?

When did IE say there are not enough trains?

What they said was they could not afford to run all of the trains - there's a huge difference.

They have enough trains to operate the 10 minute service using a mix of 6 and 8 car sets.

The increased service levels will only happen after the city centre resignalling is completed early next year, which will boost the capacity of the rail line.

A 10 minute frequency versus a 15 minute is a large psychological difference in peoples' minds - it changes the service very much into a "turn up and go" operation.

strandroad · 13-05-2015 11:08am

lxflyer wrote: »

A 10 minute frequency versus a 15 minute is a large psychological difference in peoples' minds - it changes the service very much into a "turn up and go" operation.

Absolutely, I live on the Dart line and it will be a great improvement for me. Darts don't disappear/refuse passengers/have driver changeovers like buses do, they are far more reliable and now will be far more frequent.

Losty Dublin · 13-05-2015 10:55pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Very informative post and thanks for it but from Irish Rails point of view would it not be better to get the medical done first instead of wasting €70k on someone if they are found to have health issues that are found in the medical that make them unsuitable for the job?

Do it beforehand and they need to test all potential candidates pre-training. Do it afterwards and you need only test the successful drivers.

It's worth noting as well that Irish Rail staff who work in safety critical roles undergo medicals on a regular basis. Some are unable to apply to become drivers on these medicals alone.

end of the road · 14-05-2015 12:21am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Do it beforehand and they need to test all potential candidates pre-training. Do it afterwards and you need only test the successful drivers.

It's worth noting as well that Irish Rail staff who work in safety critical roles undergo medicals on a regular basis. Some are unable to apply to become drivers on these medicals alone.

i get what you mean but surely a medical for all would work out cheeper then the training of all? they just need to train those who pass the medical instead

Losty Dublin · 14-05-2015 1:03am

end of the road wrote: »

i get what you mean but surely a medical for all would work out cheeper then the training of all? they just need to train those who pass the medical instead

The training staff are there regardless so there isn't any significants costs be it one or ten people who make it that far. The medical staff need only see those who they need to, namely those who pass the drivers course.

dublindiehard · 14-05-2015 11:11am

mhge wrote: »

Absolutely, I live on the Dart line and it will be a great improvement for me. Darts don't disappear/refuse passengers/have driver changeovers like buses do, they are far more reliable and now will be far more frequent.

From those comments, it's fairly obvious that you are someone who lives or commutes via the centre to the Southside and do not get the DART on the Northside.

Reliability on the Northbound sevice in evening peak has been nothing special recently and capacity leaves a lot to be desired and driver changeovers happen there on a regular basis.

Most people I know who get the train northbound in the evening just would be happy with providing adequate capacity on the train they travel on.

DART Driver Recruitment

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