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Knight of Cups - New Terrence Malick

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    I saw it in the cinema and found it to be bloody awful, but as a fan of Malick's work I will probably give it another shot anyway.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,156 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Is this out legally to watch anywhere, all the reviews and here as well not positive.:(


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Is this out legally to watch anywhere, all the reviews and here as well not positive.:(

    The German Blu-ray is out but it's region locked. It's unlikely to get a theatrical release.

    http://www.amazon.de/Knight-Cups-Blu-ray-Christian-Bale/dp/B01423S9US


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    The German Blu-ray is out but it's region locked. It's unlikely to get a theatrical release.

    http://www.amazon.de/Knight-Cups-Blu-ray-Christian-Bale/dp/B01423S9US

    Really? You think that's because of the poor reviews?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Really? You think that's because of the poor reviews?

    No, just too arthouse and probably not worth the expense.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    I'll refuse to watch this movie as i think Malick's movies are rubbish pretentious tripe. Probably an unpopular opinion here.
    Nope, calling Malick pretentious on here is like shooting fish in a barrel.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Don't really see anything "pretentious" about films like Days of Heaven or Tree of Life. Ambitious, unyielding, uncompromising and complex would be more apt. But there's no doubt that there's substance and genuine intention behind his work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,487 ✭✭✭Right Turn Clyde


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Don't really see anything "pretentious" about films like Days of Heaven or Tree of Life. Ambitious, unyielding, uncompromising and complex would be more apt. But there's no doubt that there's substance and genuine intention behind his work.

    I agree. Google defines pretentious as "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed."

    In that respect I don't think any of Malick's films are pretentious, even To the Wonder, which I felt like walking out of. His films and the subjects he chooses are of importance and I think they can carry his preferred style.

    I think self-indulgent is a more apposite way of describing Malick in negative terms. To the Wonder showed him indulging himself to the point where the film suffered. It was almost as if he was trying to out-Malick himself. I've heard some critics describe Knight of Cups as Malick parodying himself. Well that began with To the Wonder. I feel that he's totally won over by the idea of 'the Malickian'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Decuc500


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Is this out legally to watch anywhere, all the reviews and here as well not positive.:(

    I think it's out in cinemas here in March. Why worry about reviews?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    I agree. Google defines pretentious as "attempting to impress by affecting greater importance or merit than is actually possessed."

    In that respect I don't think any of Malick's films are pretentious, even To the Wonder, which I felt like walking out of. His films and the subjects he chooses are of importance and I think they can carry his preferred style.
    Yeah Malick is way too sincere and open-hearted to be called pretentious imo. Moreover the films don't really impose any sense of importance on the audience, they're purposefully abstract enough to give back whatever the individual viewer brings to it. If Malick wanted to appear important I'd say he'd be way more visible in the public eye and especially preach to everyone what the films are supposed to be.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Don't really see anything "pretentious" about films like Days of Heaven or Tree of Life. Ambitious, unyielding, uncompromising and complex would be more apt. But there's no doubt that there's substance and genuine intention behind his work.

    It's an easy label to throw at Malick, for those that want to dismiss him without too much insight into why they wish to in the first place. But that goes for numerous directors.

    However, parts of 'The Thin Red Line' can definitely be labeled as such and it's infuriatingly so at times. Having Southern hick grunt 20 year olds, with barely the education to string a coherrent sentence together wax lyrical about the nature of man, nature and cruelty fits the bill. Frankly, I feel the film would have been a far, far superior picture if the voice overs were deleted completely as their content is eye rolling. The film's visuals tell the story perfectly well.

    That said, 'The Thin Red Line' is probably the film of his that I've watched the most.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,399 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Tony EH wrote: »
    It's an easy label to throw at Malick, for those that want to dismiss him without too much insight into why they wish to in the first place. But that goes for numerous directors.

    However, parts of 'The Thin Red Line' can definitely be labeled as such and it's infuriatingly so at times. Having Southern hick grunt 20 year olds, with barely the education to string a coherrent sentence together wax lyrical about the nature of man, nature and cruelty fits the bill. Frankly, I feel the film would have been a far, far superior picture if the voice overs were deleted completely as their content is eye rolling. The film's visuals tell the story perfectly well.

    That said, 'The Thin Red Line' is probably the film of his that I've watched the most.

    Do you think lower educated working class people were unable to coherently articulate their experience in the wars of the 20th century? I would consider that a somewhat elitist point of view.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Do you think lower educated working class people were unable to coherently articulate their experience in the wars of the 20th century? I would consider that a somewhat elitist point of view.

    They simply wouldn't have spoken in such a way as presented in 'The Thin Red Line'. By and large, in any case.

    That's script speak. It's not what some kid born in the 20's would have spoken like. The words uttered in the voice overs are at complete odds to the average marine of the time. They weren't philosophers. They were kids from largely rural backgrounds who joined up or were drafted into a war they barely understood. They weren't Cant or Sartre. They were John Joe and Billy Bob who would have had a primary education at best, assuming their families managed to get through the depression of the 30's without pulling them out of school.

    Frankly, the voice overs are terrible and completely unrepresentative of the average GI in 1943.


  • Registered Users Posts: 677 ✭✭✭vidor


    Decuc500 wrote: »
    I think it's out in cinemas here in March.

    Link? I was under the impression that it wasn't getting a release here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭Decuc500


    vidor wrote: »
    Link? I was under the impression that it wasn't getting a release here.

    Apologies, you could be right. It was the US release date in March I saw.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    Decuc500 wrote:
    Apologies, you could be right. It was the US release date in March I saw.


    Odd that IFI wouldn't show it?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,680 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    Odd that IFI wouldn't show it?

    It's not just us, it's the UK as well. Distributors sometimes decide it's not worth the cost of releasing a film, even on Blu-ray.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    It's not just us, it's the UK as well. Distributors sometimes decide it's not worth the cost of releasing a film, even on Blu-ray.

    Its not like they have to go to the expense of striking a 35mm print anymore, just make a digital file, they show some totally obscure stuff in the IFI by non name directors, crazy that a well established one can't get a screening in Ireland or more so Britain. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Belial


    Tony EH wrote: »
    They simply wouldn't have spoken in such a way as presented in 'The Thin Red Line'. By and large, in any case.

    That's script speak. It's not what some kid born in the 20's would have spoken like. The words uttered in the voice overs are at complete odds to the average marine of the time. They weren't philosophers. They were kids from largely rural backgrounds who joined up or were drafted into a war they barely understood. They weren't Cant or Sartre. They were John Joe and Billy Bob who would have had a primary education at best, assuming their families managed to get through the depression of the 30's without pulling them out of school.

    Frankly, the voice overs are terrible and completely unrepresentative of the average GI in 1943.

    Terrence Malick in Not-A-Realist-And-Has-Never-Been Shocker! :pac:
    It's not just us, it's the UK as well. Distributors sometimes decide it's not worth the cost of releasing a film, even on Blu-ray.

    It's getting a UK/Ireland release on May 6th.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Chain Smoker


    Its not like they have to go to the expense of striking a 35mm print anymore, just make a digital file, they show some totally obscure stuff in the IFI by non name directors, crazy that a well established one can't get a screening in Ireland or more so Britain. :mad:
    Isn't the reason that some bigger name filmmakers occasionally slip between the cracks more down to whoever owning the rights being unwilling to negotiate with distributors at the level demand allows? Whereas more obscure non-English language films often have EU subsidies and **** like that to back them up?

    iirc two of my favourite films from recent years, The Immigrant and the Spectacular Now, both got no release in the UK and Ireland at all.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    Belial wrote: »
    Terrence Malick in Not-A-Realist-And-Has-Never-Been Shocker! :pac:

    This is quite the silly sentence, if you realise the extreme lengths that Malick went to to get small realistic details correct for the film.

    :/


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Belial


    Are you suggesting that Terrence Malick is a realist or are you trying to equivocate between two meanings of 'realistic'?

    Fixating on authentic period details in a historical story has nothing to do with dramatic realism.

    One doesn't imply or necessitate the other.

    Malick's approach to character has always been expressive and stylised.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,538 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I don't know any director who could claim to be a "realist".


  • Registered Users Posts: 21 Belial


    Ok, well there are many different realist movements and periods throughout film history and plenty of directors who either thought of themselves as realists or whose work was catagorised as such by film critics or historians, but Malick doesn't fall into either category and never has.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,708 CMod ✭✭✭✭johnny_ultimate


    Having been fascinated with the critical divide around this film, I was very eager to see just how good/bad it was. And I'm going to side with the 'pro' camp on this one - thought Knight of Cups was excellent.

    I found To The Wonder incredibly tedious, and in a way this is a similar proposition. But I admired how in some ways this is the purest Terence Malick film yet - almost completely disregarding conventional narrative structure, distilling everything down into... I don't know even know how best to describe it. The fragmented images are just a stream-of-consciousness flow of ideas, emotions, themes, memories. There's a basic episodic structure in place, but really the audience is left to pick at what's presented and interpret them. I can easily see how that would come across as wishy-washy for most, but there's something about it that drew me in totally - took me a while, but certainly by the second half of the film I was engrossed (if occasionally distracted when someone like Kevin Corrigan popped up for like a single shot - Malick's brutal editing process continues unabated).

    It's a small film, and yes let's be honest it's about an incredibly wealthy man and his almost envious existential crisis following affairs with a stream of beautiful women. 'Sympathy' is not exactly the inherent response one has to the situations he faces. Yet I think Malick's images engage with the subject matter in quite fascinating ways. Like the frequent, sometimes extended shots of the homeless individuals of LA to put Rick's 'predicament' into context. And the way it probes the inherent yet grandiose emptiness of the lifestyle Rick and many of his associates live, and their quests for some sort of meaning in the process (one shot of a solitary shrine sitting in the middle of a sickeningly opulent Las Vegas resort stood out as a particularly provocative one). Also loved the recurrent image of Rick and his latest lover on beaches - trying to constantly recapture, with diminishing returns, that same old romantic rush, all the while doomed to ultimately fail to engage with the women as the unique individuals they are.

    It is, naturally, gorgeous, in much the same way Emmanuel Lubezki and Malick's collaborations always are. The fact that Bale barely says two sentences in the film creates a wonderfully tricky relationship between the camera and Rick's world, almost as if he too is a mere observer looking back at his past. But there's a few new tricks too, most notably the fascinating use of digital cameras. Smaller cameras are used to achieve a new intimacy and rawness, feeling even freer and more dynamic than the by now characteristically floaty, woozy Malickian aesthetic. It's also used on a few occasions to add an uncertainty to what's happening - the significance of one early scene of children playing remains vague, and the choice to shoot it on a GoPro or similar adds to that sense of mystery and almost fuzziness.

    If it caught me on a different day, I might have responded differently, and there's no question its ambiguity and general floatiness could be easily interpreted as being irritatingly vague and empty. And it's ultimately a pretty small film, dealing with a wealthy person's personal crisis in grand, self-serious ways. But as a piece of cinema it's rich and deeper than its undeniably shallow protagonist, and indeed the manner in which it probes and deconstructs that shallowness is fascinating. This is Malick pushing his style to further extremes - and it will annoy as many as it bewitches.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Tony EH wrote: »
    They simply wouldn't have spoken in such a way as presented in 'The Thin Red Line'. By and large, in any case.

    That's script speak. It's not what some kid born in the 20's would have spoken like. The words uttered in the voice overs are at complete odds to the average marine of the time. They weren't philosophers. They were kids from largely rural backgrounds who joined up or were drafted into a war they barely understood. They weren't Cant or Sartre. They were John Joe and Billy Bob who would have had a primary education at best, assuming their families managed to get through the depression of the 30's without pulling them out of school.

    Frankly, the voice overs are terrible and completely unrepresentative of the average GI in 1943.

    This is not true.

    After Pearl Harbour was attacked a huge number of Americans from all social classes volunteered to join the US military. The majority of middle class recruits fought as enlisted men. One can simply look to the number of great writers who were enlisted men as an indication of this - Kurt Vonnengut, Robert Leckie, Eugene Sledge, etc. Even when he was rejected as medically unfit for service by the army JFK had his family pull strings to allow him to join the navy.

    By 1920 more than half of the population of the US was classed as living in urban areas, from memory this figure was nearly 60% in 1942.

    The idea that they would not have understood why they were fighting is also very dismissive. The Marines fought primarily in the pacific against the Japanese, even the thickest of yokels could grasp that the Japanese started hostilities by attacking Pearl Harbour, invading the US administered Philippines and occupying the Aleutian Islands which were sovereign US territory. The reasons for the war were pretty straightforward.

    I agree that the dialogue in The Thin Red Line is a bit contrived. I just think it's unfair to dismiss the people who had to do the fighting as uneducated, unthinking cannon fodder.

    I'm not a massive fan of Malick, I think his films look amazing but are more often than not style over substance, but they are still be fascinating to watch (provided I'm in the right mood). I thought his style worked perfectly for the The Thin Red Line. It's very hard to make a war film seem original.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    I don't think Malick has made a bad movie to date, The Tree of Life is my favorite film of the decade (and also for me the finest American film made so far this century) and found To the Wonder to be patchy but full of individual treasures and at points very moving.

    However I saw Knight of Cups today and found it to be a major disappointment from a director I really didn't think could put a foot wrong. I never thought I'd draw a comparison between a Malick movie and The Wolf of Wall Street but like that film this is a vapid portrayal of a vapid lifestyle directed by an American master that just comes across as formally stale, unengaging, empty, tedious and one-note. This is the work of an artist painting himself into a corner and it actually made me empathize with the people who were driven to walk out of The Tree of Life.

    The Tree of Life 10/10
    The Thin Red Line 10/10
    The New World 9/10
    Badlands 9/10
    To the Wonder 7/10
    Days of Heaven 7/10 (Although I do need to see this one again)
    Knight of Cups 5/10


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Chain Smoker


    e_e wrote: »
    Days of Heaven 7/10 (Although I do need to see this one again)
    Yes, you do!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,156 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    e_e wrote: »


    Badlands 9/10

    Harsh. :mad:;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭e_e


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Harsh. :mad:;)
    Too much plot!!! :P


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