Disappearing bus

Qualitymark wrote: »

All the time.

A tad of an exaggeration.

However, in reply to the OP, there are particular circumstances where buses will disappear from the system:

* If a driver is not signed into his ticket machine the bus will drop off the system 2-3 minutes prior to departure - it needs the ticket machine to be live to function
* Where a change of drivers takes place midway along the route the bus will disappear while one driver signs off and the new driver signs on
* If the bus has defective GPS equipment it will not show up on the system once the system switches to "live" mode.
* Similarly if for whatever reason (e.g. breakdown, no driver available) that the bus does not operate, unless the controller manually intervenes and marks it as cancelled the bus will appear on the system until it switches to "live" mode.

There has from time to time been an issue on certain routes with a departure going missing from the system from about 15 minutes to 5 minutes before departure from the terminus - this appears to have been some form of system glitch.

lxflyer wrote: »

... in reply to the OP, there are particular circumstances where buses will disappear from the system:

* If a driver is not signed into his ticket machine the bus will drop off the system 2-3 minutes prior to departure - it needs the ticket machine to be live to function
* Where a change of drivers takes place midway along the route the bus will disappear while one driver signs off and the new driver signs on
* If the bus has defective GPS equipment it will not show up on the system once the system switches to "live" mode.
* Similarly if for whatever reason (e.g. breakdown, no driver available) that the bus does not operate, unless the controller manually intervenes and marks it as cancelled the bus will appear on the system until it switches to "live" mode.

I don't agree with the poster who claims it happens 'all the time' but on more than one occasion I have seen a phantom bus displayed on RTPI after it was supposed to have left the terminus and the RTPI display showed the bus as approaching my stop i.e. the number of minutes remaining steadily counted down until at about 3 minutes to go it suddenly disappeared and never showed up.

So there is a fault somewhere in the system whereby the people in the control centre know that a particular service is cancelled 'will not operate' yet they don't remove it from RTPI meaning that would-be passengers will see it on RTPI unaware that it's never going to arrive.

Not a big deal for a frequent service like the 46A but it is if it's a service like the 47 which after 18:30 only runs once an hour.

Qualitymark wrote: »

Clarification: when I said "All the time", I didn't mean *all* the time, I meant like "Do you eat chocolate?" "Yeah, all the time, why?"

If that's a 'clarification', my name is Bertie Ahern.

You then said it happens 'awfully often', presumably we needn't believe that either?

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Frequently.

There are some routes in Galway where the RTPI is clearly working, and some routes where it is not.
Eg 403 Yes, 409 no. 405 - sometimes. (I don't catch the others often enough to know about them).

I catch 409 a bit, and often have the experience described here. And it happens on the 405 (which I catch a lot) often enough. IMHO the displays are showing the time-tabled times when RTPI data isn't available, even though they are saying that the times are real-time.

For clarity - your comments are about Bus Eireann - my comments were based on Dublin Bus. They are different control systems.

My sister takes the 11 to work every morning. She says it happens very often. (Afraid to say "all the time" for fear of semantic nazis)

I have also seen situations where a scheduled bus is missing from RTPI but it actually shows up. This gives rise to a double jeopardy whereby a bus that's showing on RTPI may not show up and and v.v. Doesn't happen 'all the time' but does happen.

You all seem to very lucky to have buses at all! Bus Eirann ceased coming into our village " to save money" - it goes down the new bypass instead.
I've yet to meet someone who can explain how not picking up passengers in a bus can save money!

stevemul wrote: »

You all seem to very lucky to have buses at all! Bus Eirann ceased coming into our village " to save money" - it goes down the new bypass instead.
I've yet to meet someone who can explain how not picking up passengers in a bus can save money!

I feel similar to that, in the way that the Belfast Dublin Bus Éireann-Translink Ulster Bus service, since May 2011, hasn't served Drogheda or Dundalk.

It's a very busy service during the day, but I have taken it at night from Belfast, at 11pm, 1am and at 3am and on each occasion, even though it also picked up in Sprucefield, Banbridge and Newry, it didn't fill to capacity in the way it often does in the early evenings at the airport heading to Belfast.

Most people on it at those night times at 11pm, 1am and 3am, were going to Dublin airport.

I just thought, considering the trains don't operate during the night, even if they made Dundalk and Drogheda drop off points on those services from Belfast at night, it might encourage more people, coming from Belfast towards Dublin, to use the service - for reasons other than going to the airport - for example after attending gigs or theatre etc.

It used to only take 1 hour and 10 minutes to get from Belfast to Dundalk at night.

I think they reason that by avoiding the two towns they save fuel and time getting to Dublin Airport, but I just thought, considering how quicker the service is at night compared to during the day, if they served Dundalk or Drogheda, they might get more people using it.

Now, with the timetable changes in recent years - since the Dublin Drogheda Dundalk 100X no longer serves Newry - from Dundalk, if you opt to get the bus to Belfast, rather than the train, you have to take the service from Dundalk to Newry first.

Going to Belfast by bus from Drogheda, you've to get a bus to Dundalk, to get a bus from Dundalk to Newry, to get the bus from Newry to Belfast.

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1416503318-160.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1416503317-161.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1403523372-001X.pdf

http://buseireann.ie/pdf/1416503319-100.pdf

Having to make multiple connections turns people off a service but making those connections during the day wouldn't be as bad, if you knew that at night, that the service from Belfast would drop you off in Dundalk or Drogheda!:)

84 is another bad culprit for this one. I know some people at my bus stop call it the "miracle bus".

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

84 is another bad culprit for this one. I know some people at my bus stop call it the "miracle bus".

I hate that bus, once they redirected it so that it didn't go on the main dual carriageway towards UCD I had nothing but disdain and broiling hatred for it.

SparkySpitfire wrote: »

84 is another bad culprit for this one. I know some people at my bus stop call it the "miracle bus".

I take the 84 or 84a at least twice a day most days, and have found it to generally be reliable when it comes to sticking to the timetable (and I get it mid-route). However, the RTPI estimated time tends to wander around in a way that doesn't correlate to the actual estimated time (If the bus is due at 6:15, it'll continually say it's due in 20 minutes until about 6:10, then suddenly it jumps from 20 minutes down to 5 minutes.) However, the bus nearly always shows up within a few minutes of 6:15.

In the past, 84 buses never showed up at all on the RTPI for a specific stop. I wrote in to Dublin Bus, and a few weeks later they added the missing buses to RTPI (although they still had the problem with estimated time). So I know Dublin Bus is willing to fix these types of issues.

This last weekend I wrote into Dublin Bus to ask them to fix the current issue with the estimated times. Maybe if you (and some of your coworkers) wrote to Dublin Bus as well and explained the problem in detail, we can get a reliable RTPI for the 84.

Bus Eireann are on a hiding to nothing there. Taking one of their private sector competitors as an example, GoBus have four pickup points: Galway city, Dublin city, Cork city and Dublin airport. Stopping at every small town costs more in fuel and you lose the long-distance travellers (who are paying the highest fares) to the private sector.

coylemj wrote: »

Bus Eireann are on a hiding to nothing there. Taking one of their private sector competitors as an example, GoBus have four pickup points: Galway city, Dublin city, Cork city and Dublin airport. Stopping at every small town costs more in fuel and you lose the long-distance travellers (who are paying the highest fares) to the private sector.

I was using as an example, the services at night that I got from Belfast that even though it has a number of stops, didn't fill to capacity with people going to the airport.

I just thought that by making some other towns, that the Dublin Belfast bus used to serve, drop off points, it might encourage more people to use the service at night.

stevemul wrote: »

Yes, this is indeed the "Service" to which I refer! Bus Eireann were very "economical with the truth" in the above statement, giving the impression that they were INTRODUCING a service to Roosky and Dromod. In reality, they were cancelling the daily bus service through the villages except for the morning and evening service in each direction. When I wrote to complain, their reply was that it saved both money AND 5 minutes on the 4 hour journey from Sligo to Dublin Airport so that they could compete with the train journey!
In reality:
1. They cannot possibly save money if they pick up less passengers
2. Very few passengers make the full journey from Sligo to Dublin Airport by bus, and those that do would only do so to save a few cents on the fare rather than to save time.
Our local TD, Ming Flanagan asked questions in the Dail but got nowhere!

Incidentally, if you ask villagers how to spell Roosky, half will say with an "e" and the other third will say without!!

I've noticed that with their press releases. When the Cork Dublin Bus Éireann Go Bus service was altered last year, their statement mentioned that they were increasing services during the day but made no mention that their services that they ran every two hours throughout the night were being cancelled.

here it is

http://www.buseireann.ie/news.php?id=1352&month=Aug

"Bus Éireann Revises Cork-Dublin X8 Expressway Service

• 3hrs 45 mins from city to city
• 4hrs 10 mins from Cork to Dublin Airport
• Non-stop from Cashel to Newlands Cross

Following customer feedback, Bus Éireann has revised its Cork city-Dublin city-Dublin Airport X8 Expressway service to provide a city to city journey time of 3 hours 45 minutes.
The revised X8, which comes into effect from 15 September 2013, will have a journey time of 4 hours 10 minutes from Cork to Dublin Airport, and 3 hours 45 minutes from Cork city to Dublin city. All services will operate to and from Cork via the M8 and there will be no stops between Cashel and Newlands Cross.
The revised X8 will operate six times a day in each direction. It will serve Cork (Parnell Bus Station), Fermoy, Mitchelstown, Cahir, Cashel, Newlands Cross, Heuston Station, Eden Quay, Busaras and Dublin Airport.

From 15 September 2013, the X8 will operate from Cork at 0800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600 and 1800.

From 15 September 2013, the X8 will operate from Dublin Airport at 0730, 0930, 1130, 1330, 1530 and 1730. Services will operate from Busaras at 0800, 1000, 1200, 1400, 1600 and 1800.

From 15 September 2013, the X8 will no longer serve Portlaoise or Urlingford. Bus Éireann continues to provide 12 services a day in each direction from Portlaoise to Dublin city on its Expressway Route 12 and 12X services with 10 of these services in each direction also operating to Dublin Airport. In addition, other rail and coach alternatives are available from Portlaoise.

The National Transport Authority will provide a replacement bus service from Portlaoise to Urlingford and Cashel and is finalising the details of that service. Customers using the new NTA service could then connect to a range of coach and rail services to and from Dublin city in Portlaoise.

Bus Éireann would like to apologise to customers for any inconvenience caused by these changes.

New 63-seater coaches will be operating on Route X8 with improved customer facilities including free Wi-Fi, power sockets at selected seats, ISOFIX attachment points for child safety seats, and extra comfort seating.

lxflyer wrote: »

Are we not deviating wildly off topic here? None of this has anything to do with RTPI.

Quite possibly, but sure what matter?:)

The issue of intermediate stops being served by the buses, I think, is an interesting topic.

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes it is but it's a completely different one!!

Perhaps, but I thought that it was a valid point that was made by stevemul, that there are places up and down the country with no bus services at all, compared to Dublin city centre, where many of the Dublin buses during the day run every 10-15 minutes.

Even if the real time display isn't working, if I am standing at a bus stop in Dublin I'll know there'll be another service of that bus on the way.

The same can't be said if you are in any rural location and there's one bus service that you are relying on taking to any town and if it's late you don't know if you'll get into whatever town you're going to, to be there in time for another bus connection to places like Dublin or Galway or Cork.

Related to this:
When you're looking at one of these signs and it says "4 min" or "6 min" what does the "min" mean? I initially assumed it meant "minute" thus indicating the number of minutes until the bus arrives. However, anyone who uses the bus service in this country will know that can't possibly be true. Are they perhaps some unit of measuring time introduced by Dublin bus and if so is there a conversion chart somewhere that will explain how they relate to real world minutes?

Back on topic folks, please

Qualitymark wrote: »

It does mean minutes; the Irish is 'nóiméid', isn't it?

I think we have a sarcasm detection fail

It happens regularly to me getting the 45a from Dun Laoghaire. It gets down to one minute and then disappears, sometimes showing up 15 minutes after it disappears. It's the start of the route so very strange.

Twice I've looked at the real time information on at the stop outside dun Laoghaire shopping centre only to see no 45as on the board so I've started walking to the dart. Then as I was halfway between that stop and the stop outside the Pavillion the bus drives past. Very annoying!

Woshy wrote: »

It happens regularly to me getting the 45a from Dun Laoghaire. It gets down to one minute and then disappears, sometimes showing up 15 minutes after it disappears. It's the start of the route so very strange.

Twice I've looked at the real time information on at the stop outside dun Laoghaire shopping centre only to see no 45as on the board so I've started walking to the dart. Then as I was halfway between that stop and the stop outside the Pavillion the bus drives past. Very annoying!

Came in here to make this exact post, totally infuriating, and you don't dare go get a coffee or step into a shop because the ghost bus might come around the corner right then or it might be 45 minutes away after it disappears.

It is a virtual guarantee on the Portbello-start 142s to UCD. The RTU is so lax that it's best just operating within a 5 minute-ish margin-of-error. It'll disappear and reappear a couple of times.

The 18 is quite wonderful for it too. A 20 minute wait for a bus that never appears, then, as you start strolling onward, guess what shows up?