TCD or UCD for Undergrad Medicine?

DarraghMcK · 23-06-2011 8:30pm #1

Can't seem to find somewhere with common ground between the two colleges (Maybe a mod could help me out with this)

Basically, I'm just wondering which people think, (or have concluded from hearing or experience) is the better college for undergraduate medicine.

I can't find a forum post 2007 so I expect much has changed since then.
I had pretty decided on going for Trinity up until today. City Centre location very near to where I live, wouldn't have to travel to far for the placements and clinical stuff (I'm based in Crumlin), 300 year old medical school, plus the sort of prestige of a TRINITY degree if you get me.

However I took part in the UCD open day today as was very impressed by what I saw, all the modern stuff, the facilities etc. really had me reconsidering. That said, I'd previously dismissed UCD as I had perceived that it was too far too travel (found out this was not the case really), and that the hospitals they do the clinical training with where a little difficult to travel to (I don't drive and won't be for the foreseeable future).

My question is whether (from what I've read) Trinity has moved on from the so called archaic teaching methods and the like that you read about on here, or is it more of the same? Would current students encourage an aspiring med student to go to Trinity or run of too UCD and their shiny new buildings?

I'm not sure if I made myself perfectly clear feel free if anything needs clarifying and I look forward to hearing from you all

Iceuil · 26-06-2011 8:56pm

Sorry I cant answer your question, because Im in 6th year now, but why arent you considering RCSI? I have heard a lot about archaic teaching methods in TCD and about huge class sizes in UCD.

blubloblu · 26-06-2011 9:30pm

Trinity have an even shinier newer building now: http://www.rkd.ie/Portfolio_Research_BiosciencesCentreTrinityCollegeDublin.php?PHPSESSID=5ebd6923c983e950f51e7653c84418f2

DarraghMcK · 26-06-2011 11:19pm

blubloblu wrote: »

Trinity have an even shinier newer building now: http://www.rkd.ie/Portfolio_Research_BiosciencesCentreTrinityCollegeDublin.php?PHPSESSID=5ebd6923c983e950f51e7653c84418f2

Shiny

DarraghMcK · 26-06-2011 11:21pm

Iceuil wrote: »

Sorry I cant answer your question, because Im in 6th year now, but why arent you considering RCSI? I have heard a lot about archaic teaching methods in TCD and about huge class sizes in UCD.

Hadn't really considered it tbh. From what I here you get the best Practical experience there but not the best academic wise. I'd definitely put it dont on the CAO anyways. My main problem is its one or the other with UCD or Trinity because Trinity has to go in first choice if you want to do it if you get me

s0ur_cherry · 27-06-2011 2:43am

DarraghMcK wrote: »

Can't seem to find somewhere with common ground between the two colleges (Maybe a mod could help me out with this)

Basically, I'm just wondering which people think, (or have concluded from hearing or experience) is the better college for undergraduate medicine.

I can't find a forum post 2007 so I expect much has changed since then.
I had pretty decided on going for Trinity up until today. City Centre location very near to where I live, wouldn't have to travel to far for the placements and clinical stuff (I'm based in Crumlin), 300 year old medical school, plus the sort of prestige of a TRINITY degree if you get me.

However I took part in the UCD open day today as was very impressed by what I saw, all the modern stuff, the facilities etc. really had me reconsidering. That said, I'd previously dismissed UCD as I had perceived that it was too far too travel (found out this was not the case really), and that the hospitals they do the clinical training with where a little difficult to travel to (I don't drive and won't be for the foreseeable future).

My question is whether (from what I've read) Trinity has moved on from the so called archaic teaching methods and the like that you read about on here, or is it more of the same? Would current students encourage an aspiring med student to go to Trinity or run of too UCD and their shiny new buildings?

I'm not sure if I made myself perfectly clear feel free if anything needs clarifying and I look forward to hearing from you all

I had the same reservations about TCD med last year when filling out my cao, after reading various reports online about "archaic teaching methods" etc. In the end I just went with my gut, which was to put Trinity first, and I have to say I'm really glad I did!

I'm only heading into 2nd med so I can't speak for the later years, but as far as teaching goes, I imagine it's really all the one in the sense that it's mostly self-directed. You'll quickly find that college is different to secondary school in that the teachers(/lecturers/whatever you want to call them) aren't there to spoon-feed you but rather to facilitate you going away and learning the information yourself. For most subjects the lecture notes are more than enough to do well in your exams and the vast majority of those are freely available online. The only subject where I'd have any sort of qualm about the lecturing was Biochem. Sometimes I found the lectures/notes didn't cover everything that we had to know to answer the exam questions. Then the recommended textbooks had far too much information. In the end you might have to spend a couple hours sifting through reams of superfluous material to find the important bits on a topic, which was a bit frustrating at times.

Trinity Med also use PBL (problem based learning) for first years, which is basically where you get a scenario, formulate learning goals yourselves based on said scenario, go away and research these, come back and report your findings. You then repeat.. over and over and over.. I have to say that I absolutely hated these, but others seemed not to mind them. Although you have 4 hours worth of PBL tutorials a week I don't think the med school take it very seriously because, 1. They're worth a paltry 5% of (I think) two modules 2. You get the full 5% if you simply attend all the tutorials. 3. Most of the tutors don't seem to really care and will give you a decent assessment regardless of how much/little you participate/attend 4. They only make first years do it.
One tip I would give to future first years is not to spend too much time preparing for PBL, most people seemed to spend agesss doing the research for it (like, 2 hours for each scenario). Considering how little it's worth I thought that was a bit(read:very) unnecessary.

Another thing is that the school of med can be a bit disorganised at times, i.e. scheduling the same lecture at the same time in two different places etc. But most of the time they're alright.

ok this message is getting long so I'll try and be more concise. Positives about TCD (and yeah, I'd imagine some of these probably apply to most med schools tbh but I'm including them anyway):

-daycent social life (believe it or not, I honestly believe meds have one of the best social lives of all college students. At least in preclinical years.)
-great camaradarie in the med class. you do get to know your class so well and by the end of the year you're sure to have made loads of new friends and a few new besties as well..
-the med school is moving into a new building on Pearse St. next year, with brand spanking new facilities/equipment.
-good reputation internationally.
-good location, easy to access, as are the training hospitals (st james' anyway, maybe not tallaght as much. though it is on the luas line.)
-trinity is pretty.
-the pav.
-yes i realise these reasons are getting weaker but I'm tired.

So, in summary, Trinity is great. After my year there I would wholeheartedly recommend it to any perspective med students. If you can deal with the few negatives I mentioned earlier you'll be grandddd. Honestly, it's really good fun, I was actually kinda sad that we finished so early this year haha

Hope this helped a little bit and if you have any other questions about the course/trinity I'd be more than happy to answer!

theowen · 27-06-2011 4:41am

s0ur_cherry wrote: »

I had the same reservations about TCD med last year when filling out my cao, after reading various reports online about "archaic teaching methods" etc. In the end I just went with my gut, which was to put Trinity first, and I have to say I'm really glad I did!

I'm only heading into 2nd med so I can't speak for the later years, but as far as teaching goes, I imagine it's really all the one in the sense that it's mostly self-directed. You'll quickly find that college is different to secondary school in that the teachers(/lecturers/whatever you want to call them) aren't there to spoon-feed you but rather to facilitate you going away and learning the information yourself. For most subjects the lecture notes are more than enough to do well in your exams and the vast majority of those are freely available online. The only subject where I'd have any sort of qualm about the lecturing was Biochem. Sometimes I found the lectures/notes didn't cover everything that we had to know to answer the exam questions. Then the recommended textbooks had far too much information. In the end you might have to spend a couple hours sifting through reams of superfluous material to find the important bits on a topic, which was a bit frustrating at times.

Trinity Med also use PBL (problem based learning) for first years, which is basically where you get a scenario, formulate learning goals yourselves based on said scenario, go away and research these, come back and report your findings. You then repeat.. over and over and over.. I have to say that I absolutely hated these, but others seemed not to mind them. Although you have 4 hours worth of PBL tutorials a week I don't think the med school take it very seriously because, 1. They're worth a paltry 5% of (I think) two modules 2. You get the full 5% if you simply attend all the tutorials. 3. Most of the tutors don't seem to really care and will give you a decent assessment regardless of how much/little you participate/attend 4. They only make first years do it.
One tip I would give to future first years is not to spend too much time preparing for PBL, most people seemed to spend agesss doing the research for it (like, 2 hours for each scenario). Considering how little it's worth I thought that was a bit(read:very) unnecessary.

Another thing is that the school of med can be a bit disorganised at times, i.e. scheduling the same lecture at the same time in two different places etc. But most of the time they're alright.

ok this message is getting long so I'll try and be more concise. Positives about TCD (and yeah, I'd imagine some of these probably apply to most med schools tbh but I'm including them anyway):

-daycent social life (believe it or not, I honestly believe meds have one of the best social lives of all college students. At least in preclinical years.)
-great camaradarie in the med class. you do get to know your class so well and by the end of the year you're sure to have made loads of new friends and a few new besties as well..
-the med school is moving into a new building on Pearse St. next year, with brand spanking new facilities/equipment.
-good reputation internationally.
-good location, easy to access, as are the training hospitals (st james' anyway, maybe not tallaght as much. though it is on the luas line.)
-trinity is pretty.
-the pav.
-yes i realise these reasons are getting weaker but I'm tired.

So, in summary, Trinity is great. After my year there I would wholeheartedly recommend it to any perspective med students. If you can deal with the few negatives I mentioned earlier you'll be grandddd. Honestly, it's really good fun, I was actually kinda sad that we finished so early this year haha

Hope this helped a little bit and if you have any other questions about the course/trinity I'd be more than happy to answer!

PBL, the only thing I disliked about first year med. Everything else was/is great.

Vorsprung · 27-06-2011 4:58am

If you're basing your choice of medical school on apparent prestige, stop! Think about where you're based, ease of travelling to your college/hospitals and other more practical considerations.

No-one is bothered about what college you go to after you finish intern year. Indeed, since the new centralised intern allocations system has come in, it probably means nothing! Your ability to gets jobs in future will depend partly on how good your degree is, your references, your other jobs to date and courses/research.

AndrewJD · 27-06-2011 2:18pm

theowen wrote: »

PBL, the only thing I disliked about first year med. Everything else was/is great.

I thought PBL was great. Dunno why people hated it. Sitting around talking about appendicitis for an hour is much better than getting Biochemistry thrown at you, surely...

bythewoods · 27-06-2011 3:08pm

Yeah, as Vorsprung said, don't even bother choosing Trinity for the "prestige" as that doesn't really matter to anyone any more.
In terms of facilities, Trinity just opened a brand new Med-building last week which you'll be the first to try out! UCD's Med-building is fantastic as well. So, really, much of a muchness.

UCD and TCD both have up and down-sides as far as I can see. I'm going into 3rd Med in Trinity, and am definitely glad I came here. In fact, I was doing Pre-Med in UCD and dropped out, but that's not indicative of anything but personal preference really.

Trinity are perhaps more old-fashioned in that self-directed learning is a very big focus. Also, most of the assessment is to the end of each semester (Xmas exams and Summer exams). In UCD, there seems to be a little more continuous assessment, and they also work strictly off system-based learning, so are examined after studying each "system" as far as I know. So, for example, they'll do everything on the respiratory system and get examined on it, then move on to something else. Trinity is loosely systems-based too. Personally, Trinity's approach suits me better but it depends on your learning style, really.

There are some seriously top-notch lecturers in Trinity, but yeah, there are a few oldies too. The good outweighs the bad, for sure. The lecturers in Anatomy, for example, are brilliant here.

From midway through 2nd year on, you'll be seeing less and less of campus, and more of hospitals, particularly St James'. My overwhelming advice would be to stick Trinity down because a commute from Crumlin- James's is completely doable, whereas Crumlin- Vincents (Oh god, let's hope my knowledge of Dublin Geography carries me forward here...) is much less manageable.

I'd make your decision based on things like Premed. Interested in doing it? You may not be given a choice if you end up in UCD. Location. City centre vs Outskirts, will you be cursing yourself if you're doing a whopper commute everyday instead of a less-whopper one? Atmosphere? I really don't like UCD with it's vast, impersonal crassness and much prefer the atmosphere around Trinity. That's a personal thing, again, but it's a factor. Friends? You'll make friends in your year, regardless, but if all your mates are heading to Trinity/UCD then it's always nice to catch them for lunch or whatever.

Kwekubo · 28-06-2011 1:56am

As Vorsprung says above, the new matching scheme means you can now apply to do your intern jobs in any approved teaching hospital across Ireland (not just those linked to your medical school), making your choice of where to study even less significant. I remember seeing the same stuff stuff about archaic methods etc when I was applying and it really seems like someone caught a serious dose of the Chinese whispers somewhere a while back. The Medical Council inspected Trinity this year, the final years they talked to were really positive about their experiences and felt like they had been taught to be great clinicians. Sour cherry and bythewoods have given good summaries of what to expect, but I imagine that most aspects will apply to all medical schools.

I chose Trinity because it was in the city centre, because it has a nice "collegiate" campus, and because of the chance to meet people doing various different courses (which would be harder at RCSI in particular). I did schols in second year which meant I've had free accommodation in college for the last two years, something I wouldn't have been able to justify paying for as a Dubliner. James's is the largest hospital in Ireland and is really well run. Tallaght is a little far out but it's on the Luas line (as is James's) which makes commuting less of a pain and has a great clinical skills lab. All three sites are easily accessible from Crumlin; I know what I'd put down as my first choice if I was in your position. But to reiterate, a medical degree is a medical degree, and almost everyone ends up loving their university and the people they meet no matter where they go in the end.

Edit: 1,028 posts. Hexadecimalicious!

Moilby · 17-09-2014 8:47pm

Can someone please tell me the hours for 3rd year medicine in Ucd. Ive heard its 9-5 am i correct?

Abby19 · 17-09-2014 10:50pm

Moilby wrote: »

Can someone please tell me the hours for 3rd year medicine in Ucd. Ive heard its 9-5 am i correct?

May be best to post this question in the UCD forum if you are wondering about UCD hours.
If you are asking about 3rd year hours in TCD it depends on the team you are assigned to. Surgery starts earlier, can be 7/7:30 depending on team. Medicine can start at 8/9 again depending on team and the hospital you are in.

TCD or UCD for Undergrad Medicine?

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