Subaru Legacy reliability

15-06-2008 11:45am #1

Hi,

Does anyone know of any detailed sources for info on Subaru Legacy reliability (2004 model onwards?)

The Honest John info seems to be based around one or two driver's experience (one isn't good at all...) and the JD Power 2008 info doesn't show it in the top 100 cars...

http://www.whatcar.com/NonCar/75881243591.jpg

Is there a UK Subaru forum that's not dedicated to driving the lard out of an Impreza?

TomMc · 15-06-2008 1:12pm

We have a 3 yr old 2.0 and it has virtually been as reliable as all my previous Mitsubishi's which never missed a beat. And far more so than the BMW.

The Legacy had one little electronic blip issue when 2 weeks old when some dodgy sensor meant the auto gearbox got stuck in sports mode where you could not shift/move the gearlevel, sorted under warranty. Ever since nothing but routine servicing. Ownership as it should be. I would buy another without a moments hesitation. God bless the Japs.

TomMc · 15-06-2008 1:22pm

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/subaru/legacy-sports-tourer-2003.aspx

S.I.R · 15-06-2008 4:27pm

Subaru in the last 15 years have improved all there models 10 fold... most are great, despite the usual abuse they suffer.

junkyard · 15-06-2008 5:02pm

Nothing wrong with the older ones either, great cars.

Max_Damage · 15-06-2008 5:47pm

The older ones (i.e. the 80's models) weren't that great. Things really improved from the Impreza onwards.

pburns · 15-06-2008 6:29pm

OP - what exact model are you considering? S/H or new? Petrol or one of the new diesels?

I've driven the diesel and well impressed. AutoExpress complained that it is unrefined at idle but that's bull**** IMO - gem of an engine, v. petrol-like in it's ability to rev and a lovely boxer burble.

Spoke to a (quite blunt!) Subaru dealer who said he was dreading the thought of a yardful of petrol Scoobies traded in against the diesel. He doesn't want thirsty petrols that he can't sell - so a good time to buy one if you can stand the MPG...

cantdecide · 15-06-2008 7:30pm

My brother has a '98 2.5 with 145k and trust me, if they were breakable, my brother would have done it by now.

BrianD3 · 15-06-2008 8:32pm

Subaru Legacy gets a relatively poor rating on www.reliabilityindex.co.uk The data on this site is based on warranty claims and includes average time off the road, average cost of repairs etc.

15-06-2008 8:46pm

pburns wrote: »

OP - what exact model are you considering? S/H or new? Petrol or one of the new diesels?

Thinking of a new diesel but worried that as its a new design it'll have dual mass flywheel problems/injector problems to have sorted out - it took Toyota a couple of years to sort out the D4D (from what I've read on the Toyota owners club website) and some manufacturers never seem to fully get these things sorted. One owner referred to by Honest John had all sorts of problems with his Legacy from brake discs to dash rattles, clutch problems, suspension bushes etc. There's only a two year warranty on new Subarus in Ireland.

Bottom line is that I can buy a new Avensis diesel or for 4k more a new Legacy diesel. I know that the Avensis is regarded as boring but 4k is a lot of money to me and I want as near as I can get to total reliability and half decent resale value. Both the Avensis and Legacy are due to be replaced soon.

15-06-2008 8:51pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Subaru Legacy gets a relatively poor rating on www.reliabilityindex.co.uk The data on this site is based on warranty claims and includes average time off the road, average cost of repairs etc.

I looked at that - while its worth taking into account, I'm not sure with how these different factors are weighted - I'm very suspicious of the Corolla's poor result for instance. I also believe that the model year of the car must be taken into account. For example, the Peugeot 307 was quite well sorted at the end of its life but a complete dog for the first couple of years of production. I can live with 2004 Legacy's being a bit unreliable but would like to know that 2007 ones were as near to faultless as possible.

BrianD3 · 15-06-2008 9:01pm

245 wrote: »

Thinking of a new diesel but worried that as its a new design it'll have dual mass flywheel problems/injector problems to have sorted out - it took Toyota a couple of years to sort out the D4D (from what I've read on the Toyota owners club website) and some manufacturers never seem to fully get these things sorted. One owner referred to by Honest John had all sorts of problems with his Legacy from brake discs to dash rattles, clutch problems, suspension bushes etc. There's only a two year warranty on new Subarus in Ireland.

Honestjohn is a poor website, there is a lot of bad information on it and it can be very misleading or just downright wrong. You will often find that relatively common issues with a particular car are not mentioned at all while less common issues are overemphasised. And as you have noticed with the Legacy, evaluation of cars can be based on very limited sample size.

If you like the Subaru you should buy it and not get too hung up on predicting reliability. If there are any major issues with the car they should mainfest themselves within the warranty period anyway. If you are buying a car towards the end of its production cycle most/all issues should have been sorted already.

pburns · 15-06-2008 9:25pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

If you like the Subaru you should buy it and not get too hung up on predicting reliability. If there are any major issues with the car they should mainfest themselves within the warranty period anyway. If you are buying a car towards the end of its production cycle most/all issues should have been sorted already.

I agree, you do seem to be getting a little hung-up on reliability stats. There are some awful problems listed on various sites for my current car but i have experienced none of them. A lot of problems are over-hyped in cyberspace...

Having said that, there are a lot of factors against the Subaru diesel at the moment.
- best to wait until tried-and-tested for a while.
- a new model is due next year
- a AWD car is gonna struggle to be as economical in everyday driving
- diesels' advantages being eroded by price at the pump (and things will only get worse according to 9oclock News).

I'd take the Subaru every time but if money tight at the moment the Toyota is probably more sensible...

E92 · 15-06-2008 9:47pm

The Mondeo ECOnetic is quite possibly the best car out there of that type. It is years ahead of the Avensis and starts from €29,715 from July though unfortunately is not available as a saloon.

Subaru have a fairly enviable reputation when it comes to reliability anyway. The Boxer diesel is a very timely addition to the range.

TomMc · 15-06-2008 9:58pm

I have driven an Avensis and I would not buy one if they were half the price of the Legacy. The Subaru is in a different league. And really it is only the engine that is new, the rest of the car is tried and tested. I would expect Legacy values to be excellent as it is one of the few cars today that are engineered beyond what it's retail price might suggest. While overly conservative (& somewhat unthinking) people buy used Toyotas & VW's based on perceived build quality, reliability and residuals etc, now that Subaru have a diesel you will find that their superior engineering & driving dynamics will capture a whole new audience. They have pretty much everything as standard, little or no options list. The new diesel cars will have stronger resale values than the petrol equivalents and there will almost certainly be a limited supply of diesel cars available. They will not be common as muck like most. Get in now and order one, but go for the estate. It is a pity they are manual only but this will still suit most buyers.

It is because they were 2.0, 2.5 & 3.0 petrols only till now that they are/were a niche choice. With limited appeal in the second hand market. Most people in modern Ireland want a so called prestige brand for the kind of money / running costs involved and are too ignorant to discern real quality from badge snobbery, urban myths and the like.

The Legacy is highly favoured amongst the old-money set for a reason, they are the very antithesis of todays middle class pretentiousness and are built to last. When you grow up with the finer things in life, you can appreciate the difference. Let the masses have their affectations, the thinking man goes with the wonderfully understated Legacy. Unless you want to go for the impressive but ubiquitous Mondeo.

15-06-2008 10:46pm

TomMc wrote: »

I have driven an Avensis and I would not buy one if they were half the price of the Legacy. The Subaru is in a different league. And really it is only the engine that is new, the rest of the car is tried and tested.

Thanks -I drove an Avensis recently and struggles to tell it apart from a Corolla but it probbaly wasn't a long enough drive.

The engine's the expensive bit if it goes wrong. If it eats its turbo or has flywheel problems outside warranty then.... I'm planning 50,000 km per year in it.

I'm really tempted by it - it offers both a decent drive and comparitive rarity - I seem to see nothing but Avensis(s) these days....

E92 · 15-06-2008 10:59pm

The Avensis is zzzzzzz to drive.

Brilliant car to be a passenger in though.

pburns · 15-06-2008 11:45pm

TomMc wrote: »

I have driven an Avensis and I would not buy one if they were half the price of the Legacy. The Subaru is in a different league. And really it is only the engine that is new, the rest of the car is tried and tested. I would expect Legacy values to be excellent as it is one of the few cars today that are engineered beyond what it's retail price might suggest. While overly conservative (& somewhat unthinking) people buy used Toyotas & VW's based on perceived build quality, reliability and residuals etc, now that Subaru have a diesel you will find that their superior engineering & driving dynamics will capture a whole new audience. They have pretty much everything as standard, little or no options list. The new diesel cars will have stronger resale values than the petrol equivalents and there will almost certainly be a limited supply of diesel cars available. They will not be common as muck like most. Get in now and order one, but go for the estate. It is a pity they are manual only but this will still suit most buyers.

It is because they were 2.0, 2.5 & 3.0 petrols only till now that they are/were a niche choice. With limited appeal in the second hand market. Most people in modern Ireland want a so called prestige brand for the kind of money / running costs involved and are too ignorant to discern real quality from badge snobbery, urban myths and the like.

The Legacy is highly favoured amongst the old-money set for a reason, they are the very antithesis of todays middle class pretentiousness and are built to last. When you grow up with the finer things in life, you can appreciate the difference. Let the masses have their affectations, the thinking man goes with the wonderfully understated Legacy. Unless you want to go for the impressive but ubiquitous Mondeo.

I agree 100%. I've test-driven BMW/Audi and Subaru and it is the latter that made me excited in a way the others just didn't. The engine noise, the grip, the engineering and build quality. Even the interior surprised me (it has to be said the new Imprezas is rubbish though).

Watching the stuffed shirts going out for test drives in the A4 convinced me I wanted something a little more discerning. The BMW has a similar problem in my eyes but at least it's a driver's tool.

sk8board · 20-06-2008 11:01pm

Heres some mechanical porn re: the boxer diesel. Horizontal pistons anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-G5TcWg0TMc

also, heres an odd vid of the boxer idling. Considering the bonnet is open, I've heard petrols that sound louder than that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo9wRfd4QkI&NR=1

According to the launch blurb, the engine set-up causes it to burble when revved; is that marketing or over-engineering, I'm not sure

Also the horizontal set-up means it sits lower in the engine bay, making cornering better (Again, its the blurb talking)

heck of a package though. Could tempt me away from a V50 yet. Cheaper too, and AWD. A car anoracks car.

E92 · 20-06-2008 11:10pm

The Legacy paraffin stove starts at €29,995 from July, a very good figure considering it will come pack to the gills with equipment going by past form from Subaru.

Hopefully the diesel will be a big success for them - I think it will make their cars a lot more appealing having a diesel for here at any rate.

EDIT: a fiver short of 30 grand actually:o

Magic ]=) · 20-06-2008 11:24pm

I wouldn't bother checking reliability sites. This will only mess with your head.
Check th uk legacy forum for opinions on Legacys from the users.
I'm driving Legacy 2004 and will defo recommend it! I'd love to buy a new diesel if I could afford it

but... I'd rather wait a year to see how they're gettin on the roads. It's new engine and needs to be tested in time.

@ sk8board: diesel will be diesel and outside it will sound the same as any other.
Here's fairly reliable proof that's boxer diesel is quiet as it should be (INSIDE):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H0Q0IS18tw&NR=1

E92 · 20-06-2008 11:30pm

It is very quiet for a diesel - and even sounds good for a diesel too!

As a car enthusiast I always find it fascinating when car makers do something different, and I admire Subaru for making the world's first Boxer diesel engine instead of the usual 4 cylinders in a line preferred by everyone else for 4 pot diesels.

In today's world, where more and more cars are becoming more and more similar, and I find a lot of the weirder designs are going, this is refreshing to see and I admire Subaru for having the balls to do it in these monotonous and boring times.

pburns · 20-06-2008 11:31pm

sk8board wrote: »

According to the launch blurb, the engine set-up causes it to burble when revved; is that marketing or over-engineering, I'm not sure

Also the horizontal set-up means it sits lower in the engine bay, making cornering better (Again, its the blurb talking)

heck of a package though. Could tempt me away from a V50 yet. Cheaper too, and AWD. A car anoracks car.

I can vouch for the burble. Surprised the hell out of me. Honest John said it still sounds like a diesel at idle - can't say I noticed but wouldn't bother me one way or the other.

The refinement and smoothness on the move is better than many a petrol - I read Subaru are claiming it's quieter at cruising speed than a Rolls Royce Phantom:

"Refinement is also a Boxer Diesel strongpoint, with official moving sound levels of 70.5 dB (A) compared to the Mondeo’s 71.0 and Passat’s 73 dB (A). Even a Rolls-Royce Phantom is higher at 72.0 dB (A)."
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/01/subaru-legacy-outback-boxer-diesel.html

Doesn't say much for the Rolls actually!

sk8board · 20-06-2008 11:36pm

pburns wrote: »

"Refinement is also a Boxer Diesel strongpoint, with official moving sound levels of 70.5 dB (A) compared to the Mondeo’s 71.0 and Passat’s 73 dB (A). Even a Rolls-Royce Phantom is higher at 72.0 dB (A)."
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2008/01/subaru-legacy-outback-boxer-diesel.html

Doesn't say much for the Rolls actually!

and 60-100 in a fairly reasonable 4 or 5 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igbbjS7QJyM

unkel · 20-06-2008 11:45pm

E92 wrote: »

The Legacy paraffin stove starts at €29,745 from July

That's a good price. Subaru should do well selling the diesels here. Just as well as they will suffer a serious set back in selling any petrol cars apart from the tiny engined petrol Imprezas

E92 · 20-06-2008 11:56pm

Well they do have a Justy that gets into 16% VRT(that is based on the Daihatsu Charade).

The diesel will make the larger cars a lot more appealing though, no doubt about it, especially when for the first time it is a Subaru that is as good as the competition for frugality and hence CO2.

The Impreza will get the Boxer diesel in time, and the Boxer diesel is good for 180 bhp too apparently, Subaru's UK bosses want them to start selling a WRX with this more powerful Boxer engine.

21-06-2008 9:43am

Thanks for all the advice and comments - I've ordered one

I'll put my faith in the warranty and keep an eye on feedback on the reliability of the diesel. Very glad now that I didn't go for the Avensis...

Anan1 · 21-06-2008 10:37am

I'd be surprised if reliability wasn't excellent, good luck with the new car.

dubman25 · 21-06-2008 10:51am

id buy the avensis 10 times quicker than the legacy.the avensis is built like a tank and they are a much more reliable car.toyota "the best built cars in the world" ...doesnt that say it for you:D

also the avensis is a nicer looking car in and out and will hold its value more

Anan1 · 21-06-2008 11:09am

dubman25 wrote: »

id buy the avensis 10 times quicker than the legacy.the avensis is built like a tank and they are a much more reliable car.toyota "the best built cars in the world" ...doesnt that say it for you:D

also the avensis is a nicer looking car in and out and will hold its value more

Toyota might well spend more on advertising, but have you driven both cars?

E92 · 21-06-2008 11:31am

I think he's taking the p!ss Anan1;)!

Subaru Legacy reliability

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