Why female dating advice is terrible.

scanlas · 04-01-2010 5:35pm #1

I found an interesting article which gives an analogy between a female giving dating advice to men and a learning about cooking from a food critic instead of a chef. Thought it was a good read.

http://www.tenmagnet.com/2010/01/03/why-men-are-better-than-women-at-giving-dating-advice-to-men/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Tenmagnet+%28Tenmagnet%29

star-pants · 04-01-2010 6:03pm

Very generic statement there.

Some women give bad dating advice, so do some guys - that's my opinion on the matter.

scanlas · 04-01-2010 7:24pm

star-pants wrote: »

Very generic statement there.

Some women give bad dating advice, so do some guys - that's my opinion on the matter.

That's not the point. Most people would give bad dating advice.

But women on average don't nearly have the potential of men to give good dating advice because they can never be in the position of baking the cake, only eating it. All they can really do ( for the vast majority) is tell you if the cake tastes and looks nice. They couldn't give you good advice on how to make it.

star-pants · 04-01-2010 7:28pm

scanlas wrote: »

That's not the point. Most people would give bad dating advice.

But women on average don't nearly have the potential of men to give good dating advice because they can never be in the position of baking the cake, only eating it. All they can really do ( for the vast majority) is tell you if the cake tastes and looks nice. They couldn't give you good advice on how to make it.

How does that make sense?
Men AND women are involved in dating, not just one side. So how does 'only men bake cakes and only women eat them' relate to dating?

minidazzler · 04-01-2010 7:44pm

To be fair, noone can really give the opposite sex advice. Only the same sex.

Women can't give men advice because women tell you what they think they like rather than what they actually respond to. Women will respond well to alot of stuff they think they shouldn't like and say they don't. (Yes I am giving massive generalisations here but it is true in my experience.)

Silverfish · 04-01-2010 7:49pm

I can honestly say I can give advice on picking up women, but I can't guarantee it would work because a) I've never done it and b) I'd be saying from my opinion, which is not going to work for EVERY female, so most of the advice would be way off.

That said, I've mostly done the asking out in any relationship I've been in.

But for dating advice in general, its no worse than anyone else's advice imo.

scanlas · 04-01-2010 7:49pm

star-pants wrote: »

How does that make sense?
Men AND women are involved in dating, not just one side. So how does 'only men bake cakes and only women eat them' relate to dating?

Women can spot men who can inspire a feeling of attraction in them, but often they backwards rationalize what it is about them that attracts them and get it wrong. And then even if they do correctly identify the attractive qualities that they really respond to, they can't put themselves into the perspective of a man which is important to know how to go through the process of nurturing and building those attractive qualities out of your average man.

star-pants · 04-01-2010 8:28pm

scanlas wrote: »

Women can spot men who can inspire a feeling of attraction in them, but often they backwards rationalize what it is about them that attracts them and get it wrong. And then even if they do correctly identify the attractive qualities that they really respond to, they can't put themselves into the perspective of a man which is important to know how to go through the process of nurturing and building those attractive qualities out of your average man.

But men can do this to women?
Men can put themselves into the perspective of a woman?

BumbleB · 04-01-2010 9:36pm

scanlas wrote: »

Women can spot men who can inspire a feeling of attraction in them, but often they backwards rationalize what it is about them that attracts them and get it wrong. And then even if they do correctly identify the attractive qualities that they really respond to, they can't put themselves into the perspective of a man which is important to know how to go through the process of nurturing and building those attractive qualities out of your average man.

In fairness scanlas thats ridiculous, how in a million years will you or any man will be able to accurately say what a woman thinks .All women are wildcards in my view ,all different and interesting .

scanlas · 04-01-2010 9:46pm

BumbleB wrote: »

In fairness scanlas thats ridiculous, how in a million years will you or any man will be able to accurately say what a woman thinks .All women are wildcards in my view ,all different and interesting .

I never said I or any man can read minds of any kind. A woman can never have the experience of trying to chat up a woman as man unless of course she had a sex change in the past. A man can learn from experience the things that work well for the majority of women through trial and error and understand how a man feels in various situations with women. The man with the experience can give him advice which is effective whereas the woman gives advice which she thinks would be effective.

trout · 04-01-2010 10:14pm

scanlas wrote: »

The man with the experience can give him advice which is effective whereas the woman gives advice which she thinks would be effective.

So a woman gives advice she thinks would be effective, but an experienced man gives advice that is (bound to be) effective ... is that it ?

scanlas · 04-01-2010 11:41pm

trout wrote: »

So a woman gives advice she thinks would be effective, but an experienced man gives advice that is (bound to be) effective ... is that it ?

Experienced men will give bad advice too ( some chefs make horrible food), but men have a much greater potential to give effective advice.
Men can get a much better picture of cause and effect through actual results. Now the picture won't be HD quality, more like a tele from the 60s. But a woman's picture is more like someone looking at 1920s movie through glasses 10 diopters out of focus.

trout · 05-01-2010 12:16am

I read the article again, IMO it seems to be part blog, part sales pitch and then the analogy which, on the surface at least, is self-evident.

The author asserts men are better than women at giving dating advice to men.

Fair enough. I could assert that women are better than men at giving dating advice to women; don't flame me ... I'm just running a "thought experiment" like the author of the linked article.

I'll go a step further and posit : X are better than Y at giving Z advice to X

Here's one ... Motorists are better than pedestrians at giving driving advice to motorists.

Or ... Footballers are better than swimmers at giving soccer advice to footballers.

So ... the linked article makes a point, men are better than women at giving dating advice to men; personally, I don't see how that equates to "Why female dating advice is terrible" ... but I will freely admit that PUA is not my area of expertise.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 05-01-2010 1:12am

Good article. Agree with its sentiments. I can't really remember ever getting "dating advice" from female friends though, do other posters get it?

trout, I think your analogies are exactly what the author was trying to get across, much like what he said about cooking and food critics.... are you criticising him or the OP of this thread?

PK2008 · 05-01-2010 1:20am

scanlas wrote: »

That's not the point. Most people would give bad dating advice.

But women on average don't nearly have the potential of men to give good dating advice because they can never be in the position of baking the cake, only eating it. All they can really do ( for the vast majority) is tell you if the cake tastes and looks nice. They couldn't give you good advice on how to make it.

Ok everyone just hold on a minute........................

Does anyone here actually have any cake?

trout · 05-01-2010 1:35am

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Good article. Agree with its sentiments. I can't really remember ever getting "dating advice" from female friends though, do other posters get it?

trout, I think your analogies are exactly what the author was trying to get across, much like what he said about cooking and food critics.... are you criticising him or the OP of this thread?

I was commenting and responding to the linked article. I can entertain the concept, and the analogy. The criticism I would have is for the conclusion drawn in the article; that women give terrible advice on this topic is less clear to me. I'm not saying it's wrong, or rubbish ... I just don't think it follows logically.

I wonder how many men truthfully ask women for advice on dating other women ?

BumbleB · 05-01-2010 1:53am

PK2008 wrote: »

Ok everyone just hold on a minute........................

Does anyone here actually have any cake?

I hope its cheesecake yum !!

A quiet one · 05-01-2010 9:30am

trout wrote: »

I read the article again, IMO it seems to be part blog, part sales pitch and then the analogy which, on the surface at least, is self-evident.

The author asserts men are better than women at giving dating advice to men.

Fair enough. I could assert that women are better than men at giving dating advice to women; don't flame me ... I'm just running a "thought experiment" like the author of the linked article.

I'll go a step further and posit : X are better than Y at giving Z advice to X

Here's one ... Motorists are better than pedestrians at giving driving advice to motorists.

Or ... Footballers are better than swimmers at giving soccer advice to footballers.

So ... the linked article makes a point, men are better than women at giving dating advice to men; personally, I don't see how that equates to "Why female dating advice is terrible" ... but I will freely admit that PUA is not my area of expertise.

There is a problem with coming up with clever analogies like comparing guy asking for dating advice from a woman and cooking advice from a restaurant critic.

We are invited to gloss over the fact that the restaurant critic, though not a cook, can offer a lot of valuable advice regarding, well, where to find the best food, tips on how to tell a good restaurant from a bad one, advice on deportment is required and even how to judge what to expect before the food has actually arrived.

But, let's not dwell on such deeper details; We're not really supposed to.
That leaves a problem with the analogy itself, because in comparing a resturant critic to the cook what the author seems to be saying is;

As a mater chef, I can tell you, that getting a girl is exactly the same as grilling a slab of meat, or stuffing a turkey.

In reality, neither sex should be trusted simply on account of being male or female because many people's "advice" can be a mixture of self-projection, self promotion, and the exorcising of their own past bad experiences.

A quiet one · 05-01-2010 9:43am

trout wrote: »

I wonder how many men truthfully ask women for advice on dating other women ?

I don't know, but then remembered something. To follow the culinary analogy, if suddenly you think you smell a rat, they guys advice will be,
"eh, but the cake looks delicious and that's all that counts"
Whereas a woman's advice might more likely be,
"Nice cake, really, but aren't those rat droppings around it?"

Sleepy · 05-01-2010 10:26am

I dunno, wasn't it a man who wrote 'he's just not that into you'?

Seems like men are just better at dating advice in general :P

Blitzkrieger · 05-01-2010 1:45pm

In fairness the author does say not to take it too literally. He does say you can get some good advice from women but he sees them as advising on what should be the end result rather than knowing the processes of how to get there. Which, tbh, most of us would probably be guilty of. How many people actually think objectively about what they are doing in social situations instead of doing what comes naturally.

Can't comment from a personal perspective 'cos it's never really come up for me....

PK2008 · 05-01-2010 10:17pm

A quiet one wrote: »

That leaves a problem with the analogy itself, because in comparing a resturant critic to the cook what the author seems to be saying is;

As a master chef, I can tell you, that getting a girl is exactly the same as grilling a slab of meat, or stuffing a turkey.

It is the way I do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I ruined Christmas dinner for everyone this year)

trout · 05-01-2010 11:44pm

Folks - I've had to delete some unsuitable posts in this thread, as they were in breach of the Charter, specifically regarding personal abuse.

Attack the post, not the poster.

We should all be civil enough to agree or disagree with a topic, viewpoint or opinion, without getting personal.

I'm temp locking this thread, pending a review by the mods, so that consensus can form.

It will probably be tomorrow morning before I can post an update.

In the meantime ... let's all play nice.

trout · 06-01-2010 1:31pm

OK ... the mods have convened, and consensus has formed. The thread is open again.

Please, be civil. No matter how much you may disagree with a post, be civil.
If a post makes offends you ... report it. Don't get angry.

Attack the post - not the poster.

Bottle_of_Smoke · 06-01-2010 7:16pm

trout wrote: »

I was commenting and responding to the linked article. I can entertain the concept, and the analogy. The criticism I would have is for the conclusion drawn in the article; that women give terrible advice on this topic is less clear to me. I'm not saying it's wrong, or rubbish ... I just don't think it follows logically.

I wonder how many men truthfully ask women for advice on dating other women ?

I thought his conclusion was quite fair and follows logically-

So what should you take from this? Treat all advice from your female friends with a grain of salt. When a woman is giving you advice from the female perspective, when she’s telling you how a woman reads or experiences a particular situation, you can often rely on that information. But when her advice starts getting “in the kitchen”, you need to recognize that she probably knows less about what she’s talking about than you do.

Now just to clarify I'm assuming he's talking strictly about "dating" and not "being in a relationship" - like first dates or intial "seeing each other". I think females can give great advice in relationships as they can often explain how a woman feels in certain situations that men just wouldn't expect. So long as they have no irrational dislike to the girl of course.

trout · 06-01-2010 8:04pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I thought his conclusion was quite fair and follows logically ...

Fair enough.

I suppose I'm fixing on the "women give terrible advice" angle. If you give better advice to someone than me ... does that automatically make my advice terrible?

I hope not. Advice may be good, great, terrible, mediocre, fair to middlin' ... shades of grey, not black or white.

Pricey · 06-01-2010 8:33pm

Whatever you do, dont take advice given by Women, Its like taking structural advice from a painter and decorator, its inaccurate.

Women think they know what they want, but I enjoy proving them wrong on almost every occasion.
Women like giving opinions even if they are wrong, they just like giving opinions. Ask them for there opinion, and they will talk, and talk, and talk.

I've been working as a Dating instructor for quite a while now, and its better if you hold your cards to your chest, and make women accept whatever you throw at them. because if they are attracted, they will do whatever you say.

Pricey ;-)

A quiet one · 07-01-2010 3:27pm

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

So long as they have no irrational dislike to the girl of course.

That caveat is probably the funniest thing I've read on this.
Tbh, I found something a bit odd about the whole article, but couldn't put my finger on it until I realised that the whole, women's advice is useless is a straw-man argument. Or, actually, a straw-woman one.

Put it this way;
Meet Johnny. Like many lads around him he is a twenty-year old going on fourteen. He's "sound" has no peculiarities either in appearance or character, and no alarm bell in his past; Yet, can't seem to "meet" girls.

Truth is, that if you ask the girls around they'll say, "oh yeah, I know who you mean. Seems fine" and then they'll quickly add "but he's not my type"

If you press a little bit more, you'll find that; "No, I don't want to meet him and be, like, nice to him.. you know what guys are like.. he might just get the wrong idea".

And so it remains for Johnny that every time he makes a move, even to strike up a casual conversation, they run a mile.

So there he is, no girls, no girl contacts, no girls to talk to, so where exactly are all these girls whose advice he should ignore, given that he's not going to be talking to them to get it anyway?

Surely the author isn't having a swipe at the minority of female dating gurus. There been so few, it hardly seems fair to pick on them and it would be weird because it would come across as being like a misogynist giving tips to guys on how to get girls.

Apart from that, the whole PAU thing has an element of natural appeal as it seems to be about rules, and codes, and stealth and tricks and the power of secret know-how and all that stuff has such an enormous appeal for Johnnies. (and even Jeanettes)

BumbleB · 07-01-2010 4:51pm

A quiet one wrote: »

That caveat is probably the funniest thing I've read on this.
Tbh, I found something a bit odd about the whole article, but couldn't put my finger on it until I realised that the whole, women's advice is useless is a straw-man argument. Or, actually, a straw-woman one.

Put it this way;
Meet Johnny. Like many lads around him he is a twenty-year old going on fourteen. He's "sound" has no peculiarities either in appearance or character, and no alarm bell in his past; Yet, can't seem to "meet" girls.

Truth is, that if you ask the girls around they'll say, "oh yeah, I know who you mean. Seems fine" and then they'll quickly add "but he's not my type"

If you press a little bit more, you'll find that; "No, I don't want to meet him and be, like, nice to him.. you know what guys are like.. he might just get the wrong idea".

And so it remains for Johnny that every time he makes a move, even to strike up a casual conversation, they run a mile.

So there he is, no girls, no girl contacts, no girls to talk to, so where exactly are all these girls whose advice he should ignore, given that he's not going to be talking to them to get it anyway?

Apart from that, the whole PAU thing has an element of natural appeal as it seems to be about rules, and codes, and stealth and tricks and the power of secret know-how and all that stuff has such an enormous appeal for Johnnies. (and even Jeanettes)

Nice post , I do think that there is underlying misogyny in the PUA thing because basically a lot of these guys have loser attitudes and the only way to get them out of this conditioning is to build their self image so that they believe they are superior to girls and also I think personally that anyone who gets good with women after going to bootcamps or reading materials was going to anyway.Its a bit like the cowardly lion in the wizard of oz .

A quiet one · 07-01-2010 8:15pm

BumbleB wrote: »

Nice post , I do think that there is underlying misogyny in the PUA thing because basically a lot of these guys have loser attitudes

I think the misogyny is but a side effect of the commercial drive; I don't see the guys who want to look into it are misogynistic and I'll gamble on that on account of the probability that they don't have enough contact with girls, or maturity to have managed to arrive at any real conclusions about girls.
It offers certain sure fire structures; being seduced by that is not in itself misogynistic; that requires lots of practice.

LegacyUser · 08-01-2010 9:31pm

decent article and some good insight but it applies to a type of woman rather than women in general

Why female dating advice is terrible.

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