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Is it healthy for the public to idolise their politicians?

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  • 12-04-2012 2:55am
    #1
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭


    I’m closely following the run up to the 2012 US presidential election and I can’t help but think back to the 2008 election. I remember feeling bemused at the circus surrounding Barack Obama: young, naïve, and impressionable college students queuing up to shake his hand; the bombardment of slogans and catchphrases from his marketing team; grown adults crying at the announcement of his eventual victory. It’s like the public put him up on a pedestal and bestowed a celebrity like status upon him. They worshipped him.

    Bizarrely even Irish people were openly showing their support for a foreign president on Facebook, internet message boards, bumper stickers on cars, t-shirts with Obama’s image etc. And I’m sure many sheep will make posts here laced with ad hominems directed at me for daring to point out that Obama is not a God. Even our own RTE showered him with praise, unashamedly displaying their bias. The United States is supposedly a Republic where everyone is equal. What makes one man more special than the rest?

    It is true that many of those who idolise or hero-worship political leaders are party members or followers of the politicians. They hang around their party bosses because they have personal interests to protect – their jobs. But I can’t understand why the average Joe Soap reveres politicians. Do you really think Obama gives two shìts about you?

    The truth is, politicians hold the ordinary man with contempt. Hence why they promise the sun, moon and stars to get your vote at election time but then fob you off with broken promises when elected. They are only interested in obtaining a first class seat on the gravy train. Votes are only a means to an end. The arrogance of Obama was recently revealed during an open mic gaffe with Russian president Dmitry Medvedev when he was overheard telling Mr Medvedev that he could be more flexible in negotiations on the issue of missile defence once he is re-elected in November. Link Very presumptive, wouldn’t you agree? Let’s not forget that this is the man who tripled the US national debt. Ouch.

    Thankfully Ireland has a healthy distrust of our own politicians. Our leaders are regularly lampooned in the print media and on comedy shows. The infamous painting of a nude Brian Cowen on the toilet springs to mind, which sadly RTE had to issue an apology for broadcasting. Which makes it even more of a mystery why they worship the American president? George W. Bush was regularly portrayed as an ape with Tony Blair as his poodle. We all laughed – it perfectly conveyed the widely held belief that Blair blindly followed Bush’s policies like a lapdog in order to keep his master happy. However, one can only wonder the uproar that would follow if Obama was portrayed as an ape. The libtards would have a field day crying “wascist” on the Joe Duffy show. It’s as if the celebrity president is untouchable.

    I’m only using Obama as an obvious example but there are those who won’t hear a bad word about Ming Flanagan either and who believe he is Ireland’s savior who will deliver us into weed heaven. Do you think it is healthy for the public to worship their politicians?
    Tagged:


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    #2
    Border-Rat
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 921 ✭✭✭Border-Rat


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    I’m closely following the run up to the 2012 US presidential election and I can’t help but think back to the 2008 election. I remember feeling bemused at the circus surrounding Barack Obama: young, naïve, and impressionable college students queuing up to shake his hand; the bombardment of slogans and catchphrases from his marketing team; grown adults crying at the announcement of his eventual victory. It’s like the public put him up on a pedestal and bestowed a celebrity like status upon him. They worshipped him.

    Bizarrely even Irish people were openly showing their support for a foreign president on Facebook, internet message boards, bumper stickers on cars, t-shirts with Obama’s image etc. And I’m sure many sheep will make posts here laced with ad hominems directed at me for daring to point out that Obama is not a God. Even our own RTE showered him with praise, unashamedly displaying their bias. The United States is supposedly a Republic where everyone is equal. What makes one man more special than the rest?

    It is true that many of those who idolise or hero-worship political leaders are party members or followers of the politicians. They hang around their party bosses because they have personal interests to protect – their jobs. But I can’t understand why the average Joe Soap reveres politicians. Do you really think Obama gives two shìts about you?

    The truth is, politicians hold the ordinary man with contempt. Hence why they promise the sun, moon and stars to get your vote at election time but then fob you off with broken promises when elected. They are only interested in obtaining a first class seat on the gravy train. Votes are only a means to an end. The arrogance of Obama was recently revealed during an open mic gaffe with Russian president Dmitry Medvedev when he was overheard telling Mr Medvedev that he could be more flexible in negotiations on the issue of missile defence once he is re-elected in November. Link Very presumptive, wouldn’t you agree? Let’s not forget that this is the man who tripled the US national debt. Ouch.

    Thankfully Ireland has a healthy distrust of our own politicians. Our leaders are regularly lampooned in the print media and on comedy shows. The infamous painting of a nude Brian Cowen on the toilet springs to mind, which sadly RTE had to issue an apology for broadcasting. Which makes it even more of a mystery why they worship the American president? George W. Bush was regularly portrayed as an ape with Tony Blair as his poodle. We all laughed – it perfectly conveyed the widely held belief that Blair blindly followed Bush’s policies like a lapdog in order to keep his master happy. However, one can only wonder the uproar that would follow if Obama was portrayed as an ape. The libtards would have a field day crying “wascist” on the Joe Duffy show. It’s as if the celebrity president is untouchable.

    I’m only using Obama as an obvious example but there are those who won’t hear a bad word about Ming Flanagan either and who believe he is Ireland’s savior who will deliver us into weed heaven. Do you think it is healthy for the public to worship their politicians?

    All of this applies to the centre-right as well, just sayin'.


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    #3
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    thinly veiled attack on the not right wing post. good going. I'd of struggled to tell your political allegiances by your screen name.


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    #4
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    Can you please leave your ideological baggage at the door and join in an objective discussion? The phenomenon of voters mindlessly idolising their politicians is not exclusive to either the left or right. We all witnessed the scenes at the last Fianna Fail Ard Fheis where middle aged men were tripping over themselves to shake hands with the disgraced Bertie Ahern or get a photo with him. This worshiping of our leaders is what happens in North Korea and is dangerous for a supposed Republic. Why should one man be put up on a pedestal? Who decided he is better or more important than you or me? I laughed at all the fools who turned up to College Green last year in the rain to listen to Obama spew his soundbites (which he doesn't write himself). He is just a man.


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    #5
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Can you please leave your ideological baggage at the door and join in an objective discussion? The phenomenon of voters mindlessly idolising their politicians is not exclusive to either the left or right. We all witnessed the scenes at the last Fianna Fail Ard Fheis where middle aged men were tripping over themselves to shake hands with the disgraced Bertie Ahern or get a photo with him. This worshiping of our leaders is what happens in North Korea and is dangerous for a supposed Republic. Why should one man be put up on a pedestal? Who decided he is better or more important than you or me? I laughed at all the fools who turned up to College Green last year in the rain to listen to Obama spew his soundbites (which he doesn't write himself). He is just a man.

    You used the word libtards in your OP.


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    #6
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    RichieC wrote: »
    You used the word libtards in your OP.

    Libtards refers to liberals who act like retards. It doesn't label all liberals.

    A recent post of yours refers to American women as "conservochristards". What a big man you are. Link to post Also it's "they're", not their


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    #7
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Libtards refers to liberals who act like retards. It doesn't label all liberals.

    A recent post of yours refers to American women as "conservochristards". What a big man you are. Link to post Also it's "they're", not their

    Yes, not in the politics forum and not while demanding stuff remains non-partisan.

    Thanks for the grammar help, though, unfortunately it's to long after the fact to edit it. Perhaps I'll write a letter to a mod to allow me special permission to fix such an egregious error.


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    #8
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    Your basic grammatical errors just shows a lack of education, to be honest. No need for the sarcastic reply. Swallow your pride and learn from the mistake.

    I don't get a kick out of disrespecting women either, but whatever floats your boat. I'm ready to debate with you whenever you're prepared to challenge my points. Were you one of the sheep that turned up to worship Obama on college Green last year?


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    #9
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    Dear me. Right, 24 hour ban for SMASH THE UNIONS for fighting, name-calling, and general pettiness. There's some promise in the OP - to the extent that it's not just an attack on Obama - but there appears to be a problem with the OP accepting any criticism.

    Which is ironic, of course.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #10
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,684 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    The hype surrounding Barack pre president was almost as much as the hype surrounding Biffo before he became taoiseach. Ridiculous. I mean, what had Biffo done to deserve this adulation?

    Barcak? The novelty affect. Plain and simple. Mosy folks just latched onto the hype; knew very little about him. It became cool and fashionable to endorse him. People who never ever got into politics suddenly were experts when it came to Barack. Ludicrous. And of course the celebrities were out in forces. Some of the dumbest ones were all political and pro Barack. Twats!


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    #11
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    walshb wrote: »
    The hype surrounding Barack pre president was almost as much as the hype surrounding Biffo before he became taoiseach. Ridiculous. I mean, what had Biffo done to deserve this adulation?

    Barcak? The novelty affect. Plain and simple. Mosy folks just latched onto the hype; knew very little about him. It became cool and fashionable to endorse him. People who never ever got into politics suddenly were experts when it came to Barack. Ludicrous. And of course the celebrities were out in forces. Some of the dumbest ones were all political and pro Barack. Twats!

    The same applies to all running candidates in the presidential race. They all get celebrity endorsements. It just so happens that Obama got endorsed by celebrities who were actually cool, unlike the Republican ones who usually get Chuck Norris and Ted Nugent. Plus he has a face for TV which is generally not the way with the Republicans old white man routine.

    Sarah Palin garnered the same response, albeit with a smaller more fringe group. She has a TV face.

    I agree it's a rather vapid system but trying to make it out so it's some liberal conspiracy is ridiculous.

    None of this takes anything away from the job Obama's done, or his qualifications. Only the extreme right would try and say he's been a disaster for America. He will likely win the centre and the race in November.

    There's nothing remotely close in Ireland or England.


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    #12
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    Hardly a danger unless it became some sort of personality cult.

    There is nothing new or "American" about projecting your own hopes and opinions on a politician. The vast majority of the time its harmless, and can often have a positive effect on society, animating people about poltics, getting people to vote who normally dont and spreading a positive attiude throughout a state.

    Can you think of a time in a modern democracy it has been actually empirically unhealthy? Note its not enough that the politican that the public are excited by is of a different political persuasion?


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    #13
    cianisgood
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭cianisgood


    no


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    #14
    View
    Registered Users Posts: 3,872 ✭✭✭View


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    The truth is, politicians hold the ordinary man with contempt.

    A questionable assumption - there are presumably a variety of views amongst politicians on their electorate just as there are amongst the electorate on their politicians.


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    #15
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    View wrote: »
    A questionable assumption - there are presumably a variety of views amongst politicians on their electorate just as there are amongst the electorate on their politicians.

    You may remember an incident from the last British general election where Gordon Brown was overheard calling an elderly lady "a bigoted old woman" after a brief conversation with her for the cameras. The gaffe was recorded on a live mic left on his jacket after he was chauffeured away in his limousine. It provided a valuable insight into how politicians really view the electorate. Brown was a dour old socialist and a deeply unpopular Prime Minister, especially after the charismatic Tony Blair.

    Politicians always look awkward when they descend from their ivory towers once every four years to mingle with the great unwashed to campaign for votes. We are merely a means to an end. I've already mentioned Obama's recent live mic gaffe with the Russians which showed us his arrogance and true intentions after he is re-elected. We are their ticket for the gravy train. It's extremely naive to believe otherwise.


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    #16
    RussellTuring
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    You may remember an incident from the last British general election where Gordon Brown was overheard calling an elderly lady "a bigoted old woman" after a brief conversation with her for the cameras. The gaffe was recorded on a live mic left on his jacket after he was chauffeured away in his limousine. It provided a valuable insight into how politicians really view the electorate. Brown was a dour old socialist and a deeply unpopular Prime Minister, especially after the charismatic Tony Blair.

    Politicians always look awkward when they descend from their ivory towers once every four years to mingle with the great unwashed to campaign for votes. We are merely a means to an end. I've already mentioned Obama's recent live mic gaffe with the Russians which showed us his arrogance and true intentions after he is re-elected. We are their ticket for the gravy train. It's extremely naive to believe otherwise.

    I believe a large number of politicians don't care about the electorate but on a purely logical point, finding examples of particular politicians being rude or condescending does not prove the case for all politicians.

    To answer the thread title, no.


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    #17
    steelcityblues
    Registered Users Posts: 4,630 ✭✭✭steelcityblues


    Good post from the OP, but there is also the element of projection by ordinary people onto politicians.

    Obama in 2008 is a great example. Many people wanted him to be all of these things, without really analytically looking at his background, and how he got to where he got to in such a quick amount of time. People thought he had some magic wand to rapidly change America overnight, which was cringeworthy to witness.

    So, in a way I don't blame Obama himself for a lot of these people losing the run of themselves. Some have woken up since 08, some have not. He is after all just another 'yes man', so it is a bigger problem than just him.

    Also, I disagree that the Irish are immune to this. Bertie presented himself as 'one of the lads', who liked his sport and pints just like Joe Soap. He played those voters like a violin.


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    #18
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,671 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Obama, leaving aside my normal cynical conservative POV, back in 2008 came across as articulate - not by the standards of the soundbites of current politicians, but more in the tone and content of orators for an older age of discourse. One that at least paid a measure of homage to debating the issues and not focusing on attack ad style campaigning.


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    #19
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    Manach wrote: »
    Obama, leaving aside my normal cynical conservative POV, back in 2008 came across as articulate - not by the standards of the soundbites of current politicians, but more in the tone and content of orators for an older age of discourse. One that at least paid a measure of homage to debating the issues and not focusing on attack ad style campaigning.

    You're kidding, right? Obama is infamous as the soundbite king. He was embarrassed recently when the media pointed out how he repeatedly claims every small country is America's "closest ally" and "punches above his weight". It's bad enough that he doesn't write his own speeches, but are his speechwriters so lazy that they recycle the exact same spiel at every bilateral meeting? source

    As for Obama the great orator myth - this is the guy who goofed up his Presidential inauguration speech. source He stumbled on his very first speech as President!! You couldn't make this up. It's hard to be inspired by him when you know every word out of his mouth is a lie.
    "Guantanamo detention center will be closed within a year".
    "I'll cut the deficit in half by end of first year."
    "As President I'll recognize the Armenian genocide".
    "I'm not somebody who proposes same-sex marriage".
    "No more wiretapping of citizens".

    I could go on. I didn't want this thread to be solely about Obama but he so perfectly demonstrates the sleeveen politician who just can't be trusted and uses voters as a pay packet. And brain-dead naval gazers revere him like a God??


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    #20
    guitarzero
    Registered Users Posts: 1,425 ✭✭✭guitarzero


    Politics is pretty much the classroom on the other side of the walls. There have always been teachers pets, kids who look up to the teacher, kids who have nothing but respect for authority, regardless of how harsh. These kids do what they're told, adopt and sync with whatever culture they are in with complete adherence. They're never exceptional, can be of any intellect. Because they suck, they want to feel aligned with something far greater than they are.

    So the best thing they can become is a minion.


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    #21
    john reilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭john reilly


    what about maggie thatcher. bet you loved her


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    #22
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    john reilly wrote: »
    what about maggie thatcher. bet you loved her

    Despite my attempts to not make this a partisan debate, the lefties deliberately get all defensive and begin their whataboutery tactics.

    I may agree with some of Margaret Thatcher's policies, especially her hardline stance regarding IRA terrorism and her refusal to allow the unions to bully the rest of the country, but I'm not going to queue for her autograph; or spend my hard earned cash on buying her book; or put posters of her up on my wall; or spend my free time campaigning for her; or bore my friends with stories about her wonderful she is down the pub. I'm sure there are brain washed fanatics who do/did those things for Thatcher and that's what I don't understand. Politicians are essentially your employees. They are not celebrities.


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    #23
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    john reilly wrote: »
    what about maggie thatcher. bet you loved her

    Despite my attempts to not make this a partisan debate, the lefties deliberately get all defensive and begin their whataboutery tactics.

    In fairness, if you choose a username such as "SMASH THE UNIONS", it's probably best if you don't accuse others of partisanship!

    To answer the OP, no it isn't healthy, but it seems to be human unfortunately.


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    #24
    john reilly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 409 ✭✭john reilly


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Despite my attempts to not make this a partisan debate, the lefties deliberately get all defensive and begin their whataboutery tactics.

    I may agree with some of Margaret Thatcher's policies, especially her hardline stance regarding IRA terrorism and her refusal to allow the unions to bully the rest of the country, but I'm not going to queue for her autograph; or spend my hard earned cash on buying her book; or put posters of her up on my wall; or spend my free time campaigning for her; or bore my friends with stories about her wonderful she is down the pub. I'm sure there are brain washed fanatics who do/did those things for Thatcher and that's what I don't understand. Politicians are essentially your employees. They are not celebrities.
    i have translated your post into normal everyday mans language.
    hardline stance regarding IRA = created an atmosphere were young men were queing up to join the IRA and paid young britsh men to go and kill other supposed britsh men, while getting themselves killed. she was responsible for thousands of deaths. in this country alone.
    allow the unions to bully = there was only room for one bully and that would be her (presumably overreacting to make up for the lack of testoterone) she left people jobless and homeless.


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    #25
    troposphere
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 174 ✭✭troposphere


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    Let’s not forget that this is the man who tripled the US national debt. Ouch.

    Total Public Debt

    Clinton sworn in: $4.2 trillion
    Bush sworn in: $5.7 trillion
    Obama sworn in: $10.6 trillion
    Today: $15.6 trillion


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    #26
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    troposphere wrote: »
    Total Public Debt

    Clinton sworn in: $4.2 trillion
    Bush sworn in: $5.7 trillion
    Obama sworn in: $10.6 trillion
    Today: $15.6 trillion

    Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant.


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    #27
    SMASH THE UNIONS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 210 ✭✭SMASH THE UNIONS


    john reilly wrote: »
    i have translated your post into normal everyday mans language....

    No need for translation. I meant exactly what I said. Unless by "normal everyday mans (sic) language" you meant adding terrible grammar and poor punctuation.
    RichieC wrote: »
    Never let the truth get in the way of a good rant

    You got a source for those figures?
    Feel like dealing with any of the points raised above regarding Obama lazily and shamelessly repeating the same speech with every political leader or the great orator myth?


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    #28
    liammur
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,461 ✭✭✭liammur


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    It is true that many of those who idolise or hero-worship political leaders are party members or followers of the politicians. They hang around their party bosses because they have personal interests to protect – their jobs. But I can’t understand why the average Joe Soap reveres politicians. Do you really think Obama gives two shìts about you?

    The truth is, politicians hold the ordinary man with contempt. Hence why they promise the sun, moon and stars to get your vote at election time but then fob you off with broken promises when elected. They are only interested in obtaining a first class seat on the gravy train. Votes are only a means to an end. The arrogance of Obama was recently revealed during an open mic gaffe with Russian president Dmitry Medvedev when he was overheard telling Mr Medvedev that he could be more flexible in negotiations on the issue of missile defence once he is re-elected in November. Link Very presumptive, wouldn’t you agree? Let’s not forget that this is the man who tripled the US national debt. Ouch.

    Thankfully Ireland has a healthy distrust of our own politicians. Our leaders are regularly lampooned in the print media and on comedy shows. The infamous painting of a nude Brian Cowen on the toilet springs to mind, which sadly RTE had to issue an apology for broadcasting. Which makes it even more of a mystery why they worship the American president? George W. Bush was regularly portrayed as an ape with Tony Blair as his poodle. We all laughed – it perfectly conveyed the widely held belief that Blair blindly followed Bush’s policies like a lapdog in order to keep his master happy. However, one can only wonder the uproar that would follow if Obama was portrayed as an ape. The libtards would have a field day crying “wascist” on the Joe Duffy show. It’s as if the celebrity president is untouchable.

    I’m only using Obama as an obvious example but there are those who won’t hear a bad word about Ming Flanagan either and who believe he is Ireland’s savior who will deliver us into weed heaven. Do you think it is healthy for the public to worship their politicians?

    Obama situation is interesting. America really wanted and America really needed a change after the disastrous Bush legacy. This is where a lot of the hype came from. As for 'Ireland having a healthy distrust of our politicians' , Bertie Ahern & Haughey et al would be chuckling away to themselves at that nugget.


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    #29
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »
    No need for translation. I meant exactly what I said. Unless by "normal everyday mans (sic) language" you meant adding terrible grammar and poor punctuation.



    You got a source for those figures?
    Feel like dealing with any of the points raised above regarding Obama lazily and shamelessly repeating the same speech with every political leader or the great orator myth?

    Let's see - you've been banned once already for incivility, and here you are again. One week ban this time. Next time a month, one after that permanent.

    moderately,
    Scofflaw


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    #30
    Icepick
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Icepick


    Even worse than idolising politicians is idolising ideas though.


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    #31
    RussellTuring
    Registered Users Posts: 866 ✭✭✭RussellTuring


    Benny_Cake wrote: »
    To answer the OP, no it isn't healthy, but it seems to be human unfortunately.

    I'm human and I don't idolise them.


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