Political Correctness - Preventing Prejudice or Stifling Free Speech?

brummytom · 16-10-2009 11:43pm #1

Question's in the title, people.

So some Irish prisoners have been getting offended by 'anti-Irish jokes' published in a prison magazine - is it harmless fun or racism?

My brother was telling me today, with a horrified voice, that his Art teacher called a lad in the class a "retard". She did, afterwards, apologise unreservedly, but even so, my brother still found it disgusting. Now just 20 years ago, comments like this would have been commonplace in schools, and an eyelid wouldn't have been batted. Now it would be a disciplinary offence.

I wouldn't have any problem with people taking a 'pop' at my nationality or religion, but among some groups it would cause outrage.
So have we (I realise I'm not in the same country as most of you, so I'll extend the question to Western society in general) progressed as a society, and come some way to eradicating mindless prejudice; or are people just too sensitive about what is said?

TheTubes · 16-10-2009 11:49pm

The other day you wouldn't do your geography homework,
now you want us to do your sociology homework?

brummytom · 16-10-2009 11:51pm

TheTubes wrote: »

The other day you wouldn't do your geography homework,
now you want us to do your sociology homework?

I don't do sociology

I'm just bored... I'm even proud of the title, that's how bored I am.

Though in hindsight maybe posting this on a Friday night was stupid

My name is URL · 16-10-2009 11:54pm

Political correctness is a tool to keep you in line with the politics that rule your life big black Jewish lesbian

edit/- a big black Jewish lesbian with no sense of humor

asdasd · 16-10-2009 11:57pm

yeah. down with free speech. A bourgeois concept ignoring the realities of social constructs.

Up, instead. with banning stuff I don't like.

16-10-2009 11:58pm

Political correctness is being made to vote repeatedly until you vote the correct way!

asdasd · 16-10-2009 11:58pm

like The One Show.

EDIT:

s'example of stuff i dont like. Ban that!

EDIT 2:

cept the norn iron girl is hot,

EDT%IL

whatevah

Earthhorse · 16-10-2009 11:59pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IYx4Bc6_eE

brummytom · 16-10-2009 11:59pm

Adrian Chiles looks like a Bulldog

asdasd · 17-10-2009 12:02am

Mary Harney!!!

asdasd · 17-10-2009 12:03am

Stuart lee the most boring wanker on earth...

LadyJ · 17-10-2009 12:03am

Speech is free but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of what they say. There will always be people who take offence to what you say so the main thing is to learn to be "appropriate" and know your audience. People are also free to feel however they want to about what you say.

Tbh, it is highly inappropriate for a teacher to speak to a pupil like that, even if it was a joke. It's just unprofessional. There's line between friendship and being someone's teacher. In any profession like that there is a certain amount of blurring of lines but know the limits.

asdasd · 17-10-2009 12:05am

Adrian Chiles looks like a Bulldog

He does. A nice friendly bulldog with the hots for norn iron women.

KnifeWRENCH · 17-10-2009 12:05am

brummytom wrote: »

Though in hindsight maybe posting this on a Friday night was stupid

That depends on whether or not you want answers along the lines of:
"Political correctness is GHEEEEEEEEEEEY. I'm pretending to be drunk so I'm typing innncoherererently. Generic MAry HArney comment." Though if you wanted an overly serious answer, I doubt you would have picked this forum!

To say something vaguely on topic, I have no issue with hearing the word "retard" but teachers shouldn't insult their students, no matter what term of abuse they use. Maybe the guy was quite stupid but she should have known better than to insult him in front of his class. I don't think that's being too politically correct, I just think teachers insulting students is inappropriate.

brummytom · 17-10-2009 12:06am

He gives our accent great publicity though

Oh FFS, how have I dragged my own thread off topic within 14 posts?!

asdasd · 17-10-2009 12:07am

"Political correctness is GHEEEEEEEEEEEY. I'm pretending to be drunk so I'm typing innncoherererently. Generic MAry HArney comment." Though

Mary harnry``````````!!!

shes fat

Earthhorse · 17-10-2009 12:08am

asdasd wrote: »

Stuart lee the most boring wanker on earth...

Excellent rebuttal.

asdasd · 17-10-2009 12:09am

He gives our accent great publicity though

thats cos he's the worlds happiest and horniest brummy.

brummytom · 17-10-2009 12:11am

asdasd wrote: »

thats cos he's the worlds happiest and horniest brummy.

Erm... HELLOO?!!

Super-Rush · 17-10-2009 12:11am

Political correctness is just spastic talk for gheys

ejmaztec · 17-10-2009 12:13am

There should be a National Non-Politically Correct day, when we can all let rip. If it proves popular, we should make it permanent, to bring excitement and misery in equal proportions to our dull boring lives.

aDeener · 17-10-2009 12:32am

brummytom wrote: »

Question's in the title, people.

So some Irish prisoners have been getting offended by 'anti-Irish jokes' published in a prison magazine - is it harmless fun or racism?

My brother was telling me today, with a horrified voice, that his Art teacher called a lad in the class a "retard". She did, afterwards, apologise unreservedly, but even so, my brother still found it disgusting. Now just 20 years ago, comments like this would have been commonplace in schools, and an eyelid wouldn't have been batted. Now it would be a disciplinary offence.

I wouldn't have any problem with people taking a 'pop' at my nationality or religion, but among some groups it would cause outrage.
So have we (I realise I'm not in the same country as most of you, so I'll extend the question to Western society in general) progressed as a society, and come some way to eradicating mindless prejudice; or are people just too sensitive about what is said?

well is said lad a retard? if so, nothing to be disgusted about

brummytom · 17-10-2009 12:35am

aDeener wrote: »

well is said lad a retard? if so, nothing to be disgusted about

Not a proper retard... we had one shit himself yesterday, I think this lad in my brothers class is just a bit of a fuckwit

aDeener · 17-10-2009 12:36am

brummytom wrote: »

Not a proper retard... we had one shit himself yesterday, I think this lad in my brothers class is just a bit of a fuckwit

thats not on so

IvySlayer · 17-10-2009 12:37am

PC crowd are ruining TV.

Ruining everything.

Have a sense of humour and stop being so offended over nothing.

brummytom · 17-10-2009 12:38am

aDeener wrote: »

thats not on so

What's not?

aDeener · 17-10-2009 12:42am

brummytom wrote: »

What's not?

the teacher calling the student a retard when he's not

ShooterSF · 17-10-2009 12:43am

If some people could just stop saying "That's not funny" and replace it with "I don't find that funny" we'd make great progress.

brummytom · 17-10-2009 12:57am

aDeener wrote: »

the teacher calling the student a retard when he's not

Oh right, yeah you're right. Sorry thought that comment was aimed at me for a minute.

Can I mention one bit of political correctness? People are going to hate me for this.. but.
Basically, Birmingham is now 20% Asian; with some areas 90%. This might not, on face value, seem like a bad thing; but it has led to our pathetic council erring on the side of caution for everything. Asian families are not challenged when they break regulations - this isn't a myth, this is a commonly known fact around here. They will build without permission; they've built a mini-mosque in the back garden next to my cousins house for **** sake!

Now that sounds like National Front racist bullshit, but that's not what I mean. Because the council are too afraid to stand up to minorities for fear of being racist, it's white people who lose out.

That's why I'm against political correctness. Again, I'm not a racist; but I don't condone pussy-footing around people just as not to offend them.

17-10-2009 12:59am

ShooterSF wrote: »

If some people could just stop saying "That's not funny" and replace it with "I don't find that funny" we'd make great progress.

So true, sadly they will be drowned out by the "that's not funny" crowd.

Some people need to know the difference between telling a joke and being racist.

tallaght01 · 17-10-2009 1:48am

In my experience, the only people who complain about "political correctness" are the people who think we all want to hear them "telling it like it is" about various races/ethnic groups of people.

If more than one or two people think what you're saying is inappropriate (and you're not at a church meeting) then you should think about what you're saying a bit more.

starbelgrade · 17-10-2009 2:28am

brummytom wrote: »

My brother was telling me today, with a horrified voice, that his Art teacher called a lad in the class a "retard". She did, afterwards, apologise unreservedly, but even so, my brother still found it disgusting. Now just 20 years ago, comments like this would have been commonplace in schools, and an eyelid wouldn't have been batted. Now it would be a disciplinary offence.

Just over 20 years ago teachers could inflict corporal punishment on students - anything from a whack on the back of the head, to a real beating, depending on the teacher.

Calling a child a "retard" may be less horrific, but it still doesn't make it right. This has nothing to do with political correctness. It's plain & simple abuse.

Havermeyer · 17-10-2009 2:33am

brummytom wrote: »

Question's in the title, people.

So some Irish prisoners have been getting offended by 'anti-Irish jokes' published in a prison magazine - is it harmless fun or racism?

My brother was telling me today, with a horrified voice, that his Art teacher called a lad in the class a "retard". She did, afterwards, apologise unreservedly, but even so, my brother still found it disgusting. Now just 20 years ago, comments like this would have been commonplace in schools, and an eyelid wouldn't have been batted. Now it would be a disciplinary offence.

I wouldn't have any problem with people taking a 'pop' at my nationality or religion, but among some groups it would cause outrage.
So have we (I realise I'm not in the same country as most of you, so I'll extend the question to Western society in general) progressed as a society, and come some way to eradicating mindless prejudice; or are people just too sensitive about what is said?

In fairness, I think the majority know the answer to this one.

K-9 · 17-10-2009 2:34am

Look, Political Correctness is not ruining TV. Just look at the retards on TV.

Mary Whitehouse was the old anti PC Brigade. It has just been updated.

randylonghorn · 17-10-2009 2:45am

Deleted User wrote: »

Some people need to know the difference between telling a joke and being racist.

True ... and the same goes for homophobic / misogynistic / etc.

It's all about context and intent. Unfortunately, it can sometimes be difficult enough to judge intent, especially on a medium like the internet.

One of my oldest friends is "bi, leaning towards gay" (his definition, not mine). I don't give a toss, tbh. I've never believed that who one jumps into bed with (assuming they're of age and willing) defines in any way whether you are a decent person or not.

That doesn't stop me slagging the hole off him though (that's an "L", folks :P) and believe me he gives as good as he gets, and we enjoy our fencing matches enormously.

I've been pulled up for it on a couple of occasions in the pub by bystanders (eavesdroppers, really) who knew neither of us and had nothing to do with us, much to both his and my amusement.

Now THAT'S political correctness gone mad!

tallaght01 wrote: »

In my experience, the only people who complain about "political correctness" are the people who think we all want to hear them "telling it like it is" about various races/ethnic groups of people.

There's a lot of truth in that, tallaght, but on the other hand there are a small minority out there who seem to have adopted political correctness as a religion, and taken it to an extreme that does way more harm than good.

Unfortunately, they often don't really have the ability or intelligence to differentiate between what really needs to be tackled, and what is truly irrelevant; they're just on the bandwagon ... remember the borough council in London a few years back that wanted manholes re-named as "personholes", for example?

The ultra-PCers like that really do a lot of damage to those who are genuinely and intelligently trying to combat attitutes of intolerance and, unfortunately, even at times hatred in society, imho.

tallaght01 · 17-10-2009 2:56am

randylonghorn wrote: »

There's a lot of truth in that, tallaght, but on the other hand there are a small minority out there who seem to have adopted political correctness as a religion, and taken it to an extreme that does way more harm than good.

Unfortunately, they often don't really have the ability or intelligence to differentiate between what really needs to be tackled, and what is truly irrelevant; they're just on the bandwagon ... remember the borough council in London a few years back that wanted manholes re-named as "personholes", for example?

The ultra-PCers like that really do a lot of damage to those who are genuinely and intelligently trying to combat attitutes of intolerance and, unfortunately, even at times hatred in society, imho.

There's mentalists on both sides. But that shouldn't cloud what we're doing. Go onto stormfront, or look at the BNP, then go into the ladies lounge to witness some of the righteous indignation, or look at male only golf clubs etc. Nutters are nutters.

But the reality is there has never been more opportunity for people of every race and sex than there is now. So, I think a few headbangers is a small price to pay.

I would have a pretty crude sense of humour, and so would most of my friends. To the extent that I made a KKK outfit for my friend as his xmas present a year or 2 ago, which he wore all night with glee. I think, with friends, anything goes.

But there are so many horrible attitudes out there. You just need to read this forum to see that. I think, as a society, we're doing the right thing by making those views unacceptable.

I would have to say I've never once felt stifled from "The PC Brigade", whoever they are.

starbelgrade · 17-10-2009 3:04am

randylonghorn wrote: »

remember the borough council in London a few years back that wanted manholes re-named as "personholes", for example?

Yep - but who's gonna go down & clean them out?!!!

thebman · 17-10-2009 3:11am

Its easy to tell if something is intended to be racist. Ask the person if they are joking. A racist will say no or lie badly as they will be so outraged that you tried to question them.

Also their eyes will be too close together :P

orourkeda · 17-10-2009 3:13am

There's very little middle ground. People either get offended by the slightest little thing or are doing a Tommy Tiernan.

orourkeda · 17-10-2009 3:14am

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yep - but who's gonna go down & clean them out?!!!

a member of an ethnic minority most probably

starbelgrade · 17-10-2009 3:18am

orourkeda wrote: »

a member of an ethnic minority most probably

Ethnic minority holes is a bit long winded.

orourkeda · 17-10-2009 3:24am

starbelgrade wrote: »

Ethnic minority holes is a bit long winded.

Thats the PC term for a blackhole

starbelgrade · 17-10-2009 3:25am

orourkeda wrote: »

Thats the PC term for a blackhole

:eek::D:D:D

sparky360 · 17-10-2009 3:29am

randylonghorn wrote: »

T
It's all about context and intent. Unfortunately, it can sometimes be difficult enough to judge intent, especially on a medium like the internet.

One of my oldest friends is "bi, leaning towards gay" ........

and believe me he gives as good as he gets, and we enjoy our fencing matches enormously.

.

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

Cianos · 17-10-2009 3:31am

Derogatory terms and offensive reference are known as such because that is their origin. And because they were (originally) derogatory and offensive, they can be used in a humorous way. ie, if 'n**ger' wasn't derogatory, it'd have no impact by being used in a humorous way. Thus the basis of PC aversion is the fact that the content of offensiveness is usually originated from terminology that is, independent of context, definitely derogatory. So it becomes an issue of interpretation. If I use the word 'n**ger' and honestly mean no harm or aggression with it, there will be listeners who take offense because they don't understand the context within which it's being used. (ie bystanders or people who simply don't catch the references or just don't get the joke)

ie, you take an offensive word, such as n**ger. You intend to use it in a humorous way. People who 'get' the joke will find it funny and will understand that there's no racial prejudice intended. But those that don't find the joke funny, because they don't 'get' it, will be offended simply because of the use of the word n**ger in a context which they haven't had the privilege of appreciating.

randylonghorn · 17-10-2009 3:34am

tallaght01 wrote: »

There's mentalists on both sides.

You just need to read this forum to see that.

Oh, believe me, I've often walked out of here (figuratively speaking) before I lost my head and got kicked out, I have no tolerance for bigotry or intolerance ... and when it comes to the extremes, given a choice between the ultra-PCers and Strmfrnt, no freaking contest! >.<

tallaght01 wrote: »

I would have to say I've never once felt stifled from "The PC Brigade", whoever they are.

Oh, me neither ... but then, no more than yourself, I'm tough to stifle.

Working in the youth / community / education field, though, I've seen some fanatical people oversell an overblown message which they don't really understand themselves, or apply any modicum of critical thinking to ...

The result is usually that their "message" is mocked and rejected by the young people they are dealing with, leaving them wide open to the extremists on the other side ... who sometimes, unfortunately, include their parents or other members of their family! Such a wasted opportunity.

Unfortunately, the lunatic fringe of any cause tends to be a drag on that cause, rather than the leaders and warriors they see themselves as, and tend to give plenty of ammunition to their detractors to boot.

Give me people with a bit of cop-on by my side any day.

randylonghorn · 17-10-2009 3:39am

starbelgrade wrote: »

Yep - but who's gonna go down & clean them out?!!!

My mother's comment was priceless. When she heard that story on the tv, she rolled her eyes to heaven and said "Why shouldn't they be called manholes? Sure no woman would be stupid enough to want to go down them anyway!"

sparky360 wrote: »

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice

Well, I gave ye plenty of pun material, slow enough ye were, tbh.

Cianos wrote: »

.

There are a few words which it is very hard to use without sounding derogatory though, they just have too much history.

Cianos · 17-10-2009 3:55am

randylonghorn wrote: »

There are a few words which it is very hard to use without sounding derogatory though, they just have too much history.

My point is though that it always depends on context, and the usage in any case is by nature only possible by the fact that those words are originally offensive. So really the words are more so symbols of hatred rather than hatred itself.

randylonghorn · 17-10-2009 4:13am

Cianos wrote: »

My point is though that it always depends on context, and the usage in any case is by nature only possible by the fact that those words are originally offensive. So really the words are more so symbols of hatred rather than hatred itself.

I agree with you about the context / intent issue, see my own post above (#35).

I'm simply saying that there are a few words which have become so deeply intertwined with the hatred they symbolise (or once symbolised) that they are very hard to disassociate from it, and many people will react on an almost subconscious level to them, rather than stopping to consciously analyse the context in which they are used, or with what intent.

Dudess · 17-10-2009 11:59am

Depends on what's being defined as "politically correct" - a lot of people seem to have no idea what the term means, e.g. a number of people here seem to think objecting to kicking the sh1t out of a Roma gypsy is "political correctness".

And I find those who are fond of the phrase "political correctness GONE MAD!!" usually tend to be to the right of Genghis Khan.

That's not to say hypersensitivity doesn't exist either though - the word "black" offends some people (usually white) which is hilarious.

wudangclan · 17-10-2009 6:30pm

ShooterSF wrote: »

If some people could just stop saying "That's not funny" and replace it with "I don't find that funny" we'd make great progress.

that would be e-prime,which should be made compulsory IMO.

*even though i have transgressed twice in this post

and a bit more from RAW

http://nobeliefs.com/eprime.htm

Political Correctness - Preventing Prejudice or Stifling Free Speech?

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