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How to find out how much trouble the father's in?

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  • 09-03-2010 12:17pm
    #1
    worri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭


    Hi,

    I'm not sure how to go about posting this, it's essentially on my mother's behalf. Sorry if it's a bit long, but would really appreciate any advice you can give. Posted this over on Askaboutmoney as well.

    The father has got himself into quite a bit of trouble with Revenue, etc. Having sold his business in the mid-90s, he kept his job there, essentially running the place while the new owners siphoned off cash and basically embezzled the business to a standstill. I think my father knew about some of this at the time, but I'm not sure. Anyway, when he did find out (a couple of years back) he started to put his own money into the company, and encouraged two other employees to do the same.

    Fast forward to January last year, he and the other two left this company under a cloud and set up close by and in competition with the previous owners. It's doing alright - it's not the best climate for anyone, as we all know, and this industry is quite susceptible.

    Anyway, my father is in quite a bit of debt now, and this brings me to the issue - he won't talk about it, won't be drawn on it, and essentially has his head in the sand. This leaves my mother in a really difficult position - she has worked alongside him for so long, is much more organised than him, and would never have let him get involved in something like this.

    But the father's from a generation where the man handles the money, and he got a notion during the boom that it was going to keep on rocking forever. Now the fallout is (we think, we really don't know and can't know) none of the money is left - not the proceeds from the sale of the business, nor any other money that accrued over the years from land, wills, etc.

    So he's been mentioned in the Indo as having a substantial judgment against him, the mother received a letter addressed to her regarding loan commitments that she never took out, he's borrowed from my siblings and I, he asked me to give him chunks of money on an hours' notice to deposit into unusual accounts...but I've an awful fear that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

    His head is completely in the sand on this. He knows I know about it, but we haven't discussed it. It's hard on my mother to be in the same house as him, knowing he's lied to her and is holding facts from her, not to mention that she suspects he forged documents to get a loan in her name and God knows what else.

    Family's family, but it's important we get the facts down here. Has the house been re-mortgaged, did he forge docs for loans in anyone else's name, does he owe a huge amount of money...I know he's under a lot of stress, but his head is in the sand - he seems to be depressed, which is not a surprise.

    My question is, how do we find these things out? We've tried everything with this man, and my mother doesn't have the funds to get Gerard Keane or whoever on the case.

    Your opinions would really be appreciated.


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    #2
    blueythebear
    Registered Users Posts: 1,071 ✭✭✭blueythebear


    If there's a significant judgement against him and it's in the paper then it's most likely High Court. You can either google his name to find the article or go to the High Court Search option on www.courts.ie to see if the case is listed there where you should be able to access the judgement.

    The most obvious answer though is to sit him down and ask all of the questions you've just listed. Confront him with the article from the Indo. You don't say below if anyone's actually confronted him with all of this info?


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    #3
    Maximilian
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 5,400 Mod ✭✭✭✭Maximilian


    Your options are limited I'm afraid. Certain things such as judgements, mortgages, company directorships and the like are a matter of public record. Other private obligations, such as borrowings with banks, are not. You have no right or entitlement per se to access information.

    I come across situations like this every day - a lot of people are in severe financial difficulty. My advice is don't get involved; don't sign guarantees or consent to the mortgage of the family home, at least not without full and complete disclosure so you know what you are getting yourself into. Otherwise, your father may well drag you all down with him.

    In a lot of cases I've seen, people are agreeing to give banks anything just to keep the wolves at bay. As far as I can see, it's simply delaying the inevitable as a lot of these guys are now hopelessly insolvent and Banks are just trying to shore up their position before calling in the loans.

    You don't need a celebrity solicitor but I think you do need a solicitor, particularly if there's forged signatures etc. (that happens a lot more then you would think). That's the best advice your going to get here.


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    #4
    Cunsiderthis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 471 ✭✭Cunsiderthis


    I'd tend not to become involved unless specifically asked to by either my father or mother. If you do become involved, one possible outcome is that neither of them may thank you for it, and you risk souring relationships with on or both of them.

    To "confront " your father, as others have suggested, runs the risk of just making him feel more under pressure. What your father needs from your family, and what your mother also needs from your family, is support and understanding. If he has spent all their money on a failed business, then he doesn't really need someone close to him to tell him that he has been stupid, as he knows this already.


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    #5
    worri
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2 ✭worri


    Thanks for the replies. Cunsiderthis, to be honest I think the relationship is a bit beyond repair. The mother was told all down the line that the money was there, and even now, when we've checked judgments searched and that, he denies it, claims to "forget" about loans from me & siblings, and has basically stonewalled us.

    I suppose the solicitor is the only hope. blueythebear, thanks for the link. The mother has confronted him several times, he's just stonewalling her.

    Max, thanks also for the info. It's such a bad situation, it's kind of ruining the family closeness, and if the mother has to suffer unnecessarily over this I'd find it very hard to forgive the father. He's blown everything spectacularly, the courts and god knows what else are circling, and even now he's denying it all.

    Any further help or advice you can give, really appreciate it.


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    #6
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    afaik, you can access anyones credit record by paying a nominal fee €6, i think) to the irish credit bureau.

    it covers current debts on credit cards, bank loans, mortgages, and i think credit unions (though i stand to be correected on the credit union)

    up until a few years ago, i know you could definitely get someone elses credit records, and i never heard of this changing, so i presume you still can do so.


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    #7
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    sam34 wrote: »
    afaik, you can access anyones credit record by paying a nominal fee €6, i think) to the irish credit bureau.

    it covers current debts on credit cards, bank loans, mortgages, and i think credit unions (though i stand to be correected on the credit union)

    up until a few years ago, i know you could definitely get someone elses credit records, and i never heard of this changing, so i presume you still can do so.

    Do you mean you will get their credit rating? For example, joe blogs has a credit rating of 2c, or 4 (4 being pretty bad). How accurate is this information? You think this would be covered by the data protection act as this is extremely sensitive information. I am not too sure that happens sam. Obviously financial institutions would have access to this information, but I doubt anybody can check up on records. That would be nuts.


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    #8
    sam34
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    well, i know a couple of years ago a family member of mine was able to get my credit rating and details of all borrowings i had from banks in this country- long story as to why this was done, but it was done.

    i did not consent for this to be done, yet they got all the info, through official channels.

    i presume they would have needed to give my dob and address

    i enquired about the legalities of this at teh time and was told you can access anyones credit records

    this was in the early part of the last decade, so maybe data protection legislation has changed things in more recent years, but it was deffo legal 8 or 9 yrs ago


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