Drinking during pregnancy!

ntlbell · 30-06-2008 8:28pm

Quality wrote: »

I am not advocating drinking at all, I just dont like the comments ntlbell has made saying any amount of alcohol not matter how small is going to put your unborn child at a severe risk.

I am absolutely pro choice for women and hate scare mongering... Its a womans choice for what she puts in her body, and I do not believe that what Ntl has stated is 100% accurate, I think that the larger picture needs to be seen and then women can make an informed choice.

I didn't say any amount of alcohol puts the child at severe risk at all.

But there's a risk and like everything else you mentioned picking up your child walking up a flight of stairs etc all risk's but they're risks you generally have to take as you have to live your life.

no one NEEDS to have a drink so there for I think it's undue risk and can be avoided.

I'm not trying to scare monger at all and if my partner chose to drink while she was pregnant I wouldn't have dreamnt of trying to stop her the same way I'm not trying to stop you or scare you into not drinking.

I'm not "stating" anything I'm just pointing you to information what you choose to do with it is absloutley none of my buisness.

LolaDub · 30-06-2008 8:28pm

Jaffa i was referring to food causing baby damage. Theres additives even in babies food?

MagicMarker · 30-06-2008 8:33pm

Drinking 1 drink every few months throughout a pregnancy just seems pointless to me. You're getting absolutely nothing out of it and you KNOW that it isn't exactly ideal for the baby.

So really, what's the point?

Quality · 30-06-2008 8:35pm

ntlbell wrote: »

From doctor's? consultant's when my OH had our first?

But I would of thought it would be common sense....

although small amounts may not to be as a big an issue later on, I dont think their's a safe time to think it's 9 months this a human being.

the list of complications and learning difficulties etc that can be caused even from very small amounts is just not worth it

whats the point in having one beer?

you can wrap it up anyway you want the simple fact is it's safer to _not_ drink and i just wouldn't take that risk with my child for the sake of a drink

quoted

ntlbell · 30-06-2008 8:37pm

Quality wrote: »

quoted

yes?

Even small amounts amount to a risk.....

i thought we were past this...

Quality · 30-06-2008 8:37pm

HoneyButterfly wrote: »

And there is no reference there, could you give me one please? I'm not asking that in a patrionising way, I am actually interested in looking it up

<LI id=cite_note-49>^ Streissguth AP, et al. (1994). "Prenatal alcohol and offspring development: the first fourteen years". Drug and Alcohol Dependence, 36(2), 89-99. PMID 7851285 <LI id=cite_note-50>^ Wilkie, S. Global overview of drinking recommendations and guidelines. AIM Digest (Supplement), June, 1997, 2-4, p. 4 <LI id=cite_note-51>^ Abel, E. "Moderate" drinking during pregnancy: cause for concern? Clinica Chimica Acta, 1996, 246, 149-154 <LI id=cite_note-52>^ Forrest, F., and du Florey, C. Reported social alcohol consumption during pregnancy and infants' development at 18 months. British Medical Journal, 1991, 303, 22-26
[*]^ du Florey, D., et al. A European concerted action: maternal alcohol consumption and its relation to the outcome of pregnancy and development at 18 months. International Journal of Epidemiology, 1992, 21 (Supplement #1)
Happy browsing

Quality · 30-06-2008 8:45pm

Ok I posted this to see what other peoples opinions are. So why dont we lets see what other peoples opinions are, rather than hijacking the thread.

It is clear that I personally think that moderate drinking is ok.

And it is clear that you think that abstinence is the key.

Ludo · 01-07-2008 7:51am

Personally I don't see a probelm with a glass of wine every few weeks. My wife had 2 glasses during her pregnancy I think and I had no problem with it.

And it was not about the effect of alcohol. We were at a couple of parties and she wanted to feel like a "normal" person for half an hour and relax and not let everything be about being pregnant and the soon to arrive twins (don't flame me for saying normal..couldn't think of a proper word for it).
She was being very careful in every way throughout the pregnancy with food and what she was doing etc etc so I fully understood and had no problem with it as I said. We thought of it as a stress reliever which is needed.

I can understand people who abhor the idea but you must remember quality that pregnancy/child raising are very emotive topics. People tend to post things on here in a very dogmatic way sometimes and they come across as if they are saying my way or the highway. They generally don't mean it like this and are just trying to give advice from their own experience though. It is very hard to get correct tone into a typed message so it can easily end up in "differences of opinion" unnecessarily.

Not offering any scientific evidence to back up anything I say here...it is simply my opinion.

barbiegirl · 01-07-2008 10:09am

Ludo you speak sense :-)

faceman · 01-07-2008 10:16am

I used to share the view of zero tolerance to alcohol during pregnancy until recently. A number of credible studies have shown that limited alcohol intake has negligble risk although all studies say no alcohol should be consumed in the first 3 months. At the same time if I was a woman and pregnant I wouldn't drink at all

dodgyme · 01-07-2008 2:17pm

there are always the non or very low alcohol beers and wine now:D

leesmom · 01-07-2008 3:18pm

havent read the other replies as i have my lil man on my knee,but i think its very selfish to drink while you are pregnant.what difference is it going to make to you,to not drink for 9 months,its only 9months,hardly a lifetime.for me all i had to think about was my lil baby inside me,it certainly wouldnt have been relaxin for me to be thinkin of my baby getting alcohol put into his system when there was no need for it.its not like your goin to put flippin vodka or wine in ur babies bottle when he/she is born so why do it when they are inside u?

Black Swan · 01-07-2008 3:23pm

Drinking during pregnancy? Ever hear of FAS or FAE (fetal alcohol syndrome or fetal alcohol effects)? If preggers, I would not have a sip after reading the literature on what alcohol can do to the fetus!

Eyeofthetiger · 01-07-2008 10:29pm

Just wanted to add my 2 cents to this.
I only discovered I was pregnant very far into my pregnancy. Between becoming pregnant I had - a going away party, a 21st and general nights out where I would have been drinking. I'm not the world's biggest drinker or anything but I remember after finding out I was pregnant I was having panic attacks because I was afraid I had damaged my unborn child.
In the end she turned out perfect and still is to this day and I do wish I hadn't worried so much.
I really think it depends on the person and a small amount of alcohol within reason would have been ok for me too.

Loomis · 02-07-2008 8:29am

Quality wrote:

Do you think it is acceptable to drink in pregnancy?

Personally for me, A glass of wine (spritzer) at an occasion or the odd bottle of beer, I am not talking about every day, but from time to time a drink can be warranted.

I would not drink spirits.

What is everyone elses view on this?

Do you think it's fine to have the odd cigarette while pregnant?

Ludo · 02-07-2008 9:00am

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Do you think it's fine to have the odd cigarette while pregnant?

What has that got to do with the topic? May as well ask about heroin altogether.

Studies vary wildly from saying absolutely no alcohol to some doctors recommending a glass or two of red wine a week to help blood circulation.

Discuss it with your doctor.

Quackles · 02-07-2008 9:12am

I wouldn't drink or smoke when pregnant. I never smoked and drinking doesn't mean that much to me, I can stop any time

I did have 3 cans of cider before finding out I was pregnant, though :eek: I don't eat the foods they advise against eating, such as peanuts (first child had allergies, doing everything I can to prevent that again), unpasteurised cheese, shellfish, whipped ice cream, coffee, tea... But, that said, I do eat a load of rubbish. Mmm, banshee bones and kfc! And I haven't the energy to exercise.. None of us are doing everything by the book, all I can do is the best I can. If rubbishy food is all that sounds appetising for me (still only 11 weeks and appetite is crap), then I'll eat them til I feel better and hopefully adjust my diet then. On the plus side, chocolate is making me sick, so I've given that up too

luckat · 02-07-2008 9:16am

Can't understand why anyone would drink or smoke when they're pregnant. You're cooking up a new person, and you want to give them the best start you can.

Good food, light exercise, no intoxicants, good sleep, gentle and calm living, good music. Try a little Mozart.

By the way, it's really not a great idea to eat junk food when you're pregnant - look at this BBC piece: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6940852.stm

It's honestly just as easy to buy a good fillet steak and cook it with fresh vegetables and steamed spuds, and it's certainly as delicious. If you don't believe me, pm me and come over to my house and I'll cook you a meal.

Loomis · 02-07-2008 9:19am

Ludo wrote: »

What has that got to do with the topic? May as well ask about heroin altogether.

Studies vary wildly from saying absolutely no alcohol to some doctors recommending a glass or two of red wine a week to help blood circulation.

Discuss it with your doctor.

Cigarettes and alcohol are the most widely used legal drugs. Lots of other users have mentioned smoking in the thread in the same manner. Mentioning heroin is not much of a point.
Smoking and drinking while pregnant are both considered in the same thought. Both can affect the unborn child. Yet I can imagine a lot of people would say a drink here or there is ok before they would say it about a smoke. Which would be hypocritical but I can still see many people taking that view. Just asking again because I asked Quality on page 2 and got no response but she seemed to have a dig at someone a few posts back about not answering her questions.

Quality · 02-07-2008 6:20pm

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

Cigarettes and alcohol are the most widely used legal drugs. Lots of other users have mentioned smoking in the thread in the same manner. Mentioning heroin is not much of a point.
Smoking and drinking while pregnant are both considered in the same thought. Both can affect the unborn child. Yet I can imagine a lot of people would say a drink here or there is ok before they would say it about a smoke. Which would be hypocritical but I can still see many people taking that view. Just asking again because I asked Quality on page 2 and got no response but she seemed to have a dig at someone a few posts back about not answering her questions.

I was a smoker before, but have never smoked during pregnancy or breastfeeding. I dont plan on starting smoking again after this pregnancy.

My opinion is I personally would not smoke during pregnancy.

Quackles · 02-07-2008 8:43pm

luckat wrote: »

Can't understand why anyone would drink or smoke when they're pregnant. You're cooking up a new person, and you want to give them the best start you can.

Good food, light exercise, no intoxicants, good sleep, gentle and calm living, good music. Try a little Mozart.

By the way, it's really not a great idea to eat junk food when you're pregnant - look at this BBC piece: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6940852.stm

It's honestly just as easy to buy a good fillet steak and cook it with fresh vegetables and steamed spuds, and it's certainly as delicious. If you don't believe me, pm me and come over to my house and I'll cook you a meal.

Good sleep... very funny, you're quite the comedian

Ah my diet isn't that bad, I do cook most nights, but caving more than I should. I know it isn't the best, I will change it as I start to feel a bit better.

faceman · 03-07-2008 1:21pm

luckat wrote: »

It's honestly just as easy to buy a good fillet steak and cook it with fresh vegetables and steamed spuds, and it's certainly as delicious. If you don't believe me, pm me and come over to my house and I'll cook you a meal.

The whole thread is over to yours this weekend so!

Grawns · 05-07-2008 1:40pm

I stopped drinking and smoking immediately I found out. Smoking was easy but I do miss the odd glass of red wine. Have no intention of drinking during the pregnancy but that's cause I would just miss wine more if I had the odd glass ( after 12 weeks ). That being said I don't know anyone ( 6 friends and 2 sisters) who didn't have the odd drink while pregnant and their children are all perfect. Just another thing to beat women up about.

MagicMarker · 05-07-2008 5:39pm

Grawns wrote: »

I stopped drinking and smoking immediately I found out. Smoking was easy but I do miss the odd glass of red wine. Have no intention of drinking during the pregnancy but that's cause I would just miss wine more if I had the odd glass ( after 12 weeks ). That being said I don't know anyone ( 6 friends and 2 sisters) who didn't have the odd drink while pregnant and their children are all perfect. Just another thing to beat women up about.

So why did you stop then? If it's just another thing to beat women up about.

Grawns · 05-07-2008 6:21pm

I may yet have a drink :P

Nevyn · 06-07-2008 9:44pm

I had several glasses of guiness ( 1 to 2 per ocassion ) or a glass of wine once I hit my 3 trimester on my first and the same when I was having my second.

I personally considered the ocassional single glass less then once a week once the plencenta was well developed to be a risk I was happy to take.

It's well known that women in the last few weeks to get the goo on them and it can be what kick starts labour.

marti101 · 08-07-2008 9:50am

I had the odd drink but really i really went right off it.The best non alcoholic beer is becks,it tastes just like beer.The wine i wouldnt touch agau=in ,it was disgusting.I think smoking is worse cause you would tend to smoke more than drink.You could have 20 smokes but your not really going to hab=ve 20 cans.I think the worst thing is seeing pregnant women outside hospitals having a smoke you dont see them outside having a 2 litre of cider.I dont smoke never have and am bf so dont drink either

Loomis · 08-07-2008 11:05pm

Quality wrote: »

I was a smoker before, but have never smoked during pregnancy or breastfeeding. I dont plan on starting smoking again after this pregnancy.

My opinion is I personally would not smoke during pregnancy.

If you feel the odd drink won't do any harm then the odd smoke shouldn't either...

Hotblack Desiato · 08-07-2008 11:52pm

leesmom wrote: »

its not like your goin to put flippin vodka or wine in ur babies bottle when he/she is born so why do it when they are inside u?

Not vodka, but whiskey... happened to a lot of babies until not so long ago and didn't do them any harm. I'm not recommending it to anyone and wouldn't do it with my daughter, but it is easy to get OTT about everything these days. I wouldn't worry about the odd drink later in pregnancy, my wife stayed off it altogether for the first few months, after that she had one (and I mean ONE) glass of wine or small beer a week, did neither of them any harm at all.

This sort of debate is very reminiscent of drink-driving, there are people out there basically advocating that if you drank half a mouthful of shandy 3 days ago you shouldn't drive :rolleyes: Alcohol does not enhance either driving or pregnancy, but that doesn't mean that SMALL amounts do harm, especially when compared to all the other risks in life we don't know about or can't control. It is important to be happy and I don't want myself, my wife or my child going through life getting uptight about trace amounts of substances. You can't keep kids in a bubble, and even if you could you would do them more harm socially than good. Before you know it they will be eating muck in the garden, it is not recommended but will not kill them...

Hotblack Desiato · 09-07-2008 12:02am

Mr. Anderson wrote: »

If you feel the odd drink won't do any harm then the odd smoke shouldn't either...

You are comparing two totally different drugs with two totally different delivery methods and sets of effects, for no reason other than that they both happen to be popular and legal.

Carbon monoxide from cigarettes goes straight across the placenta, reducing the oxygen supply to the baby within seconds. Alcohol does not do this. Inhaled drugs are surpassed in the intensity and speed of their effects only to injected drugs.

Let's pretend you are Mrs. Anderson.
If you have back pain late in pregnancy will you take painkillers? Your baby gets these too.

In labour you will probably be offered pethidine. This is an opiate drug (i.e. the morphine and heroin family) and is known to make babies more drowsy, sometimes for days. In other words it enters their body and remains there for quite some time.

Unless something was a definite medical no-no I wouldn't stop my wife from doing it. She's the one sacrificing her body for months on end to make our baby and if I got on my high horse she'd tell me where to go, and she'd be right.

Loomis · 09-07-2008 12:22am

ninja900 wrote: »

You are comparing two totally different drugs with two totally different delivery methods and sets of effects, for no reason other than that they both happen to be popular and legal.

Carbon monoxide from cigarettes goes straight across the placenta, reducing the oxygen supply to the baby within seconds. Alcohol does not do this. Inhaled drugs are surpassed in the intensity and speed of their effects only to injected drugs.

Let's pretend you are Mrs. Anderson.
If you have back pain late in pregnancy will you take painkillers? Your baby gets these too.

In labour you will probably be offered pethidine. This is an opiate drug (i.e. the morphine and heroin family) and is known to make babies more drowsy, sometimes for days. In other words it enters their body and remains there for quite some time.

Unless something was a definite medical no-no I wouldn't stop my wife from doing it. She's the one sacrificing her body for months on end to make our baby and if I got on my high horse she'd tell me where to go, and she'd be right.

I picked it because they're the two legal drugs that are still frowned upon if a woman is pregnant. Obviously citing heroin as an example would be pointless. Both are frowned upon but women still do these two which is why I asked

09-07-2008 12:33pm

My brothers girf is drinking during her pregnancy and while i agree sitting over a glass of wine or a beer is fine , a few bottles of WKD or a vodka and lime is a no no.

My boyfriend says when/if we have children he would give up drink no problem for the 9 months which I though was really sweet

Grawns · 09-07-2008 4:09pm

Getting my husband to have a drink is difficult! He probably drinks with his childhood friends ( in UK) about 3 times a year. And he's such a cute drunk too. Does make it very easy for me to steer clear though as we were on holiday in Greece last week and he didn't touch a drop.

I miss red wine with my meals when eating out

( he always has a coke)

MagicMarker · 09-07-2008 5:36pm

The way i see it, drinking while pregnant is a little bit like going 100km/h in a 50km zone.

Yeah, more often than not, nothing will happen, but there will be a time when something will happen.

The people who speed to that extent probably think they're fabulous drivers and would never admit that they could end up hurting someone, or worse.

But the truth is, it happens. So, no matter how confident you are that your child will be fine, you just DON'T KNOW.

And if you're willing to take that risk with your own unborn child, then that says a lot about you tbh.

Nevyn · 09-07-2008 5:41pm

There are certain things which we know due to a huge ammount of medical data are harmful for all expectant mother's to consume/imbibe and are others which expectant mother's are warned off and warned to be careful about but end of the day it is a person's choice when it comes to those things which there is not a huge ammount of clear data on.

faceman · 10-07-2008 11:27am

MagicMarker wrote: »

The way i see it, drinking while pregnant is a little bit like going 100km/h in a 50km zone.

Yeah, more often than not, nothing will happen, but there will be a time when something will happen.

The people who speed to that extent probably think they're fabulous drivers and would never admit that they could end up hurting someone, or worse.

But the truth is, it happens. So, no matter how confident you are that your child will be fine, you just DON'T KNOW.

And if you're willing to take that risk with your own unborn child, then that says a lot about you tbh.

I used to agree with you until about a year ago when i read up on recent medical studies which point out that a small amount of alcohol intake after the first 3 months is of no risk.

However i feel to see why anyone would have a longing for a glass of vodka, bottle of WKD or Barcardi Breezer at that stage. I can understand someone wanting to enjoy a glass of wine with a meal tho.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-07-2008 3:32pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

The way i see it, drinking while pregnant is a little bit like going 100km/h in a 50km zone.

Fine, but lots of other people, including myself would see a statment like that as over the top to the point of being ridiculous.

Having the odd drink while pregnant would be more like going 51km/h in a 50km/h zone. In other words lots of people do it and yet there is no evidence showing that it is dangerous (because any risk is so small as to be less than the margin of error of any study you can do - just as no speedometer or even speed gun is guaranteed to be accurate to within 1km/h.)

So, no matter how confident you are that your child will be fine, you just DON'T KNOW.

so let's say the baby is not perfect, how do you know that your one glass of wine a week did it? You don't. Nobody can. You could seal yourself in an oxygen filled bubble for nine months and still have had the same outcome.

And if you're willing to take that risk with your own unborn child, then that says a lot about you tbh.

Nonsense. Why not worry about something important instead. If you have the time to worry about every little thing to do with parenting I'd love to know how! Just make your decisions and do your best in your own way and (important bit) respect the decisions of others doing likewise even if those decisions might differ from the ones you would make - that doesn't make them irresponsible or bad.

MagicMarker · 10-07-2008 6:22pm

ninja900 wrote: »

so let's say the baby is not perfect, how do you know that your one glass of wine a week did it? You don't. Nobody can. You could seal yourself in an oxygen filled bubble for nine months and still have had the same outcome.

Yeah you could, but why not do what you can in the mean time?

I think your logic is flawed somewhat, it could be applied to anything. Including ciggarettes, hash, coke, even shooting heroin during the early stages of pregnancy, if there is something wrong with their child, how do we know it was because of heroin?

Taking an ignorance is bliss approach to this is, well, ignorant.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-07-2008 6:49pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Yeah you could, but why not do what you can in the mean time?

Why stress about something which has no evidence of harm associated with it? in spite of studies having been carried out.
(I fully expect you to reply to this with a study involving alcoholics, or something... not relevant at all to what we are talking about, alcohol in very limited quantities.)

I think your logic is flawed somewhat, it could be applied to anything. Including ciggarettes, hash, coke, even shooting heroin during the early stages of pregnancy, if there is something wrong with their child, how do we know it was because of heroin?

No, it's your logic that is flawed.
The other things you have mentioned are all proven to cause harm. As alcohol is, in excessive quantities.
It would be prudent to avoid it altogether in early pregnancy, as if there is any tiny risk that is when it will be. (It would help if Irish people could manage to have sex without getting drunk first)

Taking an ignorance is bliss approach to this is, well, ignorant.

That's not what anyone is saying.

nesf · 10-07-2008 7:05pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

The way i see it, drinking while pregnant is a little bit like going 100km/h in a 50km zone.

Yeah, more often than not, nothing will happen, but there will be a time when something will happen.

The people who speed to that extent probably think they're fabulous drivers and would never admit that they could end up hurting someone, or worse.

But the truth is, it happens. So, no matter how confident you are that your child will be fine, you just DON'T KNOW.

And if you're willing to take that risk with your own unborn child, then that says a lot about you tbh.

Large amounts of alcohol are bad for an unborn child; however, small amounts don't really have an effect. The thing is, most people have trouble just having one small glass of wine and are better off not drinking at all than risking having "just another one". The most effective way to get people to consume small amounts is to tell them to consume none at all but that doesn't mean that small amounts are damaging etc.

You are overstating the risks involved in drinking here.

MagicMarker · 10-07-2008 7:07pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Why stress about something which has no evidence of harm associated with it? in spite of studies having been carried out.
(I fully expect you to reply to this with a study involving alcoholics, or something... not relevant at all to what we are talking about, alcohol in very limited quantities.)

No, it's your logic that is flawed.
The other things you have mentioned are all proven to cause harm. As alcohol is, in excessive quantities.
It would be prudent to avoid it altogether in early pregnancy, as if there is any tiny risk that is when it will be. (It would help if Irish people could manage to have sex without getting drunk first)

That's not what anyone is saying.

Some profesionals believe that small quanitities of alcohol are harmless while others believe otherwise. If it's prudent not to drink at all during the first 3 months then why start after that? Does it suddenly become good for the unborn baby? Of course not. So regardless of risks, why introduce alcohol into an unborn babys system? You wouldn't do it after the child is born (i'd hope not anyway), so why do it before hand? Because it's exactly the same thing.

The truth is that it's still very much unclear how much alcohol is needed to created problems after birth or even later on in life.

I just know that i'd rather be safe than sorry.

nesf · 10-07-2008 7:12pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Some profesionals believe that small quanitities of alcohol are harmless while others believe otherwise.

Link to studies then to back that up and lets debate this properly.

Ludo · 10-07-2008 7:18pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

Some profesionals believe that small quanitities of alcohol are harmless while others believe otherwise. If it's prudent not to drink at all during the first 3 months then why start after that? Does it suddenly become good for the unborn baby?

Don't know if you have read all this topic or not Magic, so I will just say this here again. Some consultants say red wine (a glass every so often) is no harm as it apparently helps circulation or something. I'm sure there are better ways of achieving the same results without alcohol of course but that probably involves drugs which may be as harmful.

This whole alcohol thing is a lot of the usual scaremongering because there are some people who may read that alcohol is not known to be any harm in small quantities and take that as a license to drink all round them while pregnant.

Of course those people are probably going to drink to excess anyway regardless of what they are told so it is a bit pointless.

MagicMarker · 10-07-2008 7:46pm

Ludo wrote: »

Don't know if you have read all this topic or not Magic, so I will just say this here again. Some consultants say red wine (a glass every so often) is no harm as it apparently helps circulation or something. I'm sure there are better ways of achieving the same results without alcohol of course but that probably involves drugs which may be as harmful.

This whole alcohol thing is a lot of the usual scaremongering because there are some people who may read that alcohol is not known to be any harm in small quantities and take that as a license to drink all round them while pregnant.

Of course those people are probably going to drink to excess anyway regardless of what they are told so it is a bit pointless.

And i'm sure there are some consultants who say otherwise.

As for links, i fail to really see the point, because i'm sure there are just as many links to studies that say light drinking is harmless.

This is my point, there's nothing set in stone, no one really knows for sure. Just like i don't know, just like you don't know!

All i'm saying is why take the chance?

http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/1502/63
http://health.dailynewscentral.com/content/view/421/62
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2004-03/ace-ltm030804.php
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/preg/a/blacer040316.htm

faceman · 10-07-2008 7:46pm

nesf wrote: »

Link to studies then to back that up and lets debate this properly.

Im not a member of the BMJ so i cant link to all articles but they have published studies for and against. Here are some other articles for and against.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/334/7605/1186-a?maxtoshow

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/330/7488/375?maxtoshow=

http://www.patient.co.uk/showdoc/27000506/

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_information/html/healthy_living/lifestyle/alcohol/pregnancy.html

Ludo · 10-07-2008 8:03pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

And i'm sure there are some consultants who say otherwise.

As for links, i fail to really see the point, because i'm sure there are just as many links to studies that say light drinking is harmless.

This is my point, there's nothing set in stone, no one really knows for sure. Just like i don't know, just like you don't know!

All i'm saying is why take the chance?

Agreed in general...and that is why we are up to page 7. There is no definitive answer to this one as of now so some people will not take any chances (perfectly understandable) but just as many will be willing to take the negligible risk (no evidence to back up that claim other than the fact everyone I know who has been pregnant has had a glass of wine...and none of them are big drinkers).

nesf · 10-07-2008 8:03pm

MagicMarker wrote: »

As for links, i fail to really see the point, because i'm sure there are just as many links to studies that say light drinking is harmless.

Not really no, what defines light drinking is a key issue here. Some put the limit on one or two units a week, others at an average of one unit per day (which is very different, one unit a day is definitely not the same as seven units on a Friday night every week.

There is debate, but the medical consensus seems to be that anything more than light drinking using either of the above definitions is damaging and there's plenty of evidence of this. The public policy consensus is that telling people to abstain from alcohol is more effective than telling them they can indulge in light drinking because a) people have trouble just having the one and b) most people can't tell what one unit of alcohol actually is, especially in a bar.

There are two sides to this, there isn't much evidence of damage at one to two units a week; however, advising people to abstain is preferable. The problem is that the second point doesn't mean that we should tell people that one small glass of wine a week is going to damage their child. Abstaining is safer, but then so is never going on a car journey or eating foods you haven't prepared yourself. There's a reasonable line people can draw on these things relative to the risk involved.

Hotblack Desiato · 11-07-2008 2:10pm

nesf wrote: »

The public policy consensus is that telling people to abstain from alcohol is more effective than telling them they can indulge in light drinking

In other words, treat the public as idiots, we know what's best... :mad:

because a) people have trouble just having the one

I don't find this credible, plenty of people have no trouble having just the one if they have a strong reason to do so - e.g. driving, or pregnancy.

The only people who really cannot trust themselves to stop at one are alcoholics. (I knew we'd get back to alcoholism even though it is totally irrelevant to this thread...)

and b) most people can't tell what one unit of alcohol actually is, especially in a bar.

I think most people know the difference between having one small drink (e.g. small glass of wine, not the ones that are practically half a bottle) and one large one - and the difference between having one drink to enjoy it, and having one drink to whet one's appetite for a night's drinking.

Pub glasses of wine (1/4 btl) and pub measures are a lot more standardised than what you get drinking in someone's home. So it would probably be easier in a bar to know exactly what you are drinking.

There's a reasonable line people can draw on these things relative to the risk involved.

Sure and we need to ensure people are informed (with the truth, no scaremongering or exaggeration by the govt.) and then let them make their decision.

MagicMarker, three months is when your baby is basically formed and just has to grow and mature. Exposure to radation, chemicals etc. which cause mutation (alcohol isn't one, afaik) is most dangerous before that time.

nesf · 11-07-2008 3:39pm

ninja900 wrote: »

Sure and we need to ensure people are informed (with the truth, no scaremongering or exaggeration by the govt.) and then let them make their decision.

Sure but most people won't go to the trouble of being informed and just want a simple bit of advice to follow. Advocating abstinence is a straightforward policy approach that minimises risk to the unborn child. It may be overkill in terms of safety but that's better than the alternative.

Quality · 14-07-2008 9:13pm

http://www.ndc.hrb.ie/articles.php?drart=182&issid=13

According to this research done 63% of women drink during pregnancy.

Drinking during pregnancy!

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