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Russia - LGBT situation

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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,775 ✭✭✭✭Gbear


    Not LGBT but I spotted an open letter that Stephen Fry has written to David Cameron and the people running the British Olympic committee about the upcoming Winter Olympics:

    http://www.stephenfry.com/2013/08/07/an-open-letter-to-david-cameron-and-the-ioc/single-page/

    That some people in here might fancy a read off it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    I've merged 5 threads on Russia into one

    Good letter from BelongTo/IGLYO/USI/NYCI here

    http://www.belongto.org/attachments/250_Letter_Russian_Ambassador.pdf?utm_source=Newsletter+List&utm_campaign=1cd8f25bd5-Russia_Embassy_Letter8_7_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_096b9fe041-1cd8f25bd5-312213781

    Event this Thursday in Outhouse (tomorrow)

    https://www.facebook.com/events/520591194661251/

    Also the Russian LGBT Network have made a statement on the Olympics

    https://www.facebook.com/LGBT.Russia


    WINTER OLYMPICS: WE SHOULD SPEAK UP, NOT WALK OUT

    Dear friends and colleagues,

    In light of the recently enacted Russian law on ‘propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations among minors’ that renders illegal statements and actions that acknowledge LGBT equality and in response to the growing violence against LGBT people and allies in Russia, the upcoming Winter Olympics and Paralympics in Sochi have already become a subject of an international debate both over the impact of this context on the athletes, spectators, staff, and volunteers of the Games and over compliance of the Sochi Games with the Olympic values of diversity and non-discrimination.

    The Russian LGBT Network applauds the actions of individuals and organizations who address the escalating official and societal homophobia in Russia, and we are with them in the commitment to the protection of the rights and freedoms of LGBT people and allies. Numerous initiatives in regards the 2014 Winter Olympics are successfully garnering support worldwide, with the centerpiece of the debate being the pro- / counter-boycott considerations. We would like to join the momentum and share our vision.

    While we value diversity in approaches and welcome all efforts that forward justice and equality, we will contribute the work of the LGBT Network to the promotion of proactive participation in the Games instead of a boycott.

    We believe that calls for the spectators to boycott Sochi, for the Olympians to retreat from competition, and for governments, companies, and national Olympic committees to withdraw from the event risk to transform the powerful potential of the Games in a less powerful gesture that would prevent the rest of the world from joining LGBT people, their families and allies in Russia in solidarity and taking a firm stance against the disgraceful human rights record in this country.

    In retrospect, the record of the Olympic boycotts is not utterly promising in regards the potential to bring a change; look at the 1980 boycott of the Moscow Olympics, the 1984 ‘retaliation’ boycott of the LA Games, or at the 1968 Olympics in Mexico City. What is remembered from 1968 is neither the number nor the names of those who boycotted the Games, but the ‘human rights salute’ by Tommie Smith and John Carlos who rose black-gloved fists and bowed their heads on the victory stand as a sign of resistance to racial injustice and solidarity with everyone who fought for equality and human rights.

    The Olympic Games are a unique and powerful occasion for individuals, organizations, diplomatic missions, and governments to come together and voice, in tune with the Olympic ideals, the ideas of human rights, freedoms, equality and justice – regardless of sexual orientation and gender identity.

    Participation and attendance of the Games in Sochi will not indicate endorsement of injustice and discrimination; they will only if they are silent. We hope to join forces and succeed in raising everyone’s voices for LGBT equality in Russia and elsewhere. We hope that together with those who share this vision, we will succeed in sending the strongest message possible by involving athletes, diplomats, sponsors, and spectators to show up and speak up, proclaiming equality in most compelling ways.

    We call for organizations and individuals who are attending the Games to exercise freedom of expression and freedom of assembly and to not fall accomplices to the homophobic policies by censoring own beliefs, statements, and identities.

    We will work for greater visibility of LGBT pride before, during, and after the Games in all domains possible, and we hope for the support of national organizations in making sure that the athletes publicly take a stance against violence toward LGBT people and stand strong for LGBT equality; that the national houses fill the gap of the banned Pride House and support LGBT athletes, staff, spectators and their allies on their grounds; that sponsors follow through with their policies and visualize their commitment to justice and observance of human rights in regards LGBT people at the Games; and that the broadcasters display all this in a positive and supportive way.

    The Olympics in Sochi should embody the ideals and values of the Games and should demonstrate to everyone who is watching that the greatest athletes stand strong with their LGBT competitors and partners, out or closeted, and that together they stand strong with LGBT people and allies everywhere.

    Do not boycott the Olympics – boycott homophobia! Stand in solidarity with people in Russia and bring LGBT pride and values of human rights and freedoms to the Games in Sochi!

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Stephen Fry has now called for Russia to be stripped of the Winter Olympic Games

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0807/466918-stephen-fry-russia/

    I guess this is where the pressure may begin to have an effect


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Young Russian gay dies after torture-it's being reported. Can anyone translate what is being said?

    It details how the gang tortured him, it's absolutely sickening if true but the article is a guy's blog not a news outlet so there's no way to know if what he says is accurate or embellished. For that reason I've deleted my earlier post where I translated some of it.

    Lets just say that if this blog is accurate then this guy suffered an appalling and brutal death.


  • Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Aurongroove


    Not ordering mods on how to do their jobs

    But I suggest the petition should've been left as it's own thread (and perhaps added to by OP editing, and perhaps stickied)
    as in is now (in the middle of a growing thread) can you really see it having the same exposure?
    It isn't even visible from the main forum.

    I don't like being judgmental, but it's not like the Russian situation is a 'one thread' kind of event anyways: It's the single most important event in LGBT culture today and may grow even bigger.
    I feel stuff like petitions and any venture that requires as many hits as possible for best effect deserves at the very least a "Headline" in the main forum page and tossing it into a "Russians 'n' stuff" mega thread, is at best not ideal, and at worst, morally irresponsible to those currently being targeted.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Vologda69


    As someone who has been to Russia several times, it saddens me to see Putin and his cronies drag his country back to the dark ages. I loved everything about the place, the whacky sense of humour, the architecture, music, history, I even went to the ballet (all 4 hours if it). What I didn't like was the hatred I saw towards minorities and non nationals. It seems to have become much worse under Putin and his horrid youth wing. I doubt I will go back anytime soon. I'm a great admirer of Stephen Fry, but there is no question that Russia will get their Winter Olympics. Russian oil and gas will see to that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    One way could be for the IOC and national committees sending sports-persons, umpires and personages to the games, is to allow them bring rainbow clothing or items to Russia for use outside or prior to the events they are involved in, and leave it to the Russians Law Enforcement Agencies to respond by either arresting, charging and deporting the "offenders" and seizing the items. The Govt's would be well advised to keep out of the games, except for answering "advisory questions" from participants and fans, until they were required to immediately assist their citizens in matters involving Russian legal affairs on the ground.


    The IOC would be backing up the freedom of participation of LGBT sports-persons at the games, whilst not directly bringing politics into the games. It'd be interesting to see whether jingo-ism might make some anti-gays groups in major countries change their tune, in a "wrap the flag around me" manner.


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    aloyisious wrote: »
    One way could be for the IOC and national committees sending sports-persons, umpires and personages to the games, is to allow them bring rainbow clothing or items to Russia for use outside or prior to the events they are involved in

    I believe that would be very effective, in the same way we all remember Jesse Owens taking 4 gold away from Hitlers "superior Aryan athletes".


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 42,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Beruthiel


    From Stephen Fry:

    BRJrJb1CQAEO-Lj.png


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Another video of a teen being bullied by a gang, this one was posted yesterday afternoon, so it's brand new and likely happened in the last few days.

    This video contains no violence but is still very frightening and humiliating for the boy (Andrew) who we are told is 17. At approx 9.00 they make him call his boss and tell her what they are doing, she gets quite angry and agrees with the gang that he should face punishment. They do appear to let him go unharmed at the end of the video.

    Even after all of the outcry of the previous few weeks this is still sadly happening on a daily basis in broad daylight with plenty of witnesses as this video shows.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    If you want action to be taken by the OCI to signal their opposition to the Russian Federation's anti-gay laws, send an Email to: admin@olympicsport.ie, outlining your points of view. Personally, and after speaking to a Russian gay man last night in Dublin, I repeat my point about an Irish group attending the games wearing the rainbow logo in solidarity with gay Russians. The Russian LGBT groups want the world to attend the games.

    There are a large group of Irish firms etc sponsoring the OCI. If you want, contact those firms and pressure the OCI to use the rainbow Logo on it's team uniforms and sports wear at the games. The names of the sponsors, and of the various sports affiliated to the OCI, are included in the page opened by clicking on this address:
    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.olympics.ie%2F&ei=uqMEUq79AaSq7Qar4oHgCw&usg=AFQjCNEGXWBLjJmGaB6AVK9QdzvZ1xL6tw&bvm=bv.50500085,d.ZGU


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    Contact the press officer of the Olympic Council of Ireland to register your concerns:

    01-6375219


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,573 ✭✭✭pragmatic1


    An awful lot of race based hate crimes happening in that country too. It's turning into/is a fascist state.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    It's official, Athletes have nothing to worry about.

    https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=newssearch&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDYQqQIoADAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.news.com.au%2Fsport%2Fmore-sports%2Frussia-not-afraid-of-olympic-boycott%2Fstory-fndukor0-1226694569186&ei=ymcFUtGED6me7AbjnYCgDQ&usg=AFQjCNGb4QcFLrjKojxpjgd45hWYcJS_QA

    Edit; yesterday's Irish Indo had a small article on the Russian economic downturn, growth was .07% less that expected, leading to possible political problems for Mr Putin, a bonus to the opposition.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There is now a facebook group based in Ireland

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/283071891830811?_rdr

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,207 ✭✭✭jaffacakesyum


    There is now a facebook group based in Ireland

    https://m.facebook.com/groups/283071891830811?_rdr

    Do you have the facebook link to the event page for the protest at the Russian embassy handy? Thanks, can't seem to find it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Do you have the facebook link to the event page for the protest at the Russian embassy handy? Thanks, can't seem to find it!

    https://www.facebook.com/events/365789256881919/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    This from the "Action for Russia" facebook page. The gent, Maxim Marksinkovich, named as the ringleader in the item below, is mentioned several times in the post above and has done prison time in Russia for "Nazi-related" activities.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/08/the-rise-of-homophobic-cyberbullying-in-russia.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 931 ✭✭✭periodictable


    aloyisious wrote: »
    Maxim Marksinkovich, named as the ringleader in the item below, is mentioned several times in the post above and has done prison time in Russia for "Nazi-related" activities.

    http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/elements/2013/08/the-rise-of-homophobic-cyberbullying-in-russia.html

    Talk about someone with issues-has he no idea of what the Nazis did to the Russian people?
    I must admit that despite his behavior, I think he's most likely a closet case. So many of his photos look like they come from any one of several porn or dating sites.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Plek Trum


    aloyisious wrote: »

    This is so so disturbing. Is there any official unified body or organisation in Ireland that is specifically demanding a response from our Government on this? A public and open condemnation??

    I can't help but think if this reached the masses here in Ireland then the support for gay equality and rights would certainly gain momentum, while also raising awareness of the disgusting situation in Russia.

    I am sickened, disappointed and feel heartful sympathy and worry for the young people there. Even from the most basic, simple and humanitarian view, this can't be permitted.

    I have never felt any significant issue at all about being gay or being 'out'... until now. ... :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,220 ✭✭✭Davaeo09


    Blood is boiling here, i'd love to get my hands on some of those little scummers :mad:

    Its so cruel to see humans turning on each other over some thing so trivial, and some thing that should have no effect on anyone else lifes..

    Lets hope some thing changes FAST!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,767 ✭✭✭La_Gordy


    I lived in southern Russia for a while and was a brilliant experience, one of the happiest times of my life. What I repeatedly say about Russia is it's a wonderful country with a terrible state. The average Russian does tend to be homophobic and one of their common words for gay people means pederast.
    That said, the gay scene where I was living was active and not under threat from militant homophobes. You wouldn't see gay people holding hands or kissing on the street, but I'd wager even here where we're supposedly less homophobic, a gay couple would be given heavy hassle.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,414 CMod ✭✭✭✭Ten of Swords


    Davaeo09 wrote: »
    Blood is boiling here, i'd love to get my hands on some of those little scummers :mad:

    Here they are;
    http://www.spectrumhr.org/hot-news-1/putinsregimecondonesgayteenstortureinirkutskrussia

    They are known to the authorities, all of them, and there will be no consequences for any of them because the majority of the locals either support this or turn a blind eye.

    The bent thumb gesture turns my stomach every time I see it. I sincerely hope I never see it being made in Ireland.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Plek Trum wrote: »
    This is so so disturbing. Is there any official unified body or organisation in Ireland that is specifically demanding a response from our Government on this? A public and open condemnation??
    http://www.actionforrussia.com/

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Here they are;
    http://www.spectrumhr.org/hot-news-1/putinsregimecondonesgayteenstortureinirkutskrussia

    They are known to the authorities, all of them, and there will be no consequences for any of them because the majority of the locals either support this or turn a blind eye.

    The bent thumb gesture turns my stomach every time I see it. I sincerely hope I never see it being made in Ireland.

    Give him time, he'll get too big for his boots, threaten the "wrong" person and end up lying face-down somewhere. I reckon that as he's already done time, he's being used and is expendable; not that that's much consolation at this moment. Show enough True-Blue Russians the photo of him in that SS tunic and he'll get what's due.

    In line with the ActionForRussia group, there's a chance that there will be another protest at the Russian Embassy soon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 40,880 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    aloyisious wrote: »
    Give him time, he'll get too big for his boots, threaten the "wrong" person and end up lying face-down somewhere. I reckon that as he's already done time, he's being used and is expendable; not that that's much consolation at this moment. Show enough True-Blue Russians the photo of him in that SS tunic and he'll get what's due.

    In line with the ActionForRussia group, there's a chance that there will be another protest at the Russian Embassy soon.

    There is a protest on September 8th

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,554 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    St Petersburg (Vlad's home town) G20 summit Sept 5 and 6. That should be some meeting, Russia assumed the chair of the G20 group on Dec 021 last.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭Plek Trum


    It seems there are politician(s) in Russia now calling for a ban on all gay blood donors...

    http://news.sky.com/story/1133543/russian-politician-calls-for-gay-blood-ban

    Does this ever stop??


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