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Uk Threaten to storm Ecuador Embassy for Assange

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    #32
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    youve never heard of Christopher Tappin or Richard O'Dwyer then.

    Didn't say it never happens said it was more difficult, the UK sometimes refuses or it gets appealed etc Sweden rarely refuse.


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    #33
    SamHarris
    Registered Users Posts: 1,633 ✭✭✭SamHarris


    20Cent wrote: »
    Look at the example I gave you Gary McKinnon an alleged hacker the US wants they have been trying to extradite him for years but the UK laws are stronger they can't do it. Sweden on the other hand rarely refuse to extradite. Not a story its fact.


    He is and was a UK citizen, Assange is not.

    So on one side of the argument we have facts and hard evidence of parties involved, on the other we have nebulous CTs and pure speculation. Seems pretty clear where any honest arbiter of what theory holds more credence would place their judgment.


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    #34
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Ecuador are deliberately interfering in the legal process of both the UK and Sweden.

    Britain is actually threatening to revoke the embassy's privileges, which would allow the police to enter and arrest Assange.

    Even if they grant Assange asylum, he has to leave sometime, but why would a government offer asylum to a man charged with rape?

    Ecuador need to stfu and stop behaving like some tinpot banana republic.

    We're not a colony ffs, what's that all about.
    Assange's appearent ' crime ' is that he has shown that the secrecy behind which the politicians and officials like to hide when committing heinous crimes against innocent people can be easily penetrated. It's a bit rich the tinpot former coloniser claiming to be persuing international justice considering the many gross criminals it has welcomed down the years.

    Pinochet and Thatcher
    thatcherpinochetPA_228x272.jpg
    Mugabe and Thatcher
    _43018855_mugabethatcher203.jpg


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    #35
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories but it does strike me as strange that the UK government is willing to threaten Ecuador with a diplomatic incident to force them to hand over someone who hasn't been found guilty of any crime.

    Is the UK normally this determined to see those accused of sexual assault in another jurisdiction stand trial?

    Can the victims of sexual assault across the globe now rest easy knowing that the UK government will not only track down their attacker should he enter their jurisdiction but will also leave no stone unturned to ensure that their attacker is extradited for trial - even to the extent of causing a diplomatic incident?


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    #36
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Ecuador due to make a statement shortly hope they give him asylum.


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    #37
    KyussBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,797 ✭✭✭KyussBishop


    I would like to see the allegations in Sweden heard out, but it's hard to determine the veracity of the extradition threat.

    It is known that the US have a secret grand jury setup to potentially prosecute him, and it's kept under tight secrecy at the moment;
    it's also known that Sweden have a history of co-operating with the US on extraordinary rendition, and have previously had talks with the US over extradition of Assange.

    It's also quite unusual that Sweden have not settled with questioning him (that's the whole reason they are after him, to question him) in the UK, as well as the bizarre way the case against him has been handled, along with all the media/political vitriol getting spewed at him in Sweden; they also refuse to guarantee that he won't be extradited to the US.
    Not to mention that now, it's extraordinarily unusual for the UK to threaten to storm an embassy, an unprecedented event for a government, which is a massive threat to the integrity of the entire diplomatic process.


    He should definitely face the allegations in Sweden someday (though why Sweden wont do its questioning in the UK is baffling), but while not enough is known about the US grand jury against Assange (which could put a high potential on US seeking extradition), and while the question of him potentially being extradited from Sweden is open (since they won't even offer to guarantee he won't be extradited to the US), it makes sense for him to seek protection like this, even if the likelihood of extradition is not known 100%.


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    #38
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    thecommietommy wrote: »
    Assange's appearent ' crime ' is that he has shown that the secrecy behind which the politicians and officials like to hide when committing heinous crimes against innocent people can be easily penetrated. It's a bit rich the tinpot former coloniser claiming to be persuing international justice considering the many gross criminals it has welcomed down the years.

    Did Assange expose heinous crimes?


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    #39
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Mr Assange says he fears that if extradited to Sweden, he will then be passed on to the American authorities.

    At a news conference in Quito on Wednesday, Ecuador's Foreign Minister, Ricardo Patino, said a letter from the UK government had been delivered through a British embassy official.

    "Today we received from the United Kingdom an express threat, in writing, that they might storm our embassy in London if we don't hand over Julian Assange," he said.

    "Ecuador rejects in the most emphatic terms the explicit threat of the British official communication."

    He said such a threat was "improper of a democratic, civilised and rule-abiding country".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-19259623

    How can anybody believe that Assange won't be treated fairly? Ahem *cough* Guantanamo.

    It seems a little tooooo convenient, that the guy who leaked all the secret cables and various other piles of information on the dirty secrets of governments around the world, is also a rapist. Handy that.

    Also, why would Ecuador be suspicious of the UK or the US? I won't mention the USA meddling in Nicaragua and El Salvador. The USA and the UK know what's best for everybody. :rolleyes:


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    #40
    blubloblu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭blubloblu


    http://rt.com/on-air/
    Press confernce on asylum decision live now.


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    #41
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    Ecuador is a member of USAN ( Union of South American Nations, a sort of South American version of the EU). I wonder if as a member they flex a little muscle especially Chavez's oil rich Venezula at Britannia, we might see a quick change of heart ? :)


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    #42
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Fair play Ecuador.
    Getting to the airport is the next battle!!!


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    #43
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Did Assange expose heinous crimes?
    You mustn't have heard of wiki leaks or is it that they are not heinous crimes if perpetrated by the west in your book ?


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    #44
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    thecommietommy wrote: »
    You mustn't have heard of wiki leaks or is it that they are not heinous crimes if perpetrated by the west in your book ?

    Which heinous crimes were exposed?


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    #45
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    is there a danger here that posters, for whatever reason.....agreeing that people accused of sex crimes get away without recourse to law....

    has there not been enough of that in ireland already.....???????


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    #46
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Which heinous crimes were exposed?
    Just Google it as I'm not ar$ed spoon feeding you as you'll doubtless reject whatever I provide anyway.


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    #47
    Dirk Gently
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,784 ✭✭✭Dirk Gently


    Ecuador just granted asylum.


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    #48
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    golden lane wrote: »
    is there a danger here that posters, for whatever reason.....agreeing that people accused of sex crimes get away without recourse to law....

    has there not been enough of that in ireland already.....???????

    I think everyone including Assange want these allegations legally addressed so no.


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    #49
    Rascasse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Rascasse


    golden lane wrote: »
    is there a danger here that posters, for whatever reason.....agreeing that people accused of sex crimes get away without recourse to law....

    has there not been enough of that in ireland already.....???????

    People seem to be saying that Assange should assist the investigation, but that the Swedes haven't helped themselves here.

    At the end of the day there is a very great risk of him facing the rest of his life in solitary confinement for doing nothing more that embarrassing the State Dept. If he leaves the UK to go to Sweden he won't be allowed back in if the Swedes don't proceed (as he is without a visa and won't be given another for the foreseeable future) so its the perfect opportunity for the Americans to seek him. Even if the Swedes say no, he will likely be sent back to Australia and I can't see them saying no to an extradition request.

    I'm usually quite right wing about these sorts of things but this case is far too complicated to just say 'send him to Sweden'.


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    #50
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    thecommietommy wrote: »
    Just Google it as I'm not ar$ed spoon feeding you as you'll doubtless reject whatever I provide anyway.

    I don't need to, I'm pretty aware of the issue, I was wondering what you classified as exposing "heinous crimes"?

    You are referring to alleged incidents exposed regarding Kenya, Peru, Ivory coast, banking irregularities, etc yes?


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    #51
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    rape and sexual assaults are a persistant problem in ecuador........


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    #52
    southsiderosie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,565 ✭✭✭southsiderosie


    MOD NOTE:

    I've had to delete a few posts on this thread. While people are entitled to their opinions on Assange and how this case is being handled, they are not entitled to misrepresent the Swedish legal allegations against him, as this is potentially libelous. The charges are widely available online, and as far as I am aware, have to do with issues around consent, not age. If you can produce a reputable news source that says otherwise, then link to it with your comments, but otherwise, please refrain from these kinds of conjectures, as they are legally quite dangerous.


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    #53
    Rascasse
    Registered Users Posts: 1,670 ✭✭✭Rascasse


    golden lane wrote: »
    rape and sexual assaults are a persistant problem in ecuador........

    Can we stop using the word rape? He has not been accused of rape (nor sex with minors as was laughably suggested).


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    #54
    KerranJast
    Registered Users Posts: 1,829 ✭✭✭KerranJast


    So he's been granted asylum. Surely the next step is bung him into a diplomatic car and drive to Switzerland. Can the UK police prevent a DC from using the Chunnel?


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    #55
    steve9859
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭steve9859


    Apparently, according to the legal guy in the BBC, diplomatic cars do not enjoy the same protection as the Embassy itself. He can be arrested as soon as he steps out the door, whether in a diplomatic car or not. I don't see the UK authorities letting Assange give them the slip, so he may be in the embassy for a very very long time!


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    #56
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Rascasse wrote: »
    Can we stop using the word rape? He has not been accused of rape (nor sex with minors as was laughably suggested).

    i have not accused anybody of rape or assaults on minors...

    i am just baffled that there are posters who seem to be happy that he may get away, and not be judged in a court of law.....

    too many people have got away without being judged in my opinion....

    as i have personal experience in such matters.....i am rather shocked....


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    #57
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I'm not normally one for conspiracy theories but it does strike me as strange that the UK government is willing to threaten Ecuador with a diplomatic incident to force them to hand over someone who hasn't been found guilty of any crime.

    Is the UK normally this determined to see those accused of sexual assault in another jurisdiction stand trial?

    Can the victims of sexual assault across the globe now rest easy knowing that the UK government will not only track down their attacker should he enter their jurisdiction but will also leave no stone unturned to ensure that their attacker is extradited for trial - even to the extent of causing a diplomatic incident?

    The UK is in an awkward position though. Both Julian Assange and Ecuador have taken the piss, very very publicly, out of the legal process.

    What the British foreign office has done is remind Ecuador that they are on dodge territory and the UK could revoke the diplomatic status of the embassy should it wish.

    Ecuador know full well they have overstepped the mark and are using the rallying cry of "help, nasty old imperial Britain is bullying us" to get the support of the usual left wing rent a mob.

    BTW, I would be interested in your view of the actual charges and what he did.

    Whilst not actually a criminal offence, the guy does sound like a real creep.


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    #58
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    golden lane wrote: »
    i have not accused anybody of rape or assaults on minors...

    i am just baffled that there are posters who seem to be happy that he may get away, and not be judged in a court of law.....

    too many people have got away without being judged in my opinion....

    as i have personal experience in such matters.....i am rather shocked....

    He's said himself that he wants to address the allegations, he went voluntarily to a police station in the UK, has offered to be interviewed by Swedish police in the UK. Its going to Sweden that's the problem, once there he's afraid of being extradited to the US, with good reason.


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    #59
    jhegarty
    Registered Users Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭jhegarty


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    BTW, I would be interested in your view of the actual charges and what he did.

    Whilst not actually a criminal offence, the guy does sound like a real creep.

    What charges ?

    He hasn't been charged with any crime.

    I think there is no doubt he is a creep.


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    #60
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    jhegarty wrote: »
    What charges ?

    He hasn't been charged with any crime.

    I think there is no doubt he is a creep.

    Ok, the allegations.

    The Guardian ran an article on it and it would seem the charges are more to do with unprotected sex rather than actually having sex. This is something I think a woman would have a different view on.


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    #61
    blubloblu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭blubloblu


    steve9859 wrote: »
    Apparently, according to the legal guy in the BBC, diplomatic cars do not enjoy the same protection as the Embassy itself. He can be arrested as soon as he steps out the door, whether in a diplomatic car or not. I don't see the UK authorities letting Assange give them the slip, so he may be in the embassy for a very very long time!
    The cars can't be searched, but they can be stopped. He'd need to get from the embassy to the car though, not easy.

    He hasn't been charged, he's wanted for questioning. Ecuador invited Swedish prosecutors to question him in London, but this was refused.

    Under the European Arrest Warrant framework, he cannot be re-extradited to a non-EU country without the consent of the UK. He has 45 days of some immunity in Sweden before they can re-open a case (extradition or otherwise) against him, this is also voided if he leaves and returns to Sweden. That's the point at which he should head for Ecuador. UK is unlikely to consent to extradition if there is a threat of the death penalty, although that's for the lawyers to argue.


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