Replacing School books with Ipads??

Noreen1 · 12-06-2011 3:24pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

A simple rule that only homework from N subjeccts per night is allowed. Teachers to sort it out themselves, either by dary ( ie. maths homework on tuesdays ) or by tokens in the staff room, - two tokens for class 3a - each teacher can only use up to two times a week.

This is not rocket science, it doesn't need a techno fix

This might work at Primary level, where there are fewer subjects and teachers.
At secondary school, however, where there are both more subjects and teachers, methinks it could prove problematic.

It would require co-operation from every teacher, in every school - and 100% compliance tends to be difficult to achieve in any group.(No disrespect to teachers.)

Noreen1 · 12-06-2011 3:36pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

If schools could use open soure text books they could print a chapter at a time so kids wouldn't need to take a whole book home, actually if school books were availabe to print on demand then students could have two copies, one at school and one at home.

Where would we find the open-source textbooks?
Besides, a lot of parents would object, based on cost/having even more printed material to store than is already the case.....

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

you get more bang for your buck in primary, I'd guess that some (old enough to vote) third level students go through as much materials as a whole primary class (excluding wages of course).

parents will pay eitherway

what can an ipad do that a €30 android type 7-10" tablet can't do ?
bearing in mind that stuff that isn't directly related to education doesn't count.

Apologies, I should have clarified my position.
I'm not in favour of iPads - I think an e-reader, or android typre 7-10" tablet is a better option.

However - many people, both parents and teachers, wouldn't have a clue what to buy.
Hence, schools will issue recommendations -

Whether those recommendations will be either the best or most cost-effective solution will, I suspect, vary a great deal from school to school...

thebman · 12-06-2011 4:03pm

Well what I don't understand about this is if you were going to use an electronic solution, why a tablet with an LCD screen and not an e-ink e-reader such as the kindle.

Steodonn · 12-06-2011 10:56pm

Laptop with a specially designed (hopefully open-source) OS. Limited accounts for students with admin accounts for students and teachers. Things that would distract students can be blocked and parents could open the internet ( like facebook ) to their kids at home if they want

Corsendonk · 12-06-2011 11:52pm

I just have a few questions from a practical point of view.

Wouldn't you have to refit a school with charge points at desks or are the batteries that good?
How will they off balance the increased energy consumption in schools? Will they be refitted with solar panels?
Can we replace the teacher entirely and replace with a controller who can release teaching programmes?

Strikes me that if it is to be effective way to work they have to go further than give them to a teacher whose own pc capabilities are behind the class or he or she is too busy updating facebook on their unblocked pad.

The system could be used to advance teaching schedules of class members that have learnt quicker than others so that every minute in class is used effectively to mentally challenge class members and also constantly keeps track of pupil progression. So parents can access their childs progress weekly online.

Capt'n Midnight · 13-06-2011 10:45am

Corsendonk wrote: »

I just have a few questions from a practical point of view.
Wouldn't you have to refit a school with charge points at desks or are the batteries that good?

the batteries could be that good with e ink ,with LCD loads of kids will have flat batteries so would require rewiring, cables, unmovable desks , health and safety etc.

[*]How will they off balance the increased energy consumption in schools? Will they be refitted with solar panels?

nope, parents would have to pay

[*]Can we replace the teacher entirely and replace with a controller who can release teaching programmes?

nope, look at the history of distance learning and how few people do it and how many of them are motivatied by stuff that the average schoolkid isn't

So parents can access their childs progress weekly online.

the parents that help kids with home work and attend parent teacher meetings will already know, the others don't care

Corsendonk · 13-06-2011 12:08pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

the batteries could be that good with e ink ,with LCD loads of kids will have flat batteries so would require rewiring, cables, unmovable desks , health and safety etc.

nope, parents would have to pay

nope, look at the history of distance learning and how few people do it and how many of them are motivatied by stuff that the average schoolkid isn't

the parents that help kids with home work and attend parent teacher meetings will already know, the others don't care

Doesn't sound like any advantage to the kids at all to be gained by the scheme. Yes sure the school bag is lighter but how many kids walk to school when they have SUVs and jeeps to carry them to the door step these days?

bpb101 · 13-06-2011 3:17pm

i would be against the idea but, think of so many times you took your friends book home by mistake...

banquo · 13-06-2011 3:50pm

I imagine 32 kids in a classroom with laptops would be a health and safety nightmare.

Steodonn · 14-06-2011 2:47am

Corsendonk wrote: »

Doesn't sound like any advantage to the kids at all to be gained by the scheme. Yes sure the school bag is lighter but how many kids walk to school when they have SUVs and jeeps to carry them to the door step these days?

Me and I have most of my life. Would of loved a laptop instead

thebman · 14-06-2011 3:05am

banquo wrote: »

I imagine 32 kids in a classroom with laptops would be a health and safety nightmare.

Classes only usually last the recommended attention span time which is roughly equal to the amount of time your supposed to spend in front of a VDU.

No problem with netbooks which are both affordable and useful.

iPads and tablet Pc's are a fad. They failed before for a reason, no keyboard and touch input devices are a pain which people are just about willing to put up with on a phone for the added functionality because they are used for short communications.

Nobody is going to do their homework or write an essay or even a full length email on a touchscreen device.

I know as I have written some and it is only ever as a last resort.

banquo · 14-06-2011 10:04am

That's not why tablets failed before.

You just can't have 32 netbooks in a classroom. There isn't a classroom in the country with 32 power outlets and an insurance company willing to take on 32 kids running around 32 wires.

The only tablet Ive used that IMHO equals the iPad in usability is the Xoom, and the iPad is cheaper. I notice that some eager poster took the time to go through my posts on another part of boards and gleefully noted that I dont currently have an iPad - I actually have two, but my parents have independently nicked both of them!

My mother, a 50-something, now consumes pretty much all her content digitally. The iPad is almost ridiculously easy to use, and these are schoolkids we're talking about here.

There's also the issue that, if the school ever updates the iPad models, that at least the interface will remain largely the same without any massive changes. Apple might not be the most open of companies - my apple tv now sits completely unused now that I have a Boxee Box (which I thoroughly recommend as a side note) but with kids you're not going for open. You're going for reliable, easy-to-use software.

Also, I do think that tablet mobile devices are the next iteration of home computing. Best they learn to use something like iOS - where you don't need to learn how to use an OS - then have to learn how to use Windows / OSX / some crappy netbook OS.

Also also, have you seen most primary school teachers try to use a computer?!

Sesshoumaru · 14-06-2011 11:38am

Some sort of lightweight tablet device would be a good idea. Devices like these can also be centrally locked down so only authorised applications can run. It simply wouldn't be possible for kids to use them to browse random websites or play games etc. In our environment we can lock down both Android and IOS (Apple) devices, people worrying about kids being able to play games on these devices are worrying about nothing.

Sesshoumaru · 14-06-2011 12:10pm

banquo wrote: »

That's not why tablets failed before.

You just can't have 32 netbooks in a classroom. There isn't a classroom in the country with 32 power outlets and an insurance company willing to take on 32 kids running around 32 wires.

The only tablet Ive used that IMHO equals the iPad in usability is the Xoom, and the iPad is cheaper. I notice that some eager poster took the time to go through my posts on another part of boards and gleefully noted that I dont currently have an iPad - I actually have two, but my parents have independently nicked both of them!

My mother, a 50-something, now consumes pretty much all her content digitally. The iPad is almost ridiculously easy to use, and these are schoolkids we're talking about here.

There's also the issue that, if the school ever updates the iPad models, that at least the interface will remain largely the same without any massive changes. Apple might not be the most open of companies - my apple tv now sits completely unused now that I have a Boxee Box (which I thoroughly recommend as a side note) but with kids you're not going for open. You're going for reliable, easy-to-use software.

Also, I do think that tablet mobile devices are the next iteration of home computing. Best they learn to use something like iOS - where you don't need to learn how to use an OS - then have to learn how to use Windows / OSX / some crappy netbook OS.

Also also, have you seen most primary school teachers try to use a computer?!

iPads are for consuming content, not doing work on. As you say they are very easy to use, kids don't need to learn how to use a touch interface. My 4 year old has no problem using the android tablets we have in our house our the iTouch or anything touched based. But I also teach her how to use a mouse and keyboard as much as possible.

Tablets of any sort are not going to replace PC's or Windows in the corporate environment anytime soon. The only way I can see a tablet on every desk in the near future is if they sit in a dock, which connects them to keyboard, mouse & monitor and which in turn then logs onto a terminal based system like Citrix. Which in essence means they'll be getting a Windows OS anyway and will need to know how to use one for content creation.

thebman · 14-06-2011 1:10pm

Sesshoumaru wrote: »

Some sort of lightweight tablet device would be a good idea. Devices like these can also be centrally locked down so only authorised applications can run. It simply wouldn't be possible for kids to use them to browse random websites or play games etc. In our environment we can lock down both Android and IOS (Apple) devices, people worrying about kids being able to play games on these devices are worrying about nothing.

Yes but it isn't even a question of locking them down, the main problem is they aren't designed for the task at hand.

An e-reader is better if you just want to use it to replace books. A netbook/laptop is better if you want to replace all notebooks too and have homework handed in electronically.

However maths would always be the obvious obstacle to any of this as it is tedious to get special characters on most word processors.

Could always teach them how to write LaTeX documents

http://www.latex-project.org/

Capt'n Midnight · 14-06-2011 2:43pm

banquo wrote: »

Also also, have you seen most primary school teachers try to use a computer?!

no one is saying you need a full OS on a device used to deliver content

you can install sugar or android etc. on a netbook/pc/laptop

banquo · 14-06-2011 6:26pm

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

no one is saying you need a full OS on a device used to deliver content

you can install sugar or android etc. on a netbook/pc/laptop

I have a friend who's solution to every technology-related problem ever is ''Install Android on it!''

I think that tablets can be used for content creation as well as consumption. Not in every aspect though. I think for shorter problems like maths, spelling, etc they could work really well. Their obvious downfall is for writing long passages of text.

It's the software, not the hardware that this really comes down to. I remember when Tony Blair and Bertie Ahern came to my school when I was 13 and spoke for flippin' ages on education and technology. For the massive funding the school got to get a decent ISDN line and new computers, we never did anything, anything even remotely productive during our weekly computer class. It mostly involved typing up letters verbatim from some ancient 'IT' book.

Language education could work phenomenally well on a tablet device if the software is good and the people behind it are creative about it - not just porting existing schoolbooks to an app where you can 'flick' the page or something.

As for iOS vs Android: I think the iPad has a few things up on Android in this particular area, and I'm open to being wrong:

1. They already exist in mass production, with a (whopping, wow!) 10% educational discount.

2. They act almost identically to iPod Touches and iPhones, so there's a greater chance of the teacher being able to use it competently from day one (never, ever underestimate human stupidity)

3. There's a much larger pool of developers to choose from.

And then why iPads probably will be chosen if tablet devices were to become mainstream overnight:

1. They're popular right now.

2. People in government will have, like, heard of them. In my experience, members of government not being aware of even the existence of technology since the Sony Walkman is more of a barrier to progress than you would believe.

bk · 14-06-2011 9:48pm

Lots of interesting stuff here.

First of all, I can't believe, people are still hung up on porn. The truth is every child since time began has looked at porn. No matter what you do, your child will find a way to look at porn. If you seriously think your child hasn't looked at porn (obviously depending on age) then your seriously deluded.

Second there seems to be a question as to what is being used here.

If the point is to replace text books, then a A4 e-ink reader is better.

On the other hand an iPad can have a far greater variety of educational tools.

I believe education theory says that different people learn and take in information in different ways. Some learn best by reading, others by sound, while others by video and interaction. With an iPad all the different ways of learning can be delivered and this can be a massive bonus to children, in particular those with learning disabilities.

I've checked out some of the educational software and apps on the iPad and they are simply incredible.

As for why iPad versus other android tablets. Well first of all, any of the decent android tablets are the same or more expensive then the iPad. The cheaper Android tablets really do suck. But more importantly the iPad has a vast array of educational apps, while android tablets have almost non at this stage.

Of course this may change in time, but talking to friends in the educational software industry, the entire industry is currently focusing almost exclusively on iPad.

The Scientician · 21-06-2011 7:26pm

Can anyone with experience tell me what the breakdown rate on portable computers (iPads, laptops etc) would be? Like if you had 500 students, how often would a unit need to be fixed or replaced? I think when the pricepoint gets really low it won't be an issue, but if the school or parent has to fork out €100s when a unit breaks, if they break too often it just wouldn't be all that cost effective.

I imagine the best way, from a school's point of view to have e-learning would be to have a locked-in desktop at every desk, with an intranet and then maybe the kids having laptops for homework.

Noreen1 · 21-06-2011 9:21pm

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/laptop-reliability-survey-asus-and-toshiba-win-hp-fails/

fatalll · 21-06-2011 9:28pm

I think IPads like all Apple gear is over priced.
Not sure why they dont use an android device...cheaper
or even a laptop/netbook

Insurance may be a problem and as someone said

...kids dont walk to school anymore so not quite sure why they are coomplaining about the weight issue of books....

I can see lots of issues like theft as well...

It will be interesting to see how it goes anyway

Hey if it doesnt kill you it will make you stronger...

Capt'n Midnight · 21-06-2011 10:24pm

The Scientician wrote: »

Can anyone with experience tell me what the breakdown rate on portable computers (iPads, laptops etc) would be? Like if you had 500 students, how often would a unit need to be fixed or replaced? I think when the pricepoint gets really low it won't be an issue, but if the school or parent has to fork out €100s when a unit breaks, if they break too often it just wouldn't be all that cost effective.

India is developing a $10 $20 $35 tablet based on ARM
plan on a few % being DOA
anything with a spinning hard drive will have at least 1% failure rate a year, and newer drives aren't getting more reliable

I imagine the best way, from a school's point of view to have e-learning would be to have a locked-in desktop at every desk, with an intranet and then maybe the kids having laptops for homework.

At which point you just install a touch screen in the desks. The device no longer needs to be portable , no longer needs wifi or battery and so should be cheaper and last far longer

Capt'n Midnight · 21-06-2011 10:26pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/17/laptop-reliability-survey-asus-and-toshiba-win-hp-fails/

I would suggest that the higher rate of netbook failure is due to them being bandied about more, also people take less care of cheaper things

you can imagine how kids will treat free devices ?

Noreen1 · 22-06-2011 10:09am

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

I would suggest that the higher rate of netbook failure is due to them being bandied about more, also people take less care of cheaper things

you can imagine how kids will treat free devices ?

Actually, as a long-suffering parent of schoolgoing children, I really hope that neither iPads or Laptops become the norm.

I have visions of endless bills for either replacement or repair.
Realistically, if a unit costing €40 packs up, you replace it. Laptop screens, on the other hand, tend to cost a great deal more than that - and I'm not factoring in the labour repair costs that other parents would have to bear, since I tend to repair my own computers.

I forsee huge problems with screens built into desks being damaged - whether accidently, or on purpose. Likewise, it doesn't take a huge stretch of the imagination to see how deliberately damaging some other childs laptop/netbook/iPad might appeal to bullies, for example.

The only realistic option, that I can see, is to buy a cheap and cheerful tablet.
Anything requiring more computing power, would be better carried out on desktop computers, in a dedicated computer room.

I don't see how anything else would work.
Due to repair costs, too many schools/parents wouldn't be able to afford the technology, assuming the initial purchase price could be found.
Then there's the safety aspect, in some schools/areas, where carrying expensive equipment would actually put children at risk.

thebman · 22-06-2011 4:22pm

fatalll wrote: »

I think IPads like all Apple gear is over priced.
Not sure why they dont use an android device...cheaper
or even a laptop/netbook

Insurance may be a problem and as someone said

...kids dont walk to school anymore so not quite sure why they are coomplaining about the weight issue of books....

I can see lots of issues like theft as well...

It will be interesting to see how it goes anyway

Hey if it doesnt kill you it will make you stronger...

There is a better reason to use Android than price. It is starting to get a proper foot hold in the rugged device market now that Microsoft have abandoned it.

CarnDoh · 08-08-2012 2:46pm

Similarsituation here in Inishowen, Donegal. The Principal is bringing in iPads inSept 2012 for 1st Yrs. Most of the parents I meet are against it. Theones that are buying it are doing it under pressure because they do not wanttheir children to be left out. It is going to cost €750 and so many people herelike everywhere else are out of work and cant afford the €100 household charge,how can we afford this? Does any parentreally want a 12 yr old carrying around something worth €750. Will they bemugged or the iPad stolen? Will they take care of it or just fling their bag onthe ground? Will it be safe at lunchtime, etc.? Could you afford to buy anotherone if damaged or stolen? Sounds like all the eggs in one basket! If theyforget to bring it to school or charge it the night before then their whole dayis wasted. It would also be very easy to “forget” homework. What about theskill of writing? – Will this be lost by a touch screen? I noticed also thatthe book list sent out by the school is deliberately priced higher this yearwith prices 50% up on the price they can get them from the publishers. Obviouslya move to encourage them to buy the iPad! How long will their iPads be aroundbefore it is superseded by the next model? In the classroom it will be the bestnew toy they have ever had and be allowed to use it! – It will be a distractionwith the possibility of contacting other students by emailing, FaceTime, etc.,or doing anything they want do with it, games, etc. Most ebooks only have athree year licence and there are some subjects with no eBooks. To add insult toinjury the Principal has given an iPad to the staff in the school for €100 andthese are people who are working in a job! It sound like he is just doing it asa publicity stunt and has not thought the thing through.

Laminations · 08-08-2012 2:54pm

Well it will provide the modern day replacement for the phrase 'like taking candy from a baby'

Noreen1 · 08-08-2012 3:20pm

CarnDoh wrote: »

Similarsituation here in Inishowen, Donegal. The Principal is bringing in iPads inSept 2012 for 1st Yrs. Most of the parents I meet are against it. Theones that are buying it are doing it under pressure because they do not wanttheir children to be left out. It is going to cost €750 and so many people herelike everywhere else are out of work and cant afford the €100 household charge,how can we afford this? Does any parentreally want a 12 yr old carrying around something worth €750. Will they bemugged or the iPad stolen? Will they take care of it or just fling their bag onthe ground? Will it be safe at lunchtime, etc.? Could you afford to buy anotherone if damaged or stolen? Sounds like all the eggs in one basket! If theyforget to bring it to school or charge it the night before then their whole dayis wasted. It would also be very easy to “forget” homework. What about theskill of writing? – Will this be lost by a touch screen? I noticed also thatthe book list sent out by the school is deliberately priced higher this yearwith prices 50% up on the price they can get them from the publishers. Obviouslya move to encourage them to buy the iPad! How long will their iPads be aroundbefore it is superseded by the next model? In the classroom it will be the bestnew toy they have ever had and be allowed to use it! – It will be a distractionwith the possibility of contacting other students by emailing, FaceTime, etc.,or doing anything they want do with it, games, etc. Most ebooks only have athree year licence and there are some subjects with no eBooks. To add insult toinjury the Principal has given an iPad to the staff in the school for €100 andthese are people who are working in a job! It sound like he is just doing it asa publicity stunt and has not thought the thing through.

Why does it have to be an iPad, though?
Can't the books be read on a Nexus 7?
It's pretty much the same spec. for half the price, so, unless the e-books are in a format that the Nexus 7 can't handle (doubtful! there's bound to be an app. out there somewhere) - then why shell out an extra couple of hundred?

As to the device getting broken - I wonder how the Principal would feel if the parents demanded that the iPad/Nexus should be covered by the schools insurance policy.

I also wonder why the school can't order whatever device is proven to be the most cost-effective, at a bulk discount, and on some form of lease, rather than expecting parents to shell put that kind of money?
I'll have three children in Secondary school this year. If the school even thinks about telling me I have to spend €2,250 on readers, I'm afraid they're going to be subjected to some very hard questions.

bpb101 · 08-08-2012 9:18pm

Well i thinks its such a stupid idea anyways.
reasons
1) What happens if it falls and breaks, -€400 please
2) Robbed/lost- €400 please.
3) you would need 100s of power supply's
4) internet goes down in the school (happens a lot in my school) - no shool
5)i have an iphone and the apps are buggy as fúck
6)can anybody imagaine trying to type 4 A4 on a ipad(if you wanted an assignment typed on it)
7)600 ipads in a school ? how do you know which one is which
8) forgot my password
9)nobody would stay on edco.ie and thats it.
!0) every kid in a school uniform has an €400 ipad.(nobody would mug a kid)

nit pickers do your worst

Capt'n Midnight · 09-08-2012 1:05am

in the news today - mobile phone robberies are up

and ipads would be very easy to convert into money

don't forget that ebooks cost money too
but with good DRM the publishers can kill the second hand market

if you look at India the school books are printed on newsprint - cheap paper. the biggest part of the cost of school books is not the cost of printing them , it's the middle men and margins. if school books were published at cost, and didn't have needlessly revised editions then every child could have two books, one in school locker, one at home - so no need to carry them anywhere

epaper readers with freely available ebooks would be interesting

jimmycrackcorm · 10-08-2012 5:22pm

While the debate rages on about android vs ipads, the real issue is how they can be used. I. E. If only weight replacement is a consideration then an ebook reader like the kindle is best.

However there's much more scope to introduce interactive learning and even if it is based on modern html standards then it neither matters if the device is ipad, android or netbook.

However it seems there is a rush to equip kids with hardware but not look at revolutionary advancing methods of teaching based on the capabilities.

donkey balls · 11-08-2012 12:29am

Was listening to the last word this evening and the subject of using ipads /tablets&e books was been discussed and how they should be cheaper than actual paper books,It turns out that the 23% vat exception is for paper books not ones that you down load so at present there is very little price difference between the two,Also considering there is hardly any costs with e books compared to the paper ones which require warehousing/distribution etc.

amen · 11-08-2012 8:37pm

interesting thread. I know of one secondary school that switched to iPads for all first years 2 year ago.

They have now switched back to paper books. Too many problems with the iPads, students turning up without them, not charged, unoffical apps installed, recording teachers teaching and posting to web, student messaging in class, "lost" and "stolen" iPads. the list goes on.

avalon68 · 12-08-2012 4:37am

Aside from the issues of making kids targets for theft, and breakage/expense issues, I personally fing that the iPad destroys my ability to pay attention. For me it seems to bring out ADD tendencies. I constantly flick between things, without actually taking anything in. I find reading books on it strains my eyes, and runs the battery down pretty quickly. I also dont like the idea of kids having such easy access to internet, youtube all day long. I guess you could prevent connection to the net, but then really - whats the point of an iPad? Almost everything that it does requires an internet connection. Kids would still need copy books to do homework etc. I think iPads would be the worst possible choice tbh. I could maybe accept the larger sized kindle (or similar), to be provided by the school preloaded with relevant books every year, no internet. I feel kids spend enough time in front of screens already - I would rather they had comprehensive computing classes than reading books off screens all day

jay-me · 12-08-2012 6:27am

I agree that based on the khan academy that teaching via electronic methods works great as you can study at your own pace and always recap when you need to.

To all the people saying you can't write using a touchscreen well you can type via usb keyboards which are readily available on many android devices. For handwriting you can use a sylus and an external tablet. Or just put the tablet down for some good old fashioned pen to paper! In relation to power supplies etc, these can be organised in a tidy manner so as they won't interfere with students in the same way computer classes have it and science classes too!

In relation to theft or mishandling, tablets could be kept in the classroom at all times and homework could be done via pen and paper or on handouts etc. The thing I find great about the khan academy and the concept behind it is that you either get it or you don't and it shows if you try and bluff your way through. For those that need extra help there is a place to ask questions and get help from other students in your class and of course the teacher!

Android would be an obvious choice for this due to it being free and open source and the fact that it can be locked down completely so only what has been actually permitted by the school would be available. The hardware could be sourced by the government to be hard wearing so as it isn't easily destroyed. And if access was on an intranet basis it would prevent people from accessing forbidden content on the internet!

I think it would be great for teachers to be able to single out students with difficulties while allowing advanced students move along and great for students because as already mentioned they respond to different stimuli whether it be kinesthetic auditory or visual. And to throw into this mix it is actually great fun using the khan academy as you get badges and things the more you progress which adds a much needed fun element into learning.

Noreen1 · 13-08-2012 6:13pm

avalon68 wrote: »

Aside from the issues of making kids targets for theft, and breakage/expense issues, I personally fing that the iPad destroys my ability to pay attention. For me it seems to bring out ADD tendencies. I constantly flick between things, without actually taking anything in. I find reading books on it strains my eyes, and runs the battery down pretty quickly. I also dont like the idea of kids having such easy access to internet, youtube all day long. I guess you could prevent connection to the net, but then really - whats the point of an iPad? Almost everything that it does requires an internet connection. Kids would still need copy books to do homework etc. I think iPads would be the worst possible choice tbh. I could maybe accept the larger sized kindle (or similar), to be provided by the school preloaded with relevant books every year, no internet. I feel kids spend enough time in front of screens already - I would rather they had comprehensive computing classes than reading books off screens all day

I find myself wondering the same thing - and I keep coming up with the same answer - marketing and more profit for a certain Company.

Let's face it - most kids already have a computer or laptop at home.
For those that don't, a computer or laptop can be bought for less than the price of an iPad.

So, what's wrong with the schools buying sufficient basic computers - or having the parents buy them on some form of leasing arrangement? Each child could get a basic computer (to be stored at school) in first year, and that computer should last the five years. That's the upgrade issue sorted. The child would own the computer at the end of the 5 year period. said computer to be replaced, if necessary, by an incoming first year student.
The school could then arrange multiple licences for e-books, and software (at discounted rates) - and the parents could then pay for the e-books and software.
With cloud computing, all schoolwork could then be accessed either at home, or school.

The advantages of this method would be to spread the initial cost for hard-pressed parents, (say, a yearly, or 6 monthly leasing payment to be made at the start of every year) for hardware.
It would eliminate the need for replacing expensive software, and books, if there was a hardware failure, since the software would remain stored, and licenced, online, as would the childs schoolwork.

It seems to me that it would end up cheaper, in the long and short term, eliminate the risks of theft of a mobile device, and avoid children "forgetting" their iPad/Kindle/Nexus 7 etc.

It's just a thought - but I think it's worth considering, rather than rushing to buy any particular device, because the salesman from Company x,y, or z didn't explain all the available options to any particular school, - or the teacher in question wasn't tech-savvy enough to understand the options -as the case may be.

Actually, come to think of it - some of the practical subjects wouldn't necessarily lend themselves as well to the use of e-books as others. (woodwork springs to mind, for example -whereas technical graphics would, of course, be ideal for computerisation)

So, how would it work if computers were initially purchased for those subjects that lend themselces best to e-learning, such as English, Irish, Languages, Science, and Technical Graphics/Engineering.
It would reduce the initial outlay for hardware, and allow a much more cost-efficient trial phase, rather than having all students invest in hardware that may be scrapped after 2 years, anyway?

marco2011 · 14-08-2012 11:12am

amen wrote: »

interesting thread. I know of one secondary school that switched to iPads for all first years 2 year ago.

They have now switched back to paper books. Too many problems with the iPads, students turning up without them, not charged, unoffical apps installed, recording teachers teaching and posting to web, student messaging in class, "lost" and "stolen" iPads. the list goes on.

Do you know the name of the school who stopped using the devices?

Permabear · 14-08-2012 1:41pm

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marco2011 · 14-08-2012 3:23pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Phones are generally banned during school hours. The issue now is that the Tablet devices are available during class so kids have access during class hours. One major issue we've heard about for Teachers is the recording of their activities during class (when they might not be at their best) and posting to YouTube.

Noreen1 · 14-08-2012 4:17pm

In fairness, they can do that more easily with their smartphones than with a tablet.

I know that most schools don't allow the students their phones during school hours - but I also know that kids can be devious little rascals....

marco2011 · 14-08-2012 4:44pm

Noreen1 wrote: »

In fairness, they can do that more easily with their smartphones than with a tablet.

I know that most schools don't allow the students their phones during school hours - but I also know that kids can be devious little rascals....

I presume there would also be Data Protection issues as other students could also be recorded. The school can have a policy which bans smart phones from class but where the Tablet is on the desk already it would be difficult to know if the recorder was on.

Permabear · 14-08-2012 5:55pm

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thebman · 14-08-2012 10:09pm

I think it is as crap now as I thought it was when first suggested.

Let students use laptops or whatever they want or paper or whatever.

Why insist on iPad's unless you've got some incentive to do so??

Wouldn't send a kid to any school demanding iPad's be bought for numerous reasons.

Kinski · 14-08-2012 11:04pm

Pupils recording teachers and posting the videos to Youtube so the world can judge how they're performing should be allowed, so long as teachers can also record their charges and do likewise.

avalon68 · 15-08-2012 12:40am

Permabear wrote: »

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I dont have kids yet, but when I do, they will not have a data plan unless I can restrict it. What young child eg primary school age, needs a data plan.....seriously?? What a waste of money

bpb101 · 15-08-2012 2:19am

one of the biggest problems for edco or other publishers would be pirating the if they were downloaded books,(not encourage anybody to pirate )

[unless their on the internet but then you have to have the internet, which always goes down in schools ]

Would people still buy exam papers, There free online from the state exam website .

parents are already complaining about the price of school books and some people buy the second hand books,this would be wipped out

However, i do belive, that when you pay 30-35 quid for a book, they should let you have a digital copy for at home if you forget ur book think folands charge the same price again ( could be wrong , mea culpa if so)

{

and finally , last year , so this wont bother me

Shít leaving cert

}

Permabear · 17-08-2012 2:05pm

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Stabshauptmann · 18-08-2012 12:57am

Heard about a school doing this on the radio.

My kindle costs 100eur, and its much better on my eyes than an ipad.

Stabshauptmann · 18-08-2012 1:01am

Permabear wrote: »

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I wouldnt like to be under a microscope at work. It is so easy to twist and manipulate, and to take things out of context. Its rare enough to read a thread on boards where at least one poster hasnt done some selective quoting to make a fine straw man, bad and all as a teacher may be I dont think videoing their every working moment is the right way to rectify it.

In that position, I would stick to reading from the book and dealing with any discipline breach with pawning the kid off on the principal.

MagicMarker · 21-08-2012 12:36pm

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Heard about a school doing this on the radio.

My kindle costs 100eur, and its much better on my eyes than an ipad.

Kindles are pretty much useless when it comes to textbooks.

Replacing School books with Ipads??

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