Is it a good idea for Jack & Jill foundation to promote British Army Band

watchingthepols · 04-09-2012 12:47pm #1

I was surprised to see that the Jack & Jill foundation have become involved with a British Army Band coming to Ireland.

I would have thought that this kind of political gesture would put off some of their supporters and doners?

https://www.jackandjill.ie/how-you-can-help/irish-guards-band/

What do people think ....is it a good or bad idea?

Lemming · 04-09-2012 1:12pm

What you have neglected to add is the following (bold emphasis is mine):

The Jack & Jill Children’s Foundation are delighted to be the beneficiary charity for the Irish Guards Band’s upcoming performance in Ireland. This event which is being organised by the SESIF (Security and Emergency Services Ireland Forum) will be a great follow up to the Queen’s visit and will be one of the pieces of history that will help to cement the new found platform for the relationship between England and Ireland.

This is not the first time the Irish Guards Band has performed here, having teamed up with the Number 1 Irish Army Band in April 2000 for a joint performance in the National Concert Hall, as well as in St. Patrick’s Cathedral and Dublin Castle on that visit.

The Irish Guards are raising money for the Jack & Jill foundation, not the other way around. So what's the problem?

I'm sure we'll have the usual knuckle-dragging troglodites coming in with their biggotted crap, but what is it to you or I if a military band put on a performance to raise money for a non-military charity?

SocSocPol · 04-09-2012 1:25pm

watchingthepols wrote: »

I was surprised to see that the Jack & Jill foundation have become involved with a British Army Band coming to Ireland.

I would have thought that this kind of political gesture would put off some of their supporters and doners?

https://www.jackandjill.ie/how-you-can-help/irish-guards-band/

What do people think ....is it a good or bad idea?

I wouldn't be small minded enough and insecure enough to be put off.

spank_inferno · 04-09-2012 1:32pm

I've no idea OP.

I'm not cripplingly insecure about my nationalism to worry about such matters.

I'm sure the "little Irelanders" have more to worry about than this.

Eggy Baby! · 04-09-2012 3:46pm

I for one welcome this British band.

I've personally always liked military-style music (Red army choir are my favourites) and, as I like to keep my latently burning hatred of everything British seperate from my taste in music, I've no problem with them.

Always good to be exposed to other people's cultures now and again.

I jest when I say I hate the British, btw....

Shea O'Meara · 04-09-2012 4:12pm

It's harmless. Anyhoo, I would consider half of the K club folk british anyway

Godge · 04-09-2012 4:52pm

watchingthepols wrote: »

I was surprised to see that the Jack & Jill foundation have become involved with a British Army Band coming to Ireland.

I would have thought that this kind of political gesture would put off some of their supporters and doners?

https://www.jackandjill.ie/how-you-can-help/irish-guards-band/

What do people think ....is it a good or bad idea?

Wow, that is some stretch of the imagination you have got there. What exactly are you trying to say?

AlekSmart · 04-09-2012 7:49pm

watchingthepols wrote: »

I was surprised to see that the Jack & Jill foundation have become involved with a British Army Band coming to Ireland.

I would have thought that this kind of political gesture would put off some of their supporters and doners?

What do people think ....is it a good or bad idea?

To answer the last question first,YES I personally consider it a GREAT idea.

Looking at some of the children pictured on their site,I find it somewhat difficult to comprehend how this can be viewed as a "Political Gesture"....?

The ability to make THAT connection is IMO,far more worrying to me than the presence of a British Military Band on Irish Soil.

If I was to waffle on about Political Gestures then this one from the J & J News page might be a far more accurate use of the term...

https://www.jackandjill.ie/liam-hall-from-rooskey-is-latest-casualty-of-hse-cuts/

I rather suspect modern Ireland has largely shaken off the introverted small mindedness of our past,and for this particular event I wish the Jack & Jill foundation well in their endeavours

A Dub in Glasgo · 04-09-2012 10:45pm

Wow, they are all out in force today

Lemming · 05-09-2012 12:28am

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Wow, they are all out in force today

/Looks at username. Looks at location.

Quite.

nuac · 08-09-2012 6:00pm

I think this is a great idea. Hope J and J foundation have a good day

Hannibal · 09-09-2012 12:33am

While I personally would support the work that Jack and Jill do, this particular band have a history of drowning teenagers in rivers and battering prisoners.

http://www.anphoblacht.ie

It's the British Armys band of the Irish Guards.

"A 15 year old Iraqi boy, Ahmed Jaber Karhem, drowned after being forced into a canal at gunpoint in May 2003 by Irish Guards on the orders of their officers. The prosecution said that Ahmed, who could not swim was ordered into the Shatt al-Basra canal after allegedly being caught out looting.

Even though a British military court martial found them not guilty of manslaughter, two of the Irish Guards who had being prosecuted resigned from the British Army in disgust at being "scapegoated".

Guardsman Joseph McCleary said afterwards, "We were told to put the looters in the canal, I was the lowest rank and we were always told we weren't paid to think. We just followed orders."

On its website the Jack & Jill proclaims that the Irish Guards were founded to "commemorate outstanding involvement of Irish soldiers in the Boer War". That's the Boer War where the British government invented concentration camps and exterminated 26,000 women and children.

A Dub in Glasgo · 09-09-2012 12:41am

Ah sure that does not matter, that was a legal war you know. These guys are salt of the earth types who would never think of doing stuff as described as all they do is play with their instruments

AlekSmart · 09-09-2012 12:40pm

Dotsey wrote: »

While I personally would support the work that Jack and Jill do.

Hopefully people like Dotsey will express that support through this event,in the same manner as the huge numbers applying to view the USS Fort McHenry somehow managed to suppress their dislike for US foreign policy overall.

Similarly the recent Tall Ships event featured vessels whose sail-training roles actively feed into their respective Countries military apparatus.....If it prevented many folks from enjoying the spectacle then it sure did'nt show on the day.

The reality of structured Human Life itself is of a level of co-existance not always easily achieved.

There is NO Military organization anywhere which does not have "background",something which,given the British Empire's all pervasive influence,is far more prevalent than in,for example,Luxembourg's armed forces.

I suspect that most reasonable people are more than capable of making whatever value judgements they need and acting upon them.

I'm still hoping the Jack and Jill foundation or,more accurately,those children depending upon their help,will get a big result from this event.

I suppose it may well also raise the question of just why we now have entities such as the JJF picking up the slack which our State Services are now unable to do. :mad:

AlekSmart · 09-09-2012 12:59pm

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Ah sure that does not matter, that was a legal war you know. These guys are salt of the earth types who would never think of doing stuff as described as all they do is play with their instruments

Yup,it sure was,and like all wars it tends to be "Legal" only from the victors perspective.

I would in no way try to typify any soldier as anything other than that....a SOLDIER,somebody who'se sole function is to perpetrate violence upon another human being.

The Soldier is trained,motivated and equipped solely for that purpose,even in the Vatican.

It's no different for a member of the Irish Defence Forces,who may well be a grand quiet lad from a good family,but who,at a moments notice will be required to kill,or otherwise disable another human being.

So,would people object to socializing with a Bandsman of the Irish No1. Army Band ?

Would you cross the road to avoid a member of the Reserve Defence Force ?

Would you object to a Royal Navy/RAF search & rescue crew pulling your family members from a capsized fishing-boat,simply because no Irish assets could be found to perform that task ?

The reality is that only the Flag differs,the core value of a Soldier everywhere remains the same.....to carry out all lawfully given orders.

This thread somehow appears to seek out malicious intent then, having supposedly found it,to use the resultant moral indignation to frustrate the basic good of this newly formed allegiance.

Why ?

I can only suggest that it's some form of deep seated insecurity which requires Ireland and its People to forever cower and retreat from new realities,such as our ability to view and appreciate a British Military Musical Spectacle and to support a worthwhile Irish voluntary body at the same time...Is this a step too far ?

pablomakaveli · 09-09-2012 8:30pm

AlekSmart wrote: »

Yup,it sure was,and like all wars it tends to be "Legal" only from the victors perspective.

I would in no way try to typify any soldier as anything other than that....a SOLDIER,somebody who'se sole function is to perpetrate violence upon another human being.

The Soldier is trained,motivated and equipped solely for that purpose,even in the Vatican.

It's no different for a member of the Irish Defence Forces,who may well be a grand quiet lad from a good family,but who,at a moments notice will be required to kill,or otherwise disable another human being.

So,would people object to socializing with a Bandsman of the Irish No1. Army Band ?

Would you cross the road to avoid a member of the Reserve Defence Force ?

Would you object to a Royal Navy/RAF search & rescue crew pulling your family members from a capsized fishing-boat,simply because no Irish assets could be found to perform that task ?

The reality is that only the Flag differs,the core value of a Soldier everywhere remains the same.....to carry out all lawfully given orders.

This thread somehow appears to seek out malicious intent then, having supposedly found it,to use the resultant moral indignation to frustrate the basic good of this newly formed allegiance.

Why ?

I can only suggest that it's some form of deep seated insecurity which requires Ireland and its People to forever cower and retreat from new realities,such as our ability to view and appreciate a British Military Musical Spectacle and to support a worthwhile Irish voluntary body at the same time...Is this a step too far ?

You clearly have very limited view as to what a soldier actually does.

Fratton Fred · 09-09-2012 9:54pm

Dotsey wrote: »

While I personally would support the work that Jack and Jill do, this particular band have a history of drowning teenagers in rivers and battering prisoners.

http://www.anphoblacht.ie

It's the British Armys band of the Irish Guards.

"A 15 year old Iraqi boy, Ahmed Jaber Karhem, drowned after being forced into a canal at gunpoint in May 2003 by Irish Guards on the orders of their officers. The prosecution said that Ahmed, who could not swim was ordered into the Shatt al-Basra canal after allegedly being caught out looting.

Even though a British military court martial found them not guilty of manslaughter, two of the Irish Guards who had being prosecuted resigned from the British Army in disgust at being "scapegoated".

Guardsman Joseph McCleary said afterwards, "We were told to put the looters in the canal, I was the lowest rank and we were always told we weren't paid to think. We just followed orders."

On its website the Jack & Jill proclaims that the Irish Guards were founded to "commemorate outstanding involvement of Irish soldiers in the Boer War". That's the Boer War where the British government invented concentration camps and exterminated 26,000 women and children.

An Phoblacht, always a good source of impartial, unbiased reporting.

AlekSmart · 09-09-2012 11:15pm

pablomakaveli wrote: »

You clearly have very limited view as to what a soldier actually does.

Limited in what way ?

The thread-title asked a question,which on further development appeared to be a loaded one.

More than one poster appears to consider having a British Army Band aiding an Irish charity to be somehow or other unpalatable or worse.

I however,see no great ideological risk attaching to the performance,which I should think will be well supported by a wide variety of the public.

Whether these opponents like it or not,soldiering is a craft based upon overcoming one's opponent,either singularly or en-masse by the use of as much force :eek: as necessary.

The fact that a Military Bandsman may be ordered the following day to lay down a musical instrument and take up an assault rifle is part of the deal.

Is it limited to accept that taking up and using weapons is an intrinsic part of Soldiering ?

Or is it limited to accept the same soldier playing an instrument in a military band ?

If,on the other hand,I'm being asked to view a modern Soldier as essentially a warm-hearted big softy who joined the military to save the rainforest or help downtrodden peasants,then I'm afraid I'll persist within my own limitations.

Is it a good idea for Jack & Jill foundation to promote British Army Band

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