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advice appreciated

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  • 18-04-2014 5:51pm
    #1
    iPearly
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭


    Hi
    friend of mine works for a known retailer for 9 years. She had one sick day in late jan and one in late march. She went to the doctor both times and got sick notes. The sickness lasted for more than one day but because she only got 3 or 4 days that week only missed one rostered day at work.
    today she was called in by the line manager and issued a verbal warning. She was told she can appeal it to manager B within 7 days.

    Surely thats not right but we dont know where to begin.

    Advice appreciated


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    #2
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    iPearly wrote: »
    Hi
    friend of mine works for a known retailer for 9 years. She had one sick day in late jan and one in late march. She went to the doctor both times and got sick notes. The sickness lasted for more than one day but because she only got 3 or 4 days that week only missed one rostered day at work.
    today she was called in by the line manager and issued a verbal warning. She was told she can appeal it to manager B within 7 days.

    Surely thats not right but we dont know where to begin.

    Advice appreciated

    I know in my place 3 absences in a year is considered worthy of a verbal warning. Its probably a similar procedure thats being followed by this company.


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    #3
    iPearly
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭iPearly


    duffman13 wrote: »
    I know in my place 3 absences in a year is considered worthy of a verbal warning. Its probably a similar procedure thats being followed by this company.

    How can someone be punished for being sick? Surely we have no control over it. If it was not certified than I could understand.


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    #4
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,725 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    A sick certificate explains but does not excuse your absence. Or at least that's the way lots of hard-ass employers (especially ones with staff who are inclined to take the p***) see the world.

    If she was punished for being sick, she would have been sacked already.

    A warning just that - a warning, not a punishment. But it's advice that if your friend is not able to fulfil her part of the contract, they will take action.

    Did you know that if you don't turn up at work without telling them, and without good reason, you can be sacked within a very small number of days for "abandonment of employment"?


    If all this makes you think that Irish employment law is quite harsh - then I'd agree with you. If you want to complain about it, go and see your TD.


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    #5
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    iPearly wrote: »
    Hi
    friend of mine works for a known retailer for 9 years. She had one sick day in late jan and one in late march. She went to the doctor both times and got sick notes. The sickness lasted for more than one day but because she only got 3 or 4 days that week only missed one rostered day at work.
    today she was called in by the line manager and issued a verbal warning. She was told she can appeal it to manager B within 7 days.

    Surely thats not right but we dont know where to begin.

    Advice appreciated



    Has she discussed the issue with her Union Rep?


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    #6
    visual
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,268 ✭✭✭visual


    Raise objection asap with higher management as verbal then written and 3rd is dismissal.

    If she followed correct procedure phoned in produced cert then there should be no warning


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    #7
    Eoin
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 21,238 CMod ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    iPearly wrote: »
    How can someone be punished for being sick? Surely we have no control over it. If it was not certified than I could understand.
    visual wrote:
    If she followed correct procedure phoned in produced cert then there should be no warning

    This comes up a bit here. Absence through illness is managed through the disciplinary procedures, even if it's not deliberate misbehaviour / a careless mistake.

    If it continued and she was regularly unavailable for work, then that would be a problem for the company. The company needs to track these issues, and if worst comes to worst, they might need to let that person go as they just can't do the job they've been paid to do - even if it's no fault of their own. And to do that, they should be able to demonstrate a history of warnings.

    Or they could simply think there's a few "duvet days" being taken, and they want to nip it in the bud.
    visual wrote:
    Raise objection asap with higher management as verbal then written and 3rd is dismissal.

    That's not set out in law, they're guidelines. Those are often the steps that are followed, but the number and reasons for the warnings will vary. We don't know that another absence would be another verbal warning or a written one.

    The effect that these warnings will have will vary too. Some companies might not take certain warnings into account when it comes to bonuses, promotions etc - some might.


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    #8
    No Pants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭No Pants


    iPearly wrote: »
    Hi
    friend of mine works for a known retailer for 9 years. She had one sick day in late jan and one in late march. She went to the doctor both times and got sick notes. The sickness lasted for more than one day but because she only got 3 or 4 days that week only missed one rostered day at work.
    today she was called in by the line manager and issued a verbal warning. She was told she can appeal it to manager B within 7 days.

    Surely thats not right but we dont know where to begin.

    Advice appreciated
    What does the company's absence policy state?


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    #9
    Get Real
    Registered Users Posts: 889 ✭✭✭Get Real


    delthedriver wrote: »
    Has she discussed the issue with her Union Rep?

    we don't know if where she works even has a union rep. Do they OP?


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    #10
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »


    If all this makes you think that Irish employment law is quite harsh - then I'd agree with you. If you want to complain about it, go and see your TD.

    If you feel this is harsh, try working in the US where there is no "right to work". Employers expect you to be at work regardless of health/weather/transport etc. if you don't turn up, they can terminate your employment without repercussions. People tend not to miss work.


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    #11
    Nino Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭Nino Brown


    A warning is not a big deal if she doesn't get anymore. The employer needs to keep a record of these things, because I'm sure they've been burned before by people who are constantly calling in sick, as have most employers. Keeping a record of warnings allows them to deal with that.
    So if you're friend was just unfortunate to be ill twice so close together, but will not be taking too many sick days in future there's nothing to worry about, and no real need to escalate the problem. Everybody is happy. If they continue to call in sick, the employer has given themselves a way to deal with it, and rightly so.


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    #12
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭blindsider


    OP - you're saying that your friend was sick 2 days in 3 months? Seems a bit harsh, but could happen. Was your friend told this after the 1st absence? If not, I'd be asking why.

    Also, I'd ask if this is official company policy, and for this to be confirmed in writing - if not already in the employee handbook.

    If this happens across the board then fine, otherwise it's possible victimisation.

    Ask how long the warning remains on file - it should be expunged in 6 months, if no further absences occur.

    BTW - Is this a very large, Irish-owned retailer with an interesting reputation for HR policies and staff treatment (rhymes with Buns)? If so, then I am not at all surprised.


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    #13
    iPearly
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭iPearly


    delthedriver wrote: »
    Has she discussed the issue with her Union Rep?

    The mentioned employer doesn't deal with unions


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    #14
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    iPearly wrote: »
    The mentioned employer doesn't deal with unions



    Suggest your friend consult an Employment Law Specialist.


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    #15
    iPearly
    Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭iPearly


    blindsider wrote: »
    OP - you're saying that your friend was sick 2 days in 3 months? Seems a bit harsh, but could happen. Was your friend told this after the 1st absence? If not, I'd be asking why.

    Also, I'd ask if this is official company policy, and for this to be confirmed in writing - if not already in the employee handbook.

    If this happens across the board then fine, otherwise it's possible victimisation.

    Ask how long the warning remains on file - it should be expunged in 6 months, if no further absences occur.

    BTW - Is this a very large, Irish-owned retailer with an interesting reputation for HR policies and staff treatment (rhymes with Buns)? If so, then I am not at all surprised.

    Sorry for not answering but was actually sick myself

    Bang on. You've got the spot. And to answer the other questions - genuine sick. She has young child which brings all sorts from creche and therefore missed days. The employer is desperate to offload as many employees as possible. Even advertised before last Christmas that they will give redundancy. Guess what -they didn't. Gimmick. Hoped people will make other employment arrangements and leave anyways.


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    #16
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭blindsider


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/dunnes-stores-monitored-staff-suspected-of-stealing-goujons-1.1770261

    Another example of a large company abusing its position.

    *Some companies seem to deliberately target certain employees and treat them badly.

    *I know of one company where the Store Manager has a reputation amongst staff and suppliers for being particularly rude. No action has ever been taken by the company even though he has bullied females many times - he's not quite so brave with males! I didn't believe the rumours until I was unfortunate enough to witness an event a couple of years ago - awful behaviour.

    *I've also heard recently of a company which is deliberately hiring women who are not likely to be planning a family. No childcare issues and no mat leave.

    *This may, or may not be about one company.....


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    #17
    delthedriver
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,958 ✭✭✭delthedriver


    blindsider wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/dunnes-stores-monitored-staff-suspected-of-stealing-goujons-1.1770261

    Another example of a large company abusing its position.

    *Some companies seem to deliberately target certain employees and treat them badly.

    *I know of one company where the Store Manager has a reputation amongst staff and suppliers for being particularly rude. No action has ever been taken by the company even though he has bullied females many times - he's not quite so brave with males! I didn't believe the rumours until I was unfortunate enough to witness an event a couple of years ago - awful behaviour.

    *I've also heard recently of a company which is deliberately hiring women who are not likely to be planning a family. No childcare issues and no mat leave.

    *This may, or may not be about one company.....


    Historically they have always had some issues.


    They always had a preference for gurriers with a bad haircut and a cheap shiny suit to run their Stores who can bark and bully the staff and customers alike.


    Like all things in life I can say I have also met the occasional gentleman and lady running their Branches.


    In todays's economy the Management style would not be limited to the Company referred to in the link.


    This new style of Management is evident across all sectors including Financial Services, Telecoms , IT, call centre operations........the list could go on and on...........!


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    #18
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭blindsider


    Don't disagree Del. Nice people seem to be very much the exception in some companies - but they do exist!

    Until companies (directors and snr management) want to change, we will continue to see the same results.


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    #19
    gugleguy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,959 ✭✭✭gugleguy


    delthedriver wrote: »
    call centre operations.......
    the other notorious suspects here.


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