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Health Questionnaire Recruitment Disaster

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  • 02-04-2014 3:40pm
    #1
    Idontknow1
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭


    A friend of mine recently received a job offer from a top bank in Ireland-Iwon't name them. After accepting the offer someone from HR called her to double check some details on her health form that she had submitted as part of her application. She was asked to confirm her height and weight and was then told what her body mass index was. The relevance of the call was never explained to her. The HR representative continued to say "did you know that you would be considered obese?" She then continued to ask about what sort of exercise regime my friend followed and did she eat healthily etc. My friend was so shocked at these questions she just answered them but became very upset after the phone call. I work in HR and cannot get my head around why this was relevant to the on-boarding process. Has anyone else had this experience and have they been brave enough to ask about the relevance? I assumed it was a hoax call when I heard - its just outrageous! Has anyone else have the same experience or can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why you would take this specific direction with a health form? What an awful recruitment experience.


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    #2
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    It's perfectly logical, the employer is assessing the likelihood of the perspective employee becoming ill and requiring time off work. If I have a choice between employing a healthy fit employee or an overweight employee with potential health issues, I employ the former.


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    #3
    Boldberry
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Boldberry


    These are questions a doctor employed by the company should be asking, if they are that concerned about a potential candidate's fitness they should arrange a medical. An employer is always entitled to make a judgment call on someone's health based on their weight, but there's no way they can be sure that the thinner person is any healthier!


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    #4
    2Mad2BeMad
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭2Mad2BeMad


    Boldberry wrote: »
    These are questions a doctor employed by the company should be asking, if they are that concerned about a potential candidate's fitness they should arrange a medical. An employer is always entitled to make a judgment call on someone's health based on their weight, but there's no way they can be sure that the thinner person is any healthier!

    Obesity is a serious health problem though

    If I was in HR and had too hire 1 person, If their was any medical checks at all before I could make my decision I would always choose the person too least likely have a stroke in work.

    Not having a go at people who are obese but seriously it's a health problem which should be addressed, it shows a poor life style too which that person has chosen which could effect work ethic dramatically, and considering the job above sounds like a desk job that wouldn't help either

    but to answer the op's original post, it sounds like a hoax to me, can't ever imagine them questions been asked over phone, normally their done by form's or medical exams with a company doctor or your own GP. If its not a hoax, well that's really unprofessional of them in my opinion.


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    #5
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭blindsider


    "The HR representative continued to say "did you know that you would be considered obese?"

    And how exactly is the HR Rep qualified to make these observations?

    If the job offer has been made, then the applicant has met the Bank's HR people etc in person. If they felt there was an issue, no offer would have been made.

    I agree that obesity is an issue -they way it was dealt with, in this instance, is the problem.

    OP - if the offer has been made - and accepted - then there should be no issue re the job itself. (If your friend hasn't signed and returned the offer, get her to do so immediately! Deliver by hand if necessary - until she does, they COULD potentially withdraw the offer.)


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    #6
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    blindsider wrote: »
    "The HR representative continued to say "did you know that you would be considered obese?"

    And how exactly is the HR Rep qualified to make these observations?

    If the job offer has been made, then the applicant has met the Bank's HR people etc in person. If they felt there was an issue, no offer would have been made.

    I agree that obesity is an issue -they way it was dealt with, in this instance, is the problem.

    OP - if the offer has been made - and accepted - then there should be no issue re the job itself. (If your friend hasn't signed and returned the offer, get her to do so immediately! Deliver by hand if necessary - until she does, they COULD potentially withdraw the offer.)

    Very easy from a person's weight and height to determine if they are obese, you don't need specific training to do a little math and work out their BMI. And its also understandable why an employer would want to avoid employing them due to the obvious health implications.. And yes a thinner person "could" be sick, but you can be damn sure a person is obese so why take the risk.

    I'd also question the resolve and judgement of someone who allows themselves to become and stay obese, and yes I know people probably think that makes me a bad person, but when your hiring staff you need to get it right, avoid as many potential problem candidates as is possible.


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    #7
    blindsider
    Registered Users Posts: 2,017 ✭✭✭blindsider


    bbam wrote: »
    Very easy from a person's weight and height to determine if they are obese, you don't need specific training to do a little math and work out their BMI.

    I didn't query this - I queried the METHOD.
    And its also understandable why an employer would want to avoid employing them due to the obvious health implications.

    The person was offered the job!

    . And yes a thinner person "could" be sick, but you can be damn sure a person is obese so why take the risk.

    What risk?

    I'd also question the resolve and judgement of someone who allows themselves to become and stay obese, and yes I know people probably think that makes me a bad person, but when your hiring staff you need to get it right, avoid as many potential problem candidates as is possible.

    I'm not saying that obesity is okay - it does raise health issues for individuals - but the way this seems to have been handled seems poor.

    Finally - we don't know id the person in question has serious weight problems, or is a bit 'chunky' - BMI is not perfect in these cases:

    Hence, larger individuals, even if they had exactly the same body shape and relative composition, always have a larger BMI

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index


    Perhaps we shouldn't be so quick to judge.............


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    #8
    Agent_99
    Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭Agent_99


    bbam wrote: »
    Very easy from a person's weight and height to determine if they are obese, you don't need specific training to do a little math and work out their BMI.

    Not necessarily true, Brian O'Driscoll has a BMI of 29 which would be considered overweight to mild obesity. Would you say that to him!!
    Cain Healy is 33 clinically obese.

    Each person would need to be assessed on their overall level of health and fitness by a medical doctor and not by a untrained HR person.


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    #9
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    bbam wrote: »
    Very easy from a person's weight and height to determine if they are obese, you don't need specific training to do a little math and work out their BMI. And its also understandable why an employer would want to avoid employing them due to the obvious health implications.. And yes a thinner person "could" be sick, but you can be damn sure a person is obese so why take the risk.

    I'd also question the resolve and judgement of someone who allows themselves to become and stay obese, and yes I know people probably think that makes me a bad person, but when your hiring staff you need to get it right, avoid as many potential problem candidates as is possible.

    Do you only employ teetotaling non-smoking vegetarians or something?

    What kind of business are you hiring for?


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    #10
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Not necessarily true, Brian O'Driscoll has a BMI of 29 which would be considered overweight to mild obesity. Would you say that to him!!
    Cain Healy is 33 clinically obese.

    Each person would need to be assessed on their overall level of health and fitness by a medical doctor and not by a untrained HR person.

    Right... but that level of athlete represents only a tiny % of the population, for the rest of us BMI is a decent representation, particularly as it hits towards 33 !!


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    #11
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    bbam wrote: »
    Right... but that level of athlete represents only a tiny % of the population, for the rest of us BMI is a decent representation, particularly as it hits towards 33 !!
    agreed, I'd have the opposite problem to the ops "friend", I look very thin but have a bmi of 21

    That sort of questionaire would benefit me, as it would reassure them I am a healthy weight, whereas with the Ops friend, it indicates health issues, given that she is extremely overweight to the point of being classed as obese.

    That would raise flags for me in any employee, they are at increased risk of illness due to their weight, and it is perfectly legimate and legal to question it.


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    #12
    Agent_99
    Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭Agent_99


    The BMI only indicates 2 parameters of a persons stature. There are better indicators like BMR which takes account of age or better again Harris Benedict Formula.
    But the point of the OP was this statement was made by a HR person over the phone and not during a medical by a doctor or even an occupational nurse.


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    #13
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Agent_99 wrote: »
    The BMI only indicates 2 parameters of a persons stature. There are better indicators like BMR which takes account of age or better again Harris Benedict Formula.
    But the point of the OP was this statement was made by a HR person over the phone and not during a medical by a doctor or even an occupational nurse.

    I'd strongly agree with that point.. It was wholly inappropriate.


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    #14
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,502 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    bbam wrote: »
    Very easy from a person's weight and height to determine if they are obese, you don't need specific training to do a little math and work out their BMI.
    bbam wrote: »
    Right... but that level of athlete represents only a tiny % of the population, for the rest of us BMI is a decent representation, particularly as it hits towards 33 !!

    I think you overestimate how suitable BMI is as a measurement. You don't need to be a professional athlete to have a BMI easily in the overweight category or touching 30+ (obese). Nor does having a BMI of 25 mean you are healthy,

    Both the method used and the language used by HR were inappropriate.


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    #15
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Using BMI as a means to determine if someone should get a job is simplistic at best.

    To those here saying someones weight could determine whether you would hire them or not, are you asking your interviewees about how many units of alcohol they consume? How many cigarettes they smoke? If they are on any current medication? Do you ask them to provide details on family medical history? My guess is no.

    The only time a person's weight should come into the equation would be if the position they're applying for involves high levels of physical activity, and where the person's ability to do the job is dependent on their fitness levels.

    Denying a 25 year old (for instance) a job in a call centre (for instance) because they're more likely to "have a stroke" because their BMI is 30 is not only moronic, it's ignorant and discriminatory to boot.


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    #16
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    I presume the job offer wasn't withdrawn after this phone call though? I am not getting the impression it was from the OP's post, but am a little confused.

    If a HR person made a comment like that to me, or enquired after my eating and exercise regime, I would be bl**dy furious too. A doctor appointed by the company is one thing, but otherwise it's no different from the receptionist or the guy who works in accounts telling you that you are a fat cow. HR people are not qualified to make those judgement calls, they are not medical professionals. That's absolutely shocking.


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    #17
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,731 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    The only time a person's weight should come into the equation would be if the position they're applying for involves high levels of physical activity, and where the person's ability to do the job is dependent on their fitness levels.

    There are a number of jobs where physical attractiveness is relevant: receptionists, newsreader, models, fitness consultants. BMI would be a big step uip from the usual criteria used to assess for these roles.


    MagicMarker wrote: »
    Denying a 25 year old (for instance) a job in a call centre (for instance) because they're more likely to "have a stroke" because their BMI is 30 is not only moronic, it's ignorant and discriminatory to boot.

    But it's also totally legal, unless BMI is being used as a proxy for having a disability.


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    #18
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    There are a number of jobs where physical attractiveness is relevant: receptionists, newsreader, models, fitness consultants. BMI would be a big step uip from the usual criteria used to assess for these roles.

    Physical attractiveness is not necessary for any of those jobs, and denying someone a job simply because they're ugly is discriminatory, even if it's not illegal.


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    #19
    Boldberry
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭Boldberry


    Typical HR response, we are covered by the law so even if it's immoral or discrimation it's all ok!


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    #20
    MagicMarker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Boldberry wrote: »
    Typical HR response, we are covered by the law so even if it's immoral or discrimation it's all ok!

    Immoral and discriminatory are by definition not okay.

    Do you think discrimination based on skin colour was okay before if was illegal?


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    #21
    bbam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,410 ✭✭✭bbam


    Boldberry wrote: »
    Typical HR response, we are covered by the law so even if it's immoral or discrimation it's all ok!

    And so you've made a realisation business. No matter what the company don't be fooled into thinking they make all or even any decisions based on morality.

    Businesses make the decisions that best suit them within (often just about within) the legal framework provided.
    This should be of no surprise to anyone going out looking for a job !!


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    #22
    Ray13
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Ray13


    This is very interesting, I am 5 foot 5 inches, in my 40's have a healthy lifestyle, and a cholesterol of 4.3, I weigh just under 8 stone, I do treadmill for three one hour sessions, swim once a week, and walk a lot, some weight training but probably not as much as I should, and my Bmi is 30, I couldn't believe I was being told I was in the obese range! And I went to another gym for assessment as I presumed I wasn't, and they said I had Bmi of 31!


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    #23
    Ray13
    Registered Users Posts: 77 ✭✭Ray13


    Ray13 wrote: »
    This is very interesting, I am 5 foot 5 inches, in my 40's have a healthy lifestyle, and a cholesterol of 4.3, I weigh just under 8 stone, I do treadmill for three one hour sessions, swim once a week, and walk a lot, some weight training but probably not as much as I should, and my Bmi is 30, I couldn't believe I was being told I was in the obese range! And I went to another gym for assessment as I presumed I wasn't, and they said I had Bmi of 31!

    I am constantly full of energy, I get up at 6am, no health issues, I do wonder why I am never tired! But with the energy I have, I need 6 hours restorative sleep at a max. I have done the 'medical' for two jobs and heard nothing back... Hmmm


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    #24
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,502 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    You dont have a bmi of 30.


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    #25
    WildRosie
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 585 ✭✭✭WildRosie


    Ray13 wrote: »
    This is very interesting, I am 5 foot 5 inches, in my 40's have a healthy lifestyle, and a cholesterol of 4.3, I weigh just under 8 stone, I do treadmill for three one hour sessions, swim once a week, and walk a lot, some weight training but probably not as much as I should, and my Bmi is 30, I couldn't believe I was being told I was in the obese range! And I went to another gym for assessment as I presumed I wasn't, and they said I had Bmi of 31!
    Eh, 5'5" and weight of 8 stone (112lbs) is a BMI of under 19...on the border of being underweight...see here...someone has their figures very wrong...to have a BMI of 31 at your height, you'd have to weigh nearly 14 stone!


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    #26
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    I assume the questions about exercise was to determine it the BMI was inaccurate due to muscle and fitness. So they just wanted to check it was accurate.

    A delicate subject but I reckon no matter what you say to somebody the fact they are obese they aren't going to handle it well. Any questions asked after that are just going to feel like judgment

    The harsh reality is appearance and looks do matter in many jobs.


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