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Travel 90 bus tickets

  • 12-02-2009 1:31am
    #1
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭


    What's the deal with the Travel 90 tickets ? I've bought them in town and at the airport - one ticket valid for 90mins (last journey must be validated with the ticket within the 90mins of the first validation). My local shop wants to charge me €18 for a "10journey Travel 90" ticket.

    I've asked and asked and the manager says that that's all Dublin bus do - she had a Dublin Bus rep in and he told her they're the only travel 90 tickets they're selling.

    Is anyone else confused ?I'm in a suburb near Tallaght/M50. Are Dublin Bus trying to only sel these Travel 90 tickets in town/airport and sell the more expensive ones in the cornershop?


Comments

  • #2
    anotherlostie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭anotherlostie


    Your shop is correct. The ticket is valid for 10 journeys at a cost of €1.80 per use. It used to be strip off tickets but now is a single ticket that you present to the validator on each use.

    They are great value once you are paying more than €1.80 for a single journey. My fare is €2.00, the bus is fast and regular, and I have gotten into town, picked something up and got the return bus all for the €1.80. I also know someone who gets into town from where I live and then gets a second bus out to UCD.


  • #3
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    The Travel90 was never sold individually,or if it was then the ticket agent was playing hookey.
    The original mag-stripe card was sold in a book of ten,however the smart card does it all with a single chip.

    It is one of the hidden gems of the Bus Atha Cliath network.

    Take for example somebody living in Newtownmountkennedy and working in the City Centre.
    They can make that return journey using 2 T90 validations for €3.60 when the cash fare is 3.50 EACH WAY....A no-brainer one would imagine......maybe....yet it amazes me how many continue to pay €2.50 and €3.50 Cash every day... :)


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #4
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Cheers guys. The newsagent in the airport opposite the Dublin Bus info desk sells single Travel 90 tickets. going ot the airport tomorrow so I have to wing it on a 2easy (they only had the 2X €1.50 eeekk....)


  • #5
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    They may be clearing out the stock of old tickets.

    The Travel 90 ticket is now a smartcard which holds 10 individual journeys on it.


  • #6
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    They can make that return journey using 2 T90 validations for €3.60 when the cash fare is 3.50 EACH WAY....A no-brainer one would imagine......maybe....yet it amazes me how many continue to pay €2.50 and €3.50 Cash every day... :)

    I'd totally agree. The thing is, DB could do a better job of advertising it. :)


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  • #7
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Paulm17781,You have it in a Nutshell !

    Minister Dempsey has been on a Grande Tour of Irish Media lately attempting to spin "his" Deloitte report on Dublin Bus.

    Notwithstanding the fact that Deloitte could not find any evidence of seriously deficient Dublin Bus management practices of the type alluded to by the Minister,the reports authors did however make some rather interesting comments on the MINISTERS policies in relation to the Fare collection règeime which Dublin Bus is REQUIRED to operate.

    Deloitte recommends either the full REGULATION of ALL fares OR the full DEREGULATION of ALL Fares to replace the current Civil Service controlled cash-fare règieme.
    I note that Mr Dempsey has not referred in any of his reported statements to the Deloitte recommendation re HIS Departments shortcomings in this BASIC issue of Public Transport operation.

    In addition I am aware of Dublin Bus middle management attending local community meetings and wringing their hands about maintaining the level of Expresso departures with such low numbers....this attitude falls outside what I would describe as "management" as it totally fails to admit to the almost non-existent ongoing promotion of what by any standards is a VERY marketable Public Transport OPTION for long-distance commuters.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #8
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    I didn't know that they attacked the fare system so much in that report.

    Typical Dempsey, it's not broken so whinge and make no effort to improve it. He did that in telecoms and now he'll do it to transport.


  • #9
    Heart
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭Heart


    The Travel90 was never sold individually,or if it was then the ticket agent was playing hookey.

    The ticket machines in Dublin Airport sell one Travel 90 ticket for €2.20, this is the only place you can buy 1 single T90 ticket and I presume it was in an effort to try and get less people paying cash on board the bus.

    H


  • #10
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    The Travel90 was never sold individually,or if it was then the ticket agent was playing hookey.
    The original mag-stripe card was sold in a book of ten,however the smart card does it all with a single chip.

    I'm fairly sure I got them as individual tickets in 95/96 back when you could get ten journey tickets


  • #11
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Just hijacking this thread for a moment - I regularly take the bus, but my fare is E1.60. From looking at the Dublin Bus website, I can't find any monthly ticket or smart card that would suit my usage (5 x 2 trips daily).

    I saw an advertisement on Dublin Bus for some monthly tickets, whose name I can't remember, but I can't find them on the Dublin Bus website.

    Does anyone know if there is a better option than paying E1.60 in cash each trip?


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  • #12
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Hmm, they used to sell 2easy tickets for €3 each that would suit you. But it seems they're no longer available. You could try a few shops to see if they still sell them...


  • #13
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 39,783 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Stark wrote: »
    Hmm, they used to sell 2easy tickets for €3 each that would suit you. But it seems they're no longer available. You could try a few shops to see if they still sell them...

    spar on parliment street (sp) still had them last friday, i will be checking again tomorrow.
    i bought 20 of them as they were still selling their old stock!
    4 weeks worth for me, so saved a few bob and dont have to worry about exact fare at all!


  • #14
    athtrasna
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,420 ✭✭✭✭athtrasna


    I don't like the new Travel 90 at all, as a non-regular bus user. With the old ones you could give them to multiple people - ideal if we had houseguests and wanted to get the bus into town. Now it's all on one card which I'm likely to lose before I've made 10 90 minute journeys.

    There was a time when I used the bus all the time but they were just too unreliable and I had to switch to the car.


  • #15
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    dudara wrote: »
    Just hijacking this thread for a moment - I regularly take the bus, but my fare is E1.60. From looking at the Dublin Bus website, I can't find any monthly ticket or smart card that would suit my usage (5 x 2 trips daily).

    I saw an advertisement on Dublin Bus for some monthly tickets, whose name I can't remember, but I can't find them on the Dublin Bus website.

    Does anyone know if there is a better option than paying E1.60 in cash each trip?
    Stark wrote: »
    Hmm, they used to sell 2easy tickets for €3 each that would suit you. But it seems they're no longer available. You could try a few shops to see if they still sell them...
    athtrasna wrote: »
    I don't like the new Travel 90 at all, as a non-regular bus user. With the old ones you could give them to multiple people - ideal if we had houseguests and wanted to get the bus into town. Now it's all on one card which I'm likely to lose before I've made 10 90 minute journeys.

    There was a time when I used the bus all the time but they were just too unreliable and I had to switch to the car.


    I think most people are angry at Dublin Bus at the minute. I don't like their smart cards for one second. In the UK private companies want to tie their users/customers down to these type of tickets and they do that by charging insane prices for single fares. I hate it to be honest. Dublin Bus is apublic service that should be owned and operated by the public.


  • #16
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    I think most people are angry at Dublin Bus at the minute. I don't like their smart cards for one second. In the UK private companies want to tie their users/customers down to these type of tickets and they do that by charging insane prices for single fares. I hate it to be honest. Dublin Bus is apublic service that should be owned and operated by the public.

    I can't speak for other cities but TfL charge insane prices to single cash fares to stop people paying cash. It's expensive and slow and holds everyone else up. It's entirely possible to own a smartcard in London and not have it registered.


  • #17
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Travel90 should be the base ticket for all Dublin Bus services (and maybe all Dublin public transport in general). They should put parking-meter type machines at the bus stops just selling individual Travel90s for (say) €2 and scrap cash fares altogether. The cash fare system is an over-complicated mess and causes a lot of delays when people are boarding the bus. </my2cents>


  • #18
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    markpb wrote: »
    I can't speak for other cities but TfL charge insane prices to single cash fares to stop people paying cash. It's expensive and slow and holds everyone else up. It's entirely possible to own a smartcard in London and not have it registered.

    Tfl ??
    In Glasgow First Travel charge £1.50 for a single and £3.20 for an all day ticket with a "return" being about £2.85.

    Considering that most of the UK's prices would have refered to when the Sterling was strong, convert these fares using the €1 = £.65 exchange rate
    loyatemu wrote: »
    Travel90 should be the base ticket for all Dublin Bus services (and maybe all Dublin public transport in general). They should put parking-meter type machines at the bus stops just selling individual Travel90s for (say) €2 and scrap cash fares altogether. The cash fare system is an over-complicated mess and causes a lot of delays when people are boarding the bus. </my2cents>

    The cash fare system may seem a bit messy but any sort of uniform blanket fare and/or card system basically cuts out casual users of the bus and no one should ever be cut out. I appreciate there's people who get it everyday and want it to run smoothly. Some people get on my 150 bus at St Patricks Cathedral and the bleedin bus terminates at Doyles Corner!!


  • #19
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    Tfl ??
    The cash fare system may seem a bit messy but any sort of uniform blanket fare and/or card system basically cuts out casual users of the bus and no one should ever be cut out. I appreciate there's people who get it everyday and want it to run smoothly. Some people get on my 150 bus at St Patricks Cathedral and the bleedin bus terminates at Doyles Corner!!

    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves? Just have it vend out 90 minute tickets for €2 (no change given, no change receipts, just take it or leave it)? This way, you give a bonus to those who purchase the tickets in advance (€18 for 10), have a simple 1-coin approach for those who didn't get their tickets in advance, and get rid of the stages rubbish that makes it so difficult to figure out how much it costs? Personally I use an annual bus&rail ticket, so it doesn't affect me that much, except that the queues would run a lot quicker, and if/when friends ask me how much the fare costs, a simple answer of €2 is a lot easier than trying to guess the current system! For those who think €2 is too much for the really short journeys - if you're disabled / old, you get a free travel pass, so won't be affected, and if you aren't - then if your journey is that short, just walk?


  • #20
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves? Just have it vend out 90 minute tickets for €2 (no change given, no change receipts, just take it or leave it)? This way, you give a bonus to those who purchase the tickets in advance (€18 for 10), have a simple 1-coin approach for those who didn't get their tickets in advance, and get rid of the stages rubbish that makes it so difficult to figure out how much it costs? Personally I use an annual bus&rail ticket, so it doesn't affect me that much, except that the queues would run a lot quicker, and if/when friends ask me how much the fare costs, a simple answer of €2 is a lot easier than trying to guess the current system! For those who think €2 is too much for the really short journeys - if you're disabled / old, you get a free travel pass, so won't be affected, and if you aren't - then if your journey is that short, just walk?

    exactly - though I think having the machines at the stops would be preferable, otherwise you would have casual users getting on, fumbling for change, trying to figure out the machine etc and at busy stops this could cause a queue. Better to have all this happen before they get on the bus, then they just have to wave the ticket at the sensor.

    Whenever people mention ticket machines, they think of the complicated computerised behemoths used by Irish Rail and the Luas but if you're only vending one type of ticket the machines can be very simple - it would also present an opportunity to rationalise some of the bus stops (too many, too close together).


  • #21
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves? Just have it vend out 90 minute tickets for €2 (no change given, no change receipts, just take it or leave it)? This way, you give a bonus to those who purchase the tickets in advance (€18 for 10), have a simple 1-coin approach for those who didn't get their tickets in advance, and get rid of the stages rubbish that makes it so difficult to figure out how much it costs? Personally I use an annual bus&rail ticket, so it doesn't affect me that much, except that the queues would run a lot quicker, and if/when friends ask me how much the fare costs, a simple answer of €2 is a lot easier than trying to guess the current system! For those who think €2 is too much for the really short journeys - if you're disabled / old, you get a free travel pass, so won't be affected, and if you aren't - then if your journey is that short, just walk?

    I half agree and half don't. Dublin bus should issue a 90 minute rambler as standard. No more "pay per bus". I think they should do as London does and have ticket machines at bus stops. I am also not against charging higher fares for cash as cash transactions cause too much delay. "How much to <place>?" and then root through change. I used to always get 1.80 in change out before the bus arrived so I could cover any fare, sadly most people don't do this.


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  • #22
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    loyatemu wrote: »

    Whenever people mention ticket machines, they think of the complicated computerised behemoths used by Irish Rail and the Luas but if you're only vending one type of ticket the machines can be very simple - it would also present an opportunity to rationalise some of the bus stops (too many, too close together).

    I'm not afraid of ticket machines :)
    I agree that there's too many bus stops too close together. To be honest Dublin Bus needs to be revolutionised, not just a few knee jerk reactions here and there. The whole thing needs redoing.


  • #23
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    loyatemu wrote: »
    exactly - though I think having the machines at the stops would be preferable, otherwise you would have casual users getting on, fumbling for change, trying to figure out the machine etc and at busy stops this could cause a queue. Better to have all this happen before they get on the bus, then they just have to wave the ticket at the sensor.

    Whenever people mention ticket machines, they think of the complicated computerised behemoths used by Irish Rail and the Luas but if you're only vending one type of ticket the machines can be very simple - it would also present an opportunity to rationalise some of the bus stops (too many, too close together).

    Yes, having them at the stops would be preferable, unfortunately I don't trust the people of this fine nation to not trash them in a drunken stupor :mad: Can you imagine the state of one of those machines in the middle of Tallaght?

    I agree though, the machines should be equivalent to the condom machines in pubs :)


  • #24
    dudara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,518 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    But why don't Dublin Bus operate a smart card a la Luas. Tag on, tag-off and you're charged accordingly.

    But I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Dublin Bus couldn't find their own arses, never mind trying to manage a large fleet of buses and deliver anything approaching an efficient service.


  • #25
    anotherlostie
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,722 ✭✭✭anotherlostie


    TfL, Transport for London, has the right idea with the Oyster Card. The fares are so much lower using this card, and you don't need it to be registered (although it helps if it's lost). Before Christmas, fares were £1.50 on tube using Oyster, compared to £3.50/£4 cash, and 90p on bus compared to £2 cash. And if you exceed the daily 'rambler' ticket charge, it charges you no more than that. If that's not incentive to get one, I don't know what is. My other half is working over there at the moment and I have saved a fortune with my unregistered card!

    I agree totally that a single Transfer 90 ticket fare would be a worthy midterm solution and save so much time with buses delayed picking up passengers.


  • #26
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    dudara wrote: »
    But why don't Dublin Bus operate a smart card a la Luas. Tag on, tag-off and you're charged accordingly.

    But I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that Dublin Bus couldn't find their own arses, never mind trying to manage a large fleet of buses and deliver anything approaching an efficient service.

    My understanding is that the department of transport would only allow them sell smart card tickets that exactly replaced existing tickets. They don't want any other smart card products because the RPA are procuring one for everyone.


  • #27
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    I think the fact that you have to buy 10 "travel 90" tickets can put many off. If they were sold in shops for €1.80 and advertised properly (the amount of people I've explained the benefit of this ticket to is unreal) then it would be a success and I think Travel 90 could be the biggest selling ticket for the company.

    Look at Luas. Everybody uses the on street ticket machine without any problems. What is stopping Dublin Bus installing 2 or 3 machines on busy streets in the city centre? If O'Connell Street, Dame Street, Westmoreland Street and College Green became cashless areas and passengers had to pre-purchase a travel 90 ticket at the nearby machine, then it would speed up boarding times immensely in these areas and allow buses move much quicker cross city.


  • #28
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,107 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Yes, having them at the stops would be preferable, unfortunately I don't trust the people of this fine nation to not trash them in a drunken stupor :mad: Can you imagine the state of one of those machines in the middle of Tallaght?

    parking meter machines seem to survive quite well in towns all over the country, they're generally solar powered these days too. Stick a gsm device in them so they can report back to base when they're running low on tickets, or are out of order. If the standard ticket is €2 then they don't need to issue change either.

    The benefits of this would be enormous - as Alan says though, it needs to be accompanied by a ground-up retooling of the entire network. Far too many meandering, legacy routes, route duplication, too many stops. If you were designing a bus network for Dublin today, only a maniac would choose the one we currently have....


  • #29
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    My understanding is that the department of transport would only allow them sell smart card tickets that exactly replaced existing tickets. They don't want any other smart card products because the RPA are procuring one for everyone.


    Yes indeed,as markpb says,this "Procurement" process was referred to by Minister Dempsey last week on RTE Radio 1`s News at One prog.

    Taking full advantage of a compliant disinterested interviewer Mr D got to waffle on about Sustainable Initiatives and even got to praise the "Work" of the Integrated Ticketing Group which he described as having been set up 3 years ago and which,with luck would have it`s first product on the shelves by Q4 2010.

    So even though Dublin Bus has a system up and running,it is specifically precluded from introducing any NEW iniatives in order to facilitate the Ministers Pal`s.

    It should be noted that the Deloitte report DID make reference to this aspect of Dublin Bus operations in its report,but Mr Dempsey appears to be unaware of that page....
    I agree totally that a single Transfer 90 ticket fare would be a worthy midterm solution and save so much time with buses delayed picking up passengers.

    This could be done NOW and it should be done NOW....however this is TOTALLY a reserved function of the Minister for Transport and it would appear that he prefers the traditional methods best.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #30
    Polar101
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,896 ✭✭✭Polar101


    maggy_thatcher wrote: »
    Why not put the ticket machine on the buses themselves?

    Because it would be exactly the same as buying the ticket from the driver - the worst prepaid ticket in the world.

    Also, having ticket machines at every bus stop would also make no sense - there are too many bus stops, so the cost would be astronomical. Even if some stops were removed, it still wouldn't work very well.

    No need to try and come up with anything too complex - make the price of a driver issued ticket more expensive, and offer a good smartcard solution that people will want to use instead. It works in many other European cities.


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  • #31
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Some more changes: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055489181


  • #32
    Metrobest
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,042 ✭✭✭Metrobest


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Because it would be exactly the same as buying the ticket from the driver - the worst prepaid ticket in the world.

    Also, having ticket machines at every bus stop would also make no sense - there are too many bus stops, so the cost would be astronomical. Even if some stops were removed, it still wouldn't work very well.

    No need to try and come up with anything too complex - make the price of a driver issued ticket more expensive, and offer a good smartcard solution that people will want to use instead. It works in many other European cities.

    The pre-pay only solution is increasingly being seen as the optimum way to reduce dwell times at stops. Stockholm is one of the latest cities to adopt this systems. At busy stops, machines sell tickets.

    That might be too drastic a solution for Dubliners to adapt to.

    I like the idea of a simple zone fare system that everyone can understand. But the key is to make the pre-pay option cheaper in every case than paying cash on board the bus. Dublin Bus, thanks to its dreadful management, has yet to catch on to this simple logic. Instead, it blames traffic congestion for slowing down its buses, rather than its own awful fare structure that incentivises passengers to pay cash on board the bus because pre-pay saving are minimal or, in some cases, even a false economy.


  • #33
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Metrobest wrote: »
    I like the idea of a simple zone fare system that everyone can understand. But the key is to make the pre-pay option cheaper in every case than paying cash on board the bus. Dublin Bus, thanks to its dreadful management, has yet to catch on to this simple logic.
    Dublin Bus want to move to simpler fares, but are prevented from doing so by the department, who don't want to see the price of a single fare to increase because they feel it would nake them look bad.


  • #34
    monument
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 14,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭monument


    athtrasna wrote: »
    I don't like the new Travel 90 at all, as a non-regular bus user. With the old ones you could give them to multiple people - ideal if we had houseguests and wanted to get the bus into town. Now it's all on one card which I'm likely to lose before I've made 10 90 minute journeys.

    There was a time when I used the bus all the time but they were just too unreliable and I had to switch to the car.

    Surely you don't have the same problem with credit cards, bank cards, ID etc? Or even car keys?


  • #35
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    If the College Green bus gate gets approval, then Dublin Bus should be forced into making the city centre a cashless zone. It makes no sense having a bus only gate only to have a tri-axel on the 10 and a bendi bus on the 4 blocking the road at Lr. Grafton Street for 5 minutes while passengers carefully drop coinage into a red container through a small slot. There are two smart card scanners on every bus, let's use them!

    Put machines on the centre of O'Connell Street, Westmoreland Street, D'olier Street and College Green. These machines sell Travel 90 tickets at €2. Have proper instructions on bus stops directing passengers to these machines. I can guarantee within a month, people will be used to the system and passengers will soon discover the benefits of a Travel 90 ticket.

    The recent Deloitte report showed how long it took a bus to cross the city centre. Dublin Bus need to help with this. It's not just about bus priority, but eliminating buses sitting at stops for ridiculous lengths of time.


  • #36
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    But the key is to make the pre-pay option cheaper in every case than paying cash on board the bus. Dublin Bus, thanks to its dreadful management, has yet to catch on to this simple logic. Instead, it blames traffic congestion for slowing down its buses, rather than its own awful fare structure that incentivises passengers to pay cash on board the bus because pre-pay saving are minimal or, in some cases, even a false economy.

    It should be noted,again,that the Deloitte Report also took issue with the Department of Transport`s current fascination for maintaining a rigid grip on Dublin Bus`s Cash Fare system.

    The report recommends that the DEPARTMENT either Regulate or Deregulate ALL of the Fare System rather than simply maintaining close control on the cash transaction element.

    Oddly enough Minister Dempsey has had little to say about THAT particular point of the Report. :eek:

    I would also remind posters that Dublin Bus already had a trial of two Ticket Vending Machines,supplied by Almex at D`Olier St and The College Wall (15/A Stop)

    The machines were simple single ticket vending units and lasted for little more than a couple of months.
    They were eventually removed after proving impossible to keep in working order.
    Being stuffed with Superglue,Excrement,Urine,Litter and finally being doused in Petrol and set on fire finally saw off the infernal things.

    ( Ask yourself where the nearest source of petrol to College Green is to get a feel for just how inventive the average Dublin Bud can be when his patch is threatened)

    Again in relation to securing REAL improvements to our Public Bus Service it needs to be realized that Minister Dempsey and his remarkably Dickensian Department bear a substantial responsibility which equals if not exceeds any borne directly by Dublin Bus.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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  • #37
    KC61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭KC61


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    But the key is to make the pre-pay option cheaper in every case than paying cash on board the bus. Dublin Bus, thanks to its dreadful management, has yet to catch on to this simple logic. Instead, it blames traffic congestion for slowing down its buses, rather than its own awful fare structure that incentivises passengers to pay cash on board the bus because pre-pay saving are minimal or, in some cases, even a false economy.

    It should be noted,again,that the Deloitte Report also took issue with the Department of Transport`s current fascination for maintaining a rigid grip on Dublin Bus`s Cash Fare system.

    The report recommends that the DEPARTMENT either Regulate or Deregulate ALL of the Fare System rather than simply maintaining close control on the cash transaction element.

    Oddly enough Minister Dempsey has had little to say about THAT particular point of the Report. :eek:

    I would also remind posters that Dublin Bus already had a trial of two Ticket Vending Machines,supplied by Almex at D`Olier St and The College Wall (15/A Stop)

    The machines were simple single ticket vending units and lasted for little more than a couple of months.
    They were eventually removed after proving impossible to keep in working order.
    Being stuffed with Superglue,Excrement,Urine,Litter and finally being doused in Petrol and set on fire finally saw off the infernal things.

    ( Ask yourself where the nearest source of petrol to College Green is to get a feel for just how inventive the average Dublin Bud can be when his patch is threatened)

    Again in relation to securing REAL improvements to our Public Bus Service it needs to be realized that Minister Dempsey and his remarkably Dickensian Department bear a substantial responsibility which equals if not exceeds any borne directly by Dublin Bus.

    Post of the year on Dublin Bus services Alek!!

    You sum it up perfectly.

    I also noted that the Minister has been very careful to ignore the piece criticising the Department.


  • #38
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    Victor wrote: »
    Dublin Bus want to move to simpler fares, but are prevented from doing so by the department, who don't want to see the price of a single fare to increase because they feel it would nake them look bad.

    And rightfully so, it does look bad, you're penalising people who only use the bus maybe twice a week and use coins to do so.


    I'm in Glasgow atm and their buses completely cut out anyone not using it everyday. Their fares are structured so it's "cheaper" to buy an all day ticket - £3.20 . Because they're all private companies they want to get you tied to a fixed ticket that you pay money for up front so many people have weekly tickets. This then of course limits you to the one bus company.


    With regards "exact time schedules" ..
    This is also a rubbish idea - over here the driver will wait at a bus stop for the bus to get "synched" up to the timetable time that the bus is supposed to be at that stop. Dublin's just too conjested to do this I think. And would it not bother you sitting on a bus at a stop waiting up to 2minutes at a time even when there's no traffic ?


  • #39
    maggy_thatcher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,056 ✭✭✭maggy_thatcher


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    With regards "exact time schedules" ..
    This is also a rubbish idea - over here the driver will wait at a bus stop for the bus to get "synched" up to the timetable time that the bus is supposed to be at that stop. Dublin's just too conjested to do this I think. And would it not bother you sitting on a bus at a stop waiting up to 2minutes at a time even when there's no traffic ?

    Not everyone gets on at the terminus -- as an example, I went to get the second last 29A out of town there a week ago. It leaves town at 23:00, but I wanted to get it from Killester. According to the timetable, it would take 25 minutes to get there from town. As such, I went out to the stop at 23:10 -- figured just in case it showed up "really" early...no sign of the bus...had to wait until 23:40, at which point the last bus finally arrived. Ideally the bus would have a more accurate timetable showing how variable the journey length is! Are you proposing anybody getting on further up the line should just make sure to be out at the time it leaves the terminus and wait for it, regardless of how far away that is, or should somehow know that when the timetable says "25 minutes", that's only at certain times of the day, it could be anywhere from 8 minutes to 45 minutes depending on circumstances?


  • #40
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    In Manchester they have (nasty looking) people with stop watches and clocks enforcing strict timetables.

    I'd like some sort of happy medium. There's no senior Dublin Bus staff (inspectors?) at bus stops after a certain time as far as I know. Someone should be making sure that they leave their start point at the proper time.

    I just don't want Dublin Bus going down the nazi route.


  • #41
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,034 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    I just don't want Dublin Bus going down the nazi route.

    Special hire buses to concentration camps?


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  • #42
    Alun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,487 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    alan dunne 27 wrote: »
    In Manchester they have (nasty looking) people with stop watches and clocks enforcing strict timetables.

    I'd like some sort of happy medium.
    :confused:

    I don't get it ... what's wrong with strictly enforcing timetables?


  • #43
    Red Sleeping Beauty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,443 ✭✭✭Red Sleeping Beauty


    If the traffic's light then the buses will have to wait at the bus stop to catch up to the timetable and Dublin is very conjested, people fumbling with coins and asking how much it costs to get to wherever does waste time but it happens in the UK as well where there's fixed tickets


  • #44
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Back in the day,Dublin Bus had,in conjunction with Dublin Corporation and the Dept of the Environment developed a system called Selective Bus Detection (SBD).

    This system utilized a Transponder on each bus which was scanned by a reader mounted on the approach to a junction.
    Originally it was linked to Dublin Buses Automatic Vehicle Monitoring system which was then in existance.
    SBD worked quite well and was capable of further development to allow for Lenthtening of the Red signal phase to delay buses running ahead of scheduled time in addition to the advancing and lengthening of the Green signal phase.

    Not surprisingly,both systems were discontinued,not because they did`nt work,but because the Department withdrew funding for any further development a decision which had far reaching ramifications as Dublin Bus had already begun the disassembly of the Functioning AVM only then to be left high and dry without the funding for the anticipated digital replacement.

    For those interested in the hardware,I believe some of the on-street units are still in place abandoned on lamp posts,one on the approach to the Belgard Road/Cookstown Rd junction and another on the Kimmage Road West approach to KCR.

    Thats all in the past now however and it would be absolutely pointless asking the current Minister For Transport about it as he is remarkably ill informed about ANY aspect of his brief.....especially the Deloitte Report which it appears he has not Fully read either....:rolleyes:


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • #45
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Alek, is this what the cityspeed (cityswift?) buses were supposed to use?


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