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"The Origin of Specious Nonsense"

1…5455575960…201

Comments

  • #2802
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    But if you actually read the bible it says otherwise.

    The had no concept of good or evil or death, cause that's how God built them.

    God said that they would die if the eat the fruit, so not only could they not understand what that was, it turned out not to be true as they didn't actually die. Had God forgiven them for his cock up, they would have been able to live forever in the garden according to the bible.

    But, you don't have to be a parody anymore JC, we know you find these beliefs as stupid as we do.
    They freely chose to defy God and to believe Satan's lies ... and they thereby became mortal ... just like God told them they would.


  • #2803
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    They freely chose to defy God and to believe Satan's lies ... and they thereby became mortal ... just like God told them they would.

    But that's not what's in the bible.
    It wasn't Satan it was a talking snake.
    And it didn't lie, God did.
    God never said anything about becoming mortal or "spiritual death".
    God didn't give them the ability to be able to judge right or wrong or to understand what death is. Nor had they ever encountered the concept of "lying".
    And on top of this, not only did God allow all this, he also failed to warn the two about the snake he must have known about and also chose that moment to not be all knowing and all powerful and didn't intervene when the snake was corrupting his creation.
    So how could that actually be a free choice?
    And if it was why did he punish us for making a free choice he gave us?

    But then you have no answer for this because you are only pretending to be a christian to troll.


  • #2804
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    Is there a way I can make a thread 'invisible'. This garbage thread keeps popping back. It now has the second-most views on this forum.. and I know it'll keep going if people keep responding to JC.


  • #2805
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    liamw wrote: »
    Is there a way I can make a thread 'invisible'. This garbage thread keeps popping back. It now has the second-most views on this forum.. and I know it'll keep going if people keep responding to JC.

    I think the thread has probably run it's course at this stage. The book which spawned it is old news and the argument about the subject matter of the book has also run dry. Could we at least re-name it "JC's Super Soapbox Corner" or something mods?


  • #2806
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    liamw wrote: »
    Is there a way I can make a thread 'invisible'. This garbage thread keeps popping back. It now has the second-most views on this forum.. and I know it'll keep going if people keep responding to JC.
    ... the truth will set you free!!!


  • #2807
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    Jeesh this thread has become a mess, I thought we were discussing evolution
    not "christian" nonsense, I don't think this thread should be closed but a
    catchy name like "JC's corner" or "Token creationist thread" is in order seeing
    as we're not discussing anything but religion.


  • #2808
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    But that's not what's in the bible.
    It wasn't Satan it was a talking snake.
    It was Satan possessing the Snake.

    And it didn't lie, God did.
    God never said anything about becoming mortal or "spiritual death".
    God told them clearly that they would surely die if they were to consort with Satan and his system of occult knowledge of good and evil.

    God didn't give them the ability to be able to judge right or wrong or to understand what death is. Nor had they ever encountered the concept of "lying".
    Adam and Eve were perfectly created and therefore perfectly intelligent - so they knew exactly what they were doing - but they hoped that God didn't say what He meant ... and meant what He said.

    And on top of this, not only did God allow all this, he also failed to warn the two about the snake he must have known about and also chose that moment to not be all knowing and all powerful and didn't intervene when the snake was corrupting his creation.
    He told them exactly what would happen if they abused their free will ... and warned them about having anything to do with Satan's occult 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil'.

    So how could that actually be a free choice?
    And if it was why did he punish us for making a free choice he gave us?
    Receiving the logical results of your actions isn't punishment ... it good when you choose good ... and bad when you choose evil
    .


  • #2809
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    But they weren't perfectly created nor perfectly intelligent because if they
    were prefectly intelligent they would be intelligent enough to know that god
    meant what he said, so they weren't perfectly intelligent which means they
    weren't perfectly created.

    Jeesh it's so easy to get sucked in to this nonsense :pac:


  • #2810
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    Jeesh this thread has become a mess, I thought we were discussing evolution
    not "christian" nonsense, I don't think this thread should be closed but a
    catchy name like "JC's corner" or "Token creationist thread" is in order seeing
    as we're not discussing anything but religion.
    ... it could also be renamed an 'Atheist Soap-box'!!!:)


  • #2811
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    sponsoredwalk wrote: »
    But they weren't perfectly created nor perfectly intelligent because if they
    were prefectly intelligent they would be intelligent enough to know that god
    meant what he said, so they weren't perfectly intelligent which means they
    weren't perfectly created.
    ... they were very intelligent ... but they chose to not be very wise!!!


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  • #2812
    keppler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 389 ✭✭keppler


    J C wrote: »
    ... they were very intelligent ... but they were not very wise!!!

    I dont remember the book of genesis mentioning Adam & Eve's IQ.


  • #2813
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    [/COLOR].

    And absolutely none of those points are actually in the bible or make a lick of sense.

    Why would God just leave "Satan's Occult Tree" just lying around?

    But come one JC, you're not even being a good parody anymore.


  • #2814
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    keppler wrote: »
    I dont remember the book of genesis mentioning Adam & Eve's IQ.
    Man was created in the perfect image of a perfect God.
    ... so they would have had the highest possible IQ ... somewhere to the north of 200 !!!!


  • #2815
    sponsoredwalk
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,038 ✭✭✭sponsoredwalk


    J C wrote: »
    ... they were very intelligent ... but they chose to not be very wise!!!

    You're making sh*t up, where in the bible does it say this?


  • #2816
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    And absolutely none of those points are actually in the bible or make a lick of sense.

    Why would God just leave "Satan's Occult Tree" just lying around?
    ... for the same reason He left Satan lying around ... because He created Satan with free will as well.


  • #2817
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    ... for the same reason He left Satan lying around ... because He created Satan with free will as well.
    Oh yea... that makes so much sense now.
    He just set them up to fail his test.

    But come on JC, you know real Christians are that dumb. You're going to have to try harder.


  • #2818
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    Oh yea... that makes so much sense now.
    He just set them up to fail his test.

    But come on JC, you know real Christians are that dumb. You're going to have to try harder.
    ... God couldn't logically grant Adam & Eve free will ... and then turn around and 'control freak' every action they took.

    ... with free will comes responsiblity for your actions ... it's also the basis of our current secular legal system.

    ... so why do you whinge about the punishment of Adam and Eve's horrific sin ... while presumably maintaining that everybody must bear responsibility for their actions in relation to everything from a parking fine to murder????
    ... do I detect a degree of hypocracy in your beliefs in relation to God????


  • #2819
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    ... God couldn't logically grant Adam & Eve free will ... and then turn around and 'control freak' every action they took.

    ... with free will comes responsiblity for your actions ... it's also the basis of our current secular legal system.

    ... so why do you whinge about the punishment of Adam and Eve's horrific sin ... while presumably maintaining that everybody must bear responsibility for their actions in relation to everything from a parking fine to murder????
    ... do I detect a degree of hypocracy in your beliefs in relation to God????
    But the thing is going by the story in the bible, Adam and Eve were no more responsible for their actions than a baby who drinks bleach after their parent left it open on the floor next to them.

    All these justifications you're adding and pretending to believe aren't in the bible.

    Seriously JC, drop the act you haven't been fooling anyone and you're just making yourself look sad.


  • #2820
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    strobe wrote: »
    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was Us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.
    ... you have a good point there ... about how Evolutionists think!!:pac:


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  • #2821
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    But the thing is going by the story in the bible, Adam and Eve were no more responsible for their actions than a baby who drinks bleach after their parent left it open on the floor next to them.

    All these justifications you're adding and pretending to believe aren't in the bible.

    Seriously JC, drop the act you haven't been fooling anyone and you're just making yourself look sad.
    ... except Adam & Eve weren't babies ... they were perfectly created highly intelligent adult Human Beings.

    ... so why do you whinge about the punishment of Adam and Eve's horrific sin against their loving Creator ... while presumably maintaining that everybody must bear responsibility for their actions in relation to everything from a parking fine to murder????
    ... do I detect a degree of hypocracy in your beliefs in relation to God????


  • #2822
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    ... except Adam & Eve weren't babies ... they were adult perfectly created highly intelligent Human Beings.
    Except with ut the ability to judge good and evil and had no experience or concept of the punishment God threatened the with.
    J C wrote: »
    ... so why do you whinge about the punishment of Adam and Eve's horrific sin ... while presumably maintaining that everybody must bear responsibility for their actions in relation to everything from a parking fine to murder????
    ... do I detect a degree of hypocracy in your beliefs in relation to God????
    Oh dear seems the troll is stuck in a loop.


  • #2823
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    Except with ut the ability to judge good and evil and had no experience or concept of the punishment God threatened the with.
    ... they had the free will to believe God ... or believe Satan.

    They chose to not only to believe Satan ... they became initiates into his occult system (tree) of evil knowledge ... mixed with good knowledge ... to 'sugar coat the poison pill'.

    King Mob wrote: »
    Oh dear seems the troll is stuck in a loop.
    ... so please come out of the loop ... and answer my question ...
    ... why do you whinge about the punishment of Adam and Eve's horrific sin ... while presumably maintaining that everybody must bear responsibility for their actions in relation to everything from a parking fine to murder????


  • #2824
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    ... they had the free will to believe God ... or believe Satan.

    They chose to not only believe Satan ... they became initiates into his occult system of evil knowledge ... mixed with good knowledge ... to 'sugar coat the poison pill'.
    And none of that is in the bible.
    J C wrote: »
    ... so please come out of the loop ... and answer my question ...
    ... why do you whinge about the punishment of Adam and Eve's horrific sin ... while presumably maintaining that everybody must bear responsibility for their actions in relation to everything from a parking fine to murder????
    I'm not going to do that JC because that requires effort. And you are a troll so such effort would be wasted.


  • #2825
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    And none of that is in the bible.
    ... it's all there in Genesis for anyone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit to see.

    King Mob wrote: »
    I'm not going to do that JC because that requires effort.
    In other words, you have no answer!!!!


  • #2826
    King Mob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,323 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    J C wrote: »
    ... it's all there in Genesis for anyone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit to see.
    But it's actually not.
    J C wrote: »
    In other words, you have no answer!!!!
    Oh I do. But that's for an actual discussion with a person who is interested in such.
    But you're just a troll looking for an argument.

    But even though your covers been blown you still pretend to be something everyone knows you're not.
    And the fact that you've been at it for five years is worrying.
    So either if you do actually believe this nonsense or you actually are a troll that sad the best thing to do is to not encourage you at all.
    And maybe advise you to seek help.


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  • #2827
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    King Mob wrote: »
    But it's actually not.
    ... oh yes it is.
    Satan possessed the Snake ... and Adam & Eve defied God's warning and became initiated into Satan's gnostic structure or 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil'.

    King Mob wrote: »
    Oh I do. But that's for an actual discussion with a person who is interested in such.
    But you're just a troll looking for an argument.

    But even though your covers been blown you still pretend to be something everyone knows you're not.
    And the fact that you've been at it for five years is worrying.
    So either if you do actually believe this nonsense or you actually are a troll that sad the best thing to do is to not encourage you at all.
    And maybe advise you to seek help.
    As an un-Saved person ... you're the one in need of help ... and Salvation.


  • #2828
    Fluffybums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Fluffybums


    Genesis 3:
    "1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" 10 And he said, "I heard the sound of thee in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" 12 The man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I ate." 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life."

    Don't see anything about the snake/serpent being possessed by satan but then JC knows better than the bible.

    Because of what the serpent did God cursed the snake to walk on its belly, but then I have only taken this from the bible and obviously JC has superior knowledge.


  • #2829
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    Fluffybums wrote: »
    Genesis 3:
    "1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" 10 And he said, "I heard the sound of thee in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" 12 The man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I ate." 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life."

    Don't see anything about the snake/serpent being possessed by satan but then JC knows better than the bible.

    Because of what the serpent did God cursed the snake to walk on its belly, but then I have only taken this from the bible and obviously JC has superior knowledge.


    Not only that, the lord god was upset that they had put on fig leaves as he liked them to be naked, and dumb.


  • #2830
    Animavore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3 ✭Animavore


    While we're on the subject, did Adam and Eve have belly buttons?


  • #2831
    Ecocrexis
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭Ecocrexis


    Ok this has even annoyed me, a lurker, Can we please stop feeding the troll and ignore every single one of his statements?


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  • #2832
    liamw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,780 ✭✭✭liamw


    Mods, please close this thread. It's obvious trolling at this stage.


  • #2833
    robindch
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Folks, could we lay off the non-stop "trolling" comments, please?

    Dades and I -- and at this stage, most of Western Europe, Africa, Northern and Southern America, the Antipodes, India and the Far East, the moons of Jupiter and I suspect every group of sentient atoms in the universe larger than a pinhead -- are perfectly well aware of what JC is doing.

    The only reason that this thread is left open is so that passersby can see creationism in action, something for which I would like to thank JC.

    Nonstop "trolling" comments aren't just boring, they also get in the way of this.

    Thanks.


  • #2834
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    Fluffybums wrote: »
    Genesis 3:
    "1 Now the serpent was more subtle than any other wild creature that the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God say, 'You shall not eat of any tree of the garden'?" 2 And the woman said to the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; 3 but God said, 'You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.'" 4 But the serpent said to the woman, "You will not die. 5 For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves aprons. 8 And they heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, "Where are you?" 10 And he said, "I heard the sound of thee in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself." 11 He said, "Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten of the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?" 12 The man said, "The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate." 13 Then the LORD God said to the woman, "What is this that you have done?" The woman said, "The serpent beguiled me, and I ate." 14 The LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life.

    Yeah, it would be very rude to tell him to piss off because we dont like his views .
    Anyway, according to the above passage this is what i have come to believe
    Snakes were once very smart and able to talk,they walked upright and were logical and very persuasive.
    The snake told Eve the truth, while god lied to her when he told her she would die if she even touched the tree ,never mind eat from it.
    Once she and her husband ate from the tree they became smart enough to see that they were naked,and to knit.
    The god fellow liked to take a walk around the garden when it was cool,he was probably naked as well and not a sun worshipper -maybe he doesn't tan so well.
    It's possible to play hide and seek with god as Adam and Eve were able to hide from him.
    Adam had no backbone(being made from clay and all)and folded at once when questioned by god, pushing everything onto his wife, and god,-"you know that woman you gave me-well she did it"
    Eve explained it was the snake who told her what to do, god got pissed and told the talking snake that he would have to crawl and eat dust all his life.
    Yes,its all clear to me now.


  • #2835
    Fluffybums
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 362 ✭✭Fluffybums


    Housetype very good summary:D


  • #2836
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Fluffybums wrote: »
    Don't see anything about the snake/serpent being possessed by satan but then JC knows better than the bible.

    Because of what the serpent did God cursed the snake to walk on its belly, but then I have only taken this from the bible and obviously JC has superior knowledge.
    Genesis 3 makes use of considerable metaphors. This is done deliberately to protect people from becoming too engrossed in Satan's gnostic web.
    The fact that the Serpent was Satan is confirmed in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2.
    Revelation 12:9
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Revelation 20:2
    And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,


  • #2837
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    robindch wrote: »
    Folks, could we lay off the non-stop "trolling" comments, please?

    Dades and I -- and at this stage, most of Western Europe, Africa, Northern and Southern America, the Antipodes, India and the Far East, the moons of Jupiter and I suspect every group of sentient atoms in the universe larger than a pinhead -- are perfectly well aware of what JC is doing.

    The only reason that this thread is left open is so that passersby can see creationism in action, something for which I would like to thank JC.
    ... it also shows evolutionism in 'action' ... or lack thereof.

    ... Robin is quite correct ... you will need to do a lot more than 'handwaving' about 'trolling' if ye are to convince anybody, including yourselves that 'big picture' evolution has any validity.


  • #2838
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    J C wrote: »
    Genesis 3 makes use of considerable metaphors. This is done deliberately to protect people from becoming too engrossed in Satan's gnostic web.
    The fact that the Serpent was Satan is confirmed in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2.
    Revelation 12:9
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,which is called the devil, And Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Revelation 20:2
    And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent,which is the devil, AND Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    No way Jose, Revelation is talking about a great dragon,whom he affectionately calls "that old serpent", look again ,twice it says it's a dragon which is the devil:). Gotta learn to parse the sentence correctly and that will even show you that the dragon is not Satan,who is just hanging around with the dragon.
    He laid hold of the dragon AND Satan

    jeeez,do we read the same fantasy novels at all?

    It's not the truth talking snake from genesis(who was by then crawling around on his belly eating dust,for his good deed.) that showed that god was telling lies when he said his pet humans -Adam and Eve-would die from eating some fruit from his special private tree.
    He was so pissed about that he told them to get the fcuk out of his garden,.......... no wonder he is so against trespassing.


  • #2839
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    wrote:
    Originally Posted by J C (as changed by housetypeb)
    Genesis 3 makes use of considerable metaphors. This is done deliberately to protect people from becoming too engrossed in Satan's gnostic web.
    The fact that the Serpent was Satan is confirmed in Revelation 12:9 and 20:2.
    Revelation 12:9
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,which is called the devil, And Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Revelation 20:2
    And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent,which is the devil, AND Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

    housetypeb
    No way Jose, Revelation is talking about a great dragon,whom he affectionately calls "that old serpent", look again ,twice it says it's a dragon which is the devil:). Gotta learn to parse the sentence correctly and that will even show you that the dragon is not Satan,who is just hanging around with the dragon.
    He laid hold of the dragon AND Satan

    jeeez,do we read the same fantasy novels at all?

    It's not the truth talking snake from genesis(who was by then crawling around on his belly eating dust,for his good deed.) that showed that god was telling lies when he said his pet humans -Adam and Eve-would die from eating some fruit from his special private tree.
    He was so pissed about that he told them to get the fcuk out of his garden,.......... no wonder he is so against trespassing.
    You clearly have a problem with both grammar and metaphorical language ... to say nothing about your use of the 'un-parliamentary' variety as well!!!

    ... let's parse Revelation 12:9
    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,which is called the devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

    Firstly, could I point out that you 'slipped in' a capital 'A' in the "and Satan ..." part of the scripture verse in my original quote ... which is quite disingenuous ... or worse!!!
    You really shouldn't fake other peoples quotes ... if you can't make them fit your preconceived ideas!!!!:(


    In any event, the verse is clearly referring to the same 'entity' which it describes as 'the great dragon', the 'old serpent', the 'devil' and 'Satan' (with a lower case 'a' on the 'and').
    The fact that these are four aspects of the one spiritual 'entity' is confirmed by the use of the words 'he' and 'his' (rather than 'they' and 'their' in the subsequent part of the verse which describes what happened to him.


  • #2840
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    It's a bit like arguing over the specific temperatures the porridge was at when Goldilocks ate it in the children's story. If people spent lifetimes debating such things you would very quickly call them mad for wasting their lives on such drivel.

    And yet others do it and we call it theology. A funny society.


  • #2841
    CiaranMT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭CiaranMT


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    It's a bit like arguing over the specific temperatures the porridge was at when Goldilocks ate it in the children's story. If people spent lifetimes debating such things you would very quickly call them mad for wasting their lives on such drivel.

    And yet others do it and we call it theology. A funny society.

    Excellent. Excellent sir.


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  • #2842
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    It's a bit like arguing over the specific temperatures the porridge was at when Goldilocks ate it in the children's story. If people spent lifetimes debating such things you would very quickly call them mad for wasting their lives on such drivel.

    And yet others do it and we call it theology. A funny society.
    The billions of years story that Evolutionists have created about the supposed materialistic production and development of life, without any evidence for its existence, is indeed like a 'Goldilocks' story ... and a long and ever changing one at that ...
    ... and the occasional arguments that break out every so often over some arcane (and equally evidentially challenged) issue within the Evolutionist 'world' do sound distinctly like arguments over whether Goldilocks actually preferred porridge to Rice Crispies!!!

    ... the Evolutionist 'world' is a funny old world allright!!!!


  • #2843
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    J C wrote: »
    The billions of years story that Evolutionists have created about the supposed materialistic production and development of life, without any evidence for its existence, is indeed like a 'Goldilocks' story ... and a long and ever changing one at that ...
    ... and the occasional arguments that break out every so often over some arcane (and equally evidentially challenged) issue within the Evolutionist 'world' do sound distinctly like arguments over whether Goldilocks actually preferred porridge to Rice Crispies!!!

    ... the Evolutionist 'world' is a funny old world allright!!!!

    JC, there are literally terabytes of evidence available to you from DNA sequencing which prove beyond a doubt that evolution occurred. If you cannot reconcile reality with the imbecilic equivalent of "Goldilocks and The Three Bears" to which you are enslaved, then I can only express my pity for you.

    We can for example debate the particular methods Adolf Hitler used in the final solution, but we do not doubt that the Holocaust occurred. Evolution is similar, people who deny it only consign themselves to the lowest dregs of the intellectually bankrupt and the terminally credulous.


  • #2844
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    JC, there are literally terabytes of evidence available to you from DNA sequencing which prove beyond a doubt that evolution occurred. If you cannot reconcile reality with the imbecilic equivalent of "Goldilocks and The Three Bears" to which you are enslaved, then I can only express my pity for you.

    We can for example debate the particular methods Adolf Hitler used in the final solution, but we do not doubt that the Holocaust occurred. Evolution is similar, people who deny it only consign themselves to the lowest dregs of the intellectually bankrupt and the terminally credulous.
    There are terabytes of CFSI in DNA allright ... but the real question is how this information was created in the first place.

    CFSI has never been observed to be spontaneously generated by anything other than an ultimate input of intelligence.
    ... you might well say that people who deny this reality, consign themselves to the lowest dregs of the intellectually bankrupt and the terminally credulous ... but I would never be so un-charitable!!!:)

    ... and the use of 'Ockhams Broom' to brush the inconvenient truths of the existence of CFSI and the Intelligent Design of life under the evolutionist carpet ... doesn't make this repeatably observable evidence go away!!


  • #2845
    Marcus.Aurelius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭Marcus.Aurelius


    J C wrote: »
    There are terabytes of CFSI in DNA allright ... but the real question is how this information was created in the first place.

    J C,

    Evolution happened. It's visible, right there in the data. I don't care how you care to rationalize it with your fairytales.

    It's sad and pathetic to see someone so lost and yet determined to remain so.


  • #2846
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    J C,

    Evolution happened. It's visible, right there in the data. I don't care how you care to rationalize it with your fairytales.

    It's sad and pathetic to see someone so lost and yet determined to remain so.
    CFSI says you're wrong if you're arguing that Materialistic Evolution happens!!!

    ... but if you're arguing that evolution of pre-existing CFSI by selection within Kinds occurs ... then I agree with you ... that it occurs.


  • #2847
    5uspect
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 10,518 Mod ✭✭✭✭5uspect


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    JC, there are literally terabytes of evidence available to you from DNA sequencing which prove beyond a doubt that evolution occurred. If you cannot reconcile reality with the imbecilic equivalent of "Goldilocks and The Three Bears" to which you are enslaved, then I can only express my pity for you.

    We can for example debate the particular methods Adolf Hitler used in the final solution, but we do not doubt that the Holocaust occurred. Evolution is similar, people who deny it only consign themselves to the lowest dregs of the intellectually bankrupt and the terminally credulous.

    I remember, a long time ago, asking JC to take one journal paper on evolution, any paper, and discuss it and point out what exactly was wrong in it.
    I even helpfully pointed him several journals:
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54104481&postcount=7248

    Of course this request was ignored until finally he dismissed it thus:
    J C wrote: »


    5uspect
    I'm still waiting for the great "Destroyer of Evolution" here to review even one scientific paper on the matter and show us where it went wrong...

    As I have said already, I have scanned some of these papers ...... and they all seem to be describing Natural / Sexual Selection or Speciation within Kinds......
    ......which Creation Scientists accept.......
    ........it's the unfounded claims that Pondscum 'morphed' into Man, that Creation Scientists don't accept!!!

    ……..anyway, surely it is the Evolutionists on this thread who should be the ones digging up peer reviewed scientific papers, to support THEIR claims about evolution……..IF these papers exist!!!!:eek:

    With Loving thoughts

    J C

    If it chooses to ignore the very definition of evolution and dodge any attempt at discussion what the science actually says there is no further point in feeding it other than for personal amusement.


  • #2848
    J C
    Registered Users Posts: 14,615 ✭✭✭✭J C


    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    J C,

    Evolution happened. It's visible, right there in the data. I don't care how you care to rationalize it with your fairytales.
    As I have said already, I have scanned some of the papers describing 'evolution' ... and they all seem to be describing Natural / Sexual Selection or Speciation within Kinds ...
    ... which Creation Scientists accept ...
    ... it's the unfounded claims that Pondscum 'morphed' into Man, that Creation Scientists don't accept!!!

    ... and you're the guys trying to rationalise a fairytale ... and making a very poor job of it, if I may say so!!!
    Marcus.Aurelius wrote: »
    It's sad and pathetic to see someone so lost and yet determined to remain so.
    Describes the situation of many of the un-Saved perfectly.


  • #2849
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    J C wrote: »
    CFSI says you're wrong if you're arguing that Materialistic Evolution happens!!!

    A massive pile of nonsensical bullsh!t says he's wrong!?!?!?!? OH NOES :eek:


  • #2850
    GO_Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 966 ✭✭✭GO_Bear


    J C wrote: »
    As I have said already, I have scanned some of the papers describing 'evolution' ... and they all seem to be describing Natural / Sexual Selection or Speciation within Kinds ...

    Could you reference these papers then ? I am sure there are loads.

    J C wrote: »
    ... which Creation Scientists accept ...

    Creation is not science its magic, do they wear lab coats or top hats ?

    J C wrote: »
    ... it's the unfounded claims that Pondscum 'morphed' into Man, that Creation Scientists don't accept!!!

    Again, Pond scum did not morph into man, it started out with simple encapsulated self replicating DNA and over billions of years became more diverse and complex which ended up as modern man. Therein shows your lack of knowledge in the abiogenesis and evolution.

    However, how is Pondscum morphing into man any less crazy than lets say , God creating man from dirt and women from one of mans ribs ?
    J C wrote: »
    ... any you're the guys trying to rationalize a fairytale ... and making a very poor job of it, if I may say so!!!

    Some times I do stay up late to imagine what it would be like to live according to the book......... the wheel of time that is, I would be Mat , hes awesome.
    J C wrote: »
    Describes the situation of many of the un-Saved perfectly.

    Saved from what ?


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  • #2851
    housetypeb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,194 ✭✭✭housetypeb


    J C wrote: »
    As I have said already, I have scanned some of the papers describing 'evolution' ... and they all seem to be describing Natural / Sexual Selection or Speciation within Kinds ...

    Scanned? Scanned? Surely back in the day,when you used to be an evolutionary scientist,like you've claimed, you did more than scan it,you studied it.


This discussion has been closed.
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