Athlone property prices booming !

Long Gone · 16-09-2014 2:19am #1

I see that the Athlone Advertiser are reporting a new property price boom in Athlone....:eek:

http://www.advertiser.ie/athlone/article/72252/athlone-property-sales-double-in-one-year

Seems a little bit premature to me, although the only way is up from where local property prices are at the moment - Rock bottom I would say. Interest rates are really low, but to me what's destroying people's financial confidence is the way the government is trying to gouge money in any way they can from anyone that they believe has some - with a combination of penal taxation rates and stealth taxes - The completely unfair property tax on the family home, Water charges, Levies, too high VAT, fuel duty etc.:mad:

demanufactured · 16-09-2014 6:01pm

Good. ..I'm way into negative equity. ..

Long Gone · 17-09-2014 1:24am

demanufactured wrote: »

Good. ..I'm way into negative equity. ..

I hope you didn't buy in 2007 ! .:eek:

L.Jenkins · 17-09-2014 11:33am

If I'd have known the property collapse was coming when it did, I wouldn't have had to worry about negative equity, and I don't have to either, I would have made a fortune betting on global stock market crashes. Must keep an eye out again in the next couple of years.

Edit: I should have known something was going to go boobs up when €240 Billion was wiped of the Asian Stock Market Value overnight back in '07.

veryangryman · 17-09-2014 1:35pm

I dont really see them going up significantly for some time soon.

I.T bubble ongoing in Dublin so a temporary hike there (maybe will last 2-3 more years). Hence demand for property in Dublin.

Rest of country (including Athlone) left in the lurch. However the local press (perhaps in need of filling column inches) quote local Property Agents, whose interest it is to big up the property market.

Anyways, cant see it happening here. Still could drop further IMO. Certainly wont be going back up to old levels.

demanufactured · 17-09-2014 6:45pm

Long Gone wrote: »

I hope you didn't buy in 2007 ! .:eek:

2006

In the wind · 17-09-2014 7:57pm

demanufactured wrote: »

2006

It seems more like a boom in volume rather than price to be fair. At least that's what I took away from the article.
This might suggest that the current prices are considered good value or perhaps near bottom.

17-09-2014 8:43pm

Are houses actually selling??
I commute to Longford and pass the same "for sale" signs every day, many have been up for several years.

nice_guy80 · 17-09-2014 9:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Are houses actually selling??
I commute to Longford and pass the same "for sale" signs every day, many have been up for several years.

houses are selling in Mulingar

one was sold in about 5/6 weeks recently

Long Gone · 19-09-2014 3:48pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

houses are selling in Mulingar

one was sold in about 5/6 weeks recently

I'm very surprised by that. I can't think why anyone would want to live in Mullingar.

veryangryman · 19-09-2014 3:50pm

Long Gone wrote: »

I'm very surprised by that. I can't think why anyone would want to live in Mullingar.

Hour commute to Dublin.
Cheap cost of living
Trainline direct to Connolly

And that's before anyone lists the amenities in the town itself. I wouldn't live there but sure 15000 do so they cant all be mad.

L.Jenkins · 20-09-2014 11:58am

I've spent a few weeks here and there in Mullingar. The town itself is ok, but I wouldn't be too gone on it as a place to live.

johnp001 · 23-09-2014 11:50am

This is the graph of the property price register data that the article says it is based on.
http:// propertypriceregisterireland .com/graphs/?action=search&type=county&id=westmeath

The graph is still going down (as article says, data is only valid up as far as July)

veryangryman · 23-09-2014 11:52am

I knew that people would misinterpret the article.

SALES are booming, not PRICES.

A house across from me went yesterday at 49% of the price of my own. BOOM my hole

johnp001 · 23-09-2014 12:05pm

Article States:

"For example, the price register shows an actual fall in the average price of a property in Athlone when comparing January to July 2014 versus the same period in 2013.However, on closer examination it is clear that prices are rising in most parts of the town, and the average figures for 2013 are inflated by some particularly high value sales.

Take, for example, the three most expensive properties sold in Athlone in the January to July 2013 period, at Portaneena, Athlone; Wineport, Glasson; and Benown, Glasson; which sold for €400k, €400k, and €450k respectively. The sales of these properties increased the average price of a property sold in Athlone in this period by almost €15k. The average price of a property sold in Athlone in this period was just over €102k, for the 68 properties sold. If these three properties had not been sold, the average in the period would be just under €88k.

The average price of a property in Athlone for January to July 2014 was €89k for the over 130 properties sold."

So even if it was valid to remove the data that doesn't suit the hypothesis when this data is removed the increase is only 1.1% (88k - 89k) which doesn't support the statement "it is clear that prices are rising in most parts of the town"

L.Jenkins · 23-09-2014 12:11pm

I know it's not in Athlone, but house prices in Longford don't seem too bad. As someone who commutes to Leixlip from Athlone and back daily, an extra 10-15 minutes wouldn't be a stretch to have such a roof over my head. I'm sure the same house 5-6 years ago would have fetched an awful lot more than it's current asking price.

Long Gone · 23-09-2014 5:08pm

Itzy wrote: »

I know it's not in Athlone, but house prices in Longford don't seem too bad. As someone who commutes to Leixlip from Athlone and back daily, an extra 10-15 minutes wouldn't be a stretch to have such a roof over my head. I'm sure the same house 5-6 years ago would have fetched an awful lot more than it's current asking price.

That does seem insanely low - Even if it is in Longford (middle of nowhere and where people don't really want to live). I wonder if there's some other reason why it's so cheap ?

23-09-2014 7:14pm

Long Gone wrote: »

That does seem insanely low - Even if it is in Longford (middle of nowhere and where people don't really want to live). I wonder if there's some other reason why it's so cheap ?

That's not insanely cheap, that house is in the middle of nowhere near a town that's also in the middle of nowhere on what is most likely a near empty ghost estate.

Chances are it's only a builders finish as well.

Zubeneschamali · 24-09-2014 2:19pm

veryangryman wrote: »

SALES are booming, not PRICES.

Well, one follows the other. If sales boom, prices stop dropping. Then the pent up supply of stuff that's for sale gets bought, properties for sale get rarer, and prices start going up.

We're a year or two behind the scene in Dublin, but in a couple of years (if there are no big shocks to the economy), I'd expect to see prices rising rapidly until building restarts.

Quick, get on the ladder! :pac:

Long Gone · 25-09-2014 12:31pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Quick, get on the ladder! :pac:

Spot on - I'm off to buy a rake of but to lets in Ballyforan while I can still pick them up for a song ! .:)

nice_guy80 · 25-09-2014 4:48pm

wait until the banks start off loading properties

how many people in towns across rural Ireland are only paying the interest on the mortgage? or even less than that.

25-09-2014 7:57pm

nice_guy80 wrote: »

wait until the banks start off loading properties

how many people in towns across rural Ireland are only paying the interest on the mortgage? or even less than that.

The past few years have shown that the banks are smarter than we think!
They are deliberately not repossessing or offloading property to retain the "value", if a property with a non-performing mortgage suddenly has a resale value above the outstanding mortgage, you can be certain that's when they'll move and repossess!

Up to your eyes in negative equity in the arsehole of nowhere, chances are, they'll leave you alone as the house would be sold at a loss.

Long Gone · 29-09-2014 7:13pm

It's amazing really that people didn't realise that it was all going to end in tears. People completely lost their minds during the tiger era - I mean who in their right mind were convinced that houses in Athlone with practically no garden and no garage were worth three quarters of a million Euros ? - MADNESS ! .:rolleyes: And as for the ghost estates - So called "Town houses" crammed onto a small greenfield site to try to maximise profits for spiv developers from gullible buyers getting cheap credit..... One word primarily springs to mind - GREED .:mad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9sB9i7bfN0

veryangryman · 29-09-2014 7:15pm

Just got a letter in my door today from an estate agents who sold a place nearby. They want other landlords to consider selling.

Maybe they are on the way up after all... Still i don't think they will ever match the old prices. My own place is worth 50% of what i paid for it based on selling prices of neighbours' places.

Zubeneschamali · 29-09-2014 7:29pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Still i don't think they will ever match the old prices.

Sure they will. My place cost £55K, that's €70k, in 1992, and it's worth a bit more than double that now. It was worth double that again at the peak.

I'd give it 10 years, and it'll be back up at the peak again.

veryangryman · 29-09-2014 8:20pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Sure they will. My place cost £55K, that's €70k, in 1992, and it's worth a bit more than double that now. It was worth double that again at the peak.

I'd give it 10 years, and it'll be back up at the peak again.

Hard to predict. Oil etc probably will skyrocket in price in meantime, affecting alot of stuff. Plus the country is really at a crossroads. Even Dublin could go through another bust after the current bubble (It is a bubble IMO).

I do take comfort from Estate Agents looking to get people to sell - they must see something that I don't. First time I've felt like I've got an "asset" in some time.

Long Gone · 29-09-2014 8:28pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Sure they will. My place cost £55K, that's €70k, in 1992, and it's worth a bit more than double that now. It was worth double that again at the peak.

I'd give it 10 years, and it'll be back up at the peak again.

I don't entirely disagree that prices might be back to 2007 levels in 10 years time (2024) but even if they are they won't be back at "the peak". It will mean that 17 years after the peak of 2007, house prices have stagnated at the same monetary level.

The bubble won't happen again - The "perfect storm" of incompetent, corrupt government, incompetent and stupid regulator, greedy conniving spiv developers and irresponsible doling out of cheap credit will not happen in the future.

Long Gone · 29-09-2014 8:34pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I do take comfort from Estate Agents looking to get people to sell - they must see something that I don't. First time I've felt like I've got an "asset" in some time.

I reckon that we have reached the bottom of the property bust now - In fact I think we've overshot the bottom. Property is too cheap at the moment - Some great value out there.

The only thing that's preventing a recovery is the state of the country's finances and the mountain of private debt that the Irish people have insanely and criminally been saddled with - The government with their taxes and stealth taxes are putting way too much of a financial burden on working people and that is what is stopping any "feel good factor" among the productive population. The restoration of financial confidence and "feel good factor" is essential before we see a real rebound in the housing market.

29-09-2014 8:36pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I do take comfort from Estate Agents looking to get people to sell - they must see something that I don't. First time I've felt like I've got an "asset" in some time.

One of the main jobs of an estate agent is to keep his window full.

A full window means more browsers and hopefully more sales.

veryangryman · 29-09-2014 9:51pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

One of the main jobs of an estate agent is to keep his window full.
A full window means more browsers and hopefully more sales.

Agreed but by that logic they would forever be sending such letters to landlords to sell.

29-09-2014 10:14pm

veryangryman wrote: »

Agreed but by that logic they would forever be sending such letters to landlords to sell.

I can only assume that the old pictures in the window have faded and they need some new ones.

More likely that a few of the unsaleables have been withdrawn "until the market rises some more!"

In the wind · 30-09-2014 8:48am

There are quite a few riverside development in Athlone, custume pier, the one at the old aparallel premises and Shannon weir & jolly mariner.

On paper these look nice, Riverside view & all that. Does anyone here have experience of these developments from a maintenance, flooding, neighbourhood or anti social behaviour perspective?

stooge · 01-10-2014 12:38pm

Long Gone wrote: »

Property is too cheap at the moment - Some great value out there.

I dont think you can say 'too cheap', house prices sell for what people can and will pay based on demand. The current price trend for rural areas seems to be downward, partly due to lack of demand.

Long Gone wrote: »

The restoration of financial confidence and "feel good factor" is essential before we see a real rebound in the housing market.

While I dont disagree fully, it should be said that financial confidence and a feel good factor were contributing factors to the current mess. People thought nothing of borrowing ~10 times their yearly wages, sometimes on 100% mortgages purely because of the hysteria and hype. Had they been thinking rationally, the traditional 2-3 times a yearly wage at ~75% of value would have been adhered. So while more general spending would be good for the economy, it has to be reasoned.

Finally, I dont think (adjusted for inflation) we will ever see a price boom such as the recent one. And to be honest, thats not a bad thing. A strong economy should not be based on or indicated by, rising house prices.

veryangryman · 01-10-2014 1:10pm

stooge wrote: »

A strong economy should not be based on or indicated by, rising house prices.

Thats true, the rising house prices should be the result of a strong economy.

johnp001 · 01-10-2014 10:55pm

Trend in rural areas and small towns will only continue downwards as there is no under supply like in Dublin.
The prices became inflated during the boom when, due to the fact that incomes were consistently increasing over a number of years, people borrowed more over longer terms than ever before. This was allowed due to complete lack of regulation of the banks and the wishful thinking that the increase in incomes would continue indefinitely.
Until a time when the tax increases needed to pay for the bailout are reversed, employment rises and wages increase leaving the average person with more money in their pocket the fundamentals for property price increases aren't there.
The number of property transactions in this area are still extremely low and if banks were to repossess and put up for sale any significant proportion of the properties where the mortgages aren't being paid there would be further price drops due to oversupply.
The end to CGT exemption at the end of this year will also continue to push prices downwards. In a market with an unprecedented number of cash buyers the CGT exemption applies to a large proportion of sales. Because any prospective investor will have a major advantage by buying before 31 December the prices will be pushed downwards due to around 1/3rd of purchasers being absent from the market next year while supply will remain steady or may increase due to the NAMA and the banks putting more distressed property up for sale.

Saruman · 03-10-2014 1:32pm

Yeah, I bought in Rochfortbridge and wish I had move to Mullingar as at least there's a decent town there. There's nothing in RFB.
I'm hoping prices get mental so people have to look at little towns like mine. I might be able to sell the house then.
The mad thing is, I bought in 2005 and in 2007 I still had people knocking on the door occasionally and asking if the house was for sale because they saw it on a random property site.
Had I just sold then.....

Freddiestar · 03-10-2014 8:16pm

A work colleague just bought in Athlone for a knock down price.

I don't think the Dublin madness is going to arrive any time soon.

Zubeneschamali · 03-10-2014 9:55pm

Freddiestar wrote: »

I don't think the Dublin madness is going to arrive any time soon.

No-one does, we are still wondering if we've hit the bottom.

But when we do hit the bottom, maybe next year, maybe the year after - the same exact thing will happen. Everyone who's been waiting 5 years for things to bottom out will pile in at the same time and prices will jump 20% in a year.

And don't say it's impossible - it's happening right now in Dublin, for the same reason. No new supply - 5 years+ of backed up buyers.

blast06 · 03-10-2014 10:24pm

veryangryman wrote: »

I dont really see them going up significantly for some time soon.

I.T bubble ongoing in Dublin so a temporary hike there (maybe will last 2-3 more years). Hence demand for property in Dublin.

Rest of country (including Athlone) left in the lurch. However the local press (perhaps in need of filling column inches) quote local Property Agents, whose interest it is to big up the property market.

Anyways, cant see it happening here. Still could drop further IMO. Certainly wont be going back up to old levels.

Well if there is an IT bubble in Dublin then what do we call the situation in Athlone.
Think about it....
Ericsson - biggest software house in the country with ~1000 people working there (and work nearing completion for 60 additional office spaces). And given how long it has been there as a major employer then i don't think bubble is the right word
Also 5 to 6 other small to medium sized companies in Monksland and in Garrycastle industrial estate employing conservatively 300 people. There are more if start-ups in IT are counted.

So, taking 1300 people working in IT for a town of ~20,000 (6.5% of population) would mean that Dublin with a population of 1.25 million would need to have ~80,000 people working in IT. I can't find figures but i doubt there are 80K+

As an aisde, i notice planning permission was applied for (approved ... can't recall?) for ~90 houses in Cornamaddy recently. Developer must see something. Possibly that there is a very very small number of properties for rental in Athlone (check Daft... a mere 28 albeit some may be gone) compared to say 3 or 4 years ago. I rented out a house on east side of Athlone approx 4 months ago ..... i put the add on daft at 6pm and took 5 phone calls within 2 hours (took the add down at the stage.... and yes, i realise now i could have got more).
Now why property prices haven't picked up in Athlone even fractionally as much as Dublin .... well i'm not sure to be honest !

03-10-2014 10:58pm

Banks and mortgages would be the main reason, it appears people are looking to rent rather than buy these days. I large percentage of the property buyers in Dublin are "investors" looking to rent out the properties.

tubos · 04-10-2014 7:54am

blast06 wrote: »

As an aisde, i notice planning permission was applied for (approved ... can't recall?) for ~90 houses in Cornamaddy recently. Developer must see something.

Application is for houses in Drumaconn...

http://193.178.30.218/westmeatheplan/FileRefDetails.aspx?file_number=147103&LASiteID=0

veryangryman · 04-10-2014 6:49pm

They're taking a chance TBH. Ericsson been up and down quite alot the past decade or so. 25-35 year Mortgage being stuck out there if they did ever shut up shop is not something i'd like. The area has...

1) No nearby shops
2) No decent access to town centre
3) No bus service (not counting flagline Ericsson service which would stop if /// did)

Athlone in general would be fierce fkd if Ericsson ever upped and left. Dick Brutons visit the other day over a nothing contract which had VERY little to do with the Athlone office was nothing short of a joke.

Ericssons big problem is that they deal mainly in Networks (which is not booming) rather than general I.T (which IS booming). So i don't really think we can compare them with the Googles, Facebooks of Grand Canal Dock. Combined with the possibility of Corporate Tax harmonisation etc, I don't see them staying here forever.

blast06 · 04-10-2014 8:32pm

Dolanbaker .... when i say i am "not sure ot be honest", i mean that if you take prices versus rents then Athlone looks to be broadly on a par with Dublin in terms of investment yield and thus i would have expected a similar level of investor interest in Athlone.
I can say this based on property i have .... value ~165K (rent at 850 ... should have been 900). So investment yield of over 6% which should be good enough to attract cash investors !

veryangryman ..... you are dismissing the Athlone pharmaceutical industy plus effect of Athlone IT plus dept education plus tourism industry plus barracks etc etc in saying that Athlone would be banjaxed if Ericsson pulled plant. If Ericsson ever did pull plant i think it could be looked at years later as tthe best thing that could have happened - like Digital leaving Galway in the early 90's..... It would result imo in a large amount of vastly experienced people going off setting up their own startups (as per Galway post Digital). Also, other companies would be attracted by the talent pool that would be available etc etc....
You are wrong to link Ericsson to corporate tax harmonisation as far as i am aware (Athlone is a R&D centre, i.e.: incurs a cost. No corporate profits chanelled through Ireland as far as i am aware).
As for networks not booming ... .last quarter results plus future impact of small cells as mobile broadband becomes truely global ?? Anyway, as no doubt you know its mgmt systems in Athlone anyway..... which is all software. Agreed re Dick Bruton

Bottom line .... while the papers were talking ****e in the sense that they weren't based on too many facts, i think it may be a half accruate prediction of what may well happen. Athlone is miles ahead in every regard of Mullingar, Tullamore, Roscommon, Ballinasloe.
Anyway, none of us really know !!

Long Gone · 07-10-2014 1:07pm

I agree with the post above. The only way is up for property prices in Athlone and all the fundamentals are sound. We just need a bit more upturn in the local economy, a bit more easing of credit availability and the grovelment to stop taxing and stealth taxing productive workers to within an inch of their lives - Once that happens property prices will rise rapidly - The demand is there.

One thing that always amazes me is the number of properties now advertised locally as " POA ". What's that all about ? - It's like "so you want me to buy your house, but you're not prepared to let me know the selling price ? " Madness....

veryangryman · 07-10-2014 1:11pm

Long Gone wrote: »

One thing that always amazes me is the number of properties now advertised locally as " POA ". What's that all about ? - It's like "so you want me to buy your house, but you're not prepared to let me know the selling price ? " Madness....

Many reasons. One being the following...

An advertised price may be lower than it used to be, making people assume a race to the bottom and thus to bid even lower. If you give a POA, this price is only given to people who pick up the phone, so "browsers" will not see that the place has been dropping prices from previously listed prices. Thus the seller may be able to get the higher price from a novice who comes in with an offer.

As with life in general, It helps to look at things from other points of view than your own.

In the wind · 07-10-2014 2:55pm

Long Gone wrote: »

I agree with the post above. The only way is up for property prices in Athlone and all the fundamentals are sound. We just need a bit more upturn in the local economy, a bit more easing of credit availability and the grovelment to stop taxing and stealth taxing productive workers to within an inch of their lives - Once that happens property prices will rise rapidly - The demand is there.

One thing that always amazes me is the number of properties now advertised locally as " POA ". What's that all about ? - It's like "so you want me to buy your house, but you're not prepared to let me know the selling price ? " Madness....

it looks like easing of credit availability is heading south with the Central Bank proposal to implement 20% Loan to Value ratios from January 2015.

In short this means that a property bought today with a 10% LTV ratio may well drop in price as soon as January 2015 because demand will be reduced by the in-availability of 90% credit to mortgage buyers.

so by extension , it would be a bad move to purchase this side of the implementation of the new central bank rules, right?

Zubeneschamali · 07-10-2014 2:58pm

In the wind wrote: »

In short this means that a property bought today with a 10% LTV ratio may well drop in price as soon as January 2015 because demand will be reduced by the in-availability of 90% credit to mortgage buyers.

No-one is getting 90% mortgages right now. The banks are already applying stiffer conditions than the Central Bank is proposing.

The CB rules are intended to stop lenders losing the run of themselves in the next boom, not to make things tougher right now.

In the wind · 07-10-2014 3:09pm

My work Colleague just secured a 90% mortgage around August time.
Single man engaged to be married.

ghogie91 · 07-10-2014 3:30pm

Houses have definately went up in price I was having a gander on daft before i even seen this thread and they have gone up.

Even the prices to rent places have gone up aswell, putting half decent places out of my price range in the town tbh

Slightly annoying me that

gladrags · 07-10-2014 3:35pm

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No-one does, we are still wondering if we've hit the bottom.

But when we do hit the bottom, maybe next year, maybe the year after - the same exact thing will happen. Everyone who's been waiting 5 years for things to bottom out will pile in at the same time and prices will jump 20% in a year.

And don't say it's impossible - it's happening right now in Dublin, for the same reason. No new supply - 5 years+ of backed up buyers.

"The same exact thing will happen"

That is nonsense,and also misleading.

The "ballsy guys" are back I see.

Zubeneschamali · 07-10-2014 3:38pm

gladrags wrote: »

"The same exact thing will happen"

That is nonsense,and also misleading.

It seems to me that once the market starts to rise, the pent up demand (from all the people who passed on buying for the last 6 years) means prices will jump, before supply can come up to speed.

In what way is this nonsense and misleading?

Athlone property prices booming !

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