Do I need a DAC?

thatmeanchick · 22-10-2014 6:21pm #1

If I am planning to turn an office into a nail bar, do I need a DAC? I will just be taking down a partition and having my space be one big open room with the installation of a couple counters.

We're not extending the space in any way, just changing the floor tiles and painting the walls. The office has been vacant for 4 years.

BryanF · 22-10-2014 7:49pm

Consult planning dept re change of use
Once that's submitted consult Building control re DAC

Imo you do, depending on the building there may be some compromise in regs but expect ramp access, lighting & wc considerations

Check out fire cert as it may also require an update and BER also

thatmeanchick · 22-10-2014 9:04pm

so basically I'm likely gonna have to spend a few grand of my small business loan to gut the wc and double its size? What am I meant to do about the front door that won't fit a wheelchair through it?

BryanF · 22-10-2014 9:25pm

thatmeanchick wrote: »

so basically I'm likely gonna have to spend a few grand of my small business loan to gut the wc and double its size? What am I meant to do about the front door that won't fit a wheelchair through it?

Q1: Not necessarily
Q2: widen it. As I said go a talk to the stake holders before jumping to conclusions

if this is definitely going ahead perhaps speak to a local arch/arch tech before approaching the council or building control

thatmeanchick · 22-10-2014 9:51pm

yeah, I have an architect on the case but still, I'd like to know what to expect. If major renos are ahead then I'll look for a new space altogether. Anyway, I'll wait to hear back from him but time is a factor

sydthebeat · 23-10-2014 12:48pm

i find there is so much bureaucracy involved with small business ventures in existing premises, it makes a lot of them untenable.

take a small 50 sq m space

planning for change of use, statutory and professonal fees. then development contributions.... possible total €3000
fire safety certificate statutory and professional fee, possible total €1000
DAC statutory and Professional fee, possible total €1500

so theres an initial outlay of €5,500 for a small space, even if ABSOLUTELY NOTHING needs to be altered to open.

I think planners / building control officers / fire officers should have more power and resources to offer opinions as to whether a change of use actually requires changes to planning and building reg status, and negligible changes should be considered allowed. Its ridiculous thats theres no 'exempt status' for small commercial activity driven by entrepreneurial determination.

thatmeanchick · 23-10-2014 8:44pm

it's defo frustrating. I feel like they want people to stay unemployed for some reason

Gumbo · 23-10-2014 10:42pm

Where is the premise?
Is there apartments or flats above it?

thatmeanchick · 24-10-2014 12:31am

it's in d8 - yeah there are flats....dont give me more bad news please!!! lol

Gumbo · 25-10-2014 3:40pm

thatmeanchick wrote: »

it's in d8 - yeah there are flats....dont give me more bad news please!!! lol

If the change of use from the office to a nail bar is sufficient enough that you need planning, then because the building contains flats you may also need a Fire Safety Certificate. Then that will mean you 100% need a DAC.

thatmeanchick · 25-10-2014 3:48pm

dont you need a FSC no matter what anyway?

the changes arent significant, this is what bothers me! we're knocking down a counter and putting store bought tables in place. nothing is going in - only going out.

and we're adding a sink.

Gumbo · 25-10-2014 6:17pm

thatmeanchick wrote: »

dont you need a FSC no matter what anyway?

the changes arent significant, this is what bothers me! we're knocking down a counter and putting store bought tables in place. nothing is going in - only going out.

and we're adding a sink.

I think that's your question answered. Any FSC needs to be followed by a DAC.

thatmeanchick · 26-10-2014 1:40am

kceire wrote: »

I think that's your question answered. Any FSC needs to be followed by a DAC.

not really cos I was saying the changes aren't huge yet you're saying if they ARE they need an FSC and DAC and I'm saying regardless of changes I thought you need an FSC, not just in some cases

sydthebeat · 26-10-2014 8:56am

thatmeanchick wrote: »

not really cos I was saying the changes aren't huge yet you're saying if they ARE they need an FSC and DAC and I'm saying regardless of changes I thought you need an FSC, not just in some cases

In all due respect, it's not your call to say that the changes aren't huge.
If the change of use requires a fsc then it also requires a dac, that's a simple fact.
Your local fire officer will explain to you why it requires a fsc. For example, in an office environment, the layout of the building and escape routes are much more familiar to the everyday occupants, when compared to a service retail like a nailbar where customers will be unfamiliar. This alone would be a reason.

I sympathize, this bureaucracy is expensive and restrictive, but thems the rules.

Gumbo · 26-10-2014 11:38am

thatmeanchick wrote: »

not really cos I was saying the changes aren't huge yet you're saying if they ARE they need an FSC and DAC and I'm saying regardless of changes I thought you need an FSC, not just in some cases

Not really appropriate what you think is small changes I'm afraid. For an office to nail bar, you need planning, FSC, and DAC and sussequently the lodgement of a commencement notice.

You can lodge a 7 day notice and this means you can start on site sooner, but the notice must include a FSC and DAC and you sign an affidavit to say that no matter what the fire officer says about your application, any changes you will make and you lose your right to appeal the conditions set out.

Have you got any professional Involvement at the moment. Have you got planning yet?

shane6977 · 28-10-2014 11:21am

You do not require planning permission as the change of use from Office (Class4) to service provision (Class 2) is exempt under the Planning Regulations.

However, as outlined above, you will require a Fire Safety Certificate and Disability Access Certificate as there will be a material change of use from use as an office to use as a shop (as defined under the Building Control Regulations). Time Impact: 2 weeks to prepare application. Min 2 months approval period but is likely to go beyond this, especially in Dublin.

You will need to engage a Design Certifier and an Assigned Certifier to comply with the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2014. You will have to submit a Commenncement Notice to Dublin City Council a min. of 14 days before you start fit-out works. Once complete you will have to submit a Completion Certificate signed by your Build and Assigned Certifier and wait 21 days for validation by DCC before you can occupy and start trading.

thatmeanchick · 28-10-2014 1:42pm

thanks shane

Gumbo · 28-10-2014 3:07pm

shane6977 wrote: »

You do not require planning permission as the change of use from Office (Class4) to service provision (Class 2) is exempt under the Planning Regulations.

However, as outlined above, you will require a Fire Safety Certificate and Disability Access Certificate as there will be a material change of use from use as an office to use as a shop (as defined under the Building Control Regulations). Time Impact: 2 weeks to prepare application. Min 2 months approval period but is likely to go beyond this, especially in Dublin.

You will need to engage a Design Certifier and an Assigned Certifier to comply with the Building Control (Amendment) Regulations 2014. You will have to submit a Commenncement Notice to Dublin City Council a min. of 14 days before you start fit-out works. Once complete you will have to submit a Completion Certificate signed by your Build and Assigned Certifier and wait 21 days for validation by DCC before you can occupy and start trading.

If he is indeed covered by Section 41H then great, no planning required. That will shave some time off the process. In Dublin currently all decisions are being granted in time with regards to FSC and DAC.

If the OP wants to start earlier, a 7 day notice can be considered as pointed out before and if he wants to open and occupy the buikding earlier he can give the Building Control section advanced notice of the completion cert being lodged and get a day or two turn around instead on 21 days.

Gumbo · 29-10-2014 1:30pm

thatmeanchick wrote: »

thanks shane

Before you get advice from the internet, you need to discuss it with a professional you have engaged.

Isint Class 4 Light Industrial?
Office use is Class 3 from what i was told and would require planning to go to Class 2. Just shows the different opinions of the P&D Regulations/Acts.

BryanF · 29-10-2014 1:56pm

kceire wrote: »

Before you get advice from the internet, you need to discuss it with a professional you have engaged.

Isint Class 4 Light Industrial?
Office use is Class 3 from what i was told and would require planning to go to Class 2. Just shows the different opinions of the P&D Regulations/Acts.

3:1 the DAC is winning!

thatmeanchick · 29-10-2014 8:40pm

went to city council today and got it sorted. this thread needs to be closed now.

sydthebeat · 29-10-2014 8:43pm

Care to share what advice You got?

Gumbo · 29-10-2014 9:36pm

thatmeanchick wrote: »

went to city council today and got it sorted. this thread needs to be closed now.

Do you mind me asking what the said?

shane6977 · 03-11-2014 9:25am

kceire wrote: »

Before you get advice from the internet, you need to discuss it with a professional you have engaged.

Isint Class 4 Light Industrial?
Office use is Class 3 from what i was told and would require planning to go to Class 2. Just shows the different opinions of the P&D Regulations/Acts.

Check the Planning & Development Regulations, Schedule 2, Part 4.

Do I need a DAC?

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