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The 'No Fair' thread'

2»

Comments

  • #52
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    I feel quite hurt at being left out of the troublemakers 'hall of fame' ! I banned myself out of both RUI and IRN - still have the relevant emails filed - I was tempted to post them here but probably wise to keep my powder dry. :D

    A watched kettle never boils :)


  • #53
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Sligo Quay wrote: »
    At least JD, you got to ban yourself, I couldnd even become a member, applyed many months ago to join IRN but without success, you become a member then ban yourself, now feeling hurt, Iv no sympathy, you'll have to find another shoulder to cry on.
    I tried to join also but you must need a referrer before they let you in at all?


  • #54
    Sligo Quay
    Registered Users Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Sligo Quay


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I tried to join also but you must need a referrer before they let you in at all?
    A referrer? whats that surpose to mean, mystery solved, maybe a word with Victor, a referrer alas Victor might do the trick. Maybe thats the way to go.
    Referred by JD, may not work:D


  • #55
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I tried to join also but you must need a referrer before they let you in at all?

    Like the Masons now!
    Honestly, you're not missing much. IRN has been Tumbleweed Central for a long while.


  • #56
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,868 ✭✭✭SeanW


    shamwari wrote: »
    Moving forward, I mean, people were banned over there, came here, and suffered the same fate again. If the problems moves with that person from IRN to here, does that not vindicate the actions of the mods on IRN in banning that person?
    No, a lot of P11/RUI people (myself included) were banned from IRNs old MSN board for ... any reason they could think of, no matter how trivial. Leaving just a few anonymous headbanger cranks.

    It's ok go into their public board and look at the pictures from time to time, but that's it really. If the whole thing sunk to the bottom of the Irish sea, I most likely wouldn't notice for some time or even care.

    I also agree with the above poster who lamented the work the mods here have to do: keeping that nonsense in the ITG thread at bay must have been a serious PITA.


  • #57
    The Idyl Race
    Closed Accounts Posts: 222 ✭✭The Idyl Race


    I imagine why there were bannings were for threads like these:

    http://irishrailwaynews.multiply.com/journal/item/2553?&show_interstitial=1&u=%2Fjournal%2Fitem


  • #58
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    The Idyl Race

    I imagine why there were bannings were for threads like these:

    I can give some background to this.

    That thread is from 2005. Between 2001-2007, it was fairly liberal in terms of posting and moderation style. The problem occurred after various external events took place, which ran the risk of the whole Irish railway community and its various areas of interest being brought into disrepute. I need to be slightly vague regarding these in order to protect the community here at boards.ie also (Thanks Victor for the heads up). Lets just say those who know.....are aware.

    A slanderous remark was made against a high ranking member of Platform11/Railusers Ireland, stating he was using Platform11/RUI as a method of promoting private business. Legal action was threatened. The moderators, naturally got scared. I mean, for the first time ever, legal action was threatened. The first time in a full 6 years of posting, as far as I am aware.

    So after that a purge took place of those who had... shall I say 'dual citizenship' of Irishrailwaynews and Platform11. I was almost the last one of those to be purged, and I was not involved in any of the legal nonsense, or backstabbing. Certainly I could be sarcastic, and made plenty of snide comments. In fact what got me banned was using the word 'twat' to refer to the Minister of Transport Northern Ireland. Which was

    "regarded as an unacceptable word in a family forum"

    And I KNEW that they were just waiting for a chance to pounce and ban. It was never a matter of 'if' for me, it was a matter of 'when', no matter how much I skirted and skated on the edge of political incorrectness, and I kind of relish continuing to do so.....

    I just wanted to post, and give a point of view. So, you can see why I am rather annoyed at them, because I posted on both sites, and that was clearly intolerable. Notice the sentence/remark "Go back to that shower at Platform11". Such was the bitterness at the withdrawal of support of Platform11 in favour of the Western Rail Corridor.

    It was more than me, it was my friends also. And that was wrong. Time you knew, but I'm sure shamwari and others will come along and blame me, rather than the moderators. After all, 50 and more banned members for minor infractions versus biased moderator(s) cannot be right.

    To survive you must.

    Support branchlines.
    Support the west.
    Screw Dublin.
    The pale is an aberration which must be tamed.
    Be anti road at all costs.
    Reopen every branchline at no cost.

    And that post from 2005 proves my point.

    Answers on a postcard.


  • #59
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dermo88 wrote: »
    And that post from 2005 proves my point.

    You predicted the future anyway... the mention of an 80s-style depression putting the Interconnector on the long finger. :D


  • #60
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Karsini

    I did'nt, not quite. Thats giving too much credit. I asked a rhetorical question (27.04.2005), which asked:

    The Interconnector tunnel has been proposed since I was in nappies. It was in Voerhees plan of 1975. Do we have to have another 80's style depression to see it put on the long finger for lack of cash.

    As for The Idyl Race I gave some background to what happened. Bannings were quite rare before May 2007, but there were three individuals who caused it by slander, abuse of position, not paying bills which put the entire reputation of the community at risk and libellious comments. Don't go blaming the messenger. So by September 2007 a much stricter moderation policy was imposed, one which was random, banned and kicked out without question, in a non transparent manner. Do you now see why I question their legitimacy?

    Finally, I'll comment on Ivatt

    Keeping on-topic, work has been done on Dundalk - Monaghan and the findings have been very positive.

    There are also other possibilities for the region, including a cross-border link.

    That's really all that can be said here at this point.

    Thats the 'Independent Transport Consultant' Brian Guckian, the man who said in 2002 at the foundation of Railusers Ireland:

    "We must stop the Interconnector if we are to save the Western Rail Corridor and the Foynes branch"

    Not that it matters much on some internet forum, but is'nt that a little bit crazy.....


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  • #61
    parsi
    Site Banned Posts: 5,904 ✭✭✭parsi


    I'm going to post here because I've a feeling I'm going to get a ban for questioning the golden pass brigade.

    I call out IE incompetence when I encounter it but I can't stand idly by and watch golden pass holders make vicious allegations against public transport staff. Don't mind so much when folk who don't have free travel offer constructive criticism.


  • #62
    davidlacey
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭davidlacey


    fair point but is a pass holder not entitled to criticize a service that the company is providing and is paid to provide by the government


  • #63
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    parsi

    I'm going to post here because I've a feeling I'm going to get a ban for questioning the golden pass brigade.

    I call out IE incompetence when I encounter it but I can't stand idly by and watch golden pass holders make vicious allegations against public transport staff. Don't mind so much when folk who don't have free travel offer constructive criticism.

    Why would you get a ban for stating an opinion you are entitled to, provided you express it in a polite manner?

    Purely by virtue of the following, a Free Travel pass holder is a customer who deserves the same accomodation and courtesy at off peak times.

    - They have worked all their lives, or if they have'nt, they have raised families.
    - They are the people who laid the foundations for the Celtic Tiger.
    - They paid a hell of a lot of tax in harder times in many cases.

    Just to name a few aspects. However, I would be in favour of removing it for peak time travel, and openly state this. Simply because the demographics are changing and its sustainability and affordability to the state in the medium to long term are now questionable with increased lifespans and better quality healthcare.

    Thats not being harsh, its being realistic. Its not to insult or denigrate pensioners, but the life expectancy in Ireland in 1968, when Free Travel was introduced by CJ Haughey as Finance Minister was around 67 for men and 71 for women. So the state only paid for 2 years and 6 years of pensionable lifespan. Now, its easily 3 times longer. A pensioner in 1970 bears no comparison to their bouncing baby boomer counterpart of 2012. In fact, in terms of quality of life and health, generally the 2012 pensioners are behaving like 50 year olds, and do not know how to get old. Something, which is quite a welcome move......I like them. They are fun!


  • #64
    dowlingm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,337 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    I would hope that a medical card holder wouldn't be scorned for claiming malpractice by his/her doctors. The pass holders didn't set up the system - Seamus Brennan and his ilk did. We can argue about who should be entitled to one or whether there should be any but once aboard you're a passenger like everyone else end of story.


  • #65
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    without the free passes you can kiss goodbye to the subsidies and thus a lot of the services we have today and pay more into the bargain.


  • #66
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    corktina wrote: »
    without the free passes you can kiss goodbye to the subsidies and thus a lot of the services we have today and pay more into the bargain.

    Not really though; the problem is twofold.

    Firstly; too many people have these passes, including some people who are actually working and able to have them. Nobody sane refuses this wee privilege it to our senior citizens but they only number about half of DSP pass holders. That's a lot of income our transport companies are missing out on. And before we hear the "The sick and infirm get them" line, one of the lads in my office is wheelchair bound since birth and he can't get a pass yet every budding Hector Grey gets one :confused:

    Secondly, the State isn't paying close to the going rate for what the Golden Pass gives you. If the Government told Tesco or Superquinn to give out €100 worth of free food to pensioners weekly and paid them about €30 a month for doing it, the shops would go belly up. CIE group company's have to take a pittance off the State for offering free travel; I can't see Arriva or Stagecoach taking that end of the deal when Blue Leo tries to sell off bus routes in a year or so.


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  • #67
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    davidlacey wrote: »
    fair point but is a pass holder not entitled to criticize a service that the company is providing and is paid to provide by the government

    If it's justified critique, perhaps. A few shaggy dog stories or plain old fashioned lies don't quite cut it as being fair game to most of us.


  • #68
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Not really though; the problem is twofold.

    Firstly; too many people have these passes, including some people who are actually working and able to have them. Nobody sane refuses this wee privilege it to our senior citizens but they only number about half of DSP pass holders. That's a lot of income our transport companies are missing out on. And before we hear the "The sick and infirm get them" line, one of the lads in my office is wheelchair bound since birth and he can't get a pass yet every budding Hector Grey gets one :confused:

    Secondly, the State isn't paying close to the going rate for what the Golden Pass gives you. If the Government told Tesco or Superquinn to give out €100 worth of free food to pensioners weekly and paid them about €30 a month for doing it, the shops would go belly up. CIE group company's have to take a pittance off the State for offering free travel; I can't see Arriva or Stagecoach taking that end of the deal when Blue Leo tries to sell off bus routes in a year or so.

    that is not a true comparison. for a start,the food given out has a cost, whereas it costs exactly the same to run the trains/buses whether there is a subsidy for pass holders or not.
    Net result of limiting or removing the passes is a combination of LESS income/less trains and buses/ higher fares


  • #69
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    corktina wrote: »
    that is not a true comparison. for a start,the food given out has a cost, whereas it costs exactly the same to run the trains/buses whether there is a subsidy for pass holders or not.
    Net result of limiting or removing the passes is a combination of LESS income/less trains and buses/ higher fares

    The point is that the all in service provided for DSP passes by the transport companies is provided at a massive loss. Private companies will hardly take on this deal as it stands given that it's hopelessly underfunded compared to what CIE is required to offer.


  • #70
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Not really though; the problem is twofold.

    Firstly; too many people have these passes, including some people who are actually working and able to have them. Nobody sane refuses this wee privilege it to our senior citizens but they only number about half of DSP pass holders. That's a lot of income our transport companies are missing out on. And before we hear the "The sick and infirm get them" line, one of the lads in my office is wheelchair bound since birth and he can't get a pass yet every budding Hector Grey gets one :confused:

    Secondly, the State isn't paying close to the going rate for what the Golden Pass gives you. If the Government told Tesco or Superquinn to give out €100 worth of free food to pensioners weekly and paid them about €30 a month for doing it, the shops would go belly up. CIE group company's have to take a pittance off the State for offering free travel; I can't see Arriva or Stagecoach taking that end of the deal when Blue Leo tries to sell off bus routes in a year or so.
    I find this very hard to believe, is this one of those shaggy dog stories?

    If your colleague is entitled to invalidity pension then he will automatically recieve a free travel pass when his pension payment is cleared. Is it possible he gave it to a member of his family to use because he has a car? Depending on his salary he may not be getting any invalidity payment as it is means tested but as long as he applied for it and satisfied the medical criteria(being wheelchair bound should suffice) he would be granted invalidity pension at a reduced rate, possibly €0/week but would then be issued the free travel pass automatically as well as the household benefits package including the fuel allowance.

    As for CIE and the subsidy, if all free travel was suspended there would be about half the number of buses coaches and trains not needed and this of course would lead to many redundancies. But the savings to the massive wages bill would probably far outweigh the lost subsidy.

    Also the state is paying very close to the actual cost when you consider that most buses coaches and trims would be operating anyway and having 40passengers on a bus is better than running it almost empty.
    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    If it's justified critique, perhaps. A few shaggy dog stories or plain old fashioned lies don't quite cut it as being fair game to most of us.
    is this free travel pass holders who have previously been fraud steers and now are just plain liars?


  • #71
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Reported for spreading lies, misinformation and advocating welfare fraud.
    foggy_lad wrote: »
    I find this very hard to believe, is this one of those shaggy dog stories?

    If your colleague is entitled to invalidity pension then he will automatically recieve a free travel pass when his pension payment is cleared. Is it possible he gave it to a member of his family to use because he has a car? Depending on his salary he may not be getting any invalidity payment as it is means tested but as long as he applied for it and satisfied the medical criteria(being wheelchair bound should suffice) he would be granted invalidity pension at a reduced rate, possibly €0/week but would then be issued the free travel pass automatically as well as the household benefits package including the fuel allowance.

    As for CIE and the subsidy, if all free travel was suspended there would be about half the number of buses coaches and trains not needed and this of course would lead to many redundancies. But the savings to the massive wages bill would probably far outweigh the lost subsidy.

    Also the state is paying very close to the actual cost when you consider that most buses coaches and trims would be operating anyway and having 40passengers on a bus is better than running it almost empty.

    is this free travel pass holders who have previously been fraud steers and now are just plain liars?


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  • #72
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Reported for spreading lies, misinformation and advocating welfare fraud.
    Please explain what lies and misinformation I am spreading and also where exactly have I advocated welfare fraud?

    You should find out more about things like invalidity pension and disability benefit before you accuse people of advocating fraud!


  • #73
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    Is it possible he gave it to a member of his family to use because he has a car?
    Is there any evidence of this?

    Moderator


  • #74
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Losty Dublin wrote: »
    Reported for spreading lies, misinformation and advocating welfare fraud.
    Knock it off.

    If you have a problem with a post, either counter it or report it. None of this snide 'I'm telling on you' stuff.

    Moderator.


  • #75
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Victor wrote: »
    Knock it off.

    If you have a problem with a post, either counter it or report it. None of this snide 'I'm telling on you' stuff.

    Moderator.

    People do and have reported countless posts on here. Hundreds of times and with no action taken. It's evidently okay for some people to claim all manner of things with no comeback on here and it's also not okay to expect some level of moderation about it, especially when posts are reported as they arise.

    Perhaps it's time for a new moderator to be appointed and ideally not one who has clear biases guiding them as appears to be the case here.


  • #76
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Victor wrote: »
    Is there any evidence of this?

    Moderator
    There is no evidence of this and I am not suggesting any intentional misuse or indeed that any travel pass was ever issued to this person!


    but so many people are unaware of the rules and guidelines for everything from leap cards and online train tickets and student ticket requirements to their own mobile phone contracts and handsets that some people do let others borrow their pass thinking it is allowed simply because they have not read the documentation that came with it.


  • #77
    shamwari
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭shamwari


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    but so many people are unaware of the rules and guidelines for everything from leap cards and online train tickets and student ticket requirements to their own mobile phone contracts and handsets that some people do let others borrow their pass thinking it is allowed simply because they have not read the documentation that came with it.
    Ignorance is no defence. Any student parroting the line that they didn't know the rules probably has their dog eating their homework right now as we speak....


  • #78
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Losty Dublin

    People do and have reported countless posts on here. Hundreds of times and with no action taken. It's evidently okay for some people to claim all manner of things with no comeback on here and it's also not okay to expect some level of moderation about it, especially when posts are reported as they arise.

    Perhaps it's time for a new moderator to be appointed and ideally not one who has clear biases guiding them as appears to be the case here.

    Wow!!!!

    Having been the victim of biased moderators in the past, how is Victor biased? He'd rather not go around banning posters, he'd rather that the posting in threads was cool and smooth. For him, banning is the last resort. There is a clear, obvious procedure. If someone lies, prove it on thread.

    Either we continue as we are here or maybe I will contact boards.ie and get them to close Trains and Rail systems seeing as its so disruptive? Or even better, suggest contacting the moderators at Irishrailwaynews to revive their site with an amnesty, where we know not to be so litigious and stupid. Sometimes we don't realise what we had until its gone.

    Your apparent desire to demand bans and infractions left right and centre seems to be an unhealthy import from another website. This section of boards.ie has existed for 7 years with me around without that kind of nonsense, and indeed it is why many of us are here. In fact it has proven a theory of mine regarding how CIE and Iarnrod Eireann has managed to survive so long. This is NOT to insult CIE employees, its to ....question a system.

    "There is no alternative"
    "The railways will close"
    "The sky will fall"

    Without CIE. And we know thats not true anymore.

    If there is blatant misinformation which upsets you, counter it with the iron logic of rational debate. Do you notice that as a result of what you and others have taught me, I have toned down my anti-CIE rhetoric? There will be others here who will never change, but a shut mouth catches no flies. Sometimes its best for an suspected idiot to keep their mouth shut, rather than have them open it and leave no suspicion on what they are. And I've opened mine often enough.

    By all means report posts for real reasons, such as blatant insults. But I am now seeing why words are banned. Its because of a feigned offence. I said it in January and got banned for 6 months, because I got really angry with the then moderator (Chris) who was over the top, and not knowledgeable on this topic. This is why words - check the charter were banned. And now, finally....evidence.....

    Evidence to prove a theory I have from the hobby of permanent offence.....

    The theory being - "Get words banned to get posters we disagree with banned"

    Ingenious. Especially when you had a moderator like Chris, who had'nt a clue about this highly specialised area.

    Innocuous little things, like food names, and common names of English people. About as funny as cancer to enthusiasts, but to common garden 'normals' and every day users, all part and parcel of perception. The same perception that applies in the Ministry of Transport when Sir Humphrey Appleby encounters Moses on Motorrail praying for his branchline in the West back.

    "Oh Jesus Leo, Martin tried dealing with this lot when we had the cash. What the eff do we say to them this time?"


  • #79
    Losty Dublin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,239 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    dermo88 wrote: »
    Wow!!!!

    Having been the victim of biased moderators in the past, how is Victor not biased? He'd rather not go around banning posters, he'd rather that the posting in threads was cool and smooth....
    If there is blatant misinformation which upsets you, counter it with the iron logic of rational debate. Do you notice that as a result of what you and others have taught me, I have toned down my anti-CIE rhetoric? There will be others here who will never change, but a shut mouth catches no flies. Sometimes its best for an suspected idiot to keep their mouth shut, rather than have them open it and leave no suspicion on what they are.

    Dermo, it's rather simple.

    Were you or I to accuse, let's say, Parsi, of robbing customers when he is in work, lazing on the job, being rude or abusive to customers, breaking laws, calling occupations scumbags without foundation we'd be rightly taken to task without proving the case to be true. Similarly, if you posted information on how to, say, pay online taxes that was hopelessly inaccurate then you would expect to be taken to task and rightly so and ideally by the powers that be who are aware that it's misleading or incorrect.

    Sadly that's not happening here yet when it's pointed out where the moderation has a shortcoming the finger is bitten off of you by them whilst the guilty party walks free. There isn't a need to ban people in general (Bar the out and out ****-stirrer) but there is a need to nip blatant lies and untruths and misinformation or some of the insults in the bud in order to maintain some civil flow on here and to keep it all happy. We all are supposed to abide by basic rules here; it's not a lot to ask for them to apply to all of us, is it?

    Anyway I've said my bit on this and no more of it :)


  • #80
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    Any time that happens - I will be only too happy to assist you and others in counteracting the post(s) with rational constructed argument.


  • #81
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    dermo88 wrote: »
    I got really angry with the then moderator (Chris) who was over the top, and not knowledgeable on this topic.
    a moderator like Chris, who had'nt a clue about this highly specialised area.
    and who in my opinion had a hatred for yourself judgement day and dwcommuter, and who would have definitely hated me, in my opinion those certain words were banned specially to ban you 3 as mentioned. we need to forget about IRN and who was banned for this or that or who said this or who said that, its irrelevant and certainly isn't going to help the railway we all love so dear and wish to see survive.

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



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  • #82
    corktina
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,733 ✭✭✭✭corktina


    end of the road wrote: »
    the railway we all love so dear and wish to see survive.

    yep that's me... I want to see it survive , it will only do so by concentrating it's resources on what it does well which makes more sense than people wanting it to recapture former glories as a local transport and freight railway

    The priorities in my mind are improving and electrifying Dublin (and also possibly Cork) commuter services (including Outer Suburban) amd iimproving Inter City so that it not only competes with the Motorways but knocks them into a cocked hat!


  • #83
    end of the road
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,140 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    corktina wrote: »
    The priorities in my mind are improving and electrifying Dublin (and also possibly Cork) commuter services (including Outer Suburban)
    i agree, probably the best time to do such electrification is when the 2900s are nearing retirement (the 26 and 28s will be gone before such electrification would happen if it ever does) start on dublin which will then allow the 29s to be cascaded down to cork and limerick, start cork a few months to a year before retirement which would hopefully mean the 29s being taken out of service at their expected life expirey date. we don't want another 2700 mark 3 or 8200 shambles, so this would probably be the best option

    I'm very highly educated. I know words, i have the best words.



  • #84
    dermo88
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,000 ✭✭✭dermo88


    end of the road

    "probably the best time to do such electrification is when the 2900s are nearing retirement (the 26 and 28s will be gone before such electrification would happen if it ever does) start on dublin which will then allow the 29s to be cascaded down to cork and limerick, start cork a few months to a year before retirement which would hopefully mean the 29s being taken out of service at their expected life expirey date. we don't want another 2700 mark 3 or 8200 shambles, so this would probably be the best option"

    Interesting. The problem with modern rolling stock is that its not so 'adaptable'. Back in Inchicore days, they could retrofit and rebuild almost anything to a reasonable standard, and it did'nt cost fortunes either.

    How hard would it be to retain the bodyshell and bogies of a 2900, and then rebuild it into an electric? Would it be expensive?


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