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When & How could there be a united Ireland?

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12467…33

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    #92
    RATM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,591 ✭✭✭RATM


    owenc wrote: »
    They don't want anything to do with it, end of story. Try saying that to them and see what you get.

    That doesn't answer the question as to why, if the OO want nothing to do with the Republic, they actually have a number of lodges in the Republic. I not trying to get at you or anything, Im just saying that the OO situation is more complex than saying they want nothing to do with the Republic, especially as some of their members were born as Protestants in the Republic, grew up and were eduacted here and subsequently joined an Orange Lodge here.


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    #93
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I feel it is inevitable. So do the British actually, in the minutes from secret meetings with SF/IRA the British say that the PIRA and they are on two different roads heading the same direction, at different speeds. Its in those videos I linked earlier. Maybe they are in the IRA tread.

    The British will do whatever creates the least hassle and unless sectarian identity disappears the least hassle option will always be to leave Northern Ireland independent of the Republic.


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    #94
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Well we have to be careful not to equate protestantism with the OO. The OO are an inherently sectarian and bigoted organisation. Most protestants are none of these things.


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    #95
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    RATM wrote: »
    lets assume the population at the time of referendum was 51% Catholic, 49% Protestant.

    NEWSFLASH: There are people in Northern Ireland who are niether Protestant nor Roman Catholic :rolleyes:


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    #96
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    The British will do whatever creates the least hassle and unless sectarian identity disappears the least hassle option will always be to leave Northern Ireland independent of the Republic.
    I disagree. They want to leave but will not do so until it is democratically decreed. It is a large drain on their finances. The British have described unionists as "sponges"
    Of course Unionists, while considering themselves British have a history of viciously defying Westminster.


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    #97
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    NEWSFLASH: There are people in Northern Ireland who are niether Protestant nor Roman Catholic :rolleyes:
    Damn Jedis.


    Seriously though, religion is playing less and less of a role these days.


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    #98
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    NEWSFLASH: There are people in Northern Ireland who are niether Protestant nor Roman Catholic :rolleyes:

    Yes and thats estimated at over 10% and growing. I will be one of them in the next census.


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    #99
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Well we have to be careful not to equate protestantism with the OO. The OO are an inherently sectarian and bigoted organisation. Most protestants are none of these things.

    Yes i have nothing to do with the OO nor has anyone else in my family.


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    #100
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    If only it were so simple. The British have a vested interest in peace and stability in the North. It may cost a lot to maintain the North now but it would cost an awful lot more if things turned back to the bad old days. Getting rid of the North isn't as simple as turning to the Republic and saying 'here, you take it'.

    There's really no good reason to re-unite the two parts of the country and I think people know that by now. Selfish nationalism is the sole motivator for modern day 32 county republicanism.


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    #101
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Seriously though, religion is playing less and less of a role these days.

    Not to mention an increacing number of immigrants (Protestant, Catholic or Otherwise) most of whom are presumably either happy enough to remain in the UK (otherwise why did they come here ?) or are not particularly bothered either way.


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    #102
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    Not to mention an increacing number of immigrants most of whom are presumably either happy enough to remain in the UK (otherwise why did they come here ?) or are not particularly bothered either way.

    Yes all the immigrants i know have came here because of that, another reason to keep Ni in the uk as it gives us more money.


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    #103
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    Bebs wrote: »
    If only it were so simple. The British have a vested interest in peace and stability in the North. It may cost a lot to maintain the North now but it would cost an awful lot more if things turned back to the bad old days. Getting rid of the North isn't as simple as turning to the Republic and saying 'here, you take it'.

    There's really no good reason to re-unite the two parts of the country and I think people know that by now. Selfish nationalism is the sole motivator for modern day 32 county republicanism.
    Obviously it is not that simple. Churchill seemed to think it was though. Selfish nationalism? How ignorant.


    When it is democratically decided that Ireland is to be united it will happen.


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    #104
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes all the immigrants i know have came here because of that, another reason to keep Ni in the uk as it gives us more money.
    The North is a drain on the UK economy.


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    #105
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Obviously it is not that simple. Churchill seemed to think it was though. Selfish nationalism? How ignorant.


    When it is democratically decided that Ireland is to be united it will happen.

    If i were you i wouldn't say that it may never happen.


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    #106
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    I think it will, all the trends are pointing that way. Wont happen today or tomorrow of course.


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    #107
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The North is a drain on the UK economy.

    Ugh whatever way you put it, "the North" shouldn't be in the uk.


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    #108
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    If i were you i wouldn't say that it may never happen.

    I would never say never but it's far from the foregone conclusion that Mussolini seems to think it to be.


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    #109
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I think it will, all the trends are pointing that way. Wont happen today or tomorrow of course.

    What if the government bring in all the mainland parties and most people start voting for them like in scotland, what happens then.


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    #110
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bebs wrote: »
    I would never say never but it's far from the foregone conclusion that Mussolini seems to think it to be.

    Yes he seems to think its going to happen in the near future.


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    #111
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Ugh whatever way you put it, "the North" shouldn't be in the uk.
    Ok. Thats good.
    owenc wrote: »
    What if the government bring in all the mainland parties and most people start voting for them like in scotland, what happens then.
    Don't quite follow you here....


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    #112
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The North is a drain on the UK economy.

    If this is indeed the case wouldnt it be an even bigger drain on the Irish economy for a very long time following unification
    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    When it is democratically decided that Ireland is to be united it will happen.

    "When" and "democratically" dont really fit well in the same sentance surely ?


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    #113
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    The set up of cross border bodies is a step towards unification I believe.


    Unionist thought so too, RE Council of Ireland, Sunningdale.

    To be honest those bodies are nothing close to a step toward unification. They were basically given so that Sinn Fein could pretend they got something for nationalists in the GFA. Those kind of bodies exist between sovereign states with no intention of unifying all over the world.
    Denerick wrote:
    They did try and march in Dublin and a few troublemakers caused a riot. I sincerely believe that that single incident set back the cause of unification more than any atrocity of the Troubles. The message going north was that Orangemen are not entitled to the same constitutional rights and priviliges inherent to all Irishmen. I don't blame them for not trusting the Republic, or its often narrow minded people.

    That wasn't a normal march. That was set up by a guy called Willie Frazer who acts as a kind of figurehead for IRA victims. He's had a tough life as many members of his family were murdered by republicans but he's not the smartest and in my opinion has a nasty streak to him. I fully believe the dublin riots were exactly what he wanted to happen. The parade was for victims of republicanism and I believe he was implying dublin people were responsible. I guess he didn't realise that the riot happened on the same street as the anti-ira protests in the early 90s.

    Its worth watching his youtube channel to appreciate what kind of guy he is. Check out the bloody sunday ones in particular

    www.youtube.com/fairmedia1


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    #114
    Wolfe Tone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,670 ✭✭✭✭Wolfe Tone


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes he seems to think its going to happen in the near future.
    I have said multiple times that I feel it will happen in my lifetime, and that 50 years is realistic estimate.


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    #115
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    If this is indeed the case wouldnt it be an even bigger drain on the Irish economy for a very long time following unification

    They couldn't cope with it and they could never give us the money that the uk have given us, and i don't care if yous show me facts and figures the irish government could never give Northern Ireland the money that uk has given us.


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    #116
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    I have said multiple times that I feel it will happen in my lifetime, and that 50 years is realistic estimate.

    Well its not for happening thats far too close, i'd say at least about 70 years.


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    #117
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    Yes he seems to think its going to happen in the near future.

    Near or far, it's still outlandish to say that it's definitely going to happen.

    In all likelihood the North will follow the South and the issue will cease to become a defining one and politics will shift to focus primarily on healthcare, education, jobs and politicians expenses and all the other stuff a normal democracy deals with. The national question will just become the preserve of a few die hard nationalists just as it has in the south.


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    #118
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    MUSSOLINI wrote: »
    Ok. Thats good.


    Don't quite follow you here....

    If they brought in labour and lib dems etc and people starting changing to voting for them ( i mean after all they run the country.) what would happen, there would be no nationalists etc then.


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    #119
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    NEWSFLASH: There are people in Northern Ireland who are niether Protestant nor Roman Catholic :rolleyes:

    When you say Catholic or Protestant when referring to NI you aren't really talking about religion.

    When we fill out forms for jobs here you have to tick a box saying you're from the protestant or catholic community whether you practice religion or not

    The only ones who don't are immigrants from outside Ireland/Britain


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    #120
    Bebs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 111 ✭✭Bebs


    owenc wrote: »
    They couldn't cope with it and they could never give us the money that the uk have given us, and i don't care if yous show me facts and figures the irish government could never give Northern Ireland the money that uk has given us.

    Absolutely. How could it hope to match the UK's generosity when it wouldn't be able to afford the same largess to its own people?


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    #121
    owenc
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,524 ✭✭✭owenc


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    When you say Catholic or Protestant when referring to NI you aren't really talking about religion.

    When we fill out forms for jobs here you have to tick a box saying you're from the protestant or catholic community whether you practice religion or not

    The only ones who don't are immigrants from outside Ireland/Britain

    Yes but theres a separate one for your religion, and that background thing wouldn't work because a catholic could live in a protestant area and have to tick that off.


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