Ring advice, Antwerp?

falconeer · 24-05-2015 10:33pm #1

Hey so im planning to propose to my girlfriend and am looking for ring advice, ive been browsing through the threads on here for the last week and have picked up some good stuff, however i feel im more confused than when i started unfortunately.

I know for a fact she would like to pick the ring so at least I don't have to go do that part by myself and will likely propose with a claddagh ring as a stand in but now i have to decide what my best option is for the actual ring. From reading everything here it looks like Antwerp is the place to go abroad however my budget is 2000-2500 so im not sure if its actually gonna be worth it and would i be better going somewhere irish with ab8udget like that? Im planning on heading into bespoke rings on kildare street next week to do a recce and that may help me decide.

Also tips on who look at in Antwerp would be appreciated, so far the only name ive really heard is that joseph katz guy but would like to check as many options as possible too.

Thanks in advance

Tigger · 25-05-2015 1:10am

bringing a woman away to get a ring is better than buying a ring "here"
even if "here" is Antwerp
at the end of the day the value is the perceived value and any story you build into it is a big deal
so go to "antwerp"sic on the cheap and let her pick the best ring in your budget
then get it valued at home (the value you be nicely higher for various reasons) now the ring has providence which always adds "value"
tldr

thingsa mean more if there is a story the journey is the destination

its what i did 10 years ago and its still the story every time she shows the ring

frogstar · 25-05-2015 10:41am

Def go antwerp. It's what we did and your budget is good for there. The experience is great and a story as previous poster says. We spent 2 nights there. I do think value here is getting better

Joe katz, Phillip Harold, geratti, diamond land all good starts. Diamond land have many already made

Note you can haggle with cash. And can contact them before hand

Good luck

falconeer · 26-05-2015 10:40am

Thanks, that helps decide thing's alright.

Whats the procedure exactly? Im definitely gonna get in touch first and try and have some stuff to show here before we go, the plan is to propose and fly out the next day so ill have a bunch of stuff for her to look at that so she has some idea of what she wants when we get there.

Roughly how long does the whole thing take? Like once you have gone and decided what you want either if it just needs to be resized or built from scratch? If its a custom one is it better to stay for the whole time its being made or is it too long and your better flying back to collect it another time?

beertons · 26-05-2015 10:45am

Took us about 8 weeks from going over to ring on finger. We went to Harold, had booked an appointment with him and he closed the shop for us so we had his full attention. His prices are in dollars though, so take that into consideration, the terrible exchange rate at the mo.

falconeer · 26-05-2015 9:57pm

So it takes a while then to have a ring fully made? How about if its just a resize of one we spot? Basically whats the ideal time to have over there? And is it possible to not have to fly back over to pick it up or is that part of what needs to be done?

beertons · 26-05-2015 10:46pm

Harold can post it back, he's covered under his insurance policy. I know it sounds mad, but that's what we did. I don't think it's as Picking a ring and making it smaller/bigger is a slow job, he won't be doing it there and then.

Seanie_H · 26-05-2015 11:04pm

We went to Antwerp with a specific ring targeted, it was in an antique shop so not a new build.

However we thought while we there that'd we go to a couple of the well known shops to have a look. We were a bit underwhelmed. I suppose the process of picking a stone which you like the look seemed a bit contrived. Ultimately it's a stone in your budget which eventually you'll warm to and similar for the ring. The differences between each stone is generally minimal for layman like me. Some jewellers we talked to in Dublin assured us they have the same diamonds and prices as Antwerp and that the day that the Dublin jewellers ripped off people is gone. Of course they would say that but I strongly considered giving Abana in Powerscourt or business.

However, we went on a day trip to Antwerp and had a ball. Lovely Michelin star lunch, great story and a ring that she's delighted with. That's the win vs. any super savings.

One tip was that as we settled on our decision early in the day, we pushed them for sizing and alteration that day so we could bring it home. That saves you/them insurance in postage which depends on the value of the ring but can be pricey enough. It's in their interest too. That'll only be of use if you're going for one that's already made.

falconeer · 02-06-2015 2:44pm

Thanks for all the advice! Have contacted those suggested in Antwerp, also gonna have a look at some Irish jewellers just to see what the options are available.

I do think she would love the antwerp trip however and will likely end up going there. Thanks again and ill probably be back with more questions

frogstar · 02-06-2015 5:35pm

In terms of timing I would suggest 2 nights. That's what we did and we went on a day trip to Bruges

We planned on having a ring made up but I tried one on in one store and fell in love with it. We had cash so got it heavily discounted. I tried it on first. Said we'd think about it, came back that afternoon to pay deposit and it was resized and cleaned the next day.

I don't think all jewellers open weekends so check this first. We went a Tues to Thursday

I do think dublin has come down a lot (even Appleby s! ) since I was there and the dollar is weak at the moment

Another tip, if you can get your wedding bands there too as they will be discounted. We didn't and I regretted it. In the end I had the bands made here but we should have got them all together (esp as my engagement ring was not standard so I had to get one made

Uncle_moe · 04-06-2015 3:51pm

By all means go to Antwerp and enjoy the experience. As for the diamonds, they won't really be much cheaper, any GIA certified stone is going to cost a certain amount depending on size, quality etc but you're better off making sure it is certified because then you know exactly what you;re getting. Any good jewellers will be able to get you a certified stone but you'll just pay a little more.
I don't think there are any savings to be made by going abroad to be honest. If you really want to save loads then the cheapest option will be blue nile.

scrabble1498 · 08-06-2015 7:00pm

Hi guys, gona jump on this if that's ok...just wondering what happens with payment, do you pay deposit and then balance when collecting the ring (if ring can't be made that day we are going to come back to collect it) or do you pay in full? Heading over in a few weeks!

Also does anyone have any experience with joaillerie du centre? Contacted them and Joe Katz!

Thanks

falconeer · 09-06-2015 5:08pm

Curious about payment too, whats the deal with the cash discount? Is it available everywhere and do you need to have agreed it before heading over? I read somewhere that Harold Philippe only accepts $ is this the same everywhere?

beertons · 09-06-2015 5:24pm

Going from memory, we paid a deposit and the balance by credit card. The diamonds are valued in dollars, but he went onto xe.com and just got the exchange rate for us to pay in euros.

scrabble1498 · 10-06-2015 7:34pm

And if you want to pay only in cash, would you do the same - deposit and then balance on collection?

beertons · 10-06-2015 7:54pm

If you have the cash, just pay it all then. Harold isn't going anywhere, he'd be fine with that. Dunno about the others.

Seanie_H · 10-06-2015 8:10pm

We were told that there was a 3k maximum cash payment. Tax/money laundry rules so bear that in mind. That said, only one shop mentioned that to us... I can't imagine it's widely enforced.

Brian_Dart · 10-06-2015 11:46pm

Can't recommend Antwerp highly enough. There is loads to choose from so it's best to narrow down your visits to a handful so that it doesn't take away from the experience. Also avoid some of the ones close to the train station as we were told some of them weren't legit. We spent 2 nights in Bruges and got the train to Antwerp. It's about an hour away. We went to a few of the ones mentioned above and they were all good but we eventually bought ours in Hearts and Arrows as 2 of my friends got theirs there and they are great to deal with. Also, a good tip is if you can pay all in cash, do, because you can haggle a bit more off the price if you pay in cash. It's a VAT thing I think. They show you a few stones and then the ring setting and they make it there and then, it really is priceless to see your engagement ring being made from scratch.
For our trip we did a bit of research on how to get around, and I found out that you can get a 10 trip rail pass for about €75, and this can be used by 2 people each time, so you could get 5 trips each. It may seem expensive but most hour long train trips work out about €14 each way so it pays off in the long run.

Phew sorry about the long post, hope it doesn't melt your head. If you need to know anything else let me know.

Oh ya, and to top it off, we priced the ring when we got home, and it was valued 2.5 times more than what we paid for it. I know it's not about the price, but it's nice to know we got value for money! Plus Belgium is beautiful. Antwerp is worth a day trip but not really nice to stay overnight.

stickybookmark · 16-06-2015 12:37pm

Didn't get our rings in Antwerp but we were supposed to.....so researched it and I know a few that got theirs there as well. One thing to bear in mind it's been mentioned here already - alot of the jewellers are jewish and I don't know if you're familiar with jewish custom but Saturday is 'Shabbat' the sabbath day they don't open. Then Belgium being Belgium they don't open on Sunday either. So actually the weekend is the worst time of the week to go there. If you want maximum choices, higher chance of rings being made there and then, diamond exchange being open etc - go midweek if you can at all. Also cheaper flights! I contacted one jeweler there and got a big rant back about how only 'tourist diamond shops' are open at weekends and the 'real professionals' are open mid week only. I'm sure he was talking through his behind but it put me off and we ended up getting ours in Cork. Enjoy the trip!

TheBrigadier · 17-06-2015 10:02am

For anyone that bought their ring(s) in Antwerp, at what point did you bring up the possibility of a cash discount? I'm currently dealing with a couple of jewellers there via email and I'm wondering if we should agree a possible discount via email or in person if/when I collect (my plan would be to take a surprise trip with herself to get it)?

I wouldn't like to doorstep the guy asking for a discount.

Brian_Dart · 17-06-2015 10:15am

We only discussed that face to face with the jeweller. As far as I remember not all of them will give a discount but it's no harm to ask when they ask how do you want to pay.

There is one guy that was a pain to deal with via email, he came across very rude and abrupt. He is supposed to be very good but we just didn't get a good vibe off him because he tried to discredit every other jeweller there. I think his name was Harold.

Brian_Dart · 17-06-2015 10:22am

TheBrigadier wrote: »

I wouldn't like to doorstep the guy asking for a discount.

Unlike Ireland, they expect a bit of haggling on the buyers part. Firstly on the final cost of the ring, and then when you discuss payment you can ask for a further discount if you pay in full with cash. I don't think you should discuss anything other than your initial budget via email, but expect to go over the budget once you get there

stickybookmark · 17-06-2015 10:25am

That's the guy who sent me the rant! Philip Harold jewellers. He is not open on weekends and claimed only 'tourist shops' were

fits · 17-06-2015 10:47am

Its not very nice.for business owners who make a lot of money from tourists to be talking about them like that.

beertons · 17-06-2015 11:13am

The dollar isn't very strong at the moment. I think a lot of people think that their ring is going to double in value when they get back here. That's not the case at the moment. My sister blamed Harold for that same thing, her ring only increased a few quid when she got it valued here, where as our ring doubled 6 years ago.

scrabble1498 · 18-06-2015 7:43pm

I was in Antwerp on business a while ago and met Philip Harold, he gets really good reviews but I found him to be really pushy - he showed me an uncertified diamond and sent it for a pre-certification appraisal, i didn't know too much about diamonds (hadn't done as much research as I've done now) but he insisted it was a really good diamond, anyway I decided to leave it because wanted a higher colour than the appraisal gave it and when I looked at the appraisal recently it was a really poor diamond!!

VinLieger · 10-08-2015 7:19pm

Right, so I was the OP here, I got permission to create and use a second account only for this thread from the mods in here as my now fiance knows my name on here and also checks boards sometimes for random things so didn't want to take the risk she would be looking in here and spot my posts. Luckily it turns out she was to get ideas for planning her friends hen so thanks to the mods for their help with that!

Now onto what went down in Antwerp.

I had contacted and made bookings with 4 jewelers before going to Antwerp. We had 3 on the Wednesday afternoon with Geretti, Diamondland and Philipe Harold. Then on Thursday morning we also had Joseph Katz.

First of all the diamond district is pretty overwhelming and since neither of us had done anything like this before gave us both a feeling we might be in over our heads even with the research I had done.

So the first appointment was with Geretti who ill simply say was rude. I had contacted each of the jewelers prior with my budget and arranged an appointment time however when we arrived the over riding impression i got was that he really didn't care as he had nothing ready to view and made no attempt to put us at ease when we obviously were a bit nervous. I would not recommend him simply for that fact and his overall demeanor really sent the message that my budget was too low for him to bother that much about. He also was a bit disparaging of other jewelers when we told him we had other appointments so we left there absolutely certain we would not be going back.

The second appointment was in Diamondland. Now the impression we got when arriving here was much better. The person I had been in contact with remembered me which after the first appointment was a huge plus and they showed us lots of what we asked to see and gave her a chance to view lots and get a much better idea of what she might want. They suggested several different cuts and gave us some great options. However they did at one point put a ring twice our budget on her finger that was the only real mark against them as well as a discount they offered to us for an ashure diamond that would last only for that day and as we also had an appointment for the next day I was not prepared to take that without seeing everything we wanted to. I really dislike being pressured like that so was not at all happy with it but I can understand it is simply a sales technique. We left there a lot happier than the first one but still a bit annoyed about the pressure to buy that day to get the discount.

We then had about 40 minutes to walk around and we did a quick view of quite a few shops and window shopped to get a good idea of what else might be available. By that stage she had made a decision on what kind of band she wanted so it was really down to what diamond cut would look best and quality would fit the budget.

Next up was Philippe Harold

This is who we bought from in the end

who I had heard great things about but also the odd bad review so I really was not sure of what to expect here. We didn't actually deal with Harold, it was with his colleague Michael/ Mikael? That might be completely wrong.
The shop is setup quite differently to all the others and does not show the same amount of jewellery in the window as any others so it was difficult to gauge it from the outside.
So the first plus here was that he showed knowledge of the email conversations and was aware of our budget. Also in the email conversations they had provided a huge amount of information on what was available and what we needed to be aware of compared to pretty much zero from anyone else.
Up until now we still did not have a massive idea of what we were looking for apart from a general idea of the band she wanted. And neither of the previous two had tried to help us with that choice and had simply met us with blank expressions when we walked in saying we weren't to sure what we were looking for.
When we sat down and told him the kind of band but we weren't sure of the kind of diamond cut or arrangement instead of the blank expressions everyone else had given us he immediately asked to look at her hands to get an idea of what would look best and due to her having long slender fingers informed us that we could look at pear and baguette's which not everyone can pull off due to finger length. This immediately bumped them up in our regard as they were giving advice and suggestions instead of just throwing a bunch of things at us to see what would stick.
He had a lovely pear cut that was really good quality, already set in the kind of band we were looking for and showed it to us. She was not completely sold on it to begin with but it was a far better experience than anything we had had previously which definitely helped things. We had it all priced up and it came to just at my budget when knocked down very slightly to help us out.
We left there feeling pretty happy and far more confident that we would actually leave Antwerp with something than after the first two.

We then walked around the rest of the diamond district to take a look at each window until our eyes were actually sore from all the sparkling windows full of jewellery.

The next day we had an early appointment with Joseph Katz who I had also heard very good things about and was looking forward to this one.
So first of all his office is in the diamondbank which is pretty intimidating to walk into. Also it turns out to get in there you need some form of ID in this case our passports which he never informed us of. When we finally got in there they explained a bit incredulously that everyone carries ID in the diamond district, however how us being foreigners and only having been there for 1 day were meant to know without him ever mentioning it in our correspondence???

Anyway we finally got up to his office and started chatting. Too be honest he was a bit disparaging about our budget and really had very obviously not got anything available for us to look at even though I had been in touch previously and given him all the relevant info so he would have an idea of what we were looking for. When we described what we had seen the previous day he was adamant we would never get something like that in our price range (we did not tell him that we had seen it exactly in our price range). Overall a very disappointing experience.

We left there and went straight back to Philippe to take one last look at the ring we had seen the previous day which she had been thinking about and looking at the pictures of and really just fallen in love with it. After getting my her size checked we put down our deposit and were given a time the next day for when to collect it once it had been resized. It was ready just as we arrived and we were ecstatic to finally have the whole process finished as we were both quite tired of it all at that stage due to the general rudeness of all the other people we had seen not to mention the general population of Antwerp too.

Overall it wasn’t a horrible experience however I would just advise anyone planning it to be very prepared and know exactly what you are looking for otherwise you might end up having the same kind of experience we did. I also could not recommend Philippe Harold higher as it was by far the best experience we had and one of the reasons we ultimately went with him.

Ring advice, Antwerp?

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