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Christianity Forum.

  • 06-04-2015 4:24am
    #1
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭


    Should the forum not have at least one mod who is an actual Christian, since Benny Cake retired the people who moderate the forum are non believers.

    I've nothing against the current mods, they're fair and good natured folk but I do think an actual Christian should moderate the Forum. For instance you wouldn't have a devout Catholic modding the A&A forum.
    Post edited by Shield on


Comments

  • #2
    Turtwig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    Shhh a lot of posters don't know we're non believers. You risk ruining the humorous pms - my personal fave being a lengthy pm outlining in detail why I'm stupid to believe in Jesus - spoil sport!

    The forum actually gets accused of a Catholic bias. And an anti-Catholic one. And Anti Christian, anti-atheist, anti protestant. You can't win. Whoever mod's the forum needs to be impartial and fair. If we tried to accommodate it by philosophy of beliefs we'd never satisfy everyone. We likely won't do that anyway but I feel this way we give it the best chance.

    Now seriously shush please. The pm's are an unbelievable perk that we don't want to lose.


  • #3
    Canis Lupus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,893 ✭✭✭Canis Lupus


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    I've nothing against the current mods, they're fair and good natured folk

    Isn't that all you need from a mod?


  • #4
    Taltos
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,830 ✭✭✭✭Taltos


    To be honest I am happy with the current team of mods.
    The forum appears to be active. There are few if any escalations. This is the first thread in a while I can remember where someone is asking for a change.

    Not trying to belittle your criticism here but sometimes while it really works to get an expert in the field it is often better to get someone who is not emotionally or morally obliged to the forum to help guide it.

    Added to that when vetting mods we don't ask them their faith or their beliefs, we instead look to how they've contributed to the forum in question as well as their history across the site to see if the admin team think they would make a good mod. Yup we all make mistakes but adding in the mix of checking their religion just doesn't sit right with me on too many levels, a lot more than I can list here to be frank.


  • #5
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    In the same way that we don't look at who prospective Soccer mods support, or which party possible new Politics mods might vote for, we don't vet any of the mods under the Religion & Spirituality grouping to see what religion they are a member of, if any. Mods are chosen based on their posting history and general contributions to the forum, and more generally to the site as a whole. To apply any other criteria would be unfair and could deprive some forums of excellent mods just because, and using Christianity as an example, the top 5 candidates weren't Christians. I'm not saying that no. 6 on the list wouldn't be a good mod, but their faith shouldn't be the deciding factor as to whether they're the right person for the job. I won't say we get it 100% right, but I think we have a pretty good success rate when it comes to appointing new mods.


  • #6
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Should the forum not have at least one mod who is an actual Christian, since Benny Cake retired the people who moderate the forum are non believers.
    We were all sorry that benny_cake decided to hang up his boots, not because he was a believer, but because he was a great mod. The important thing was we got another great mod - with an interest - to replace him.
    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    For instance you wouldn't have a devout Catholic modding the A&A forum.
    If that devout catholic was thick-skinned, game for a laugh and could use incense and incantations to clean up a trainwreck, then I'd have no objections should an opening come up!

    We don't ask the applicant's religion, though it helps if you have a sibling who is also a mod, or if one of your parents were a mod before. :D


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  • #7
    padd b1975
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,784 ✭✭✭✭padd b1975


    Has the Atheism and Agnosticism forum ever had a mod who was openly religious?


  • #8
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    padd b1975 wrote: »
    Has the Atheism and Agnosticism forum ever had a mod who was openly religious?
    Asiaprod, who was mod for years is a Buddhist, although whether that counts is open to interpretation.


  • #9
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,497 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Should the forum not have at least one mod who is an actual Christian, since Benny Cake retired the people who moderate the forum are non believers.

    There is an awful lack of vocations at the minute.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #10
    Manach
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Perhaps advertise any vacancies has a means of side-stepping purgatory given the amount of postings that have a tendency to devolve into flame-wars. Moderation there is more akin to UN actions, sans air support.


  • #11
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »
    Should the forum not have at least one mod who is an actual Christian, since Benny Cake retired the people who moderate the forum are non believers.

    I've nothing against the current mods, they're fair and good natured folk but I do think an actual Christian should moderate the Forum. For instance you wouldn't have a devout Catholic modding the A&A forum.

    That explains a lot, I was shocked at the abuse I got on the thread discussing the up and coming referendum. Seriously, it's like anyone who questioned the referendum regarding gay marriage has left the discussion. Very one sided.... very disconcerting.:(


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  • #12
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,053 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Greaney - If you are being abused, report it. The sooner its reported the sooner it can be actioned. Mods are volunteers - on average while I'm the mod of my forums 24/7, I'd only have to regularly spend about 5 hours per week maybe less modding, unless there is an issue that requires my attention - which is generally brought to a mod's attention as a report. Seeing as I work 40-45 hours a week, commute 5 hours a week, sleep, eat, and maintain a home, and have unplugged hobbies I enjoy, I reckon like myself most mods won't always be able to personally follow each post in every thread.

    As far as one-sided debates, the issue looks one-sided on the site at least from the AH Polls. It's impractical to ensure some type of 50:50 conversation. To wit, Global Climate Change debates: about 1% of scientists are climate change deniers. So is it representative of say, A news show, to bring in 2 talking-heads 1 for and 1 against human-driven climate change - or, would it be more representative to bring in 99 scientists for and 1 scientist against? Similarly in a forum thread you may have 99 posters for and 1 against; while that might be intimidating, that is simply the demographic and there is not that much for the mods to do other than make sure people post at or above the standard of the site rules and forum charters.


  • #13
    Greaney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭Greaney


    I understand, although, because some of the moderators were also in the conversation, you can understand that I don't really have much faith (unfortunate choice of words) in reporting to Mods who clearly seemed to have an opinion on the matter, that they didn't share with me:o.

    I'll just steer clear of it till the referendum is over.... I'm not gonna lie, I'm a bit thin skinned that way


  • #14
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,506 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    While mods of course get to have their own opinions ,mods don't get to inflict their opinions in anyway onto users or inject them into their modding decisions. Mods who did that would be useless as mods and would be removed. And we do have mechanisms in place such as the Helpdesk and DRP to ensure that there's not only oversight of mod actions, but public oversight at that. It's your duty as a responsible user to report questionable posts, and it's the mods duty to act on them impartially.


  • #15
    MugMugs
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,875 ✭✭✭✭MugMugs


    Dades wrote: »
    Asiaprod, who was mod for years is a Buddhist,
    tumblr_m0wb2xz9Yh1r08e3p.jpg


  • #16
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    I was linked to this thread by another user.
    While I appreciate that the charter guides decisions on issues. How can someone who has no firsthand knowledge of Christianity know whether anything being said is correct or off the wall.

    To my mind the best mod on the forum was PDN.

    Since people are asking about mods suitability to a forum, can I ask are their any mods in Islam who are not Muslims or knowledgeable about the subject as a non Muslim? From reading the forum, it doesn't appear to be the case.


  • #17
    Benny_Cake
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭Benny_Cake


    Kyla Angry Belly wrote: »
    I was linked to this thread by another user.
    While I appreciate that the charter guides decisions on issues. How can someone who has no firsthand knowledge of Christianity know whether anything being said is correct or off the wall.

    I don't think that it's really the role of a moderator to carry out fact checking. Usually another Boards member is along shortly enough to do just that! All that can be asked of a mod is that they keep things within the boundaries set out by the charter.

    My two cents: a good mod should have an interest in the subject and be fair-minded. While neither of the current Christianity mods are Christians, they are both excellent at keeping the forum running. From my own experience, I know it's quite a tricky forum to mod, but it's in very good hands, better hands than mine certainly.


  • #18
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,053 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Kyla Angry Belly wrote: »
    I was linked to this thread by another user.
    While I appreciate that the charter guides decisions on issues. How can someone who has no firsthand knowledge of Christianity know whether anything being said is correct or off the wall.

    Well, as an atheist who did a research paper that involved reading 25 different versions of the Exodus, I'd like to point out that the internet makes it painless and expedient to google the information surrounding any ecumenical matter. Researching a religious claim is no more difficult then finding out whether Han or Greedo shot first. Whether or not you may feel someone else's view isn't 'right,' may be a matter of theological perspectives.


  • #19
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Kyla Angry Belly wrote: »
    How can someone who has no firsthand knowledge of Christianity know whether anything being said is correct or off the wall.
    To add to what has been said about the role of a moderator, not believing in something by no means precludes you from having firsthand knowledge of it, or indeed from being authoritative on the subject.

    In my experience non-believers who take an objective interest in religion have often more accurate knowledge of the tenets of that religion than those who claim to follow it.


  • #20
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,657 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    Kyla Angry Belly wrote: »

    Since people are asking about mods suitability to a forum, can I ask are their any mods in Islam who are not Muslims or knowledgeable about the subject as a non Muslim? From reading the forum, it doesn't appear to be the case.

    On first glance, Tom Dunne looks to be the only forum-specific moderator of the Islam forum, and he's not Muslim.


  • #21
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,497 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Kyla Angry Belly wrote: »
    I was linked to this thread by another user.
    While I appreciate that the charter guides decisions on issues. How can someone who has no firsthand knowledge of Christianity know whether anything being said is correct or off the wall.

    Why would you assume that a non-believer would have no firsthand knowledge of Christianity? Especially in a country where 84% say on the census that they are Catholics, and over 90% of primary schools are Catholic.

    Most non-believers in Ireland were baptised, communed and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church and only rejected it in their teenage years or later, sometimes much later - to say they have no first-hand knowledge of a religion they were brought up in is rather arrogant and insulting.

    Scrap the cap!



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  • #22
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,510 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Most non-believers in Ireland were baptised, communed and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church and only rejected it in their teenage years or later, sometimes much later - to say they have no first-hand knowledge of a religion they were brought up in is rather arrogant and insulting.

    I must agree with this, its seriously arrogant and insulting to make such a claim.

    I went through primary and secondary school education in a mixture of nuns and christian brother schools. I've done the mass thing, communion, etc etc throughout.

    With all this first hand experience and knowledge and yet I do not consider myself a catholic, however unlike the VAST majority of Catholics I have read a large bulk of the bible.


  • #23
    uck51js9zml2yt
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭uck51js9zml2yt


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Why would you assume that a non-believer would have no firsthand knowledge of Christianity? Especially in a country where 84% say on the census that they are Catholics, and over 90% of primary schools are Catholic.

    Most non-believers in Ireland were baptised, communed and confirmed in the Roman Catholic Church and only rejected it in their teenage years or later, sometimes much later - to say they have no first-hand knowledge of a religion they were brought up in is rather arrogant and insulting.

    Firstly I never referred to the Roman Catholic Denomination in my post.

    I referred to Christianity, the two are not necessarily the same.
    I've known some who knew God and I've met others whose lives were the antithesis of everything they said they believed.

    A Christian is one who is a follower of Christ, who had a relationship with Him. Faith in Him.Has known and experienced His Salvation through repentance and faith. And believes the Bible is His Word, written by men and Inspired by the Holy Spirit. They also seek to obey it and obey God.

    Anything else is not Christian and only a denomination.

    Its fine knowing all about something but unless a person has experienced it, its only knowledge and not experience. ( Before anyone says it...I know I said "knowledge"). The testimony and authority of the one who has experienced it is more than someone who has researched it and not experienced it.

    In my 30+ years as a follower of Christ I've found that those who reject something they were once a part of a usually less than favourable towards that which they have rejected. Sometimes the attitude is one of "couldn't care less", other times its antagonistic to down right hostile. And as you said,people who went through the rituals of the RC denomination, many are now "non believers".


    I hope this clarifies my position. In truth, it will probably stir up a hornets nest but that's probably best discussed in the appropriate forum.


  • #24
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,497 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    You referred to Christianity, as most people know RC is the most common Christian denomination in this country

    And yes, yes you did say knowledge, not experience, and now say a very specific type of experience at that, so that's a rather substantial shift of the goalposts.

    What percentage of self-described Christian believers in Ireland, do you reckon, would qualify as 'experienced' by your criteria? Not too many I would guess (just like there will be fewer and fewer 'true Scotsmen' if you continue to raise the bar on who can qualify)

    So you're back to the fierce shortage of vocations again...

    Scrap the cap!



  • #25
    steamengine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,372 ✭✭✭steamengine


    Where did Wolfsbane get to ? If we look at Boards coverage as being for the whole of this island, then there is a sizeable protestant perspective, to be taken on board as well.

    We need all Christian perspectives, of whatever denomination.


  • #26
    Dades
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    steamengine wrote: »
    We need all Christian perspectives, of whatever denomination.
    In posters, maybe, but not in moderators for the reasons already alluded to by ex-mod, Benny_Cake, above.


  • #27
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Kyla Angry Belly wrote: »
    Firstly I never referred to the Roman Catholic Denomination in my post.

    I referred to Christianity, the two are not necessarily the same.
    I've known some who knew God and I've met others whose lives were the antithesis of everything they said they believed.

    A Christian is one who is a follower of Christ, who had a relationship with Him. Faith in Him.Has known and experienced His Salvation through repentance and faith. And believes the Bible is His Word, written by men and Inspired by the Holy Spirit. They also seek to obey it and obey God.

    Anything else is not Christian and only a denomination.

    Its fine knowing all about something but unless a person has experienced it, its only knowledge and not experience. ( Before anyone says it...I know I said "knowledge"). The testimony and authority of the one who has experienced it is more than someone who has researched it and not experienced it.

    In my 30+ years as a follower of Christ I've found that those who reject something they were once a part of a usually less than favourable towards that which they have rejected. Sometimes the attitude is one of "couldn't care less", other times its antagonistic to down right hostile. And as you said,people who went through the rituals of the RC denomination, many are now "non believers".


    I hope this clarifies my position. In truth, it will probably stir up a hornets nest but that's probably best discussed in the appropriate forum.

    In that case it would be almost impossible to find a mod to.your liking as most "Christians" would only have experience of one denomination.


  • #28
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,497 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    steamengine wrote: »
    We need all Christian perspectives, of whatever denomination.

    You need non-Christian perspectives also, but (historically at least) they have been very unwelcome here.

    Scrap the cap!



  • #29
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    It appears that within the Christianity forum there is a poster - with moderator privileges - advocating in favour of abortion.

    Christianity holds that human life, all human life, is sacred.
    Therefore it is a contradiction that in a category of this site titled "Christianity",
    there is a moderator advocating for the deliberate destruction of human life.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=146852


  • #30
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    I see so called Christians advocating for the deliberate destruction of human life everywhere. Anyone who's pro war, anyone who's pro death-penalty, anyone who takes the teachings of the bible literally (and there are a lot of them). Lets not mention the numerous pro-choice Christian groups all over the world too.

    Mods are there to keep the peace and clean up messes, they are not there to be advocates for and on behalf of the given topic of discussion.


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  • #31
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Tbh it is probably more open and transparent to let mods post views and opinions as normal users. I mean, not letting them post views doesn't somehow eradicate those views or anything.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #32
    P_1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    hinault wrote: »
    It appears that within the Christianity forum there is a poster - with moderator privileges - advocating in favour of abortion.

    Christianity holds that human life, all human life, is sacred.
    Therefore it is a contradiction that in a category of this site titled "Christianity",
    there is a moderator advocating for the deliberate destruction of human life.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/member.php?u=146852

    A moderator is there to ensure debate doesn't turn to argument, nothing is stopping them from engaging in said debate.


  • #33
    hinault
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,932 ✭✭✭hinault


    Dav wrote: »
    Mods are there to keep the peace and clean up messes, they are not there to be advocates for and on behalf of the given topic of discussion.

    The moderator in this instance is advocating for and on behalf of abortion however.

    In a thread about Christianity.


  • #34
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,053 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    hinault wrote: »
    The moderator in this instance is advocating for and on behalf of abortion however.

    In a thread about Christianity.

    OK? Again, not all sects of Christianity inherently oppose abortion; at least, some people identifying as Christians will also debate in a pro-choice fashion. Similarly, you may encounter a homeosexual christian. Whats the problem? Just seems part of the debate - the fact the person is a moderator has nothing to do with that opinion.


  • #35
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,788 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    hinault wrote: »
    The moderator in this instance is advocating for and on behalf of abortion however.

    In a thread about Christianity.

    It isn't a thread about christianity, it is a thread about the sanctity of life.

    MrP


  • #36
    Ted_YNWA
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71,799 ✭✭✭✭Ted_YNWA


    hinault wrote: »
    The moderator in this instance is advocating for and on behalf of abortion however.

    In a thread about Christianity.

    People are different. If there was only allowed to be Pro-Christian views posted in the forum & anything that is anti is banned, the usage of forum would end up spiraling. Boards needs diversity to ensure this does not happen.

    This mod is entitled to his opinion on abortion, as long as that opinion does not influence moddly action it makes no difference.

    You need opposing different opinions for a debate to continue.

    Otherwise goes nowhere.

    "abortion is wrong"

    "Yes, it is"

    "agree, with the both of you"


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  • #37
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    hinault wrote: »
    The moderator in this instance is advocating for and on behalf of abortion however.

    In a thread about Christianity.

    It's not a thread about Christianity though it's a thread about abortion in the Christianity forum.


  • #38
    Nody
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,334 CMod ✭✭✭✭Nody


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    It's not a thread about Christianity though it's a thread about abortion in the Christianity forum.
    And? Are you for example even aware of the 1400 clergymen who helped American women with illegal abortions before the Roe case? Or how about Catholics for choice who's president states:
    Jon O’Brien, a devout Catholic and president of Catholics for Choice, explained that Catholicism values the expertise of the faith’s great scholars, and that among them, Saint Augustine and Saint Aquinas did not consider a fetus in the earliest stages of pregnancy to be a person. The Catholic faith is rooted in emphasizing the importance of following one’s conscience, he said, and for some women that will mean choosing to terminate a pregnancy because that is what is best as they see it.

    Being a Christian does not define you being for or against abortion in any way; or are you saying that only your version of Christianity and it's interpretation is suppose to be allowed?


  • #39
    Delirium
    Moderators Posts: 51,859 ✭✭✭✭Delirium


    MrPudding wrote: »
    It isn't a thread about christianity, it is a thread about the sanctity of life.

    MrP

    It's also the title of the thread, originally the topic was the pertaining to the videos released by a pro-life group regarding Planned Parenthood.

    Until about post 106 (of 186 currently) , I had essentially stayed focussed on the topic of the videos. Discussing whether is was a hatchet job (due to editing of original video/ unproven claims of illegal sales of body parts) or actual investigative journalism.

    Then discussion shifted to abortion in general, because a poster put it on pro-choice posters to defend their position. Which by hinaults complaint/reasoning, pro-choice posters should not be permitted to respond to.:confused:

    And personally if it had been the case that modding the forum meant I would be censored/ expected to agree with some ambigious Christian view, then I'd not have accepted the position tbh. Some of the most robust discussions I've had have been in that forum and I'd rather not give that opportunity up.

    As a final note, any time a poster has complained about my modding, I've always been quite quick to direct them to take their complaints to co-mods/CMods/Helpdesk etc. My priority is that the forum is active and relatively trouble-free. My mod tag doesn't come into that.

    If you can read this, you're too close!



  • #40
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,646 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Nody wrote: »
    And? Are you for example even aware of the 1400 clergymen who helped American women with illegal abortions before the Roe case? Or how about Catholics for choice who's president states:


    Being a Christian does not define you being for or against abortion in any way; or are you saying that only your version of Christianity and it's interpretation is suppose to be allowed?

    What is my version of Christianity?


  • #41
    Dav
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭Dav


    Yea, I think we're done with this particular issue, we're not interested in Feedback being used to carry on a debate from elsewhere.


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