Reform Alliance "Monster Meeting" RDS 25th January

K-9 · 25-01-2014 11:41pm

Reform Alliance seems a bit of a misnomer then going by the reaction of 80% of the audience. Repeal Alliance would be more apt.

road_high · 26-01-2014 1:19am

Birroc wrote: »

Reform Alliance, listen up...if you are to gain any credibility you will have to drop Healy Eames and smartish.
She combines all the worst practices and traits of a bad Irish politician with utter STUPIDITY. You have already lost the Galway vote methinks.

She represents everything that is wrong with Irish politics in one person. Corrupt, self-centred/serving, out of touch, irrelevant ego-maniac that nobody even voted for or elected (I understand she squirmed her way into the Seanad for some unknown reason).
If she represents "reform" then I'll take the status-quo all day long thanks.

road_high · 26-01-2014 1:24am

Reform Alliance = Lucinda Creighton clambering for her seat to keep her snout in the trough.

road_high · 26-01-2014 1:48am

Nodin wrote: »

....apparently Ronan Mullen is there, which rather underlines the sentiment expressed in post 78.

I actually laughed to myself reading that he was there. He "represents" such a narrow minority of the broader Irish society, to call him "Reform" in any sense is a complete joke. This really is going no-where.

Instead of reform, what the likes of him and his views (which he is perfectly entitled to have btw) would like to do is transport us back to the 1950s with no divorce, no gay marriage or any forward thinking societal realities.

Reekwind · 26-01-2014 1:58am

I'm not sure if anyone read it, but I thought that Paul Howard nailed it in the IT the other week:

"Well, Lucinda and her cohorts are talking about how they’re going to fill a void in Irish politics. Because middle-class, conservative Catholics have never had their voice heard, have they?"

RobertKK · 26-01-2014 2:27am

road_high wrote: »

Reform Alliance = Lucinda Creighton clambering for her seat to keep her snout in the trough.

I think you got her wrong, she was a minister so had her snout in the trough. FG sent out messages to the prolife groups before the election telling them they would not legislate for abortion so the prolife groups would endorse FG.
All the ones with their snouts in the trough are in the FG parliamentary party.

Lucinda Creighton lost her ministerial job, for endorsing a pre-election promise.
All we have now is FG who are a bunch of liars in government, as Pat Rabbite said, you tell lies to get elected, sure thats what you do, this passes as democracy...

RobertKK · 26-01-2014 2:29am

Reekwind wrote: »

I'm not sure if anyone read it, but I thought that Paul Howard nailed it in the IT the other week:

"Well, Lucinda and her cohorts are talking about how they’re going to fill a void in Irish politics. Because middle-class, conservative Catholics have never had their voice heard, have they?"

I think hell would freeze over before the IT endorses Lucinda given they have no problem with killing the unborn.

spank_inferno · 26-01-2014 2:34am

RobertKK wrote: »

I think hell would freeze over before the IT endorses Lucinda given they have no problem with killing the unborn.

Ooooh-k

Danger Will Robinson.

Sierra Oscar · 26-01-2014 2:58am

RobertKK wrote: »

I think you got her wrong, she was a minister so had her snout in the trough. FG sent out messages to the prolife groups before the election telling them they would not legislate for abortion so the prolife groups would endorse FG.

I think this is does a good job of illustrating why the Reform Alliance is quickly going nowhere.

The TD's behind it only left FG in the first place due to disagreements over the Protection of Life During Pregnancies Bill, which the vast majority of Irish people continue to support. If the RA continues to be dominated by the ultra conservative pro-lifers then it will forever only appeal to a small segment of the electorate. It is time for the old school conservatives to recognize that life is moving on with or without them.

Lucinda had no problem, and still has no problem, with the economic policies that the government are pursuing. Those that are unhappy with politics at the moment want an alternative to the economic and social policies that this government is pursuing. They are not only fixated on the one issue of abortion that many of the people at today's conference seemed to be only interested in.

Also, lol at Lucinda trying to claim that she has some sort of moral backbone over the abortion issue. Does anyone else remember her from her time in TCD? She has led many a (nasty) pro-choice campaign back in her student days. Of course that all had to change when she decided to build her career around the Dublin South East constituency when she wanted to appeal to the conservative FG vote in that area. She will do anything to secure her seat and procure a few extra votes.

road_high · 26-01-2014 3:01am

Reekwind wrote: »

I'm not sure if anyone read it, but I thought that Paul Howard nailed it in the IT the other week:

"Well, Lucinda and her cohorts are talking about how they’re going to fill a void in Irish politics. Because middle-class, conservative Catholics have never had their voice heard, have they?"

Lucinda has really made herself irrelevant to the masses. Outside the lunny, Catholic appose everything brigade that is. Cannot see this gaining any traction, especially after today. What I can see Lucinda running as an Independent on the above platform (and to keep her fat TD salary, of course

). Overtime she may drift back to FG even. Especially if Kenny was gone she could be seen to save face by going back to the mothership without him at the helm.

road_high · 26-01-2014 3:07am

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think this is does a good job of illustrating why the Reform Alliance is quickly going nowhere.

The TD's behind it only left FG in the first place due to disagreements over the Protection of Life During Pregnancies Bill, which the vast majority of Irish people continue to support. If the RA continues to be dominated by the ultra conservative pro-lifers then it will forever only appeal to a small segment of the electorate. It is time for the old school conservatives to recognize that life is moving on with or without them.

Lucinda had no problem, and still has no problem, with the economic policies that the government are pursuing. Those that are unhappy with politics at the moment want an alternative to the economic and social policies that this government is pursuing. They are not only fixated on the one issue of abortion that many of the people at today's conference seemed to be only interested in.

Also, lol at Lucinda trying to claim that she has some sort of moral backone over the abortion issue. Does anyone else remember her from her time in TCD? She has led many a (nasty) pro-choice campaign back in her student days. Of course that all had to change when she decided to build her career around the Dublin South East constituency. She will do anything for to secure her seat and procure a few extra votes.

This is it. It's the economy stupid...

Abortion is a minor fringe issue with most people, and most people I've met have fairly balanced fair views on the subject. Even Conservative Catholics I know don't have the extreme mindset of many at the RA today.

Mr Pseudonym · 26-01-2014 10:58am

touts wrote: »

I have to say the panels were very good. Tom McGuirk and David McWilliams were the stars with Philip Blond and Alison Cowzer close behind. I felt the health discussion lacked a strong chair (June Shannon was very out of her depth given the experience of the panel and the emotive topic).

It was hard to see anything coming out of it. Olivia O'Leary made a good point on the need for a Kamikaze party that would ride the current wave of discontent into power and force through the changes. But it's hard to see any of the current TDs, including the reform alliance TDs, voting that through. Turkey's and Christmas sprung to mind. What is needed is a party led by Tom McGuirk and David McWilliams not Lucinda and the lads. In fact if you were to take the panels and drop them in the cabinet you would get a generally great set of ministers.

I wouldn't call McGuirk a "star", though I thought he very ably chaired the Politics discussion. More than either of the other chairs, he gave the audience a substantial voice. Too me, that lengthy period of audience contributions felt a bit like the clip below from The Thick of It, and the uncritical support for idealistic proposals set the tone for the rest of the day.

I don't agree with you about David McWilliams. He has great charisma, but the more I hear of him (and the more he speaks), the less impressed I am. To an economics illiterate, what he says may be appealing, but his explanation of consumption and the multiplier affect ("What I spend, you earn; what you spend, I earn") would have been too simplistic even for a Leaving Cert class. I suspect that he was greatly hurt by the reaction his Celtic Tiger-demise predictions received, and is somewhat aggrieved that he hasn't subsequently got the credit he feels he deserves, hence why he must keep reminding us how he foresaw the crash. Mid-way through that long and rambling analogy about Ali and Foreman, I heard someone behind me whisper "Shut up, David" - my thoughts exactly.

Shannon was horrendous - combining an unlikeable strict-mother routine with a stumbling opening address. Her inability to control contributors from the audience partly led to the Health discussion being the least interesting of the topics, IMO.

I also disagree about Blond. Nothing he said was was thought-provoking or original despite being billed as a "thinker". His suggestion about recalling TDs entirely misunderstands that, in Ireland, the more national dislike of a TD there is, the more likely the likes of Dublin Central and Tipperary North are to keep their representative in the Dail. I think that the panellists were largely impressive, and think that the five-minute/two-reforms structure prevented them from making anything other than superficial points. Much impressed by Cowzer, though.

I was most surprised by the thunderous applause effectively in opposition to abortion. I would estimate a little less than 75%, but certainly a majority. I thought the crowd would be more mixed than that.

I attended thinking it would be a policy think-in. Instead, the panellists were constrained, and the audience seemed to be a bunch united in their belief on the abortion issue and that everything in modern politics is wrong.

RobertKK · 26-01-2014 3:55pm

road_high wrote: »

This is it. It's the economy stupid...

Abortion is a minor fringe issue with most people, and most people I've met have fairly balanced fair views on the subject. Even Conservative Catholics I know don't have the extreme mindset of many at the RA today.

I think the large prolife marches last year would prove differently.

Some fail to see how every party leader supported the questionable x case legislation.
Every party is supporting SSM.

Social issues are important to lots of people, having all parties the same, leaves room for an alternative.

road_high · 26-01-2014 4:11pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I think the large prolife marches last year would prove differently.

Some fail to see how every party leader supported the questionable x case legislation.
Every party is supporting SSM.

Social issues are important to lots of people, having all parties the same, leaves room for an alternative.

Oh please. Who even remembers those marches? Face reality here. This a complete fringe issue, not in tune with the masses. Yesterday was proof of that. We'll hear a few more little hustings out of this and it will fade away quitely.
Jobs jobs jobs is where it's at.

Reekwind · 26-01-2014 4:25pm

I have to agree with the above. Whatever emotional pull that abortion may have on occasion, it's madness to be forming a party or fraction on right-wing social issues at a time when the key challenges facing the State today are economic and political. I see little evidence that the RA is capable of tackling the latter

goose2005 · 26-01-2014 6:55pm

RobertKK wrote: »

I think the large prolife marches last year would prove differently.

Well-financed and well organised but still unimpressive in size. Every abortion referendum has been won by the pro-choice side.

Some fail to see how every party leader supported the questionable x case legislation.were
Every party is supporting SSM.

Not true. FF went out of their way not to allow actual marriage.

Social issues are important to lots of people, having all parties the same, leaves room for an alternative.

Since when was "social issues" just about sex?

RobertKK · 26-01-2014 8:15pm

goose2005 wrote: »

Well-financed and well organised but still unimpressive in size. Every abortion referendum has been won by the pro-choice side.

Not true. FF went out of their way not to allow actual marriage.

Since when was "social issues" just about sex?

The pro-choice side? The side that both Dama and Bacik were on?

FF are pro-SSM.

I think the life of the unborn is more than "just about sex".

Loafing Oaf · 27-01-2014 12:26am

RobertKK wrote: »

I think the large prolife marches last year would prove differently.

Some fail to see how every party leader supported the questionable x case legislation.
Every party is supporting SSM.

Social issues are important to lots of people, having all parties the same, leaves room for an alternative.

No historical evidence that people vote in any significant numbers on these issues. There was a lot of talk about a new socially conservative party after the wafer-thin passing of the divorce referendum but in the end nothing happened. Most pro-life people are die-hard FF or FG and the piecemeal embrace of the 'liberal agenda' by both parties over the years does not seem to have impacted that at all.

road_high · 27-01-2014 9:52am

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

No historical evidence that people vote in any significant numbers on these issues. There was a lot of talk about a new socially conservative party after the wafer-thin passing of the divorce referendum but in the end nothing happened. Most pro-life people are die-hard FF or FG and the piecemeal embrace of the 'liberal agenda' by both parties over the years does not seem to have impacted that at all.

Whatever about abortion, why would any be opposed to divorce? It's a simple one, if you don't agree with it well don't get getting fcuking divorced then.

cormacjones · 27-01-2014 10:38am

road_high wrote: »

Whatever about abortion, why would any be opposed to divorce? It's a simple one, if you don't agree with it well don't get getting fcuking divorced then.

Well said.

I feel the same way about same sex marriage. If you're don't agree with it, don't marry someone of the same sex.

For Reals · 27-01-2014 4:41pm

Alas, religious types have a 'my way or the highway' attitude. This is Catholic Ireland after all, unless you're in a part of protestant Ireland where its the same mindset sadly. I would love the tables to be flipped where the people cast scorn on those who want to attend a mass in our communities, think of the children etc. Only trouble is non-religious types tend to be more accepting, which is why bigots are free to bleat, ironically.

dublinman1990 · 27-01-2014 4:57pm

I had seen the report on RTE News when the Abortion talk was being mentioned by Lucinda.

I thought that the portrayal of the meeting from RTE News on Saturday was way overly biased and had inflicted a huge lack of self thought on the issue.

It's not a group for my interests however it would be interesting to see if the issues displayed at this meeting might be changed around if they were held in other parts of Ireland. But I will struggle to ever see that happen in the meantime.

raymon · 27-01-2014 5:42pm

I think a Reform Alliance Party would be great. However they should rebrand into something like the Catholic Alliance, or the Old Values party .

This would allow them to take the older, mass going , anti gay, anti abortion, parish pump voters that would traditionally vote Fianna Fail.

In that way you know what you are getting if you were to vote for them.

Good luck to them. I would never vote for such a party, but good luck anyways.

Word of advice though , you should drop Healy Eames.

road_high · 27-01-2014 8:17pm

Laughed out loud when I heard Healy eames was involved. Said to myself this is nothing. Was and never will be a td ffs. She's like hard core ff corruption with none of the rogueish personality...
Lucinda ought to have been a bit more choosy but I guess beggars can't be! There's no one of value involved in this little charade, thankfully. Just a crowd of anti-everything bar the ideal of stay at home-wifey and two point five kids. Life has moved on.

road_high · 27-01-2014 8:27pm

For Reals wrote: »

Alas, religious types have a 'my way or the highway' attitude. This is Catholic Ireland after all, unless you're in a part of protestant Ireland where its the same mindset sadly. I would love the tables to be flipped where the people cast scorn on those who want to attend a mass in our communities, think of the children etc. Only trouble is non-religious types tend to be more accepting, which is why bigots are free to bleat, ironically.

Presume you mean prodestants in Northern Ireland? Always found prodestants in the south to be very easy going about others choices and society, while being conservative in their own lives if they so choose they dont tend to want to force their fairytale inspired believes down others throats. Unlike the hard core Catholics nuts.

For Reals · 27-01-2014 11:31pm

road_high wrote: »

Presume you mean prodestants in Northern Ireland? Always found prodestants in the south to be very easy going about others choices and society, while being conservative in their own lives if they so choose they dont tend to want to force their fairytale inspired believes down others throats. Unlike the hard core Catholics nuts.

Your reading me wrong there. I was simply saying hard core religious types, be they Catholic or Protestant. A blinkered lunatic can come from any religious walk.

road_high · 29-01-2014 11:49pm

4 days later and not a mention of this "Monster rally for Reform/Repression".
Safe to say at this stage a complete and utter Lucinda failure

Reform Alliance "Monster Meeting" RDS 25th January

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