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PAYE workers facing €3,000 tax hit after Budget

  • 14-11-2012 10:11am
    #1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭


    PAYE workers will be hit with tax hikes of more than €3,000 in next month's Budget.

    A new property tax, a higher universal social charge and the lowering of pensions tax relief will suck thousands of euro out of the average household, projections from consultancy firm Grant Thornton show.

    Although income tax rates will remain unchanged, other levies and charges mean that next month's Budget will be one of the worst of the past five.

    The firm also predicts property tax will be applied at 0.25pc on the value of a home.

    But next year the Government has indicated that the property tax will only apply from the second half of the year.

    This would mean a €400,000 house would end up costing €600 next year, made up of €500 in property tax for the half year and €100 for the household charge. Environment Minister Phil Hogan refused to give a pre-Budget leak on the amount householders will pay in property taxes next year, citing his past resignation over similar leaks.

    The minister refused to put a cost on the property tax when he appeared before the Oireachtas Environment Committee.

    He resigned as Minister of State at the Department of Finance in 1995 when Budget details were sent to to a journalist before it was announced.

    Partner with Grant Thornton, Peter Vale, said he also expects Finance Minister Michael Noonan to hike the top rate of the universal social charge (USC) from 7pc to 8pc.

    Pensions

    A new 8pc USC rate will cost a couple with a joint income of €80,000 an extra €690 a year.

    Grant Thornton says employee PRSI – currently levied at 4pc – will be extended to non-employment income such as dividends and rents from property investments.

    A reduction in tax relief on pension contributions from 41pc to 20pc, will cost €2,520 a year for a couple on €80,000.

    And Grant Thornton also expects increases to motor tax rates, higher deposit interest retention tax (DIRT), and levies on cigarettes and alcohol.

    Mr Vale said: "With at least €3.5bn being sought from expenditure savings and tax increases, we will all be feeling considerably less well off on December 5."

    The expected Budgetary hikes will cost a family on €40,000 an extra €3,250. Those on €80,000 will be hit for €5,410, while a family earning €150,000 will be €8,750 out of pocket.

    Meanwhile, figures from the Central Bank show average debt for every man, woman and child is now €38,938. But net wealth – made up of the value of houses and financial assets, minus borrowings– stands at over €90,000.

    - Charlie Weston and Treacy Hogan

    More tax hikes. Property tax, public transport being more or less phased out from what I can see. Should the government not just abandon ship at this stage? Do you think there is any hope on the horizon at this stage? I find this very worrying.


Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    All those as yet unconfirmed increases will affect non PAYE workers as well.

    It's a bit like the thread in Motors that says families will be targeted with motor tax increases.

    Sensationalist bullsh1t.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    I don't see myself ever even trying to get back to work.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭bhamsteve


    Public Sector bashing to begin in 10, 9, 8, 7............


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Just remember guys, we are all in this together.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    The property tax isn't replacing the household charge???????

    It's a separate charge on top???????


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    It's crazy though, everything is so expensive in Ireland, and trying to do business there is nearly impossible with the insurance and costs of running things. They should really make it easier for businesses to thrive, if they insist on f*cking the working man.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,096 ✭✭✭✭the groutch


    At least Dick Turpin wore a mask


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Kite Flying


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,159 ✭✭✭✭phasers


    they're missing a beat here by not taxing the non-wearing of puffy directing pants


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,894 ✭✭✭UCDVet


    I have to be honest, I'm not sure it makes sense to work in Ireland anymore.

    With the euro's value marching steadily down and a seemingly never-ending increase to taxes each year - I'd have a better life-style working the same job in another country.

    Admittedly, I don't have strong family ties here, but that really seems like a problem to me.

    I'm waiting to see how it actually impacts me; but there's a good chance this will be my last year of employment here.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Kite Flying

    Exactly.

    This so called report is from a private firm of accountants. I presume they have not been paid by anyone for producing it, but they are getting loads of free advertising.

    I could have come up with the same thing in a couple of hours.

    The government have more than likely finalised the budget at this stage, allowing for a few tweaks when they see the final tax returns from the self-employed.

    It has been known for the last year that there will have to be more money raised by increasing taxes, so why this is suddenly news is beyond me.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Valetta wrote: »
    It has been known for the last year that there will have to be more money raised by increasing taxes, so why this is suddenly news is beyond me.

    Because everyone is earning less and less and bills, goods, etc are all getting more expensive. Surely enough is enough? The laissez-faire attitude towards all this in Ireland really confuses me.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,925 ✭✭✭✭anncoates


    As always, it's not so much the increase in (indirect) taxes, it's what it's not going to be used for that is galling.
    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    The firm also predicts property tax will be applied at 0.25pc on the value of a home..

    Great news.

    My house is worth fuck all now anyway.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭donegal_road


    Canada in 2013 I think


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,753 ✭✭✭davet82


    3000 euro in reality will turn out to be around 1500 euro and we'll all be grateful that it wasn't as bad as we first thought...

    baa baa baa :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,017 ✭✭✭Leslie91


    Oh to be a banker where it doesn't matter how much you want to get paid, that's not a problem and your pension will be huge and bulletproof.

    Now back to work to make sure I pay enough taxes to keep the fat cats fat.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,944 ✭✭✭fedor.2.


    They can fcuk right off


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 553 ✭✭✭upstairs for coffee


    A load of scaremongering, posturing nonsense. It's called framing. The government before the budget will tell us it will be the toughest budget ever, but then magically it won't be as bad as portrayed and the government can bask in the glory of their achievement. Yawn.

    That's not to say the budget won't be bad, as it will. The people who have achieved in life will be punished.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,404 ✭✭✭✭Vicxas


    Christ almighty, dont they know people need money to SPEND to get the economy moving again....


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,456 ✭✭✭fishy fishy


    i think i will give up my job and go on the dole. I'd be much better off.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 981 ✭✭✭Side Show Bob


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Just remember guys, we are all in this together.

    What crap! You're saying some are more together than others?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Folks, you are all spectacularly missing the point.

    This report/speculation/whatever you want to call it was produced by a private firm of accountants, with no imput whatsoever from the government.

    They are looking for free advertising and seem to have got it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    The biggest scandal so far in the recession, IMHO, is that Ireland refused to introduce a financial transaction tax. We took €74 billion from our society to put into our banks. To pay for this we must impose extra taxes, charges and cut services to the sick, the elderly, the disabled.

    The contribution asked of the very sector that caused this disaster are asked to contribute nothing.

    The other countries in Europe that introduced this tax did not see the collapse in their financial services sector that the apologist "let the poor pay" Casandras predicted would happen in Ireland.

    The polluter pays principle must stand. Let the sector that caused the collapse contribute to the recovery.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,314 ✭✭✭BOHtox


    Is there anything to be said for cutting spending and privatising?

    Surely I'm not the only one


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭soap1978


    i think i will give up my job and go on the dole. I'd be much better off.
    I bet u wont,am i right.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Hippies!


    BraziliaNZ wrote: »
    Because everyone is earning less and less and bills, goods, etc are all getting more expensive. Surely enough is enough? The laissez-faire attitude towards all this in Ireland really confuses me.

    Ummm, a lot of people haven't paid the "household charge"
    Not everyone is taking this lying down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Hippies! wrote: »
    Ummm, a lot of people haven't paid the "household charge"
    Not everyone is taking this lying down.

    And this is why other taxes will be increased.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,653 ✭✭✭Ghandee


    Valetta wrote: »
    And this is why other taxes will be increased.

    I'm convinced you're a govt spokesperson at this stage.

    Constantly defending tax increases on this and other threads.

    Guess what though? Even with 100% compliance of the hhc, they'd have had tax increases regardless.

    Further more, the govt figures of 64% or whatever its supposed to be are vastly bloated IMO.

    Clare county council have just passed a motion to cease sending out letters to residents until a viable database has been established.

    Two questions.

    How will a property database be constructed without the publics help, and how long will this take (without their help)

    Ditto a property tax, how will they implement it without the database/currently not knowing who owns what, or where they own it?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 34,788 ✭✭✭✭krudler


    At least Dick Turpin wore a mask

    Enda's human mask is pretty good though, being a giant lizard underneath, you can barely tell.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    ..on top of rates for local business too, remember, local councils are hiking rates and charges up and up to keep things 'normal' for themselves.

    I don't know how anyone can survive in a small retail\business at this time.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,671 ✭✭✭BraziliaNZ


    Amalgam wrote: »
    ..on top of rates for local business too, remember, local councils are hiking rates and charges up and up to keep things 'normal' for themselves.

    I don't know how anyone can survive in a small retail\business at this time.

    Exactly, it's disgusting, a lot of the cafes I used to eat at in Dublin near my workplace in the city centre, are now closed apparently, and I've only been away not even 2 years. The gov should be doing whatever they can to keep these places going. To rent isn't far off London prices in Dublin at the moment, I still keep track of them from mover here, and I'm renting my own place here that wouldn't be much cheaper in Dublin. I can't see how the country is going to go on like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,731 ✭✭✭Bullseye1


    How is anyone supposed to run a business in this country when you have reports like this frightening the life out of a large portion of the population who will now be even more reluctant to spend.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Hippies!


    Valetta wrote: »
    And this is why other taxes will be increased.

    Yes, because the majority are weak and will pay any tax imposed on them.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Hippies! wrote: »
    Yes, because the majority are weak and will pay any tax imposed on them.

    I think you'll find it's because the government need to raise a certain amount of money through taxes, and if people refuse to pay one then others will have to be increased to compensate.

    It's got nothing to do with people being weak. That's just populist nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Hippies!


    Valetta wrote: »
    I think you'll find it's because the government need to raise a certain amount of money through taxes, and if people refuse to pay one then others will have to be increased to compensate.

    It's got nothing to do with people being weak. That's just populist nonsense.

    Keep telling yourself that ;)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭Reloc8


    Hippies! wrote: »
    Yes, because the majority are weak law-abiding and will pay any tax imposed on them.

    fyp


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 555 ✭✭✭Hippies!


    Reloc8 wrote: »
    fyp

    Ah you're great altogether :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭Monty - the one and only


    Canada in 2013 I think

    good luck with that... month to month bills in Ontario make ireland look cheap...:( cost of living there seems cheaper on a day to day basis... cost of food, gas etc... but you will be nailed in taxes and bills


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭optimistic_


    If PRSI remains at 4% this will have very little impact for me. Single, don't own my own home, don't own a car, pension contributions non existent at the moment, have no other income outside of schedule E.

    So the only impact it should have on me is the 1% increase in the top end of USC.
    And this top end is not the real top end, after 100k it's 10%, I assume this will increase also.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭optimistic_


    Bullseye1 wrote: »
    How is anyone supposed to run a business in this country when you have reports like this frightening the life out of a large portion of the population who will now be even more reluctant to spend.

    If they don't re-introduce breaks taken from startup businesses in the coming budget, we will not see recovery in the next few years.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,641 ✭✭✭bgrizzley


    Valetta wrote: »
    And this is why other taxes will be increased.

    Divide et impera...


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,004 ✭✭✭conorhal


    Valetta wrote: »
    I think you'll find it's because the government need to raise a certain amount of money through taxes, and if people refuse to pay one then others will have to be increased to compensate.

    It's got nothing to do with people being weak. That's just populist nonsense.

    Or, you know, they could find the money elsewhere. I'm sure it will be painful for some county counselors to forego the opportunity to attend that conference on 'low cost local government' .....that's being held in Sun City South Africa this year, but times are hard. Still, they will have their increments to keep them warm!

    Before this government dip their hand in my pocket yet again, I suggest that they first stop pissing the money that I already give the government against the wall, once they've done that THEN they can come back to me and we can have a chat.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    Canada in 2013 I think
    Property tax in canada is a lot higher than they are proposing here. In my home town average property tax for 3 bed house is 3-4000 dollars a year. Personal income tax is higher as well. to rent a house in my home town you are looking at 2500-3000 dollars a month for a average 3 bed house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,597 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Property tax in canada is a lot higher than they are proposing here. In my home town average property tax for 3 bed house is 3-4000 dollars a year. Personal income tax is higher as well. to rent a house in my home town you are looking at 2500-3000 dollars a month for a average 3 bed house.

    And what local services do you get for your property tax?

    How much is stamp/transaction tax in Canada?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭bridster007


    That's a pretty misleading "report".

    The headline is 3,000 but 2,520 of this will be for people paying 12000 a year into a pension. Don't think too many are doing that.

    Sounds more like it was prompted by the pensions industry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭lucylu


    This sort of Kite Flying & private reports should be a criminal offence and fines dished out.
    This sort of stuff is closing down struggling businesses across the country as those who can afford to spend a few bob before the budget will refuse to spend it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 886 ✭✭✭doctorchopper


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    And what local services do you get for your property tax?

    How much is stamp/transaction tax in Canada?

    It would cover most of your services, bin charges, schools, road maint/snow removal. Some towns it covers water but some have water meters. There is no stamp duty. You have to pay 12% sales tax on everything and is not included on the sticker price, so the price you see on the tag isn't the price you pay if you get what i mean. you pay tax on used vehicles as well. No road tax, its built into the price of petrol/diesel so the more you use the more you pay (the way it should be here). Don't get me wrong, its a great place to live and work but don't think you'll go over there and get rich in a couple years.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 930 ✭✭✭poeticseraphim


    bhamsteve wrote: »
    Public Sector bashing to begin in 10, 9, 8, 7............
    THEY NEED TO BE BASHED ..IT IS PERFECTLY JUSTIFIED

    INFACT WE NEED A CULL.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,244 ✭✭✭MrFrisp


    Hippies! wrote: »
    Ummm, a lot of people haven't paid the "household charge"
    Not everyone is taking this lying down.



    Hence the problem....I think a few too many Did take it lying down. If everyone had stuck together,things may be different by now.
    .


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