What are we legally obliged to do at a traffic stop

Spiritiser · 02-12-2013 1:13am

Bepolite wrote: »

Again you've got it wrong I'm afraid. It's not 3 against 1 it's not a fight, the guards are there to do a job and as you and others have said two, three or more wrongs do not make a right. If the guy had complied there would have been no issue. If he felt the guards were heavy handed he had all sorts of options open to him.

The guards had very few options open to them an assessed a situation where someone was acting erratically.

your opinion thats all do not say it like its a fact. now i am out of this

Bepolite · 02-12-2013 1:24am

Spiritiser wrote: »

your opinion thats all do not say it like its a fact. now i am out of this

No that is a fact - the guards weren't there to fight the guy they were there to do their job. No one ganged up on anyone. The tactics may have been on the heavy handed side but perfectly reasonable given the situation.

source · 02-12-2013 8:17am

What people seem to forget is that Gardai have the right and legal power to use force to make a person comply with a legal demand. Nothing wrong with that video, if the driver wasn't acting the maggot all would have been fine.

Back to the op, there isn't a finite list of powers that Gardai can use at checkpoints, mainly because checkpoints are used for detecting crime. I'll try to list a sample of the more common powers used at a checkpoint below below.

Gardai have the power to:
Stop you and hold you until they have completed their business;
Demand production of your driving licence,
If you don't have it you're committing an offence and they can demand your name, address and DOB, and arrest if you don't provide it, or provide a false or misleading name and address, they can then hold you until they can prove who you are;
If they believe you have drugs in the car, they can search under misuse of drugs Act;
They can demand a sample of breath;
They can demand production of insurance cert;
They can seize your car if they believe it is a dangerous defective vehicle, there is no NCT or if your tax is out more than 2 months;
They have the power to check your car for defects, or have a PSV officer (usually a trained mechanic) do so;
They also have the power to use force to make you comply with their legal demands;

Basically they can use any of their powers at any time, in any part of the state. Gardai have many powers under many different Acts. If they believe you're in contravention of one of those Acts they can invoke their power under that Act.

Losty Dublin · 02-12-2013 12:30pm

Bepolite wrote: »

No that is a fact - the guards weren't there to fight the guy they were there to do their job. No one ganged up on anyone. The tactics may have been on the heavy handed side but perfectly reasonable given the situation.

Following the conversation about the video; while breaking the window was a drastic step to take I fail to get what, having asked and had a refusal by the motorist to comply with their request, the Garda are supposed to do next in this circumstance. He was stopped, asked and refused several times to show his licence using a petulant excuse to not comply. He was rather abrupt and smart to the garda in the deal and he refused to move the car to the side of the road. I don't know if they are expected to stare him down in a battle of wits, give up and wave him on, ask him to call around later to their barracks or better yet, to fix his window for him. Either way, the motorist did not comply with a simple request and make things easier for himself or the Gards.

No Pants · 02-12-2013 1:32pm

He's lucky he tried that nonsense in Ireland. If he'd tried it in certain other countries, the US being the one that easily springs to mind, he'd be facing gunfire, not a broken window and some screaming.

Fred Swanson · 02-12-2013 3:54pm

This post has been deleted.

loverslane · 02-12-2013 4:32pm

I was stopped a few weeks and asked to produce everything.

Licence
Insurance Cert
NCT Cert

Didn't have all on me so produced to local station. I'm just gonna keep all in the car in future to save hassle

frankmul · 02-12-2013 5:09pm

source wrote: »

What people seem to forget is that Gardai have the right and legal power to use force to make a person comply with a legal demand. Nothing wrong with that video, if the driver wasn't acting the maggot all would have been fine.

Back to the op, there isn't a finite list of powers that Gardai can use at checkpoints, mainly because checkpoints are used for detecting crime. I'll try to list a sample of the more common powers used at a checkpoint below below.

Gardai have the power to:
Stop you and hold you until they have completed their business;
Demand production of your driving licence,
If you don't have it you're committing an offence and they can demand your name, address and DOB, and arrest if you don't provide it, or provide a false or misleading name and address, they can then hold you until they can prove who you are;
If they believe you have drugs in the car, they can search under misuse of drugs Act;
They can demand a sample of breath;
They can demand production of insurance cert;
They can seize your car if they believe it is a dangerous defective vehicle, there is no NCT or if your tax is out more than 2 months;
They have the power to check your car for defects, or have a PSV officer (usually a trained mechanic) do so;
They also have the power to use force to make you comply with their legal demands;

Basically they can use any of their powers at any time, in any part of the state. Gardai have many powers under many different Acts. If they believe you're in contravention of one of those Acts they can invoke their power under that Act.

Thanks source, that's what I was looking for but can I ask, should the word force be replaced with the word reasonable force.
I know the guards have a hard job to do and there is never a word about the thousands of checkpoint that occur without any issue.

source · 02-12-2013 5:28pm

Fred Swanson wrote: »

But they still don't have the power to make you tell them where you are going/coming from and other such questions seeking private information.

No they don't, however Gardai don't have to be acting under a power to have a conversation, and that's what this is, asking those questions is about the member checking if you're nervous or to get you talking to see if you had been drinking.

They could likewise ask you about a match at the weekend but it would bare no relation on what you were doing, at the time.

source · 02-12-2013 5:32pm

frankmul wrote: »

Thanks source, that's what I was looking for but can I ask, should the word force be replaced with the word reasonable force.
I know the guards have a hard job to do and there is never a word about the thousands of checkpoint that occur without any issue.

Yes force has to be reasonable, the video posted shows a man secure in a large vehicle, he wouldn't turn the engine off or engage with the member. He has the ability to kill or seriously injure the members, the members have no idea what his intentions are, because of this he posed a threat, minimal force was used by breaking the window to make the man comply and thereby removing the threat.

frankmul · 02-12-2013 7:28pm

source wrote: »

Yes force has to be reasonable, the video posted shows a man secure in a large vehicle, he wouldn't turn the engine off or engage with the member. He has the ability to kill or seriously injure the members, the members have no idea what his intentions are, because of this he posed a threat, minimal force was used by breaking the window to make the man comply and thereby removing the threat.

Thanks again source
I'm not sure if anyone can say if the force used in the video is reasonable or excessive. Not enough information available. Supporters of the Garda will give reason why it's ok and supporters of the driver will give reasons why it was excessive.

This is something from england
https://www.gov.uk/stopped-by-police-while-driving-your-rights

pillphil · 09-12-2013 11:14pm

ANXIOUS wrote: »

I've seen a gardai test drive a motor bike at a checkpoint to try and ascertain the engine size.

No Pants wrote: »

Seriously? How did that work?

Greenmachine wrote: »

Seconded. More reasonable thing would be read the cc from the side of the barrel. Maybe he just wanted to take it for a spin.

Motorbike drivers for the first two years of holding their full licences and for the duration of holding their provisional/learner permit are restricted to 33hp(this changed this year, but there's no need to explain all that).
The proof gardai usually look for is a restriction cert, which is just a piece of paper signed by a mechanic which says the bike is restricted.

So someone on a restricted licence could legally drive an R1( a fast bike 150hp?) if it was restricted to 33hp.

Obviously some people get the cert and remove the restriction. This would be immediately obvious to anyone driving the bike even for a quick spin.

Victor · 09-12-2013 11:33pm

loverslane wrote: »

I was stopped a few weeks and asked to produce everything.

Licence
Insurance Cert
NCT Cert

Didn't have all on me so produced to local station. I'm just gonna keep all in the car in future to save hassle

And if the car is stolen and you don't have your original insurance policy?

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

"WHAT! A guard wouldn't ask me that question!"

You may however feel sheepish when you end up stuck at a blocked road he was about to tell you about.

hullaballoo · 10-12-2013 2:49am

pillphil wrote: »

Motorbike drivers for the first two years of holding their full licences and for the duration of holding their provisional/learner permit are restricted to 33hp(this changed this year, but there's no need to explain all that).
The proof gardai usually look for is a restriction cert, which is just a piece of paper signed by a mechanic which says the bike is restricted.

So someone on a restricted licence could legally drive an R1( a fast bike 150hp?) if it was restricted to 33hp.

Obviously some people get the cert and remove the restriction. This would be immediately obvious to anyone driving the bike even for a quick spin.

You can be guaranteed that any such motorist would be driving without insurance if they do that.

There are very good reasons for those restrictions. I have been driving for over 12 years and I wouldn't trust myself on a 150 bhp bike. My car is 184 bhp and I wouldn't drive it if it wasn't the tank that it is.

pillphil · 10-12-2013 3:56am

hullaballoo wrote: »

You can be guaranteed that any such motorist would be driving without insurance if they do that.

There are very good reasons for those restrictions. I have been driving for over 12 years and I wouldn't trust myself on a 150 bhp bike. My car is 184 bhp and I wouldn't drive it if it wasn't the tank that it is.

Sorry, don't know if I was clear on that, the reason the gardai would want to test drive the bike is because if it was unrestricted, the driver would be uninsured.
And it wouldn't take much of a test drive to tell whether it was 33hp or 150hp

What are we legally obliged to do at a traffic stop

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