Is it time for an economically right wing party?

Halloween Jack wrote: »

Agree on that front. maybe some of the posters wanting to live under a right wing government could migrate to blighty and vote Tory/ukip? Doesn't get much more right wing than that in a democratic system....

Find out what it's like to live in a society approaching Dickensian levels of income/wealth inequality where vast swathes of the country are left to rot and huge amounts of people excluded from participating in economic and civic life and vilified by the media for being poor, disabled people are branded unworthy of the minimum wage by a member of the government and unfunded tax breaks for the wealthy are the order if the day.

I lived there for 20-odd years and had no problem with it whatsoever.

Like the East Europeans who came here in the last decade, when I moved to London in 1984 I started at the bottom. Right at the bottom - I lived on the streets for the first two weeks until I managed to track down a couple of mates to share a place with.

I started working at the bottom of ladder, worked my nuts off to make sure the job was done - 90+ hour weeks, not a penny of overtime. As I progressed up the ladder, I was responsible for recruiting staff. My no.1 rule was don't employ Londoners. They lived at home, thought the world owed them a living, always had something to go to at 5pm when there was still lots of work to be done and were generally useless.
However, employ an Irish person or a Northerner and they worked their socks off because they needed the money to pay their rent. Swim or sink, it's very simple.
That's why East Europeans have taken all the lower paid jobs. They need the money and are willing to start at the bottom. They don't care about rights or entitlements, they just want to work.

In those 20 years, I never voted Tory or Labour, UK politics is so dull. I would have voted UKIP though. Anyone who wants to to do away with pen pushers and politicians gets my vote!

jank wrote: »

Yes, however, it has been noted by many in the business community that it is very hard very often to entice people off the dole into lowish paying jobs. The people on the dole look at the rate being offered, do the sums and say "No, not worth it". I don't blame them

You're working off the assumption that everyone, or at least the majority, on welfare is unskilled and has been let go from a minimum wage job. There's engineers, mechanics, tradesmen on the dole who are looking for work in their area and finding nothing.
At the same time, because of unemployment, business owners and employers are quite happy to offer salaries of far beneath the market rate.

People with 15 years experience in aircraft maintenance are being expected to work as sales assistants in newsagents. Take what you can get, scrounger. Employers are now allowed to hire staff and pay them nothing under this stupid job bridge scheme.

Business owners cite the fact that they are making less money so need either less staff or lower wages.
They're making less money because people are losing jobs and taking wage cuts, less money to spend in shops.
If more people work, more money is spent, business can afford to take on more staff and the economy as a whole grows.

Welfare cuts do nothing to stimulate growth. Someone without a job doesn't become less unemployed by having less money. Maybe you'll make people desperate enough to take low paying jobs and take a hit on the additional costs associated with working, leaving them pretty much no better off with marginal gains to the economy overall.

With more people working, people on here wouldn't feel so aggrieved about their hard-earned money being taxed to pay for some lazy wastrels Sky Sports package

have read most of the pages and have a good few points to make, but my first one is this, wouldnt FG be the type of party we are discussing, if they didnt have to make the inevitable, concessions to Labour? There is no other party that they would be better matched too than a PD's etc. But short of a party like that starting up. They wont get a majority, so we are stuck with what we have now, i.e FG and Labour as a probable best case scenario...

Secondly in relation to Public v private sector debate, we are all workers, is it not very short sighted from some of the PS to vote in an irresponsible party who are going to do far more damage than good, run the place like a joke again, so they can have a few more euro in their pocket, before everything comes off the rails again. FG may not increase the rate of pay as much, but they will cut taxes, this incentivises the wealth generating private sector to put in more effort, create jobs etc. Which is a win win for everyone.

We dont have any other options now, but would it not make sense for workers private and public sector to vote in a party who will reward work, put in a realistic tax base that isnt subject to massive spikes or drops, i.e. the current water and property tax. Spend money on infrastructure and the important things, instead of simply throwing as much money into peoples pockets as they can regardless of merit?

my reasoning and thought process has really started to move on from Public v private sector to we are all in this together, why dont we make a stand, vote FG and stop the other father christmas parties with their ignorant voters, taking the piss out of us?

Also in relation to waste, say in the PS, surely they as workers wouldnt want it rectified, as they can benefit from the savings through increased pay or lower taxes? All my mates are private sector have no problem in highlighting the issues in their place of work and sometimes ripping into them...

FG wouldnt go after pensioners, they would probably start tacking a lot of the social welfare jokes and traps though, which is probably top of the list for what most of us posting here want targeted...

Another poster put up an excellent post on what left wing centresist and right wing parties were and rated all of the parties here on that scale, FG were centre. Thing is, we are such a bleeding heart society, that I can see why people think FG are right wing, but thats just how left we are here!

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Why any man has a say in what a woman can and can't do with her body/life, I'll never know.

So you're opposed to males campaigning to repeal the 8th amendment , right?

Or is it just that men should just walk away from the debate if they are pro-life in any way?

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

I think I started a thread a few years ago advocating a right wing party but I think it was Scofflaw who pointed out the following.

There are 600,000 trade union members. If you add on their dependents then you're looking at about 900,000 voters. If you add on the unemployed and their dependents then you're looking at another 600,000 voters. Pensioners - 500,000. So that's 2million voters out of a total voting population of approx. 3.1million.

Plus with a voter turnout of 60%, the vast majority will be members of the above - trade unions, unemployed and especially pensioners - all the people who are the biggest drain on this country's finances.

Agreed. The only way the right wing party could be ran is by people running a party that will lose. And the worst thing is that they'd have to finance it all themselves, as they couldn't really run the party from the dole.

Agreed. The only way the right wing party could be ran is by people running a party that will lose. And the worst thing is that they'd have to finance it all themselves, as they couldn't really run the party from the dole.

The thing is though, that they wouldnt have to be a please all party, just get enough seats to form a coalition with FG... FG would far prefer to bed fellows with type of party we are discussing, than the exact opposite, which is Labour...

what type of party would Lucinda Creighton run if she ever does indeed start one?

just on their website now, I like a lot of the below proposals...

http://www.reformalliance.ie/reform-conference-details/economy/#.VEQvEPldWjY

Economy

Reforming the Economy

All retirement lump sums should be taxed at the recipients marginal rate of tax (they have a greater ability to pay than any other taxpayer. A bar should be placed on all ex TD’s from entering the Senate.

The ‘poverty trap’ (in some ‘poverty golden handcuffs’) has got to be addressed urgently, to make paid employment more attractive, than the state sponsored destructive lifestyle on the Dole.

Tax system needs reform. It’s penal to be on a higher tax earning a paltry 32K.

Introduce free legal aid for families who face eviction from their homes due to serious illness or redundancy.

Abolish the high rate of motor tax and set it at a reasonable rate. Make motor tax progressive not regressive.

How about converting some unused hotels into hostels for the homeless and less well off in society?

Bring tax bands for 2 income and 1 income couples closer together.

Equalise PAYE tax credits and home cover tax credits – presently PAYE is double home cover

Allow tax credits and/or tax band increases for children of married couples as in other countries and for single parents.

Make a certain proportion of child care costs tax deductible and allow this to be means tested so that those who earn the least get the most benefit.

No profiteering from land deals for housing

3rd level of tax for those earning €100k

Hefty fines for accountants and their clients providing false information on accounts so as to gain grants etc

Big promotion to use Irish products in catering and sell Irish products in shops

Working should pay better than social welfare ie social welfare should not be better that payment for working

Gloomtastic! wrote: »

Didn't know that about Varadkar. Need to cross him off the list so. Why any man has a say in what a woman can and can't do with her body/life, I'll never know.

Silly line of thought to be going down. Democracy means everyone gets a say, regardless of who you are. It's no different from saying only property owners are allowed vote on matters relating to housing or only immigrants should be allowed to have a say on immigration.

We already have a tonne of laws determining what a woman (or man) can or can't do with their body. Legally, you're actually allowed to do very little with your body