Is this aggression "normal"? MOD WARNING: read post #219

07Lapierre · 23-07-2014 9:19am

Has this ever happened to anyone?

Your cycling along a long, straight, country road (Kilmacanogue to Roundwood for example) into a strong headwind. All you can hear is the wind..then suddenly, some muppet comes from behind you on a motorbike travelling at 100+ kph and passes you with just inches to spare!

(You don't hear him coming because of the wind noise..you only hear him as he's inches from your right ear!)

Scares the sh*t out of me every time! :mad:

fits · 23-07-2014 9:22am

I dont know. I was really frightened last night. I am going to email the RSA today and say more needs to be done about sharing the road. (I ride horses as well ). they did a good job with the speeding and drunk driving etc.

No Pants · 23-07-2014 9:24am

07Lapierre wrote: »

Has this ever happened to anyone?

Your cycling along a long, straight, country road (Kilmacanogue to Roundwood for example) into a strong headwind. All you can hear is the wind..then suddenly, some muppet comes from behind you on a motorbike travelling at 100+ kph and passes you with just inches to spare!

(You don't hear him coming because of the wind noise..you only hear him as he's inches from your right ear!)

Scares the sh*t out of me every time! :mad:

Never had it with a motorbike that I can recall. Have had a number of close overtakes by cars though, one approaching a rather tight pinch-point earlier in the year. Didn't like that one bit.

mossym · 23-07-2014 9:32am

driving home last night. pedestrian walking towards us, can see her form a distance. bike approaching her, travelling same direction as me, and one car in front of me.

bike pulls out, passes her, pulls back in. car in front moves out, gives her 6/7+ feet of clearance, then for no reason as there was no cars coming against us, swerves back in hard so that they can buzz the cyclist as close as possible. culd have held their line easily( i did ) and left the cyclist room, but buzzing the cyclist was more important

on the flip side, i;ve seen cyclists intentionally piss off drivers as well

argue all people want about what rules mean and how people interpret them, but while people are intent on being agressive anyway it doesn't matter what the rules say. that case last night was nothing about safety, rules of the road, speeds people were doing, or any of the other arguements that were being made. it was done either out of anger or for some sense of fun.

T-Maxx · 23-07-2014 9:38am

Panrich wrote: »

Not really the case. A car can accelerate from 40 to 80kph quicker than from 10 to 50kph due to inertia and in less space consequently

Since th eincrease in speed is the same (40kph) the time will be the same. The crucial thing would be the engine's power and torque curves and gearbox ratios. An electric car is a good example of this since it will neutralize these factors and accelerate all the same.

Jawgap · 23-07-2014 9:43am

I think it's time we addressed the real problem........time to end all this 'us and them' attitude and unite to fight the real problem.......the common enemy.....

........runners!!

They hardly ever say 'hello' - rarely acknowledge you when you wave or nod at them and are feckin' useless for drafting behind even when they are running in the direction of the traffic.

Tenzor07 · 23-07-2014 9:43am

Speaking of slow moving vehicles blocking up the roads...

some-cnt-in-tractor-to-purposely-ruin-every-motorists-day-today

main site: Link

office.ie · 23-07-2014 10:45am

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

07Lapierre · 23-07-2014 10:55am

office.ie wrote: »

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a29

"9.—(1) A pedal cyclist shall not, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists (and then only if to do so will not endanger other traffic or pedestrians) drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cycles driving abreast."

The rules for Pedestrians are also worth reading..

Lusk_Doyle · 23-07-2014 11:06am

office.ie wrote: »

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

What strange places are you frequenting that there is room for a car but not for two bikes side by side?

magicbastarder · 23-07-2014 11:08am

Panrich wrote: »

Not really the case. A car can accelerate from 40 to 80kph quicker than from 10 to 50kph due to inertia and in less space consequently

pedant hat on here - i doubt that inertia plays a role in cars being able to accelerate differently at different speeds, as inertial mass remains constant at non-relativistic velocities.

Dermot Illogical · 23-07-2014 11:08am

office.ie wrote: »

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

If only there was a thread on the internet where you could find that out.

Lusk_Doyle · 23-07-2014 1:25pm

office.ie wrote: »

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

Having never been to general I will have to take your word for it. I wonder if it's like Beijing with all those nine million bicycles!

Jawgap · 23-07-2014 2:14pm

office.ie wrote: »

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

You're right but only because there is a distinct lack of breasts to ride to........that's why a lot of people out for a cycle ride to a cafe......less likely to get you in trouble with the missus and the milk is more palatable (which is not to say I have a full basis for comparison)

Turnstyle · 23-07-2014 2:53pm

Some cyclists on here really take this two abreast approach to be total black and white... there are plenty of situations where moving to single file on Irish roads is actually safer in my opinion and is just more considerate to other road users.. to take the approach that the law states XY&Z and that is final, all of the time is just being a d1ck. Some motorists will hurl abuse/blow their horn at us cyclists regardless of the situation because they are just arseholes with a bad attitude or are just looking to wind you up, I just ignore all of them and enjoy my spin, life is too short.... but a certain amount of the bad attitude is being created by cyclists themselves who are too full of self importance and need to grow up a little

CramCycle · 23-07-2014 2:56pm

office.ie wrote: »

I have to say in general there is no room for cyclists to ride 2 a breast go single file ,interested in what the actual law on this is

MOD WARNING: The next person to post without having read the thread completely gets a holiday

mathie · 23-07-2014 3:19pm

Back to the agression ...
I was cycling from Bray into town on the N11 at the weekend. The roads were quiet. It was 730 in the evening.

There is a cycle lane but I wasn't in it as it's in very poor condition.
I heard a few beeps behind me and had a quick look.
An out of service Dublin Bus and the driver gesturing at the lane.
I was going downhill at the time and doing about 40 - 45km.
He beeped a few more times then overtook and swerved in to cut me off.
I'd to hit the brakes.

He'd more than enough space to overtake my as the other two lanes were incredibly quiet.
Felt a bit unnerved after it.

Lusk_Doyle · 23-07-2014 3:42pm

CramCycle wrote: »

MOD WARNING: The next person to post without having read the thread completely gets a holiday

I hope the flight path of said holiday doesn't go near Israeli airspace...

*awaits paddling*

Lusk_Doyle · 23-07-2014 3:43pm

mathie wrote: »

Back to the agression ...
I was cycling from Bray into town on the N11 at the weekend. The roads were quiet. It was 730 in the evening.

There is a cycle lane but I wasn't in it as it's in very poor condition.
I heard a few beeps behind me and had a quick look.
An out of service Dublin Bus and the driver gesturing at the lane.
I was going downhill at the time and doing about 40 - 45km.
He beeped a few more times then overtook and swerved in to cut me off.
I'd to hit the brakes.

He'd more than enough space to overtake my as the other two lanes were incredibly quiet.
Felt a bit unnerved after it.

Did you get the reg?

mathie · 23-07-2014 4:26pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Did you get the reg?

Unfortunately no.

Afterwards I thought I should have gone into Donnybrook garage where I could possibly have tracked it down.

CramCycle · 23-07-2014 5:18pm

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

I hope the flight path of said holiday doesn't go near Israeli airspace...

*awaits paddling*

I knew someone would ask where they are going, I was trying to think of a witty retort but all I that sprung to mind was the dumping line delivered with panache by my ex "Welcome to dumpsville, population: you", I thought she was joking, she was not

check_six · 23-07-2014 6:01pm

mathie wrote: »

Back to the agression ...
I was cycling from Bray into town on the N11 at the weekend. The roads were quiet. It was 730 in the evening.

There is a cycle lane but I wasn't in it as it's in very poor condition.
I heard a few beeps behind me and had a quick look.
An out of service Dublin Bus and the driver gesturing at the lane.
I was going downhill at the time and doing about 40 - 45km.
He beeped a few more times then overtook and swerved in to cut me off.
I'd to hit the brakes.

He'd more than enough space to overtake my as the other two lanes were incredibly quiet.
Felt a bit unnerved after it.

There were threads down the years about shenanigans like this. "Punishment Passes" I think was the accepted phrase. I think a couple of people went to the trouble of making a complaint to Dublin Bus. I don't think they got much further than DB saying that they have reviewed the tape and will reprimand the driver. However, if you only knew the number on the bus it may be worth sending a letter, as it is scary to think that it could be the same nutter, or group of nutters trying this nonsense while in control of a bus after they had been warned about not doing it.

Hunterbiker · 23-07-2014 6:46pm

Re the close pass if the bus. Report it with as much info as you can. As it was out of service and at a quiet time of the evening like as not the garage know what vehicles would be moving in that approx location. Buses have cctv so it can be downloaded and viewed.
I had an experience (whilst driving a car) along Grove Road where a driver tailgated / drove like an Ass the length of the canal.
I only had an approx year / type of bus (it was an 06 plate and either an out of service 75 or 16. Told them where I 1st saw it what it did and where I lost sight of it.
Got a couple of emails then 3 months on got an email from the Oos manager at Donnybrook. Very sorry they did locate the driver and have dealt with the matter. I left it there.
So the above is a long way of saying report it!

Yarisbob · 23-07-2014 7:48pm

Ive recently started to cycle a bit - Doctors orders - Fat git etc etc.. but I find 99.9% of drivers corteous and patient with me when I'm out and about on the roads.

its just that one gob will wreck it for all. I see an odd bit of argy bargy but you are better to let an aggressive driver off and dont interact. That person could be having a bad day or even worse got bad news and is just not themselves.

I got tailgated years ago while driving along so I pulled in a bit - the driver of the other car a Passat looked really shaken. I was alongside him at the next set of lights and put my window down and asked him calmly was everything ok.. he said he was sorry and welled up and said he had gotton bad news .. What could I say but just try and take it easy.. that it wasnt worth having a smash over - no matter how bad.. i was a bit shook myself after wards and thought - I hope that poor git will be ok...

You never know what is happening with people at any given time so I always try and keep calm and think back to that poor sod...

As for the driver of that DB - He is in control of a 10 ton piece of machinery and should have more savvy.. Report him I say...

magicbastarder · 23-07-2014 8:58pm

not that it has any moral or illuminates the debate in any way, but even with cycling less than two foot from the side of the road, on a stretch of road with about half a mile visibility ahead, i was overtaken by a car today, into the path of an oncoming motorcyclist who had to fairly slam on the brakes to avoid a collision.
i remember thinking that if there had been two cyclists riding side by side, the car may not have attempted the overtaking.

Unknown Soldier · 23-07-2014 9:54pm

Lumen wrote: »

I'm not sure about that. There's an interesting technique for walking through an oncoming crowd where if you look above people's heads they subconsciously move out of your way.

On reflection I'd agree with you. Eye contact is more of an urban thing. What I kind of meant to say was looking behind and "noting" the car etc behind you. I think that is a good thing.

At least they know, that you know, they are there. It's a huge benefit IMO.

I've only gone out with someone once and they never acknowledged the traffic behind us.

Tenzor07 · 23-07-2014 10:15pm

My concern is that all the vitriol against cyclists by the Irish Times and the Dailymail will lead idiots like this young driver to think things like this are cool:

No Pants · 23-07-2014 10:19pm

She appears to have deleted that now and apologised. I guess she got a little bit more attention than she wanted.

John_Rambo · 23-07-2014 10:57pm

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

On reflection I'd agree with you. Eye contact is more of an urban thing. What I kind of meant to say was looking behind and "noting" the car etc behind you. I think that is a good thing

MostDeff! If a cyclists turns around, it's as obvious as an indicator that he/she is about to maneuver. Time to ease off and wait for a signal or something to happen.

mamax · 24-07-2014 9:45am

Again last night I could see a person walking up ahead and some idiot speeds up and overtakes me too fast and too close then he slams on the brakes and indicates to overtake the person walking.
What the hell is going through these morons heads and what makes them decide that a pedestrian is worth overtaking with caution and a cyclist not ?

fits · 24-07-2014 9:53am

I contacted RSA yesterday about the same issue using this form. I think its a really big problem here.

http://rsa.ie/Utility/Contact-Us/Feedback/

CramCycle · 24-07-2014 9:55am

mamax wrote: »

What the hell is going through these morons heads and what makes them decide that a pedestrian is worth overtaking with caution and a cyclist not ?

Headlines in papers, hit a cyclist and the general feeling is what could the cyclist have done to avoid it eg not cycle, be in the ditch, not be in the motorist way. Hit a pedestrian and you are not paying attention, speeding and it makes some particularly nasty headlines, also the fact that everyone can relate to being a pedestrian, not everyone can relate to being a cyclist apparently.

No Pants · 24-07-2014 10:12am

Found this helmetcam video on YouTube. Cars turns across cyclist, causing a collision. Cyclist manages somehow to land on his feet. Comments seen elsewhere suggest that the driver disputed liability with the insurance company. :eek:

TonyStark · 24-07-2014 11:23am

No Pants wrote: »

Found this helmetcam video on YouTube. Cars turns across cyclist, causing a collision. Cyclist manages somehow to land on his feet. Comments seen elsewhere suggest that the driver disputed liability with the insurance company. :eek:

Looks like poor judgement on the part of the driver more than out and out aggression.

mossym · 24-07-2014 11:28am

No Pants wrote: »

Found this helmetcam video on YouTube. Cars turns across cyclist, causing a collision. Cyclist manages somehow to land on his feet. Comments seen elsewhere suggest that the driver disputed liability with the insurance company. :eek:

had the exact same thing happen me as a teenager, except the driver was a garda on his lunchbreak returning to the station. remember thinking as i was helped up that the boys in blue got there very fast, took a while to realise he was the driver. his fault too, he was turning right across the road i was travelling down .

No Pants · 24-07-2014 1:33pm

TonyStark wrote: »

Looks like poor judgement on the part of the driver more than out and out aggression.

I don't think it was either, driver error. Sorry, I didn't make that clear.

spookwoman · 25-07-2014 12:44pm

I have just started cycling for health and exercise and have to say I've seen some and had near misses since starting about 8 weeks ago. I cycle and drive with the idea there are others on the road and i have to think of them and not cause problems. Narrow road and continuous white line I wouldn't go 2 abreast and TBH not fair on drivers if you are not going that fast. The other thing about 2 abreast and groups people need to be able to cycle in a straight line and have experience of breaking etc and also be aware of those behind. Was in a group of people just staring off and christ it was a nightmare with people slamming on brakes for no reason, wobbling and not keeping up with the person beside them. That same night had a hell of a lot of cars beep etc because of the cyclists lack of experience and awareness of their surrounding.
As for drivers I've had them stop on a cycle lane to chat on their phone and just as I get level they decide to pull out while still on the phone. Another great one is the roundabout that have the altered lanes so if you're on the right lane going straight on they will undertake you on the inside and are determined to get past even if your getting off the roundabout. Women in mini's are the worst. Any time I've has some gob***** do something I usually roar some obscenity.

CramCycle · 25-07-2014 1:14pm

spookwoman wrote: »

Narrow road and continuous white line I wouldn't go 2 abreast and TBH not fair on drivers if you are not going that fast.

Not fair on the cyclist if the driver think it is OK to squeeze past on a continuous white line and then meets another car coming the other direction. I am not sure about others but I don't do it to be a dick, I do it because (despite what even i thought about it, I used to do the same), after looking at the reasons and the explanations, it would be dangerous not too stay two abreast in most situations. If a driver did not give time for any possible obstructions on the road, he didn't leave early enough, my safety trumps their lateness.

magicbastarder · 25-07-2014 2:02pm

a continuous white is painted on a narrow road for a reason - it means do not cross the white line because the conditions do not allow you to move into the oncoming lane due to lack of visibility.
if a motorist has to move into the oncoming lane to overtake a single cyclist, they are performing a risky manouevre, endangering the cyclist.

Lumen · 25-07-2014 2:09pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

a continuous white is painted on a narrow road for a reason - it means do not cross the white line because the conditions do not allow you to move into the oncoming lane due to lack of visibility.

I think there are exceptions for overtaking "obstructions". I don't what what the legal interpretation of that is.

07Lapierre · 25-07-2014 2:20pm

Road traffic Act 1964..

Continuous white lines
9. An authorised continuous white line along the centre of a roadway shall indicate that traffic must drive to the left of the line, and when on a stretch of roadway on which such a line has been provided a driver shall, save for the purpose of entering or leaving land or premises adjoining the right hand side of that roadway, drive to the left of the line

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a9

Lumen · 25-07-2014 2:43pm

07Lapierre wrote: »

Road traffic Act 1964..

Continuous white lines
9. An authorised continuous white line along the centre of a roadway shall indicate that traffic must drive to the left of the line, and when on a stretch of roadway on which such a line has been provided a driver shall, save for the purpose of entering or leaving land or premises adjoining the right hand side of that roadway, drive to the left of the line

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1964/en/si/0294.html#zzsi294y1964a9

...which also states:

"Application of bye-laws
5.—(1) These bye-laws shall apply save where compliance therewith is not possible by reason solely of road-works, building operations or an obstruction to traffic, or because of an emergency suddenly confronting a driver, pedal-cyclist or pedestrian which he could not reasonably have been expected to anticipate."

spookwoman · 25-07-2014 2:50pm

But a cyclist can be classed as an obstruction and people have been known to get failed for not overtaking cyclists when there is a continuous white line. Its basically using a bit of common sense and curtsy overtake when its safe to do so. Like horses on the main road your are not expected to travel behind a horse for 5km.

Red Nissan · 25-07-2014 2:52pm

spookwoman wrote: »

But a cyclist can be classed as an obstruction and people have been known to get failed for not overtaking cyclists when there is a continuous white line. Its basically using a bit of common sense and curtsy overtake when its safe to do so. Like horses on the main road your are not expected to travel behind a horse for 5km.

It's a case of the glass half full or empty. Before a jury on any given day, 6 would prosecute and 6 would acquit.

07Lapierre · 25-07-2014 2:52pm

Lumen wrote: »

...which also states:

"Application of bye-laws
5.—(1) These bye-laws shall apply save where compliance therewith is not possible by reason solely of road-works, building operations or an obstruction to traffic, or because of an emergency suddenly confronting a driver, pedal-cyclist or pedestrian which he could not reasonably have been expected to anticipate."

Yep i knew once i posted someone would find that bit for me thanks

Jawgap · 25-07-2014 3:01pm

spookwoman wrote: »

But a cyclist can be classed as an obstruction and people have been known to get failed for not overtaking cyclists when there is a continuous white line. Its basically using a bit of common sense and curtsy overtake when its safe to do so. Like horses on the main road your are not expected to travel behind a horse for 5km.

You don't get failed for not overtaking (whether it's a bike, bus or tractor) - you get failed for not making adequate progress.....

From the RSA

The following are the most common reasons why people fail driving tests:
Inadequate observation moving off, at junctions, at roundabouts and when changing lanes

Failure to anticipate the actions of other drivers

Incorrect road position on the straight, on bends, turning left, turning right, at roundabouts, and when overtaking

Inadequate progress at junctions, roundabouts, on the straight, and when overtaking

Incorrect or inadequate use of mirrors and signals

Non-compliance with traffic controls, eg road signs and markings and traffic lights

Incorrect, inadequate or inappropriate use of vehicle controls, including gears, clutch, accelerator, steering, handbrake, footbrake, and secondary controls

Excessive speed for the road or traffic conditions

Failure to yield the right of way to others

Lack of competence in the reverse and U-turn manoeuvres

The much quoted Rules of the Road are pretty clear on the point of the continuous white line.....

All traffic must keep to the left of the line (except in an emergency or for access).

Incidentally if a cyclist (or cyclists) is moving how can they be an obstruction?

mathie · 25-07-2014 3:08pm

spookwoman wrote: »

I have just started cycling for health and exercise and have to say I've seen some and had near misses since starting about 8 weeks ago. I cycle and drive with the idea there are others on the road and i have to think of them and not cause problems. Narrow road and continuous white line I wouldn't go 2 abreast and TBH not fair on drivers if you are not going that fast. The other thing about 2 abreast and groups people need to be able to cycle in a straight line and have experience of breaking etc and also be aware of those behind. Was in a group of people just staring off and christ it was a nightmare with people slamming on brakes for no reason, wobbling and not keeping up with the person beside them. That same night had a hell of a lot of cars beep etc because of the cyclists lack of experience and awareness of their surrounding.
As for drivers I've had them stop on a cycle lane to chat on their phone and just as I get level they decide to pull out while still on the phone. Another great one is the roundabout that have the altered lanes so if you're on the right lane going straight on they will undertake you on the inside and are determined to get past even if your getting off the roundabout. Women in mini's are the worst. Any time I've has some gob***** do something I usually roar some obscenity.

What is that?

CramCycle · 25-07-2014 3:12pm

mathie wrote: »

What is that?

In general there are the rules for approaching a roundabout and what lanes to take but in some cases, generally larger ones, the council have decided that that they will change the usual lane for traffic so on a roundabout with 3 lanes coming in you might have a left only, straight or right and a right only (or some random variation that half the idiots on the road can't seem to follow), rather than the typical unmarked roundabout where left lane is for left or straight on and the right lane is for turning right.

Tenzor07 · 25-07-2014 4:06pm

spookwoman wrote: »

But a cyclist can be classed as an obstruction

An obstruction is a hole in the road, or a collapsed tree, not a bicyclist! :rolleyes:

cdaly_ · 25-07-2014 6:32pm

How about a collapsed cyclist?...