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retro fit rainwater harvesting tank/system

  • 23-04-2014 10:59pm
    #1
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭


    Have an unfinished diy project in the form of a garden pond - directly outside back door of the house. Cutting a long story short, I know longer have the interest in finishing it - and wonder if I could fit an underground rainwater harvesting tank instead. Its already dug out deep enough to fit a 5000ltr tank.

    What I'm puzzled about is how to effectively retrofit this. I havnt a clue about either the plumbing or electricity aspects of this. I don't particularly want to run a pipe on the outside wall of the house - and I guess thats a non runner in any event as it would freeze solid.


    How do I find where the mains water is entering the house? If I find this point, would it be possible to somehow pull thorough another water pipe alongside this - all the way up to the attic?

    Whats the likelihood of this being possible without major upheaval and expense??


Comments

  • #2
    shane ryan 2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭shane ryan 2013


    makeorbrake wrote: »
    Have an unfinished diy project in the form of a garden pond - directly outside back door of the house. Cutting a long story short, I know longer have the interest in finishing it - and wonder if I could fit an underground rainwater harvesting tank instead. Its already dug out deep enough to fit a 5000ltr tank.

    What I'm puzzled about is how to effectively retrofit this. I havnt a clue about either the plumbing or electricity aspects of this. I don't particularly want to run a pipe on the outside wall of the house - and I guess thats a non runner in any event as it would freeze solid.


    How do I find where the mains water is entering the house? If I find this point, would it be possible to somehow pull thorough another water pipe alongside this - all the way up to the attic?

    Whats the likelihood of this being possible without major upheaval and expense??

    This is not a job for your regular Diy enthusiastic person .its a difficult installation even for professional s.
    You need a world of construction knowledge from drainage plumbing electrical and structural to get from a to b in already finished property's as less invasive as possible .
    Best of luck .check with your insurance company before you start


  • #3
    shane 007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 914 ✭✭✭shane 007


    What I have to laugh about with all these water saving measures is we are told the average running cost of supplying potable water is €580 per household, we will be charged "an average" of €240 & that eventually the government wants to fully recoup the full delivery cost. So in effect, we will be paying €580 average per year.
    So let's say we all reduce our usage & they will just reduce the per 1,000 cost to gain the higher income.
    Isn't that what happened with the car tax system. They encouraged everybody to drive low emission cars by enticing them with low cost road tax. Then when everybody swapped, the has much lower income, so the just raised the tax amount. Slip a bit unannounced into every budget every year, nobody bats an eye lid!


  • #4
    shane ryan 2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭shane ryan 2013


    shane 007 wrote: »
    What I have to laugh about with all these water saving measures is we are told the average running cost of supplying potable water is €580 per household, we will be charged "an average" of €240 & that eventually the government wants to fully recoup the full delivery cost. So in effect, we will be paying €580 average per year.
    So let's say we all reduce our usage & they will just reduce the per 1,000 cost to gain the higher income.
    Isn't that what happened with the car tax system. They encouraged everybody to drive low emission cars by enticing them with low cost road tax. Then when everybody swapped, the has much lower income, so the just raised the tax amount. Slip a bit unannounced into every budget every year, nobody bats an eye lid!

    Here here to democracy in all its glory. We are going to be charged per 1000 Ltr usage at a set rate but what most don't know is that a percentage of the water coming in will be also charged going out so in effect a double charge. I would expect water rates per year in its third year to be in the 8 to 9 hundred euro range forcing an explosion in new products designed to save the environment and our pocket to keep our here here politicians democratic and just in the quest to in slave us all even further .
    Still safer to drink water from a puddle than the tap


  • #5
    deandean
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,236 ✭✭✭deandean


    I like the idea of rainwater harvesting but TBH I think there's no economic sense in it.

    What happened in the U.K. (and someone can correct me if this is not entirely correct) is that firstly the cost per cubic metre is split into a 'supply cost' and a 'takeaway cost'.

    The ratio is relatively small for supply and relatively large to take it away (drains, sewage). So even if you supply all your own water they still get you for the takeaway cost.

    Also there is a charge factor based on the amount of square feet of roof on your site, they say you will be catching the rainwater on your roof and ultimately have to pay to discharge it down the drain.

    So the economic benefit of collecting, processing and supplying your own water is I think going to be negligible once the fat cats get crunching their spreadsheets and work out how to screw everybody, all the time. Sad state of affairs - there should be incentives for rainwater storage, like there is for thermal insulation.


  • #6
    shane ryan 2013
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5 ✭shane ryan 2013


    Supply and takeaway cost I agree to be correct although here supply here is higher .I would say confidently on the domestic scene that no incentives will be given to normal family homes as it's basically a private company been set up.

    As for this 30000 Ltr allowance they are talking about is nothing more than a smoke screen before the elections.

    There is grants available that schools and community groups can avail of to install rainwater systems and there was a grant available for dairy farmers on this but ended on the 31 St of December 2013

    As for it being economical does depend on a lot of things
    1 do you even have the money to install one

    2 the amount of roof space that you can actually harvest realistically and cost effective

    3 no of people in your home which you will want a tank big enough to allow for number of days without rain. Rule of thumb would be 18

    4 average rainfall according to your exact gps cordinates


    5 relevant trade experience

    6 your health and it's one being overlooked as per usual . Fluoride chlorine and the vast amount of pipe network of different pipe materials from asbestos plastic wooden. Yes there are still wooden hex main pipes still feeding homes .

    The issue on fluoride is still ongoing .its meant to be removed since 2006 which was a direct instruction from Europe ????

    As for chlorine and you might have noticed after having a long hot shower when you come out being a little dizzy .that s not because it was a good hot shower but in fact the chlorine becoming aerated whilst showering.which might remind you about something in the history books

    Personally
    I'm installing a system to feed my entire house although keeping the mains at the kitchen sink but the appropriate filters will be used there to limit the chemicals I'm drinking in my tea or for anyone else who fancy having a cuppa.
    This might be costing me 6.5 k total cost of supply fit and install including vat. But I'm the master of my ship and I'm not going paying them for a shot overpriced service.


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  • #7
    makeorbrake
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,664 ✭✭✭makeorbrake


    shane ryan 2013 wrote: »
    This is not a job for your regular Diy enthusiastic person .its a difficult installation even for professional s.
    You need a world of construction knowledge from drainage plumbing electrical and structural to get from a to b in already finished property's as less invasive as possible .
    Best of luck .check with your insurance company before you start

    Hi Shane. Thanks for your post. I don't have the knowledge to do this - I was hoping to find someone who specialises in this type of install - but no luck. Those that I've contacted seem to install commercial systems - not domestic.

    On top of that, shane 007 & deandean raise valid points i.e. due to the cynical nature of the implementation of all of these types of charges, the structure of the charge is highly likely to change - rendering a domestic rainwater harvesting system uneconomic.

    It's such a shame - and a missed opportunity - as if the government had a genuine interest in creating the basis for the most efficient use of our water resources, then there would be no standing charge EVER (of course, soon enough they will change this - even if they don't in year 1).


    I guess I'll leave it - and watch this space - and see if others install these systems...and if it genuinely ends up making (financial) sense for them.


  • #8
    dixiefly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭dixiefly


    shane ryan 2013 wrote: »
    Supply and takeaway cost I agree to be correct although here supply here is higher .I would say confidently on the domestic scene that no incentives will be given to normal family homes as it's basically a private company been set up.

    As for this 30000 Ltr allowance they are talking about is nothing more than a smoke screen before the elections.

    There is grants available that schools and community groups can avail of to install rainwater systems and there was a grant available for dairy farmers on this but ended on the 31 St of December 2013

    As for it being economical does depend on a lot of things
    1 do you even have the money to install one

    2 the amount of roof space that you can actually harvest realistically and cost effective

    3 no of people in your home which you will want a tank big enough to allow for number of days without rain. Rule of thumb would be 18

    4 average rainfall according to your exact gps cordinates


    5 relevant trade experience

    6 your health and it's one being overlooked as per usual . Fluoride chlorine and the vast amount of pipe network of different pipe materials from asbestos plastic wooden. Yes there are still wooden hex main pipes still feeding homes .

    The issue on fluoride is still ongoing .its meant to be removed since 2006 which was a direct instruction from Europe ????

    As for chlorine and you might have noticed after having a long hot shower when you come out being a little dizzy .that s not because it was a good hot shower but in fact the chlorine becoming aerated whilst showering.which might remind you about something in the history books

    Personally
    I'm installing a system to feed my entire house although keeping the mains at the kitchen sink but the appropriate filters will be used there to limit the chemicals I'm drinking in my tea or for anyone else who fancy having a cuppa.
    This might be costing me 6.5 k total cost of supply fit and install including vat. But I'm the master of my ship and I'm not going paying them for a shot overpriced service.

    Hi Shane, have you done the specification for this yourself? Are you getting contractor to install?

    I am interested in doing a system. a system costing €6.5k will be aprox 15 year payback, though the system itself will need maintenance etc but charges might go up at the same time.

    Generally a 15 year payback is not a great option but we are in a hardc water area and the idea of the salt systems for softening the water never appealed to me anyway.


  • #9
    Top Corner
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 12 ✭Top Corner


    ive a rainwater system installed .been in a month and ive used nearly 10000 ltrs of water . 3 adults in the house . most of this has been mains water from the back up in a box as its been pretty dry so far this month . so by roughly woring out so far its costing me 540 e a year if it was on the mains only . not allowing for those allowances which are a joke anyway


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