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irish attitudes to mental health

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  • 24-11-2014 11:59pm
    #1
    Robsweezie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭


    How far do you think we have come as a society in regards to mental health awareness and acceptance of mental illness as no different to physical problems? are we where we should be? Have we done enough to conquer the stigma?


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    #2
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    When it comes to depression and suicide we've improved vastly in our attitudes and awareness. Still got a lot further to go. For the less common stuff like schizophrenia we've still got a long way to go.


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    #3
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    I find the stigma more in the questioning and expectation that there should be one that we as a society need to overcome. Experiences from my friends seemed to imply that trying to make a point that there should be no shame for them always made them feel more pressured. What's needed is the support and assistance they require is available. The negative attitude you expect wouldn't help if its still as prevelant now, however presenting an overly positive message behind can be too much to handle.


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    #4
    mickstupp
    Registered Users Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭mickstupp


    Most of the people I know are pretty dismissive about other people's mental health. I get the impression that it's the younger people who are much more accepting these days.


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    #5
    WesternZulu
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭WesternZulu


    I hate the term someone is 'suffering with their nerves'...it's just tip-toeing around actually saying depression, as if it's something to be ashamed of.


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    #6
    For Forks Sake
    Registered Users Posts: 11,485 ✭✭✭✭For Forks Sake


    WesternZulu wrote: »
    I hate the term someone is 'suffering with their nerves'.

    Are you posting from sometime in the early 1960s? Haven't heard that used by anyone in years.


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    #7
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    There are some self diagnosed people out there that claim to have issues and use them as a shield for their own behaviour. I know two people that claimed to have depression but never went to a physiatrist for help or even diagnosis. On the other side of things I have a family member that had PND and kept it hidden until they needed intervention.


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    #8
    JuliusCaesar
    Registered Users Posts: 4,882 ✭✭✭JuliusCaesar


    Have you ever tried ringing in sick to work saying you need a mental health day?







    But you've all done it and claimed to have a stomach upset instead. Me too.



    That's how you know there's still stigma.


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    #9
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    There are some self diagnosed people out there that claim to have issues and use them as a shield for their own behaviour. I know two people that claimed to have depression but never went to a physiatrist for help or even diagnosis. On the other side of things I have a family member that had PND and kept it hidden until they needed intervention.

    Sometimes, depression is so blaringly obvious that you don't need anybody to tell you you have it. Similarly, sometimes you don't need help.

    I think the biggest thing that's still lacking is the acceptance of people with mental health issues. I've worked with several autistic people, or schizophrenics and several other mental health disorders (for lack of a better word) and the amount of times I've heard someone say "do you believe what your one said the last day?!" Um, that person has Aspergers so not only is it probably the most honest thing you'll ever hear, you have to give them a little leeway given they don't exact conform to society much (which is one of the thing I love).

    Or the idea that there's something "wrong" with people with mental health issues is still very much alive, as in they're any less capable of doing something. This then starts to seep the people with the issues and they start to believe them... If I had a euro for every time someone told me they can't do something because they have *insert problem here*, I'd be rich... especially those who had absolutely no problem doing it, they were just told they couldn't.


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    #10
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    sup_dude wrote: »
    Sometimes, depression is so blaringly obvious that you don't need anybody to tell you you have it. Similarly, sometimes you don't need help.

    I think the biggest thing that's still lacking is the acceptance of people with mental health issues. I've worked with several autistic people, or schizophrenics and several other mental health disorders (for lack of a better word) and the amount of times I've heard someone say "do you believe what your one said the last day?!" Um, that person has Aspergers so not only is it probably the most honest thing you'll ever hear, you have to give them a little leeway given they don't exact conform to society much (which is one of the thing I love).

    Or the idea that there's something "wrong" with people with mental health issues is still very much alive, as in they're any less capable of doing something. This then starts to seep the people with the issues and they start to believe them... If I had a euro for every time someone told me they can't do something because they have *insert problem here*, I'd be rich... especially those who had absolutely no problem doing it, they were just told they couldn't.

    There is a difference between clinical depression and self diagnosed depression. I had a bad experience with a flatmate that claimed depression. They tried to use it as an excuse for some pretty crappy behaviour.


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    #11
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    There is a difference between clinical depression and self diagnosed depression. I had a bad experience with a flatmate that claimed depression. They tried to use it as an excuse for some pretty crappy behaviour.


    I would imagine they would do that, whether they were officially diagnosed or not.


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    #12
    HalloweenJack
    Registered Users Posts: 7,069 ✭✭✭HalloweenJack


    Can't quote 'cause I'm on the mobile.

    @Potatoeman: How do you know that person wasn't depressed?


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    #13
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    My first knowledge of depression was when I was a kid, I'd hear my mum and her friend say, oh that poor thing suffers with her nerves, in hushed tones, this was the 80's, so my first feeling towards depression was negative. The thing is, my mum would be the first to feel sorry for someone who was suffering with it but the stigma was well and truly there.

    I do believe some people hide behind "depression" and it allows them to go through life not accountable for anything and that sadly gives genuine cases a bad name. One of my good friends has depression and my god do you know she has it, the poor girl is going through pure hell and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

    I think it will take another generation for the stigma to go.


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    #14
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    HalloweenJack wrote: »
    Can't quote 'cause I'm on the mobile.

    @Potatoeman: How do you know that person wasn't depressed?

    Whether they were or not wasnt the issue. They were just not considerate and tried to use depression as an excuse for their behaviour. Even if it was genuine it does not excuse how your actions impact others.


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    #15
    Semele
    Registered Users Posts: 753 ✭✭✭Semele


    NewYork1979 wrote: »
    I do believe some people hide behind "depression" and it allows them to go through life not accountable for anything and that sadly gives genuine cases a bad name. One of my good friends has depression and my god do you know she has it, the poor girl is going through pure hell and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

    I think it will take another generation for the stigma to go.

    I'm not knocking your own experience here, but this type of attitude is part of the reason people don't seek help IMO. Depression looks different for everyone and there's no way of knowing how much someone is suffering in their own head, or behind closed doors. Just because they don't seem as obviously depressed as your friend that doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with them.

    It's that "Sure you're not depressed/What would you have to be depressed about? / I'll show you depression..." oneupmanship that annoys me. I wouldn't want to tell someone about my depression if I felt I had to provide evidence for it or not be believed. I've had that from a friend who I told once and it really hurt me. We're still friends, but I've never once talked to him about how I feel again.


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    #16
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,237 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Have you ever tried ringing in sick to work saying you need a mental health day?







    But you've all done it and claimed to have a stomach upset instead. Me too.



    That's how you know there's still stigma.

    And you're a professional in the field. Not a positive reflection on the attitude generally, if service providers can't be straight up about it.


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    #17
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    Semele wrote: »
    I'm not knocking your own experience here, but this type of attitude is part of the reason people don't seek help IMO. Depression looks different for everyone and there's no way of knowing how much someone is suffering in their own head, or behind closed doors. Just because they don't seem as obviously depressed as your friend that doesn't mean there is nothing wrong with them.

    It's that "Sure you're not depressed/What would you have to be depressed about? / I'll show you depression..." oneupmanship that annoys me. I wouldn't want to tell someone about my depression if I felt I had to provide evidence for it or not be believed. I've had that from a friend who I told once and it really hurt me. We're still friends, but I've never once talked to him about how I feel again.

    My experience is with a girl who I worked alongside. I never had anything but sympathy for her plight nor would I dare guess at what she is going through however it soon became apparent that she wears her depression as a badge, she defines herself as a "depressed person". If she is late, it's because of her depression, if she can't do something, it's because of her depression and I say that as someone who knows it wasn't her depression that kept her late or lazy, I caught her out a few times lying. As I said I really wouldn't take away what she is going through but I don't think it's good to use your depression to not be accountable in life. I gave this girl the benefit of her depression for years and that's the truth, I would have been one of the only ones who did in our workplace so I honestly don't have the attitude you think I have. I just don't think it helps the overall view of depression when someone does what this girl does.


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    #18
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Turtwig wrote: »
    When it comes to depression and suicide we've improved vastly in our attitudes and awareness.

    I'm of the less common opinion that depression is extremely over diagnosed in society. If someone is stressed or feels down, there's doctors throwing drugs at them and telling that they have depression when really they're just feeling sad. It makes a mockery of the actual condition.


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    #19
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    smash wrote: »
    I'm of the less common opinion that depression is extremely over diagnosed in society. If someone is stressed or feels down, there's doctors throwing drugs at them and telling that they have depression when really they're just feeling sad. It makes a mockery of the actual condition.

    I agree completely. I had to stop going to a certain doctor because if he couldn't convince you it was depression, he didn't want to treat you. After going in with sleep problems, he was completely insistent it was depression, despite the fact I used to suffer from it so knew it wasn't. He was actually about to type out a prescription for anti depressants before I went to walk out.


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    #20
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    smash wrote: »
    I'm of the less common opinion that depression is extremely over diagnosed in society. If someone is stressed or feels down, there's doctors throwing drugs at them and telling that they have depression when really they're just feeling sad. It makes a mockery of the actual condition.

    I believe people with mental health issues are over medicated for sure. There are dozens of ways to tackle depression, through diet, meditation, excercise, hormone therapy etc. Psychiatry has a stranglehold on the field however and that means more drugs.

    I disagree strongly that it is over-diagnosed. This country has had and continues to have massive mental health issues in the general populace. It was swept under the carpet for years.

    Get people to own their mental health and help them map their way out of it in the way that suits them is the key.


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    #21
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    NewYork1979 wrote: »
    My experience is with a girl who I worked alongside. I never had anything but sympathy for her plight nor would I dare guess at what she is going through however it soon became apparent that she wears her depression as a badge, she defines herself as a "depressed person". If she is late, it's because of her depression, if she can't do something, it's because of her depression and I say that as someone who knows it wasn't her depression that kept her late or lazy, I caught her out a few times lying. As I said I really wouldn't take away what she is going through but I don't think it's good to use your depression to not be accountable in life. I gave this girl the benefit of her depression for years and that's the truth, I would have been one of the only ones who did in our workplace so I honestly don't have the attitude you think I have. I just don't think it helps the overall view of depression when someone does what this girl does.

    That makes it harder for people to exlain theselves whent they really feel like they cant do something. You would be afraid the person you are telling might have heard it all before from someone else who uses their mental illness as an excuse every time.


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    #22
    TomoBhoy
    Registered Users Posts: 179 ✭✭TomoBhoy


    Yurt! wrote: »
    I believe people with mental health issues are over medicated for sure. There are dozens of ways to tackle depression, through diet, meditation, excercise, hormone therapy etc. Psychiatry has a stranglehold on the field however and that means more drugs.

    I disagree strongly that it is over-diagnosed. This country has had and continues to have massive mental health issues in the general populace. It was swept under the carpet for years.

    Get people to own their mental health and help them map their way out of it in the way that suits them is the key.

    Do you suffer from any mental health problems ?
    Have you ever felt like you've hit a wall and get upset and down and think negative things about yourself, it's like this Ferris wheel in your brain continuing over and over again, I'm on medication if I wasn't on medication I think I'd be a lot more depressed it's not something you snap out of by changing our diet like everything else it's genetics, I do meditation too, but there are days when I get so stressed I feel like driving somewhere with a hose and duck tape and finishing it all off, it's that simple


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    #23
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    TomoBhoy wrote: »
    Do you suffer from any mental health problems ?
    Have you ever felt like you've hit a wall and get upset and down and think negative things about yourself, it's like this Ferris wheel in your brain continuing over and over again, I'm on medication if I wasn't on medication I think I'd be a lot more depressed it's not something you snap out of by changing our diet like everything else it's genetics, I do meditation too, but there are days when I get so stressed I feel like driving somewhere with a hose and duck tape and finishing it all off, it's that simple

    You may need medication, not everyone does though and diet has a very strong effect on it. It's not really anything to do with snapping out of it, it's working your way out of it through various means. You may even reach a point you don't need medication too.


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    #24
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    TomoBhoy wrote: »
    Do you suffer from any mental health problems ?
    Have you ever felt like you've hit a wall and get upset and down and think negative things about yourself, it's like this Ferris wheel in your brain continuing over and over again, I'm on medication if I wasn't on medication I think I'd be a lot more depressed it's not something you snap out of by changing our diet like everything else it's genetics, I do meditation too, but there are days when I get so stressed I feel like driving somewhere with a hose and duck tape and finishing it all off, it's that simple

    That's similar to how my friend feels some days. My heart goes out to you. You sound like you are doing what you can to help yourself. I admire my friend so much, she does her best to keep herself aswell as she can, she stays away from known triggers to bringing her down and she is now doing meditation and yoga.

    I think maybe the point the other poster was making is that a lot of doctors can throw tablets at some people who may not need them which I think we can all agree does go on a bit. To be fair to GP's, they don't have a lot of options when it comes to referring you to the mental health service, mental health services being poorly resourced in this country would be an understatement.


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    #25
    castletownman
    Registered Users Posts: 11,055 ✭✭✭✭castletownman


    I was fortunate to see Christina Perri live in the Olympia last week (fortunate in that she's my favourite singer) and right before the end of the show she dedicated a particular song to anyone within the room that was feeling down in themselves. It was a hug to anyone feeling that way and her way of saying that someone out there loves you, no matter what.

    And I hit a brick wall. I had gone to the concert on my lonesome (not that I really minded that part, have been known to do it regularly) and was surrounded predominatedly by teenage girls as she would tend to cater for that demographic over my own (guy in his mid-twenties). And I found myself in a flood of tears, not necessarily at the beauty of a song (it was lovely) but more so at the message she conveyed before hand that it's okay not to be okay. I had been going through a bit of a bad spell for a few weeks leading up to the concert, in between monotony in work and GAA season ending disappointingly (as pathetic as letting sport affect you sounds) and genuinely got great comfort out of her raising awareness about mental health. Could literally feel my spirits lift there and then.

    So I suppose what I am trying to say is I think there is a growing awareness towards mental health, although maybe it's rare for a public forum such as a concert to promote it. Kudos for Christina Perri for giving a shout out to her friends going through travails. Brilliant touch.


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    #26
    the_monkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,556 ✭✭✭the_monkey


    Robsweezie wrote: »
    How far do you think we have come as a society in regards to mental health awareness and acceptance of mental illness as no different to physical problems? are we where we should be? Have we done enough to conquer the stigma?


    Just count yourself lucky you don't live in Spain - where they will chase you out of the surgery laughing and pointing at you ...


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    #27
    lazeedaisy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭lazeedaisy


    From personal experience, a few people I know dumped me like hot sh1t ignoring the blatantly obvious. They pretended all was ok and never asked because they did not want to know.

    the health service is all about quick fixes, one size fits all & if you don't fit in that tough. All the group talking ensures the one or two love to hear their voices while the rest are afraid to say anything.

    Any decent help is 3 years waiting lists, you are asked every time f you want to stay on it, bully you in to coming off the list.

    There is no support for families or spouses, the attitude was tough, get on with it, step up and take the responsibility.

    It's not a nice thing to admit, but the help is not worth the hassle,

    No follow up, no accountability once the individual leaves hospital.

    Sh1t service & attitudes from people


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    #28
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    TomoBhoy wrote: »
    Do you suffer from any mental health problems ?
    Have you ever felt like you've hit a wall and get upset and down and think negative things about yourself, it's like this Ferris wheel in your brain continuing over and over again, I'm on medication if I wasn't on medication I think I'd be a lot more depressed it's not something you snap out of by changing our diet like everything else it's genetics, I do meditation too, but there are days when I get so stressed I feel like driving somewhere with a hose and duck tape and finishing it all off, it's that simple

    I have had recurring issues with mental health yes. And I identify with the dark thoughts you've outlined above.

    I found that medication is a lottery and psychiatrists are in the business of fiddling with meds and convincing you that the latest super duper combination of drugs are curing your problem and getting you out of their office as quick as they can so they can say the same thing to the next person. Usually they act as a mask for other things. It's not holistic at all and I found attacking the issue from a number of different angles (finding a sport I liked, painting, being open with the right people and talking through things) has improved my mental wellbeing more than any drug. Recently I've been reading into the role hormone imbalances(which can fluctuate wildly throughout your life according to your genetics) have on mental wellbeing and triggers for depression. It's an area that is untouched by psychiatry and makes complete sense.

    Evreyone's road out of the dark fog is different, I hope you find yours.


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    #29
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    lazeedaisy wrote: »

    the health service is all about quick fixes, one size fits all & if you don't fit in that tough. All the group talking ensures the one or two love to hear their voices while the rest are afraid to say anything.

    Bingo, the system isn't really equipped to deal with the large variety of mental health problems that people present with.

    I've recently come to accept that I'll have to battle with and look after my mental health for the rest of my life. Being aware of what I put into my body, being cautious of what situations I put myself in, being careful of what substances I take (psychoactive drugs are a big no no for me).

    The mental health services in this country by in large seek to bandage you up and send you on your way. The problems are particularly acute for people without an understanding suppourt network, these are the people that fall through the cracks for the most part.


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    #30
    Holsten
    Registered Users Posts: 4,971 ✭✭✭Holsten


    Irish attitudes to mental health are abysmal.

    It will take many years before it will be accepted.


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    #31
    NewYork1979
    Registered Users Posts: 129 ✭✭NewYork1979


    I totally agree that a holistic approach is important whether that be in conjunction with drugs or not.

    Knowing situations that will trigger down episodes is very important. It is also very important to do things that make you happy/help your mental well being.

    I speak from experience, I got diagnosed with a chemical imbalance about 8 years ago, I was prescribed an SSRI, this was after years of feeling down and therapy to try and overcome it. Over the years I've learnt to stay away from situations and people that don't add to my day and I do certain things that make me happy. This approach has helped me to finish with SSRI's in the next week or so.

    That's my experience. I don't know if what I have is depression, I was never quite sure of where chemical imbalances fall into in depressions. I don't know if I can stay without SSRI's but I am going to try. I feel well, I never really had anxiety so I'm hoping I now don't get the downers that I used to. I feel incredibly lucky that this is where I am at now.

    The reason I want to come off the drug I'm on is that I absolutely hate it, it is Efexor XL 150mg, I used to be on Cipramil up until two years ago. It numbed me and it really is a scary drug, if you forget it for even a few hours the withdrawals are horrible. The tapering off has not been a party. I know we all make our own choices ultimately but I am annoyed with my GP for putting me on this drug. Her guidance on coming down off of it could have really harmed me as there is no fast way of coming off Efexor, she wanted me down from 150mg to nothing in 8 days. I decided to do it my way and I've managed to get through life by doing so. Who knows, I may need an SSRI again but it sure as hell won't be Efexor.


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