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irish attitudes to mental health

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    #32
    humbert
    Registered Users Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭humbert


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Have you ever tried ringing in sick to work saying you need a mental health day?







    But you've all done it and claimed to have a stomach upset instead. Me too.



    That's how you know there's still stigma.
    Help me with this. I understand a stomach bug. It can last a day and be completely debilitating and then be gone 24 hours later. What's the mental health equivalent to that?


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    #33
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    In my work, I have to cover my arms/wear long sleeves.

    I have scars from being a self-harmer. I'm clean now...but it's not accepted.
    In the UK, it's a bit easier, in that, if your doctor signs you off as "clean", you're not watch and questioned constantly, it's accepted that you were ill, and are of sound mind now. Scars or no scars.
    Here, it's not like that, and it won't be for awhile.

    Now some employers are great, but they're still wary of you..like you're going to bring a knife to work and stab everyone one day.
    .....................................:/

    The stigma is fading, but it will take time, alot of time.

    And older people aren't changing. My grandmother when a 50year old had commited suicide, said "ah now, she was half way through her life, would she not have the cop on to continue it"....... ..I had no words. (sad part is, she worked in a mental hospital until she got married and had to quit.)


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    #34
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    looking_around wrote: »
    In my work, I have to cover my arms/wear long sleeves.

    I have scars from being a self-harmer. I'm clean now...but it's not accepted.
    In the UK, it's a bit easier, in that, if your doctor signs you off as "clean", you're not watch and questioned constantly, it's accepted that you were ill, and are of sound mind now. Scars or no scars.
    Here, it's not like that, and it won't be for awhile.

    Now some employers are great, but they're still wary of you..like you're going to bring a knife to work and stab everyone one day.
    .....................................:/

    The stigma is fading, but it will take time, alot of time.

    And older people aren't changing. My grandmother when a 50year old had commited suicide, said "ah now, she was half way through her life, would she not have the cop on to continue it"....... ..I had no words. (sad part is, she worked in a mental hospital until she got married and had to quit.)


    I think it depends on what kind of G.P you have in the U.K. Some G.Ps in the U.K will see parents with mental illness as posing a higher risk for neglect or abuse.


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    #35
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    humbert wrote:
    Help me with this. I understand a stomach bug. It can last a day and be completely debilitating and then be gone 24 hours later. What's the mental health equivalent to that?


    I don't suffer depression, but I am on meds for pretty bad anxiety (I also meditate, and play sport to help with things and I'm hoping to be off the meds within the next year) but some days getting out of bed is huge. Yesterday for example, from the moment I opened my eyes I was overwhelmed. It's hard to fully describe the feeling. I could have used a "mental health day" but I had no physical symptoms and I felt like I couldnt ring my boss and tell the truth.

    I had to take sick leave for this last year for 4 weeks but I really struggled with it, for some reason even I didnt feel justified in taking the time off even with my gp counsellor, family and friends telling me I needed it. If I had had a broken leg or stomach flu I wouldnt have thought twice. Its because my symptoms werent physical i felt it couldnt be justified. I seem to have digressed but I guess if mental health issues were more widely accepted I wouldnt have questioned it at all


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    #36
    looking_around
    Registered Users Posts: 2,491 ✭✭✭looking_around


    FullblownRose wrote: »
    I think it depends on what kind of G.P you have in the U.K. Some G.Ps in the U.K will see parents with mental illness as posing a higher risk for neglect or abuse.

    I suppose, point was, if they clear you, the work place doesn't question it.

    Here they do.


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    #37
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    I think Ireland has started to accept depression and suicidal ideation as a real problem.

    Other things, like ptsd, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia - nope. Massive stigma, in my own experience.

    I have bipolar and anxiety. I had PTSD for a number of years.

    To this day, I can't tell my family or friends that I have bipolar and anxiety, because they think people with them are 'psycho.' they assume I have depression, and because of the stuff they've said about other mental illnesses, I let them think I'm depressed.

    My mam and my boyfriend know about the true state of my mental health, and are very supportive. My boyfriend has never experienced mental health difficulties, but supports me because he loves me. My mam has been severely depressed, and even hospitalised after suicide attempts when I was a child, so she understands completely and is proud of me.

    I'm lucky, though. I overcame the PTSD after a lot of meds and therapy. My bipolar is under control, and I'm off of the medication I was on for it. I'm only on one medication, an antidepressant. It helps with anxiety, because I can't take benzos. I seriously dread to think what it's like to deal with people who don't understand mental illness, while NOT being stabilised. I don't know how any unstable person could cope with the stigma.


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    #38
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Jingle_Balls wrote: »
    I think Ireland has started to accept depression and suicidal ideation as a real problem.

    Other things, like ptsd, anxiety, bipolar, schizophrenia - nope. Massive stigma, in my own experience.

    Big time. Any of the above mental health issues are mentioned if you're male they think the person is one step from going Hannibal Lector or Ted Bundy and if you're a female you're a crazy cat lady.

    The vast vast majority of people with the above issues are not dangerous to anyone.


    Mass media characterizations don't help. In fairness society is learning, albeit slowly.


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    #39
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Big time. Any of the above mental health issues are mentioned if you're male they think the person is one step from going Hannibal Lector or Ted Bundy and if you're a female you're a crazy cat lady.

    The vast vast majority of people with the above issues are not dangerous to anyone.


    Mass media characterizations don't help. In fairness society is learning, albeit slowly.

    I remember gently broaching the topic of ptsd with an ex, when i was trying to tell him about my mental health.

    Lovely things he said included -

    'sure only soldiers get ptsd, that's why it's called shell shock.'

    'why are you anxious? You have nothing to worry about.'

    'isn't bipolar the same as manic depression? So you get mental mood swings and get all manic and dangerous and stuff!'

    'how come you don't seem crazy?'

    Feckin' eejit. It's as though anything other than depression automatically = completely out of control and a danger to society.

    It doesn't. My boyfriend knows I get anxious. He reassures me, and reminds me to think more rationally. With regards to the bipolar, he's told me many times that I'm incredibly grounded and level-headed, so he's proud I control it so well. My mam thinks similarly. I consider myself very lucky to have two understanding people in my life :)


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    #40
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    For Forks Sake wrote: »
    Are you posting from sometime in the early 1960s? Haven't heard that used by anyone in years.

    Common enough phrase where I come from, probably used more in country areas and by the older generations.


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    #41
    --LOS--
    Registered Users Posts: 11,028 ✭✭✭✭--LOS--


    You know I was thinking about this recently and I honestly think Ireland has made leaps in this department, there's so much more awareness and you can see that on here. I think they could learn a thing or two over here. I had a bizarre encounter with an admin at the university. I had some registration issues to sort out because I was late registering this year because I had a lot going on. I explain the situation in person to admin and I'm told that she won't do anything, that there's a system of appeal in place for late registration but that's only for very serious things like if someone's mother died...........

    So I had to explain to this **** that I don't see how an illness that has the potential to be life threatening is not serious enough.

    Way to go at keeping the stigma of shame alive, honestly you try to be strong and these people make it so hard.

    Other times I've sought advice from advisors at the uni and been told why don't you just get a job. This is after explaining everything so she just immediately assumed I couldn't be too unwell to cope with the workload and that it was just about the work and I should just give up and get a job. Christ I just wanted to see what my options were with regards flexibility, something that is harder to manage in a job.

    The same woman every time I spoke to her, I walk in and straight away she never asks me how I've been doing but instead tells me I look good and I seem good and I'm doing much better now. She has said things like.... oh. From what (lecturers name) was saying she was making it sound like you were really bad. But you're much better now? And I have to say no I was and I still am. And she keeps insisting but I look good and that's great and everything's great. I mean I never thought I'd have to explain that it's a mental illness and that it's about how I feel not how I look. It can take a physical toll as well but I find you mention that and people like to separate that problem and dismiss the important one, so they fail to see what the big problem is.

    I had a friend with a similar misconception, after kind of dragging it out of me, I give him the benefit of a doubt and tell him, he straight away insists I look healthy so I couldn't be depressed. Unfortunately I told him too much and he judged every single thing and blamed me, said what have I got to worry about when there's so many people out there dying of cancer etc among many other crazy remarks including it was my fault an ex was abusive. I'm lucky that I'm aware at this point that he is saying all the things you should not say to someone with depression (same as how you can recognise the ignorance of some of the comments on this thread) and I do my best to explain it to him and I tell him that I'm strong enough now to handle what you're saying but other times I wouldn't be and please never say that to anyone else with depression. I explained to him that the things he was saying could be enough to send someone over the edge that was in the middle of that really dark place. Then he joked that he would be a great therapist because he would be no bull****, people would either get better or just kill themselves already.

    So ye it's a little difficult to shake the shame when those are the kinds of things you're expecting a depressed person to be able to cope with hearing. So now I just (try to) look after myself, there are people that do need to know, you owe it to yourself to at least tell professionals but I have to be wary about what I share with other people or at the wrong time in order to look after myself too.


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Have you ever tried ringing in sick to work saying you need a mental health day?







    But you've all done it and claimed to have a stomach upset instead. Me too.



    That's how you know there's still stigma.


    I'm sorry I'm just too busy being depressed :D Sometimes I would love to say that


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    #42
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Jingle_Balls wrote: »
    I think Ireland has started to accept depression and suicidal ideation as a real problem.
    --LOS-- wrote: »
    You know I was thinking about this recently and I honestly think Ireland has made leaps in this department, there's so much more awareness and you can see that on here

    I've a controversial opinion that relates specifically to suicide.
    Its possible that an increased openness and reduction of the stigma around suicide has actually had a negative impact.

    If you look at the rate it can be seen that the increase to Irelands tragically high rate correlates broadly to an increased openness around the subject.

    There's a good body of evidence around the idea of suicide clustering where an increased personal awareness of suicide significantly increases the risk of suicide, its not a massive leap to consider that this perhaps this operates at a broader scale.

    I'm sure more accurate recording of cause of death may partially explain the increase I'm not sure if it explains all the increase particularly if one looks at the statistics and sees that it not a steady increase in rate or one period of a sudden jump.

    Please keep in mind I'm not arguing for a re-stigmatization of mental health in Ireland, and unfortunately like probably any person (particularly males) of my age in Ireland I understand the trauma it causes and what an important issue it is, I just feel that perhaps this phenomenon needs to be examined in more detail before we assume that increased openness is always a good thing.


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    #43
    Laura Palmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 249 ✭✭Laura Palmer


    NewYork1979 wrote: »
    The reason I want to come off the drug I'm on is that I absolutely hate it, it is Efexor XL 150mg, I used to be on Cipramil up until two years ago. It numbed me and it really is a scary drug, if you forget it for even a few hours the withdrawals are horrible. The tapering off has not been a party. I know we all make our own choices ultimately but I am annoyed with my GP for putting me on this drug. Her guidance on coming down off of it could have really harmed me as there is no fast way of coming off Efexor, she wanted me down from 150mg to nothing in 8 days. I decided to do it my way and I've managed to get through life by doing so. Who knows, I may need an SSRI again but it sure as hell won't be Efexor.
    Not the only time I've heard awful things about Efexor.
    Although I guess factors like the individual and the dosage need to be taken into consideration too, but I have heard more bad things about Efexor than any other meds.


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    #44
    dd972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭dd972


    It's funny how a corrupt neo liberal s**thole run by gombeens and formerly run by paedo priests is in constant denial about suicide and mental health issues.

    Another factor is the stereotype caricature that Irish males constantly feel they have to live up to or at least be keenly aware of even if they don't live up to it. Basically any Irish male who might be too studious, bookish, quiet, isn't downing 12 pints on a Friday night and doesn't seemingly possess loud vocal chords or a 'thick skin' is homophobically insulted, even when the overwhelming majority of such people are straight.


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    #45
    Turtwig
    Registered Users Posts: 26,578 ✭✭✭✭Turtwig


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    I've a controversial opinion that relates specifically to suicide.
    Its possible that an increased openness and reduction of the stigma around suicide has actually had a negative impact.

    If you look at the rate it can be seen that the increase to Irelands tragically high rate correlates broadly to an increased openness around the subject.

    I'd agree. The other factor in the increases also related to reducing the stigma that your post sort of touched on is the recording of suicides. Back in the past there was heavy incentive to try disguise causes of death that were suicides as accidental or unknowns. Now the stigma is lifting the deaths are being more accurately recorded. But still underestimated. The science has improved greatly too.


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    #46
    Littlekittylou
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,357 ✭✭✭Littlekittylou


    I don't think there is little understanding or genuine knowledge there might be compassion but it's not awareness.

    Too many lay people think they know what they are talking about. They should leave it to the professionals to deal with and help people. They can be doing more damage than they know.


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    #47
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    --LOS-- wrote: »
    You know I was thinking about this recently and I honestly think Ireland has made leaps in this department, there's so much more awareness and you can see that on here. I think they could learn a thing or two over here. I had a bizarre encounter with an admin at the university. I had some registration issues to sort out because I was late registering this year because I had a lot going on. I explain the situation in person to admin and I'm told that she won't do anything, that there's a system of appeal in place for late registration but that's only for very serious things like if someone's mother died...........

    So I had to explain to this **** that I don't see how an illness that has the potential to be life threatening is not serious enough.

    I'm sorry I'm just too busy being depressed :D Sometimes I would love to say that

    Isnt that normal for colleges though? If spaces are limited and you dont register in time you need a pretty good reason. If you cant manage something like registering on time how would you manage a course.


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    #48
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Isnt that normal for colleges though? If spaces are limited and you dont register in time you need a pretty good reason. If you cant manage something like registering on time how would you manage a course.

    Mental illness IS a good reason.


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    #49
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Jingle_Balls wrote: »
    Mental illness IS a good reason.

    Im mean if you cant make a registration deadline how are you going to meet course deadlines?


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    #50
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Im mean if you cant make a registration deadline how are you going to meet course deadlines?

    If you can't make registration because you go into anaphylaxis because of an allergy, how can you be trusted to go to college?


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    #51
    Potatoeman
    Registered Users Posts: 4,241 ✭✭✭Potatoeman


    Jingle_Balls wrote: »
    If you can't make registration because you go into anaphylaxis because of an allergy, how can you be trusted to go to college?

    I imagine you would have a doctors note and be very carefull around food in future. I think the issue with depression is that it can be used as an excuse and is dependant on the person being honest.


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    #52
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dd972 wrote: »
    It's funny how a corrupt neo liberal s**thole run by gombeens and formerly run by paedo priests.

    I hope you have moved abroad never to return as you certainly wont help anyone spewing bile like above.


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    #53
    Penny Tration
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,687 ✭✭✭✭Penny Tration


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    I imagine you would have a doctors note and be very carefull around food in future. I think the issue with depression is that it can be used as an excuse and is dependant on the person being honest.

    You can also get a doctor's note for mental health issues... I've done it


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    #54
    0byme75341jo28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,571 ✭✭✭0byme75341jo28


    Potatoeman wrote: »
    Im mean if you cant make a registration deadline how are you going to meet course deadlines?

    I'm fairly sure you can get extended/flexible deadlines in college if you're suffering from a mental illness that would make it difficult for you to finish assignments on time.


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    #55
    Triceratops Ballet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,894 ✭✭✭Triceratops Ballet


    Dax Zealous Percussionist wrote: »
    I'm fairly sure you can get extended/flexible deadlines in college if you're suffering from a mental illness that would make it difficult for you to finish assignments on time.

    You can, my sister suffers with depression and had an extended deadline for all assignments including her thesis


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    #56
    FullblownRose
    Registered Users Posts: 1,501 ✭✭✭FullblownRose


    looking_around wrote: »
    I suppose, point was, if they clear you, the work place doesn't question it.

    Here they do.

    Ah, I see. There are still exceptions.


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    #57
    Tarzana2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,553 ✭✭✭Tarzana2


    Kamryn Petite Smokehouse wrote: »
    Common enough phrase where I come from, probably used more in country areas and by the older generations.

    Only used by people 70+ where I'm from. Basically an awful "euphemism". Anyone under 70 who uses it would want to cop themselves on.


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    #58
    LoganRice
    Registered Users Posts: 424 ✭✭LoganRice


    they are good :D

    ...


    ..


    .

    At least amongst my friends


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    #59
    YFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 9,717 ✭✭✭YFlyer


    JuliusCaesar wrote: »
    Have you ever tried ringing in sick to work saying you need a mental health day?

    Have you used any stress management techniques such as media of yoga?


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    #60
    Connemara Farmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,975 ✭✭✭Connemara Farmer


    Robsweezie wrote: »
    How far do you think we have come as a society in regards to mental health awareness and acceptance of mental illness as no different to physical problems? are we where we should be? Have we done enough to conquer the stigma?

    Funny I just had a conversation with a fairly smart guy about mental illness in the past few days. We discussed a particular situation and he agreed fully with the course of action taken. Which was determined entirely by stigma!

    So I would say we haven't come nearly as far as we think we have, once the chips are down.


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